Resurrection during the thousand year reign?

[HollyW]

6 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Can you provide scripture to back up this claim of a resurrection during the thousand year reign?  

The one they keep bringing up is the one the Bible says takes place, not during, but at the end of the thousand year reign.

And notice what those ones are judged on:  the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. (Revelation 20:12)  Can their deeds save them?  Of course not, otherwise they might boast that they earned their own salvation, apart from Christ, which is actually what the WTS teaches them they will have to do, forever, they will continue to live for only as long as they merit it on their own.

The WTS teaches that only 144,000 people are declared righteous for life by God based on their faith in Jesus and he uses this declaration of righteousness to them as the basis for adopting them as his sons, acquitting them of all guilt due to sin, crediting them as being completely righteous persons with all their sins being forgiven and not charged against them. Once they have been declared righteous for life by God and adopted as his sons, he credits them with holiness because of their faith in the ransom sacrifice of Christ. Because of Jehovah's confidence in them that they will never sin again, he grants them immortality and incorruption in the first resurrection.

Not so with the rest of JWs. Their faith in Jesus evidently doesn't give Jehovah the confidence to grant them immortality and he isn't so sure that they won't ever sin again.

 

Holly

[Melinda Mills]

14 hours ago, HollyW said:

Thanks for your answer, Melinda.  I find it at odds with the Bible though:

Revelation 21:4  and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.

It says "death shall be no more".

There's also these scriptures:

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.

1 Corinthians 15:26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.

But thanks for your reply anyway.

 

Holly

 

 

Everything you said is correct. Adamic death will be no more.  However the second death is the option to be exercised only by Jehovah to execute willful sinners.

Do some more study to understand the difference between second death, and Adamic death.  Gehenna, the lake of fire and second death are the same.

[HollyW]

52 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

Everything you said is correct. Adamic death will be no more.  However the second death is the option to be exercised only by Jehovah to execute willful sinners.

Do some more study to understand the difference between second death, and Adamic death.  Gehenna, the lake of fire and second death are the same.

Adamic death?  Is that the death Adam suffered?

I must have missed that phrase "Adamic death" in my study of the scriptures that say death shall be no more, death will be swallowed up forever, death with be brought to nothing.

Revelation 21:4  and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.

Isaiah 25:8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.

1 Corinthians 15:26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.

For those you say are resurrected during the millennium, when does Revelation 21:4 become a reality for them?

 

Holly

 

[Shiwiii]

21 hours ago, John Houston said:

HollyW, the answer is no! During Christ 'presence' which began when after sitting at his Father right hand for a time, he then was given the kingly authority. He first removed all of satanic influence from heaven. Such the war in heaven. Then those who were to be in heaven with him, the apostle's, his mother, those firstfriuts. And then any of the 144,000 dying faithful, would be trans formed in a twinkling of an eye not remaining in the grave. That is the understanding from scripture. Before the outbreak of the great tribulation, the remaining ones of the heavenly class will be called up to heaven, to take part in the removal of wickedness from the earth, being sealed with their brothers; kings and priests with Jesus Christ! 

Having destroyed governments and wicked off the earth, Satan and his demons are abyssed for the 1000 yrs., while Jesus reigns. During this time survivors are healed from sin and imperfection, the earth from the devastating effects of mankind before. Those who succumbed to death and are in Jehovah's memory will hear Jesus' voice as he calls them forth from the common Grave, back to perfect life under much better conditions. Learning from the "opened scrolls" all the earth will be united in the knowledge of Jehovah , as John seen in vision eating from the tree of life, so to speak. Gaining access to the status that Adam and Eve had before our Heavenly Father , before Satan is loosed one last time.

This is a nice story, but it would be much more believed if it had scriptural backing. In particular the scripture that I asked in the beginning of this post. :

On 6/19/2016 at 3:42 PM, Shiwiii said:

Can someone point me to the scriptures used by the society that state there is a resurrection during  the thousand year reign. 

 

[Melinda Mills]

Answer for Holly

 

Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.

*** re chap. 41 God’s Day of Judgment—Its Joyful Outcome! ***

Opening Other Scrolls

¹³ How must these resurrected ones demonstrate their obedience? Jesus himself pointed to the two great commandments, saying: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’” (Mark 12:29-31) There are also Jehovah’s well-established principles that they must follow, such as to repudiate stealing, lying, murdering, and immorality.—1 Timothy 1:8-11; Revelation 21:8.

