Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Mozzie

How Should We View This

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

Mozzie -
JW Insider -
20
785

Top Posters


Recommended Posts

I have been wondering about all the bad new we have been hearing about the Governing Body in regards to Child Abuse and sexual assault and the claim hat they have been covering this all up. Now we read about the Brothers going into Mexico destroying a ancient temple read this link

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Destroy-Ancient-Indigenous-Temple-in-Mexico-20160628-0009.html

Then to top that off, we have this about the governing body refusing to hand over documents and getting fines, link below

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/jun/24/ticker-judge-sanctions-jehovahs-witnesses/

I am very concerned about this, i know that Satan is attacking the brothers all the time, but if this is all true then i wonder of Jehovah's spirit is still with most of them, we know that Jehovah will not allow this to happen within the anointed, so if this is the case , then what judgement will happen and will it effect all those who are putting hope in these supposed Faithful ones.

It is one thing to except we are all imperfect, but this is getting serious, i am not Baptized yet, but this is sort of stumbling me a little

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The WTS leaves much to be desired in its handling of child abuse, but the story about vandalism of ancient temples by JWs is hardly believable.  Are you sure it's true?

However, before becoming a member of this church it would be wise to examine it's history, even as it says itself:  We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God’s Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are all imperfect that also includes the governing body util Jesus himself serender all things back to Jehovah's hand.Jehovah,Jehovah,a God merciful  and compassionate in love and abundant in loyal love and truth 7 showing loyal love to thousands,  pardoning  error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation. Ex.34.6,7.also look at Jer.30.11 and 46.27,28.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, lentaylor71 said:

We are all imperfect that also includes the governing body util 

then why do they expect you to obey THEM perfectly? 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We also reminded of our personal choice during our baptism and Jehovah knows those who belongs to him. Number 16.5, 2Tim,2.19.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like in anything, sensationalized by the media. Were these people actual JW’s? Some stipulate they were recent converted group of Witnesses that became overzealous and acted independently of The Watchtower Christian Teachings. However, even an uneducated witness wouldn’t care one way or the other to ancient Pagan shrines.

The only good answer would be, a group of Catholic sympathizers pretending to be Jehovah’s Witnesses orchestrated that defilement to tarnish the Watchtower in order to STOP an unprecedented convert from Catholic to Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses are fully aware the attack the POPE has imposed on the Watchtower, and has committed its Bishops to stop the converts at all cost.

So if you’re going to read things about the Watchtower only to complain, and criticize it? Then review and read the fine print of other religions that Satan is using to attack the Watchtower. For the Watchtower, there is nothing new with religious attacks other than since the 80’s with the introduction of the internet. Scrupulous people tend to exaggerate a problem such as child abuse, that ALL religions are guilty of.

People seem to view a bad apple as a bad barrel. Sensationalist journalist will always over play facts. Remember, LATIN AMERICA is famous for that.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, JWTheologian said:

Just like in anything, sensationalized by the media. Were these people actual JW’s? Some stipulate they were recent converted group of Witnesses that became overzealous and acted independently of The Watchtower Christian Teachings. However, even an uneducated witness wouldn’t care one way or the other to ancient Pagan shrines.

 

The only good answer would be, a group of Catholic sympathizers pretending to be Jehovah’s Witnesses orchestrated that defilement to tarnish the Watchtower in order to STOP an unprecedented convert from Catholic to Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses are fully aware the attack the POPE has imposed on the Watchtower, and has committed its Bishops to stop the converts at all cost.

 

So if you’re going to read things about the Watchtower only to complain, and criticize it? Then review and read the fine print of other religions that Satan is using to attack the Watchtower. For the Watchtower, there is nothing new with religious attacks other than since the 80’s with the introduction of the internet. Scrupulous people tend to exaggerate a problem such as child abuse, that ALL religions are guilty of.

 

People seem to view a bad apple as a bad barrel. Sensationalist journalist will always over play facts. Remember, LATIN AMERICA is famous for that.

 

Aren't you reading a little too far into this and creating a persecution complex for the society? I for one do not believe this to be true of jws in general,  but to fabricate a spin is just like the wt to do, instead of taking the "news" at face value. 

