Jump to content

Topic Summary


Last Reply



Jack Ryan -
Queen Esther -

Top Posters

Recommended Posts


1: The position of the Watchtower as regards smoking


*** jv 181 13 Recognized by Our Conduct ***As a further forward step in consistent application of that Bible counsel, none who were still smoking were accepted for baptism from 1973 onward. During the following months, those who were actively involved in tobacco production or in promoting the sale of tobacco were helped to realize that they could not continue to do that and be accepted as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

2: Watchtower criticism of the Catholic Church's involvement in the tobacco business


*** g95 10/8 28 Watching the World *** “Holiness, why does the
Vatican still sell cigarettes?" a priest asked John Paul II during the pope's yearly audience with the clergy of Rome. He continued: "Besides damaging health, this commerce contradicts your continual appeals in favor of the protection of health and our pastoral activity." For Ugo Mesini, the 76-year-old priest, the fact that the Vatican sells tobacco and cigarettes containing the statement "smoking is damaging to your health" is a "counter-testimony" and a "contradiction" to the pope's message. As reported in the Rome newspaper Il Messaggero, the pope replied that on the matter of tobacco, his "conscience is clear." He promised, though, to speak about the Vatican's cigarette sales with the overseeing cardinal.

3: Watchtower quote on whether a Jehovah's Witness can be involved in selling cigarettes


*** w99 4/15 29 Questions From Readers *** 3. To what degree is the person involved? Let us return to the example of a store. Probably an employee assigned to run the cash register or to fill the shelves only occasionally handles cigarettes or religious items; that is a small part of his overall work. What a contrast, though, with an employee in the same store who works at the tobacco counter!

4: Quote regarding not investing in "unethical" enterprises


*** g00 10/8 pp. 25-27 Is It Wise to Invest in the Stock Market? ***
By considering the background of a company, an investor can also ensure that his money will not be used to support an unethical enterprise.—See Awake!, February 8, 1962, pages 21-3.


The H M Riley Trust is a U.S. trust that has the Watchtower Society as the sole beneficiary. Basically, it is a vehicle to make income for the Watchtower, using assets left by Henrietta Riley. The income generated by the trust is transferred to the Watchtower by means of a "donation". For the year ended April 30, 2002, the trust generated income of $1,740,127 and donated $1,945,645 to the Watchtower. In comparison, for the 2001 year the trust generated $2,939,731 in income, and donated $3,285,050 to the Watchtower. The difference between income and expenditure is made up by realising gains on the assets held.

The income of the trust is from two main sources. The majority is from "oil and gas royalties." The trust also has almost $2 million of investments in various stocks and other vehicles.

Figure 1: Front page of HM Riley Trust form 990, year ended April 30, 2002

Figure 2: Second page of form 990, HM Riley Trust year ended April 30, 2002, showing primary purpose as "support Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society"

As part of the annual return of the trust, schedules are attached giving details of the trust's investment income, and investment assets held at the year end. There are a variety of corporate stocks that have been traded and held, in such companies as Exxon Mobil, Coca Cola, Barclay's, JDS Uniphase and (ironically) Proctor and Gamble. It is a long list. However, here is an extract of the 2002 listing of stocks held:

Figure 3: Extract of investment listing of HM Riley Trust, April 30, 2002

One name that jumps out from the list above: Philip Morris Companies Inc, one of the world's largest manufacturers of cigarettes and tobacco products. Philipmorris.com states:


The Philip Morris name has long been associated with high quality tobacco products and globally recognized cigarette brands. Today the name is proudly carried by the leading cigarette manufacturer in the United States, Philip Morris USA, and by Philip Morris International, the world’s leading international cigarette business with products sold in 160 countries worldwide.
Thus, the trust has made an investment in a cigarette company, with the object of generating income which will be transferred to the Watchtower Society.


The initial quotes showed clearly that the Watchtower regards smoking as an unchristian activity. Indeed, smoking is a disfellowshipping offence for a Jehovah's Witness. A Jehovah's Witness is also not permitted to be employed in the tobacco industry, even to the extent of working at the cigarette serving counter of a store. There can be no doubt that if an individual Jehovah's Witness invested in the cigarette industry, the Watchtower would consider this an unchristian type of investment.

Yet, a trust which exists for the primary reason of generating income for the Watchtower, invests in a cigarette company. While the amount of the investment is small, it is not the amount that is the issue, but the principle: the Watchtower Society will benefit from an investment made in the tobacco industry.

They will do this knowingly, because if I can get hold of this information, do you really think that the Watchtower Society doesn't have a copy of these very same documents? And while the objection could be made that it is not actually the Watchtower Society itself making the investment, but just receiving the cash, is this a valid defence? If they know that the money is from a source they have condemned as unchristian, are they not hypocritical in receiving it? Remember that the sole purpose of this trust is to generate income for the Watchtower.

In fact, here is another example of the Watchtower's hypocrisy in matters of principle. That which they condemn other religions for, and restrict their individual followers from, becomes acceptable when it results in $$$ for the Watchtower Society itself.

