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News and discussion regarding JW.org, Watchtower, IBSA including current events and historical items of interest


  1. What's new in this club
  2. I didn't know God had made you His spokesperson. You suddenly know what is ok in God's eyes ? Perhaps you should be running the Org then because your GB seem to demand more from people
  3. So the Watchtower/GB/JW Org will always be wrong by basing everything on 1914. And again they will be wrong because their agenda is to gain and keep power for themselves and their big businesses and real estate. Even Bro Rando seems to have an agenda about predicting a new date for the Judgement Time. Most JWs want the 'end to come' because they think they are 'safe' inside the Org. That alone is an agenda. But then we probably ALL have personal agendas.
  4. As long as most of your imperfect thoughts are in line with the bible, in Jehovahs eyes that is OK! Other agendas in his eyes is a no-no.
  5. Women are imperfect and act on imperfect hormones. God has regret..... but this is not as strong as repentance, remorse and the other emotions inbetween. God does not make mistakes. Regret indicates that human actions made God change his mind as to their future....... One can read your own emotions into the bible if it suits one. No doubt, God was very disappointed and all mankind justly deserved destruction. Because God is a God of life it was really regretful to have to do what justice required. ... to destroy.
  6. Some things are straightforward, but other things are a matter of interpretation. The thing that gets me is when someone acts like they have it all figured out. Nope.
  7. . . How something is worded often contains subtle nuances and references, and sub-references that escape almost everyone, except those whose thinking is not agenda driven. The problem is .... almost EVERYONES' thinking is agenda driven. Without getting into George Carlin's famous comment about sticking a needle in your finger, consider the very real difference between these two phrases, being "waiting to engage", and being "engaged to wait". If you work for someone, and are on call 24/7/365. make sure that the phraseology is "engaged to wait", and not "waiting to engage". It makes a difference as to whether or not you are due payment for your services. In similar fashion, the nuances inherent in the way Scripture is phrased make a very real difference. However, if your perception is agenda driven, you will always be wrong. If you think you are a hammer ..... EVERYTHING looks like a nail. ..... and your theology and carpentry work will be crude, ugly, and unworkable.
  8. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” According to this report in Genesis, situation described speaks differently. After, in NT, we see other sort of feelings and emotions for human. Do not forget how female was created in the image of God. So yes, perhaps it is not far away from your observation that sometimes God (has right to) react as "overemotional female" and Genesis 6:6,7 is exactly what was happened . :)) If He want to destroy fallen angels who materialized and their offspring of giants who made evil things, what was so difficult for Him to be selective in punishment? JW people have expectation how that will happen in Armageddon - selective destruction. And Noah Days are used as example of why and how God will act in Armageddon, but without water (flood). Initial rebellion started with "snake" aka devil. Continue with First People. At what stage were the other angels while this was happening, there is no record of it. It is not until Noah's day that angels who longed for earthly pleasures are described. Their action does not say that they rebelled against God in the way that the devil did. Their motives were different. They did not say that God was lying, as the serpent said. They did not promise anyone that they would be like gods. They didn't say how people will not dye if act independently from God. Their rebellion had different reasons. Perhaps what they saw happening in Eden and how satan goes unpunished for his insolence was an additional motive for them to indulge in illicit behavior as well. In fact, when the Bible says that evil multiplies because transgressors are not punished immediately, and that they therefore continue to do evil, then there is a great responsibility on God Himself who failed to punish the guilty who can be punished by none other than Him. For, it was not just about human hearts boiling to do evil, but about the hearts of angels. When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong - Eccl 8
  9. Tinkering with the transistors that became the internet has been the source of much income for Al Gore and myself.
  10. I understand that. Also knowing God existed is also not the point. If Satan imagined Jehovah himself was the product of the realm in which he was able to view him, like me being in a room or in a world with defined boundaries and I see someone and imagine that they didn't create the realm that we both reside in, but in point of fact simply was the first on the scene, then you'd be getting the point the author is getting at.
  11. Satan can promote the idea pf evolution without believing it himself. it is called propaganda. He knew god existed but was rebellious and did not obey the creator
  12. God was grieved because he does not want any to die.... But he is logical and knows and allows for personal choice. There is a few times he was grieved but he always did the righteous thing. You read to much in it - to call it a "state". ... it seems like you compare god to an overemotional female. The angels are a different life form - but still Jehovah created them. There IS a universal issue playing out because the wicked angels were also proved to be wrong when Jesus died. That is why jesus went to show them that he had been resurrected! Jesus came from 'heaven' and showed integrity till death as a human - taking a life form lower than the angels. This means that his loyalty to Jehovah condemned all perfect (heavenly and earthly creatures) who deliberately sinned and saved those imperfect humans who put faith in the ransom sacrifice.
  13. A long time ago I did. Jehovah is not overcome by anything wicked and cannot do evil - but it does not mean that he did not foresee the possibility that Adam could sin. He knows all. The whole world is wicked right now and the thoughts of people are wicked all the time just like before the flood - but Jehovah has the capacity to look to the greater issues and tolerate this and yet he knows about all of it. It does not affect his perfection or his justice
  14. I’ll give PSomH an upvote for this. He doesn’t get that many from me.
  15. Humans know different types of 'love' but I don't think humans understand love from God's perspective. God's ways are far higher than human ways. And this also, we can only see from a human perspective. Arauna replied to me once that 'humans are important', but I think not in comparison to the Universal issue. It would seem that millions of humans will die at the Judgement time, and it will be a necessary 'operation'. A bit like clearing a building site before building a nice new house. Many humans cannot handle thinking about it, they see it as hateful / cruel.. And in reality I think many JWs try not to think about it. But, God will do what God will do to solve the Universal issue.
