Jump to content
The World News Media

Non-JW's Will Also Live in Paradise


Jack Ryan

Recommended Posts

  • Member
2 hours ago, Anna said:

Emma, this article does not really address the issue I raised. This is more for people who know what they are supposed to do, but are looking for loopholes to God's arrangement for salvation. This is not the issue here.

The article states that: "We are aware that many hypothetical or “What if . . .” cases can be raised, cases that seem to involve extenuating circumstances. What point, though, is there in speculating on these? Jesus’ illustration of the “sheep” and “goats” makes it plain that a time will come when the division between the “sheep” and the “goats” will be clear and final".

But that's not the issue here either. We are not asking about Jesus judging who is a sheep and who is a goat, but whether the criterion for being one or the other is baptism (washing their robes in the blood of the lamb). In other words, we know that not everyone who is baptised will be judged as a sheep, so is it possible that someone, or should I say millions, might be judged as sheep despite not being baptised and not knowing Jesus, for the simple reason because they never got the chance?

It's not even a case of speculating about many hypothetical "what ifs", or extenuating circumstances, but it is literally a case of billions simply not getting the opportunity.

If we are going to be realistic, then we know that there are going to be billions of people who won't get a choice before Armageddon comes.

I sort of like Russell’s thoughts on it...not sure if it’s wrong or not...but he explained exactly as to the point you have made...that many won’t ever here the preaching work...for what ever reason this Is ...they will not experience the second and final death at Armageddon....but just the first death...thus pay the price of sin....they will then be resurrected back IN to a new world and be given an opportunity to learn what they never did in the old world...they may or may not listen to it...then they will pay the price of the second death.

Many will definitely experience the second death at Armageddon because of their willful ignorance,,,(the false prophet and the beast) ...maybye more...??????

Rutherford changed that understanding,,,as he did with the Joel and the locust...we have reverted back to a number of teachings or understanding of Russell.....this may be one of them...hopefully 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 6.5k
  • Replies 31
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

@Jay Witness The Nethinim class antitype applies to the helpers of the Governing Body who are not of the Anointed Ones. (144,000) This new understanding came about around 1992. I believe Anthony

When asked during the Aust Royal Commission, if the members of the Governing Body consider themselves to be God's spokesperson on earth, Geoff Jackson said, "That would be presumptuous of us" Ind

I would be inclined to agree with Thinking.. Br. Jackson was in a rather precarious position. He had to be very careful and diplomatic in order not to make us appear presumptuous and haughty. As

Posted Images

  • Member
12 hours ago, Thinking said:
21 hours ago, Emma Rose said:

Indicating humility.

More like playing the politician...

I would be inclined to agree with Thinking..

Br. Jackson was in a rather precarious position. He had to be very careful and diplomatic in order not to make us appear presumptuous and haughty. As a result, there has been some confusion on the part of some Witnesses wondering what he meant, because they had always been led to believe that the GB is the only chanel God is using.
So what did Br. Jackson mean?

(that is a rhetorical question, as it's off topic here)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

The fundamental difference between many here is the ability to anthropomorphise Jehovah God.  Jehovah has written what he will do and He will choose the manner in which He carries it out, best left for Him to decide.  Jehovah is never wrong but humans have the tendency to become overly concerned about matters that, not only do they not have the answers to, but also undermine their own faith and for whatever reason, that becomes a stone on a slippery pathway to self-justification and the ruination of their faith.

Let Jehovah carry out His will, He knows better than we do what He is doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
7 hours ago, Anna said:

We will just have to wait and see

I think most have some sense that not everything dovetails, and they dismiss it with: “Is not the judge of the entire earth going to do what is right?’

If the circuit of Israel will not be covered before the end comes, plainly some will not be covered as thoroughly as we would like. Maybe there is a thought that God will prove a “soft touch” at the very end, observing, like he did to Jonah, that “ought I not feel sorry for these dumb animals, who don’t know their right from their left?” Maybe persons like you speak of will go down in the End crossfire and promptly rise in the resurrection.

Why doesn’t the org say this? They’re not authorized. ‘One faith, one Lord, one baptism’ is the line they must stick to. Besides, start speculating on how God will cover all bases anyway, and how can it not be a disincentive to preach, as Christians are supposed to be doing?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
3 hours ago, Emma Rose said:

Jehovah has written what he will do and He will choose the manner in which He carries it out, best left for Him to decide.

I think everybody (at least those commenting recently) including myself agree with that.

3 hours ago, Emma Rose said:

anthropomorphise Jehovah God

I don't think anyone is trying to do that. (Although Jehovah did create us in his image 😃 but that's another topic).

 

3 hours ago, Emma Rose said:

Jehovah is never wrong but humans have the tendency to become overly concerned about matters that, not only do they not have the answers to, but also undermine their own faith and for whatever reason, that becomes a stone on a slippery pathway to self-justification and the ruination of their faith.

The discussion got started mainly because of this scripture you cited, Rev 7:14, as an answer to whether there would be others, besides Jehovah's Witnesses who will survive Armageddon. So the discussion centered around that (besides a few off topic remarks). I think most of us are not interested in self justification, and these discussions do not undermine our faith, as ultimately we recognize this:

3 hours ago, Emma Rose said:

Let Jehovah carry out His will, He knows better than we do what He is doing.

But you know, discussion forums are here for that reason; discussion 😄

One thing experience of being in the Truth for over 35 years has taught me, is that we (Jehovah's Witnesses including the GB) do not have ALL the answers, and sometimes it is good to admit we just don't know some things 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Oh wow. I don't know how long I've been away but so much 'rubbish' is being talked here i can see I haven't missed anything sensible. 

Surely if you are going to have such a topic as "Non-JW's Will Also Live in Paradise", you need to talk about what reasons JWs have to think only JWs will survive. You need to talk about the 'teaching' that "You have to be a baptised JW to survive Armageddon". 

You need to talk about Luke 17 v 1&2 Stumbling blocks. such as the GB exalting themselves above all others, and the Child Sexual Abuse problem in the Org earthwide. 

You have to talk about those people, including me, that left the CCJW because WE do have a Christian Bible trained conscience, and we saw the wickedness and immorality inside the CCJW and knew it was not the  place to be. 

Emma Rose says she knows nothing of these things, but others such as Anna and JWI do know of many problems inside the Org and can therefore have a balanced viewpoint.

What I'm saying is, its not just the ones that haven't been reached with God's word. It is the ones that have been used as Collateral Damage Earthwide and deliberately kicked aside by the GB and the Elders and then deliberately shunned by ALL JWs.  

How much guilt will be on 'your heads' what Armageddon arrives ? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
  • Members

    • Linda S.

      Linda S. 4

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Miracle Pete

      Miracle Pete 1

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      158.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,670
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Apolos2000
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.