From their own lips:


*** g70 2/8 23 Churches in Business *** After listing some of the many companies in which the Vatican has substantial interest Mr. Lo Bello observes: “The foregoing details provide an uncomfortably sharp realization that the Vatican and its men have indeed carved a niche for their firm in the world of big business.”
The vast business holdings of the and of other religious organizations bind them inseparably with the business world. How unlike the true Christians concerning whom Jesus Christ said: “They are no part of the world”!—John .
The religious organization that truly is serving God, in harmony with the example set by Jesus Christ, concentrates on preaching and teaching the liberating truths of his Word and does not become involved in commercial businesses. Following the Bible’s instructions, it does not involve itself in “the commercial businesses of life.”—2 Tim. 2:4.

via Expatbrit

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

While the Watchtower may be the beneficiary of such investments currently, once the assets are TRANSFERRED TO the control of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (JW.org) they would be sold off and invested in large banks such as JP Morgan Chase Money Market funds in order to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

I think that is the correct thing to do and I'm sure they would do the same at HQ

Notice that Watchtower is not itself doing the actual investment only reaping the rewards of such investment.

This is not a new problem and has been handled for decades in this way I believe from my past readings.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

(Micah 4:13) 13 Get up and thresh, O daughter of Zion; For I will change your horns into iron, And I will change your hooves into copper, And you will pulverize many peoples. You will devote their dishonest profit to Jehovah, And their resources to the true Lord of the whole earth.”

Any questions?

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

(Micah 4:13) 13 Get up and thresh, O daughter of Zion; For I will change your horns into iron, And I will change your hooves into copper, And you will pulverize many peoples. You will devote their dishonest profit to Jehovah, And their resources to the true Lord of the whole earth.”

Any questions?

WOW....  deep thinking, yes  ;-(  >:(

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Witness
      “Same vs. different” is a typical worksheet handed out to preschool and kindergarten children.  In the pictures below, would you consider them the “same”, or “different”? 
      Watchtower 11/1/1990 p. 26

      Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
      As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. 

      Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1

      Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
      Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established.  
      Although these two quotes appear to be “different”, they are in fact, the same… hypocrisy. 
      Matt 12:37; John 9:41; Luke 12:1
      Pearl Doxsey ( 4womaninthewilderness), consider “An Illustration/Great Deception”

    • By Bible Speaks
      Jehovah Does Not Tolerate Hypocritical Worship! 
      “As regards Jehovah, hiseyes are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.”—2 CHRONICLES 16:9.
      Such as one who deliberately puts up a front, feigning obedience while practicing        sin in secret 
      32 "For Jehovah detests a devious person, But His close friendship is with the upright." (Proverbs 3:32) NWT  jw.org 

    • By Bible Speaks
      Another Scandal in Ukraine, against Jehovah's Witnesses.
      The video that we show here is the search of a supposed policeman to a kingdom hall, where they miraculously found nazi propaganda.
      The Self-proclaimed Republic of lugansk, even on territory of Ukraine, declares itself to be part of Russia and applies laws.
      After the register, they accuse the witnesses of Neo-Nazis and spies of the Ukrainian government. The Russian Puppet Minister announces:
      " as a result of search operations, it was found that the organization had not only acted in violation of the people's legislation, but was also an active agent of the LC security service. During the inspection of the premises belonging to the religious organization "Jehovah's witnesses" in the city of luhansk and the city of alchevsk, they found and confiscated materials from the campaign containing symbols Nazis and paraphernalia, as well as pamphlets calling for cooperation with the Special services of Ukraine ",
      " during the records, the employees of the LC also found electronic means for the dissemination of materials that spread hatred and animosity, belittle the honour and dignity of a person on grounds of belonging to a religious group.
    • By TheWorldNewsOrg
      And then compare Chuck Schumer's fake tears vs. his voice years earlier.
    • By Jack Ryan
      Nicolas King frequently sings with the Watchtower Chorus and had a supporting role in the DVD released at the 2014 convention. (He's on the bottom row, second from the right.)

      But he also is a jazz singer, traveling constantly performing at concerts, casinos, charity events, even a brief appearance on The Tonight Show. (Not much time left for service and meetings, now is there?) Besides that, he's hobnobbing with loads of worldly people, showing off on his Facebook page.

      So why is Sergei from the convention video not allowed to play his violin, but Nicolas can pursue his worldly career and get rewarded for it by the organization?
    • By Jack Ryan
      Phillip Morris Company is now called Altria, Inc.

      I saw this thread on Facebook and would like to know the truth.

    • By Jack Ryan
      I was reading this week's study article on remaining loyal to Jah. Found an interesting contradiction on shunning. They cite two experiences. In one a JW shuns her mom and her example is posted as a positive one of someone doing the right thing. The second example however of a JW being shunned by his non-JW family is labeled as an injustice. Here's first one:

      So, the example above demonstrates the supposed loyal faith of a daughter that refused to talk to the woman that gave birth to her, raised her and surely sacrificed so much for her. This, the Watchtower claims, is an example of love and loyalty. Now let's see the second example cited in the same article in a latter paragraph:

      In this example, the non-JW family members were cruel, because they "opposed his association" and "forbid him to visit them for years". Yet, isn't this exactly what the JW daughter from the first experience was doing to her mother? only in reverse?
      - Sanchy
    • By Jack Ryan
      I've seen a few JW's who are currently in good standing with photos at rap concerts and local bars with other non-witnesses and sometimes even a few other JW's.
      I don't like confrontation nor do I have the time to track down which congregation they go to or the addresses on where to send photos.
      Is there a way we could submit photos on here so that local elder bodies could follow up and disfellowship them?
      Sort of a JW wikileaks to clean out hypocrites?
      What do you think of the idea?
  • Forum Statistics

    Total Topics
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    Total Members
    Most Online
    Newest Member

  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.