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Jack Ryan

1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Partly because of eagerness to be alive when Jesus Christ reveals himself in glory, there have been believers throughout the centuries who began looking to a particular period or a year for the windup of the ungodly system of things. This has happened right down to these “last days.” Since certain expectations were not realized, many stumbled and returned to the ways of the world.

w86 3.15  "Yes, Jehovah’s people have had to revise expectations from time to time. Because of our eagerness, we have hoped for the new system earlier than Jehovah’s timetable has called for it. But we display our faith in God’s Word and its sure promises by declaring its message to others. Moreover, the need to revise our understanding somewhat does not make us false prophets or change the fact that we are living in “the last days,” soon to experience the “great tribulation” that will pave the way for the earthly Paradise. How foolish to take the view that expectations needing some adjustment should call into question the whole body of truth! The evidence is clear that Jehovah has used and is continuing to use his one organization, with “the faithful and discreet slave” taking the lead. Hence, we feel like Peter, who said: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life".

The problem as I see it is in the FDS/GB's reluctance to make a definite distinction between when they mean themselves and when they mean everyone else. So it's  us/we/some/our/Jehovah's people etc.... all in the one basket. And yet, as we know, when it comes to making decisions on what to believe, everyone else has absolutely nothing to do with it, so any obscuring in that regard is just silly really. It does confuse the issue temporarily, but not for long and it just causes annoyance and becomes counter productive. It's very short sighted and I wish they would stop it.

It's what in England we call the royal WE, it isn't we, it's just ME! :D

 

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17 minutes ago, Anna said:

It's what in England we call the royal WE, it isn't we, it's just ME! :D

Or is it an editorial WE?

Wikipedia: The editorial "we" is a similar phenomenon, in which an editorial columnist in a newspaper or a similar commentator in another medium refers to himself as we when giving his opinion. Here, the writer casts himself in the role of a spokesperson: either for the media institution that employs him, or more generally on behalf of the party or body of citizens who agree with the commentary.

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2 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

The propaganda comes from “the dragon” (Satan) and “the wild beast” (Satan’s earthly political setup), creatures that we have already met up with in Revelation. What, though, is “the false prophet”? This is a newcomer in name only. Previously, we were shown a wild beast with two horns like a lamb that performed great signs before the seven-headed wild beast. This deceptive creature acted like a prophet for that wild beast. It promoted worship of the wild beast, even causing an image to be built to it. (Revelation 13:11-14) This wild beast with two horns like a lamb must be the same as “the false prophet” mentioned here. Confirming this, we read later that the false prophet, like the symbolic wild beast with two horns, “performed in front of [the seven-headed wild beast] the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.”—Revelation 19:20. ["Revelation",wtbts]

If that’s the case? Then the disgusting froglike visitation, though from a different source. It consists of Satan’s “unclean inspired expressions,” clearly symbolizing propaganda designed to maneuver all human rulers, “kings,” into opposition to Jehovah God. Satan thus makes sure that they are not swayed by the pouring out of the bowls of God’s anger but are firmly on Satan’s side when “the war of the great day of God the Almighty” begins has reared its ugly head once again.

The symbolism of those that reject their own doctrine so defiantly would need to be considered. Errors expressed don’t seem practical, then...

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

some brothers on the Governing Body were very vocal that you never admit a mistake because it will be used against you.

I find it hard to disagree with this. It is common for apologies to be demanded of public figures or business people today. When they are proffered, are the persons ever forgiven? Or is it the pattern that they have thereby admitted to disqualifying conduct and should step aside.

Friends do not require apologies. Enemies will not be satisfied with them. It is primarily a matter of the heart. It sounds to me that R.L struck just the right balance.

 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

(This, of course, got the writer, R.L., dismissed from Bethel, even though he continued working for the Writing Dept.)

This makes no sense to me. If he was dismissed for his renegade writing, why was he retained as a writer?

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.

Quite true.

And more than ever I'm convinced this is apparently a US thing. I just can't recall hearing anything particularly emphatic on this matter, other than magazine statements here and there with qualifiers as quoted above, and US CO talks on cassette tapes with starry-eyed brothers saying "You've got to listen to this!".  And of course the odd brother who were (at our level) viewed endearingly as "eccentrics".

I remember meeting an old friend on the street in early '72 who told me, cynically, that I was expecting the world to end in 1975. I didn't know much about that idea then, but I just said to him well, if it doesn't, we will both be here, but if it does, who will be laughing then? I didn't even bother to follow it up after at all. In reality, it just didn't figure in my day to day thinking. But it certainly effected some it appears.

It was most definitely NOT a big subject in my experience on a KHall level, neither in the book studies (apart from a brief flurry in the Nations Shall Know study). It didn't figure at at all in my Bible Study coming into the truth. (I was asked to study the Life Everlasting book, but I rejected it over some sort of "great tribulation" confusion.) I remember a  group of witnesses from my area moved to California in '72. They were very "end soon" oriented I remember, but we just thought they were "over the top"!

It must be a "British" thing. As far as my limited experience goes, we were just not swayed by American hysteria on this matter. We took no notice of end date statements. Maybe we were ALL APOSTATE!!! :o

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54 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

It must be a "British" thing. As far as my limited experience goes, we were just not swayed by American hysteria on this matter. We took no notice of end date statements. Maybe we were ALL APOSTATE!!! :o

You might be on to something, after all, they were chastised for wearing tight pants.....and what about all those beards...those wayward Brits..

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Friends do not require apologies

Just candor and honesty will do...thanks

 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:
4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

(This, of course, got the writer, R.L., dismissed from Bethel, even though he continued working for the Writing Dept.)

This makes no sense to me. If he was dismissed for his renegade writing, why was he retained as a writer?

That's what I wondered......

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