¹⁴ However, John has just mentioned other scrolls that will be opened during the Millennial Reign. (Revelation 20:12) What will these be? At times, Jehovah has given specific instructions for particular situations. For example, in Moses’ day he provided a detailed series of laws that meant life for the Israelites if they obeyed. (Deuteronomy 4:40; 32:45-47) During the first century, new instructions were given to help faithful ones to follow Jehovah’s principles under the Christian system of things. (Matthew 28:19, 20; John 13:34; 15:9, 10) Now John reports that the dead are to be “judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.” Evidently, then, the opening of these scrolls will publish Jehovah’s detailed requirements for mankind during the thousand years. By applying in their lives the regulations and commandments of those scrolls, obedient humans will be able to lengthen their days, attaining finally to everlasting life.

¹⁵ What an extensive campaign of theocratic education will be needed! In 2005, Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide were conducting, on the average, 6,061,534 Bible studies in various locations. But during the resurrection, countless millions of studies, based on the Bible and the new scrolls, will no doubt be conducted! All of God’s people will need to become teachers and to exert themselves. Resurrected ones, as they progress, will no doubt share in this vast teaching program. Likely, the resurrection will proceed in such a way that those who are alive may have the joy of welcoming and instructing former family members and acquaintances, who, in their turn, may welcome and instruct others. (Compare 1 Corinthians 15:19-28, 58.) The more than six million Witnesses of Jehovah who are active in spreading the truth today are laying a good foundation for the privileges they hope to have during the resurrection.—Isaiah 50:4; 54:13.

¹⁶ With regard to the earthly resurrection, Jesus said that ‘those who did good things come out to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.’ Here “life” and “judgment” contrast with each other, showing that those resurrected ones who “practiced vile things” after being instructed in the inspired Scriptures and scrolls are judged to be unworthy of life. Their names will not be written in the scroll, or book, of life. (John 5:29) This would also be true of any who previously followed a faithful course but who, for some reason, turn aside during the Thousand Year Reign. Names can be erased. (Exodus 32:32, 33) On the other hand, those who obediently follow the things written in the scrolls will keep their names on the written record, the scroll of life, and continue living. For them, the resurrection will have proved to be one “of life.”

The End of Death and Hades

¹⁷ Next, John describes something truly wonderful! “And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:14, 15) By the end of the millennial Judgment Day, “death and Hades” are completely removed. Why does this involve a thousand years? Hades, the common grave of all mankind, is emptied when the last one in God’s memory is resurrected. But as long as any humans are tainted by inherited sin, Adamic death is still with them. All those resurrected on earth, as well as the great crowd that survives Armageddon, will need to obey what is written in the scrolls until Jesus’ ransom merit has been applied in fully removing sickness, old age, and other inherited disabilities. Then Adamic death, along with Hades, is “hurled into the lake of fire.” They will be gone forever!

¹⁸ Thus, the program that the apostle Paul describes in his letter to the Corinthians will come to completion: “For [Jesus] must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, [Adamic] death is to be brought to nothing.” What happens next? “When all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him.” In other words, Jesus “hands over the kingdom to his God and Father.” (1 Corinthians 15:24-28) Yes, Jesus, having conquered Adamic death through the merit of his ransom sacrifice, will hand over a perfected human family to his Father, Jehovah. It is evidently at this point, at the end of the thousand years, that Satan is released and the final test takes place to determine whose names will remain permanently recorded in the scroll of life. “Exert yourselves vigorously” so that your name may be among them!—Luke 13:24; Revelation 20:5.

[Footnote]

Those resurrected from the sea would not include earth’s corrupted inhabitants that perished in the Deluge of Noah’s day; that destruction was final, as will be the execution of Jehovah’s judgment in the great tribulation.—Matthew 25:41, 46; 2 Peter 3:5-7.

[HollyW]

4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Answer for Holly

 

Rev 20:12  And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.

*** re chap. 41 God’s Day of Judgment—Its Joyful Outcome! ***

 The End of Death and Hades

¹⁷ Next, John describes something truly wonderful! “And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:14, 15) By the end of the millennial Judgment Day, “death and Hades” are completely removed. Why does this involve a thousand years? Hades, the common grave of all mankind, is emptied when the last one in God’s memory is resurrected. But as long as any humans are tainted by inherited sin, Adamic death is still with them. All those resurrected on earth, as well as the great crowd that survives Armageddon, will need to obey what is written in the scrolls until Jesus’ ransom merit has been applied in fully removing sickness, old age, and other inherited disabilities. Then Adamic death, along with Hades, is “hurled into the lake of fire.” They will be gone forever!