Now the second half is something completely different.  The refusal to turn over documents that they had already turned over is appalling,  unless they have something to hide. The details of the first turn over, being redacted beyond recognition is hiding something. If they stand for truth and what Jesus stood for, then they should have no problem.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

Just like in anything, sensationalized by the media. Were these people actual JW’s? Some stipulate they were recent converted group of Witnesses that became overzealous and acted independently of The Watchtower Christian Teachings. However, even an uneducated witness wouldn’t care one way or the other to ancient Pagan shrines.

 

The only good answer would be, a group of Catholic sympathizers pretending to be Jehovah’s Witnesses orchestrated that defilement to tarnish the Watchtower in order to STOP an unprecedented convert from Catholic to Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses are fully aware the attack the POPE has imposed on the Watchtower, and has committed its Bishops to stop the converts at all cost.

 

So if you’re going to read things about the Watchtower only to complain, and criticize it? Then review and read the fine print of other religions that Satan is using to attack the Watchtower. For the Watchtower, there is nothing new with religious attacks other than since the 80’s with the introduction of the internet. Scrupulous people tend to exaggerate a problem such as child abuse, that ALL religions are guilty of.

 

People seem to view a bad apple as a bad barrel. Sensationalist journalist will always over play facts. Remember, LATIN AMERICA is famous for that.

 

JWT, I don't know of any religious organization more critical than the WTS is of other Christians.  The very first WT was said to have been born because of a disagreement Russell had about the ransom with another Christian who was the editor of "Herald of the Morning".  

Making up stories about Catholics is just as bad as making them up about JWs.  You aren't doing any one any good by doing that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, HollyW said:

JWT, I don't know of any religious organization more critical than the WTS is of other Christians.  The very first WT was said to have been born because of a disagreement Russell had about the ransom with another Christian who was the editor of "Herald of the Morning".  

Making up stories about Catholics is just as bad as making them up about JWs.  You aren't doing any one any good by doing that.

While sensationalism is heightened? It is always prudent to know the subject one is referring to. The last Latin American Cities Conference the Pope attended in Santiago Chile this past April, outlined the scope in converts in Central America. Perhaps you should expand your knowledge and learn to criticize appropriately.

If you must include Pastor Russell in your discussion? Then learn the truth that it was the Catholic Priest that first attacked him, by calling him a none pastoral charlatan.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Aren't you reading a little too far into this and creating a persecution complex for the society? I for one do not believe this to be true of jws in general,  but to fabricate a spin is just like the wt to do, instead of taking the "news" at face value. 

Now the second half is something completely different.  The refusal to turn over documents that they had already turned over is appalling,  unless they have something to hide. The details of the first turn over, being redacted beyond recognition is hiding something. If they stand for truth and what Jesus stood for, then they should have no problem.

No really, Sensationalism always makes the News, especially if its towards Jehovah’s Witnesses. Now there are many shysters out in the world trying to cash in on this Child Abuse, and many ex-witnesses making claim. God will handle it all appropriately without the intervention of clueless people attempting to add to this sensationalism.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

No really, Sensationalism always makes the News, especially if its towards Jehovah’s Witnesses. Now there are many shysters out in the world trying to cash in on this Child Abuse, and many ex-witnesses making claim. God will handle it all appropriately without the intervention of clueless people attempting to add to this sensationalism.

This Statement By You Is Very telling. You have no idea of the facts, only what the wt has told you. For you to call these cases a money grab and that they are "shysters", when you know nothing of the abuse. The wt has admitted to the fact that these were substantiated claims and that they also have the proof and in some cases confessions. But you can't accept this. So you put your fingers in your ears and scream la la la la I can't hear you.

 

Also by liking your own posts to puff up your "status" is par for the course with the wt too.

  • Upvote 3
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

This Statement By You Is Very telling. You have no idea of the facts, only what the wt has told you. For you to call these cases a money grab and that they are "shysters", when you know nothing of the abuse. The wt has admitted to the fact that these were substantiated claims and that they also have the proof and in some cases confessions. But you can't accept this. So you put your fingers in your ears and scream la la la la I can't hear you.