  16. I was. I did. He wasn’t. You’re wrong. It’s his heart that it never came up into, his center of motivation. It is the furthest thing from what he would ever do. It’s not that he can’t imagine it. There is division among translators over this verse. Someone want to spend some time looking into this? I’ll take the NWT any day in this case. It dovetails far better with everything else we know of God.
      Hello guest!
    7%3A31 One translation best captures the “mind” sense with, “I never entertained the thought,” which is not the same as being “surprised.”
  17. Yes, but it's the Watchtower / GB / JW org that complicate matters. By adding traditions of men and man made rules those men put stumbling blocks in the way of Accepting Jesus as the Christ.
  18. JHVH was surprised in several situations. In Eden, after Adam and Eve disappointed Him so much. After, Genesis said: And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. A person who knows what to expect from others would not be in such a difficult emotional state, so that like God, he begins to destroy everything he has created, nature, animals and people. WTJWorg try to explain all God's actions with "love". If he destroy wicked people that is because of love. If he not want to destroy wicked people that is because of love, again. If he allow injustice and suffer, that is because of love. If he destroy devil that is because because of love and because of "universal issue". Well, it seems how "universal issue" is also responsible for God's passivity in time before Eden and in Eden. Because, devil rebellion not started in Eden, for sure. According to the WTJWorg interpretation, nowhere in the universe is there life except on Earth and around a God surrounded by angels. Thus, life is concentrated, according to GB, in only two "locations". This very knowledge limits the very thesis of the "universal issue," and gives the possibility that God did not have such a great need to delay the punishment of transgressors of his law. After all, he punished Adam and Eve with death. What prevented him from treating the rebellious angels in the same way? A different law? A different attitude towards angels compared to people? Are angels just as intellectually limited as humans, so that God should have given them time to prove that the devil was wrong? They see God every day, so they don’t need faith like people do, to believe in an invisible God and what happened in history. People is expected to believe in events that happened before their lives or even in their life time. How to understand the absurd fact that God "implanted" in animals the "fear of man" (generally speaking), but no mosquito is afraid of any man, but persistently wants to drink his blood? Likewise, it is difficult to understand that there is a need for imperfect humans and perfect angels to contribute to the "universal issue", the answer to which has long been known to God. For, every human being does not have the ability to experientially observe the past to which he has not witnessed. And therefore he does not know who said and did what and why. So, he cannot give an answer for another, but only for himself. We cannot answer the question of whether God has the right to rule or not. We only give our "verbal" consent to the authority of one or the other. And that, too, is only of symbolic significance, because our consent to the opposite side will not cause God to cease to rule. Well, it is not democracy and the election of a new president for the next term. If all people agreed to be on the devil’s side, do you really think God would give up his position? And the question/issue of "love"? It is something that has nothing to do with the "universal issue".
  19. W/regard to Jehovah's foreknowledge I've always thought of it this way: There's only so much stuff in the universe and only so many ways these can be configured over time factoring in the operation of free will. Before Jehovah created even Jesus as the Word he examined all the possible scenarios and that no matter which path was taken it would all end up being "very good" at the end.
  20. I'm not sure that's true. There's a thomist who's essentially arguing exactly this - that God continuously sustains everything. The argument is that like you can't have an infinite regress in the physical realm w/universes (no matter how many) and you can't have an infinite regress at any given point in the here and now, so God's spirit is the sustaining point for all reality. You can think of it the same way you think about the universe - no infinite regress longitudinally , but in the here and now flipped it's also true vertically.
  21. The book isn't pushing the "religions evolved" idea. It's pushing the idea that false religion has from the beginning fostered the idea of evolution because it's originator also believed the same (or at least wanted these to believe it). The demons, BTW aren't the same thing as the sons of god, at least not according to 2nd temple thought. It was thought that the demons were disembodied dead nephilim. I suppose not being fully human might have made it different for them as opposed to normal humans. Maybe they had phantom-body pain (like a vet who has phantom limb pain) and that was why they kept trying to get inside people or anything physical like pigs.
  22. Jehovah is working until now......... But he was resting from his creation.... so what was he working on? All physical matter is energy...... whose energy? ... or where did it come from? If you do not understand this then you do not understand basic science. While much of it is self-sustaining it depends upon Jehovah's energy to exist - to be there. Immortality means that they receive their own source of life. Nothing else is immortal - all depends upon jehovah to live. The earth is a living entity with so many forms of life which are sustained by jehovah!
  23. I was speaking of all JW videos. It has the copyright symbol next to it which is the sign that it belongs to a company or intellectual ownership. It is intellectual theft to take someone else's work and modify it.
  24. I think you are wrong about that Arauna, given the facts presented here, so far. Does the Society have a copyright right on the clearly amateur generic software work presented by BoRando? I think not! ( .... perhaps the dialog was a direct cut and paste from the Society to his script?) BroRando said that YouTube took it down, implying NOT of his own initiative. Did they bully YouTube into taking it down, or did they have a legitimate right to make that demand?
  25. That statement contradicts what the Scripture actually says, with agenda driven wishful thinking.

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