¹⁸ Thus, the program that the apostle Paul describes in his letter to the Corinthians will come to completion: “For [Jesus] must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, [Adamic] death is to be brought to nothing.” What happens next? “When all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him.” In other words, Jesus “hands over the kingdom to his God and Father.” (1 Corinthians 15:24-28) Yes, Jesus, having conquered Adamic death through the merit of his ransom sacrifice, will hand over a perfected human family to his Father, Jehovah. It is evidently at this point, at the end of the thousand years, that Satan is released and the final test takes place to determine whose names will remain permanently recorded in the scroll of life. “Exert yourselves vigorously” so that your name may be among them!—Luke 13:24; Revelation 20:5.

 

Dear Melinda, 

These four times that "Adamic death" appears in your post, none of them are in scripture, are they.  In fact, you had to insert "Adamic" into the quote of the scripture you used because it is not there in the Bible.  

 1 Corinthians 15:225-26  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

Do you see why I said what you posted was at odds with the Bible?

Is it your belief that "Adamic death" is the death Adam suffered?

Holly

[Melinda Mills]

Adamic death is what all mankind suffer. It will be done away with during the millennium. How else will people live until the end of the millennium and progress to perfection. 

Romans 5:12 says: (Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

Adamic death is what all mankind suffer. It will be done away with during the millennium. How else will people live until the end of the millennium and progress to perfection. 

Where is the scriptures that support this? Your Romans quote doesn't say any of this. It appears to me that these theorys have no scriptural basis.

[Evacuated]

On 6/24/2016 at 05:43, HollyW said:

Not so with the rest of JWs. Their faith in Jesus evidently doesn't give Jehovah the confidence to grant them immortality and he isn't so sure that they won't ever sin again.

 

Ad well as misrepresenting the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, this statement appears to confuse the concepts of immortality in the heavens and everlasting life on earth. I don't think it is necessary to revisit the many scriptures already quoted to establish the fact that the vast majority of human servants of Jehovah will live on earth as humans, but without the curse of sin and it's companion death.

The word in scripture for immortality (athanasia) is said to mean deathlessness as a quality of life. Because it goes hand in hand with incorruption, (1 Cor.15:53), the description at Heb.7:16 of Jesus having indissoluble life ("indestructible" NWT, rather than the weak "endless" in KJV) is apt. This is the quality or nature of life he enjoys and also is enjoyed by the 144000 who are resurrected to rule with him in the heavens.

However, by it's very nature, human life cannot be immortal. As long as humans are alive on earth, which will be forever (Ps.37:29), they will need to breath the right mix of gases, eat the right balance of nutrients, sleep when tired, eliminate waste products, repair worn or damaged tissue, and do whatever else is required to maintain physically the organism with which Jehovah endowed his human creation. And then, their obedience to the requirements of the creator, for whose purpose they were created and given that living organism, will ensure that that grant of life will be, just as the Bible says, everlasting but never immortal.

[Melinda Mills]

What next?

*** Bible Citations ***

(Isaiah 59:10) We grope for the wall like blind men; Like those without eyes we keep groping. We stumble at high noon as in evening darkness; Among the strong we are just like the dead.

 

[HollyW]

9 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Adamic death is what all mankind suffer. It will be done away with during the millennium. How else will people live until the end of the millennium and progress to perfection. 

Romans 5:12 says: (Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply, Melinda.

But you don't believe "Adamic death" is what Adam suffered, do you? 

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; ¹⁷ but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

When God said to Adam, "you will surely die", was that a reference to what you call "Adamic death"?

Also, "progress to perfection"......where is that in the Bible in reference to the millennium?

 

Holly

[Melinda Mills]

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

Thanks for your reply, Melinda.

But you don't believe "Adamic death" is what Adam suffered, do you? 

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; ¹⁷ but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

When God said to Adam, "you will surely die", was that a reference to what you call "Adamic death"?

Also, "progress to perfection"......where is that in the Bible in reference to the millennium?

 

Holly

Yes, Adamic death is what Adam suffered as well as all of us, his children, for the last 6000 years.