 

Also by liking your own posts to puff up your "status" is par for the course with the wt too.

Yes, its very telling as a pretender of the truth as you hasn't a clue, of what goes on in the background in the WT Society, and how many claims are errors of not understanding the laws that govern spirituality and social justice. As for the Status Bar you mark, well to each its own. The fact that you hate your post being challenged speaks volumes of all the falsehoods you have posted so far.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

While sensationalism is heightened? It is always prudent to know the subject one is referring to. The last Latin American Cities Conference the Pope attended in Santiago Chile this past April, outlined the scope in converts in Central America. Perhaps you should expand your knowledge and learn to criticize appropriately.

 

If you must include Pastor Russell in your discussion? Then learn the truth that it was the Catholic Priest that first attacked him, by calling him a none pastoral charlatan.

 

Shiwii is correct.  You're the one feeding into sensationalizing this without any support for your careless remarks.  Can you produce evidence that shows Catholics did this vandalism on the orders of the Pope?  If not, you should probably not say anything more about it. 

And...the truth is Nelson Barbour was NOT a Catholic Priest. Didn't you know that?  Or are you referring to the former Catholic priest your translation of John 1:1 is based on?  The one the WTS said was in touch with demons.

Don't even start on the negligence perpetrated toward abuse victims by the WTS with their two-witness rule and reluctance to report abuse crimes to the police and child welfare. They have as much to answer to God concerning this as does the Catholic church and any church that covers this crime up.

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JWTheologian said:

Yes, its very telling as a pretender of the truth as you hasn't a clue, of what goes on in the background in the WT Society, and how many claims are errors of not understanding the laws that govern spirituality and social justice. As for the Status Bar you mark, well to each its own. The fact that you hate your post being challenged speaks volumes of all the falsehoods you have posted so far.

One of Your Own popes, Geoffrey Jackson, has admitted that there have been molesters within the organization that have not been turned over to authorities. This isn't behind the scenes,  but rather under oath in a court of law, Caesars law, to which the Bible tells us we must obey.

Maybe you should watch the Australian royal commission and see for yourself.  Or you can research the San Diego superior court case against Mr Campos.

I'm not afraid to have my posts challenged, in fact I would hope each and every one of them are. Then we have discussion.  You need to come to the table with proof of your claims and I will do the same. I've given you my proof, please provide yours.

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, HollyW said:

Shiwii is correct.  You're the one feeding into sensationalizing this without any support for your careless remarks.  Can you produce evidence that shows Catholics did this vandalism on the orders of the Pope?  If not, you should probably not say anything more about it. 

Before you criticize my comment? First learn to read. I neither made any suggestion the POPE ordered any type of vandalism on any ancient pagan shrine. However, there are unscrupulous people in Mexico that hate the Watchtower enough to orchestrate such a thing.

Later will find out. As for the POPE making comments about how fast Catholics in Latin America are converting to Witnesses? Google it and learn. I understand you pretenders of the truth need an avenue to criticize the Watchtower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JWTheologian said:

Before you criticize my comment? First learn to read. I neither made any suggestion the POPE ordered any type of vandalism on any ancient pagan shrine. However, there are unscrupulous people in Mexico that hate the Watchtower enough to orchestrate such a thing.

Later will find out. As for the POPE making comments about how fast Catholics in Latin America are converting to Witnesses? Google it and learn. I understand you pretenders of the truth need an avenue to criticize the Watchtower.

 You're the one who brought Catholics and the Pope into this discussion.  You also theorized that " a group of Catholic sympathizers pretending to be Jehovah’s Witnesses orchestrated that defilement to tarnish the Watchtower".  But you offer no evidence of this whatsoever, which makes it as lame as the accusation in the OP.  I don't think the WTS needs any help from Catholics, it's quite capable of tarnishing itself.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

One of Your Own popes, Geoffrey Jackson, has admitted that there have been molesters within the organization that have not been turned over to authorities. This isn't behind the scenes,  but rather under oath in a court of law, Caesars law, to which the Bible tells us we must obey.

Maybe you should watch the Australian royal commission and see for yourself.  Or you can research the San Diego superior court case against Mr Campos.

