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  2. Some good points there Srecko. It was obviously God who decided when it was ok to kill, based on laws that superseded the command not to kill. The question then is, when it comes to shunning, who decides when it's ok to shun and when it is not ok? Or is there something that supersedes the command to shun? First I want to address this comment you made: I understand the parallels you are trying to draw. There are many examples in history of family members disowning other family members, cutting them off as if the other person no longer exists. In these instances it is humans that make their own personal law. Sometimes it's based on understandable reasons, (extreme evilness on the part of the one who is being disowned) and sometimes on purely frivolous grounds (used as blackmail). Of course there are many many different reasons, too many to mention. I suppose this sounds reasonable. Usually when this situation occurs, the person is not in a disfellowshipped state. I have often thought about this problematic and I have still not found satisfactory justification for some of these actions. I can understand that a person guilty of breaking the Bible's commands and not repenting, or changing, should not be a part of the congregation. The congregation must be kept clean, otherwise Jesus "could vomit it out of his mouth". (Rev 3:16) He says "All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent" (Rev 3:19). And "‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first. If you do not, I will come to you, and I will remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent". (Rev 2:5) and “‘Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam...... So repent. If you do not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will war against them with the long sword of my mouth" I think just those few scriptures in Revelation show clearly Jesus' feelings about keeping the congregation morally and spiritually clean. We also have Paul's counsel. However, we know that those who have not repented are not thrown out of the congregation literally, but symbolically. They can still attend the meetings if they want. But they cannot participate and speak to anyone. Why? Because they have been disfellowshipped. So in this sense they have been "removed" BUT by being able to still go to meetings they are able to receive Jehovah's instructions and come to repentance, and then be welcomed back. Now imagine if this person had literally been thrown out, and was not allowed to put foot inside the KH. How would they be able to "repent and come back"? How would that work in practice? So in this sense, disfellowshipping is a merciful and loving provision, because the person is still able to receive spiritual instruction. But if they weren't disfellowshipped, and everyone would speak with them, then there would be no difference at all would there? Now the questions I ask is, it makes sense for the congregation, but how is it outside the congregation? This is where I find the difficulty. There are several things to consider. One is; are we Christians only inside the congregation, or are we Christians 24/7? Obviously we are Christians all of the time. So we could argue that whatever applies inside the congregation should also apply outside of it. Then there is the family. Frequently there is a misunderstanding in what family means. The broad definition is "a group of people who share common ancestors" a more usual definition is "group of people that may be made up of partners, children, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents" then the classic definition, and the ones JW mean when they say family is; "a group consisting of parents and children living together in a household" It's also called the nuclear family. We know that members of a household or nuclear family are not shunned. Only those living outside the household. I am ok with that, but I think that associating with family living outside the household should be left up to conscience, (your first conclusion). That is just my opinion. So is there something that supersedes the command to shun? (this is for anyone to answer, not just Srecko) The basics are in the Bible, for anyone to see
  3. Today
  4. The great thing about that, being Jesus, he did not have to use a 2x4" timber upside the mule's head to get him to talk!
  5. ...... some days you pick the strawberries ...... ...... some days the strawberries pick you ....
  6. there really shouldn't be, especially if you read the whole sentence I wrote. Here, I'll save you the time from searching for it: I find jw's foolish because they follow the ideas of men, which changes to suit those in the power tower. lol, we......lol
  7. In my “practical wisdom” mode, not my “world is going to hell in a handbasket” mode, I start my door-to-door presentation with an invitation to consider a practical verse like Matthew 6:25. “Anxiety is a huge concern today. We read about it. We experience it. I want to read you a scripture on that theme, you tell me what you think, and I am out of here. Good idea?” You can throw in a factoid or two from somewhere, like something here from the New York Times, but I usually pass. You are looking for people with whom the idea resonates, and if it doesn’t, the New York Times will not convince them that it should. An affirmative answer to my offer will earn the householder the reading of Matthew 6:25. “On this account I [Jesus] say to you: Stop being anxious about your lives as to what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your bodies as to what you will wear. Does not life mean more than food and the body than clothing?” “That’s all I wanted to do,” I will say, “to get this notion on the table—that anxiety is something that you might hope to just “stop it.” He doesn’t say, don’t start being anxious. He assumes his listeners already are. He says ‘Stop it.’ The next move is the householder’s, and I tell him that he doesn’t have to make one. “If the subject piques interest, if you have views if you.....” and so forth. If he doesn’t (and even if he does), I will leave a tract—any of them will do—and call attention to the jw.org website and what is to be found there. If they do, then conversation might go a hundred different ways. Even so, I do not press every moment to stay. Rather, I offer every moment to leave. Even some lengthy conversations I have cut them sort, to the householder’s protest. “Yes, you say it now,” I observe, “but after I go you will say, “Man! I wanted to get some stuff done today, and then this Bible guy showed up!” Maybe I have grown sensitive to all the concerns of those who cry over “manipulation,” and so I am determined to not even give the appearance of going there. Of course, the extremists among these ones are babies to whom introducing any idea not mainstream is “manipulation,”—they decry all “brainwashing” except for the brainwashing that is theirs—and there is not much one can do about that, but I try not to attract the charge like a magnet. I can hear Anthony Morris giving the talk now at the 2016 Regional Convention in Atlanta. I wasn’t there—I was at another convention—but the talk was streamed. “‘Stop it!’ Jesus says. Just ‘stop it!’ as though addressing a child—and that was the idea that he went on to develop, that it was a controllable emotion. It was a meaningful talk for me. Anxiety had proven to be a weakness for me —it afflicts some in the family—and when I was hit with a perfect storm of calamities, I did not blame humans like JTR does. I did worse and blamed God. Believe me, I envy those brothers—I have met a lot of them—who say: “I’ve never worried a day in my life!” To be sure, that envy is tempered by the fact that some of these characters caused plenty of others to worry, and even when it was not so, they had other weaknesses to compensate or even more than compensate. We are all “pieces of work” in one way or another. I also know quite a few who, by choice, live very close to the wire. They have structured their lives that way. It is deliberate. They have determined to “make use of the world, but not use it to the full.” (1 Corinthians 7:31) They have decided to go light as to material things. The ideal among Jehovah’s Witnesses—which some have attained and some have not—is to acquire a skill that pays well, and then do as little of it as possible so as to have as large a share as possible in the kingdom proclamation work. I am not one of those people, either, but I sort of envy them, as the modern manifestation of Paul, who knew “how to be low on provisions and how to have an abundance. In everything and in all circumstances I have learned the secret of both how to be full and how to hunger, both how to have an abundance and how to do without.” - Philippians 4:12 These ones will crinkle a fender on their car and ask God what to do about it, since there’s no money in the budget for the mishap. What is God going to do about it? Time and again persons I know well have reported such things—they take it to God in prayer—and presently the answer presents itself in totally unanticipated ways, sometimes very unlikely ones. They thereafter attribute it to God’s spirit. Am I going to tell them that they are wrong? Why would I do that? How do I know? It is more likely—when you hear such things again and again—that they are right. I do what Mary did, with regard to different experiences: “Mary began to preserve all these sayings, drawing conclusions in her heart.” (Luke 2:19) Maybe they’ll do me some good someday, the same way they did her. Key is the confidence of 1 John 5:14: “And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us.” For it to work it must be “according to his will.” It seems that it will be very hard to dictate to someone else just how holy spirit is supposed to work. Almost by definition, you cannot. It is the wind of John 3:8 that you feel but cannot see. It is the angels that the cosmonauts did not see—and so concluded from that experience that there was no God. No, it operates as it operates and is one of those “taste and see” sort of things.
  8. I think I didn’t miss a thing. You are either doing something unmentionable or you are making your escape—and not a moment too soon. Besides, I just made that line up myself. If it turns out that movie plagiarized it, they’ve got a major lawsuit on their hands.
  9. ..... is this one more of points on a list of "clarifications" about "The Truth" :))
  10. You make a quote from the movie "Cool Hand Luke", and missed "Shakin' the bushes boss"? Reminds me of a cow, which you can hunt with a hammer.
  11. All Jehovah's Witnesses are equal. ... but some are more equal than others. They get the secret books.
  12. TWyla, you are a gem. Thanks for all your hard work, my friend and sister. MAy Jehovah continue to bless you.
  13. Not necessarily. As a "good" elder's wife, I didn't know it existed since I never looked into his briefcase; and as a "good" elder, he never told me it existed. Now, now. Tell the truth and shame the devil. Would you have been shocked to discover that, at a weekend school on how to be a good shepherd, he was released a textbook? Say in his secular work he is a manager at WalMart. Would you be shocked that he is issued some literature not made available to everyone else? Say he was not a manager but was a team leader there. Would you be shocked that he is issued some literature not made available to everyone else? Recall that I clarified just how JWs know the book exists: Not every piece of writing not made public is the smoking gun.
  14. Are you speaking to me or to the anointed in the organization who are most definitely not working in their given capacity as God’s priesthood that they should? They are proving to be very unpopular with the elder body. Rev 11:1,2;13:1,2,5-7 For some, it just comes naturally. https://www.facebook.com/NML.EMG/videos/samuel-herd-do-corpo-governante-das-testemunhas-de-jeová-mostra-que-sabe-dançar-/2515571221800669/ "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him." 1 Cor 1:27,28 "And who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. And do not fear their intimidation, and do not be troubled, 15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong." 1 Pet 3:13-17 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Matt 5:11 Tom, just because anointed who have left the organization speak out against the ruling authority that disfellowshipped them for disagreeing with their false teachings, doesn't mean they are seeking 'first place'. They are doing what Jesus expects them to do; just as the apostles did. Tell the truth, expose the lies, and not fear men while doing it. Prov 14:5; Eph 5:11; 4:25; 2 Cor 10:4,5 Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?...as the people in the video have done. Isa 2:22
  15. You completely misunderstand your purpose. What we have here is a failure to communicate.
  16. I am not here to entertain you, TTH. I am here to entertain ME. Only one thing scarier than a rabbit, and that is a rabbit taking an AIDS test.
  17. Yesterday
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