Funny thing about the ARC. I watched it all, and have the transcripts. You are totally misleading the answers Bro Jackson outlined. But as he TOLD Stewart, that what happens when secular law attempts to intervene in Judicial matters.

The Campos case, was adjudicated for none response by the Watchtower, as mentioned by the lower court that failed to advise the Watchtower about its need to appear. Clerical error. Perhaps you should learn to understand judicial matters other than reading nonsense from questionable websites littered with apostasy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HollyW said:

 You're the one who brought Catholics and the Pope into this discussion.  You also theorized that " a group of Catholic sympathizers pretending to be Jehovah’s Witnesses orchestrated that defilement to tarnish the Watchtower".  But you offer no evidence of this whatsoever, which makes it as lame as the accusation in the OP.  I don't think the WTS needs any help from Catholics, it's quite capable of tarnishing itself.

No really, it's people as yourself to want to Tarnish the Watchtower, and the lame attempts by other religions that call the Watchtower cults.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

Funny thing about the ARC. I watched it all, and have the transcripts. You are totally misleading the answers Bro Jackson outlined. But as he TOLD Stewart, that what happens when secular law attempts to intervene in Judicial matters.

Here, let me refresh your memory and provide the transcript of the opening questions Mr. Jackson was asked: 

 

6       Q.   Do you recognise, Mr Jackson ‐ and in asking this      

    7       question, let me make it clear, I'm not suggesting it is     

     8       peculiar to the Jehovah's Witness organisation, there are       

   9       many, many organisations in this position ‐ but do you        

 10       accept that the Jehovah's Witness organisation has        

 11       a problem with child abuse amongst its members?        

 12       A.   I accept that child abuse is a problem right        

 13       throughout the community and it's something that we've had      

   14       to deal with as well.       

  15         

16       Q.   Do you accept that the manner in which your        

 17       organisation has dealt with allegations of child sexual        

 18       abuse has also presented problems?      

  19       A.   There have been changes in policies over the last 20        

 20       or 30 years, where we've tried to address some of those        

 21       problem areas, and by the fact that they have changed the       

  22       policy would indicate that the original policies weren't       

  23       perfect.        

 24        

 25       Q.   And you accept, of course, that your organisation,        

 26       including people in positions of responsibility, like       

  27       elders, is not immune from the problem of child sexual        

 28       abuse?         

29       A.   That appears to be the case.

 

By mentioning "that appears to be the case" shows Mr. Jackson's acceptance that there is in fact abuse at the hands of JW's in authority. The whole reason why the ARC had this inquiry was because the WT did not report to police. So acknowledgement that this is the case, and acknowledgement of the purpose of the hearing supports my claim. 

 

8 hours ago, JWTheologian said:

The Campos case, was adjudicated for none response by the Watchtower, as mentioned by the lower court that failed to advise the Watchtower about its need to appear. Clerical error. Perhaps you should learn to understand judicial matters other than reading nonsense from questionable websites littered with apostasy.

Actually the Campos case has the WT in Contempt of court and is being fined $4000 a day for failure to hand over documents. 

" A San Diego Superior Court judge has ordered the Church of Jehovah's Witnesses, also known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested... "

" ... judge Richard Strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 Body of Elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders. "

 

If this were a clerical error, then why have they not produced the documents yet? They are spending YOUR WWW donations daily to keep their records out of court! 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The article that claims that 'Jehovah's Witnesses destroyed ancient indigenous temple site in Mexico' appears ridiculous. If true, then I would say that JWT is correct about the possibility that these were very not "real" JW's, or misidentified themselves. The one thing that might make it seem possible is the idea that they believed demonic practices were continuing to be observed in modern times here, not just ancient times. That might make someone feel they should do the same thing that some of the good kings and judges of Judah and Israel had done. But it is extremely unlikely in my opinion.

Also, this particular news site is one of those where people can make up their own news and submit it. That's a "red flag" that this entire thing might be made up. Those types of sites become victims to falsehood and/or satire. If this story doesn't show up elsewhere in a more reputable source, then I'm sure it can be dismissed as false. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  





  • The most creative and intelligent people on planet Earth hang out on this forum. Be ready to have your points of view challenged and refined.

    We also want others to share your posts to ALL the social media outlets not just our own.

    You need to be registered and logged in to get full access and to add content yourself. 

     

    Welcome To Our Community

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Somewhere around 1995 a recruiter called me up and wanted me to go to work at the World Trade Center Towers.  He said I could live several states away, and commute in, and that there was a train station in the bottom of the World Trade Center, and I would never even have to go to a "surface street".   A four hour commute did not bother me at all, as I am a compulsive reader, and had a long list of unread books. The money was fabulous, and it was a great job... but it seemed to me that the place was a fire trap. I even considered taking a reserve parachute, and a shot gun with slugs, to shoot out the window, and parachute to the street below, in case of a fire.  I know it takes about 400 feet to get line stretch on the suspension lines of a parachute, and before that, a parachute is merely decorative. So, I would have needed about 600 feet for a successful deployment. I calculated the odds six ways from Sunday, and decided not to take the job. September 11, 2001, I knew I had made the right decision.  
    • Guest Boss
    • Major New Features / Enhancements Post Before Registering Animated GIFs AdminCP Notification Center New Email Features: Email Statistics Email Advertisements Unfollow Without Logging In SEO Improvements: Improved pagination with page number now in path (rather than query string) and unique page titles for paginated pages. Improved use of canonical tags. Improved handling of empty containers and profiles to reduce soft 404s. Improved JSON-LD markup, adding @id tags and fixing URLs for comments. Removed page output hidden by JavaScript. Performance Improvements: Added Lazy Loading for images, which will speed up page rendering. Added HTTP/2 support with prefetch/preload. Added support for Brotli compression. Improved default profile photos to use inline SVGs rather than generated images, which will speed up page rendering. Improved browser caching of pages served by the guest page cache, which will reduce the number of requests reaching the server. Improved handing of session data for guests to reduce database reads for guests. Optimized images to reduce file size for faster page rendering. Other minor performance improvements to reduce database queries and fix unnecessary code execution. Commerce Store Filters allow customers to filter products by price, review, stock, or custom admin-defined filters. Core Added setting to display user group formatting in more areas (see 6 New Micro Features). Added less intrusive browser notification prompt in Notifications menu (see 6 New Micro Features). Added ability to show sidebar blocks to only certain types of devices (see 6 New Micro Features). Added ability for club owners to reorder the navigation tabs (see 6 New Micro Features). Added ability for announcements to be linked to an URL or be a title only (see 6 New Micro Features), improved consistency in how announcements are shown in different areas. Improved UI for entering time intervals in AdminCP settings (see 6 New Micro Features). Added a new Icons & Logos section in the AdminCP which allows providing logos for use when sharing links from the community, adding the community as a home screen app on a mobile device (along with additional settings for a PWA manifest to control certain aspects the community’s behaviour when used in this way), and in Safari’s favourites menus and pinned tabs on macOS. Added a new UI for attachments, showing a box with some information about the file, rather than a plain line (see Turbo charging loading speeds). Commerce Braintree Gateway including support for PayPal (with recurring payments), Venmo, and cards. Deprecates some PayPal features. Added ability to target bulk mails to members who have spent certain amounts. Added sidebar widgets for best sellers, latest products, product reviews and a featured product. New Server Requirements: PHP 7.1.0 or higher required (7.3.x now supported). MySQL 5.5.3 or higher requires (5.6.2 recommended). Removed Features Removed EmojiOne-style emojis due to licensing issues. Removed Gravatar support due to privacy concerns and performance issues. Removed password hashes when downloading a member list from the AdminCP. This is for security, to reduce the ease of obtaining sensitive data if the AdminCP is ever compromised. Removed the name of the content (e.g. topic) from the “Next Unread” link which could consume significant server resources on large communities.
    • Sanders is a guy that thinks Socialism ... a system that has failed every time it has ever been tried, when the Socialists run out of OTHER PEOPLES' MONEY, and went along with the Hildabeast, when she rigged the Democrat Primary election against him. That speaks for his credibility. Zero  
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      57,650
    • Total Posts
      101,416
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      15,738
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    IPS Temp Admin
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation