The timing of Jesus' 2nd Coming

[HollyW]

Can the timing of Jesus' Second coming, or Presence, be calculated through Bible chronology?

It's been brought to my attention that C.T. Russell, the founder of the WTS, believed Christ's return could be calculated by determining the length and termination point of the Gentile Times and by calculating the close of 6,000 years of human history.

These scriptures speak to this directly and indicate that it is not so:

Matthew 24:36-39 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. for the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.  For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Mark 13:32-37 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.  It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.  Therefore, be on the alert---for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning---in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.  What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"

Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority.

 

[Arauna]

I always remind people that when Russell was studying the Bible and learning about truths such as 1914 (they did not have the 'whole' truth about 1914 but only some of it) the rest of the world was still in the time of the industrial revolution.  People in America were still moving West in wagons and they were shooting each other because there was not much law and order.... they were still fighting Indians and this time was quite some time before WW1 (No cars or the modern conveniences - only trains and the telegraph were on the horizon).   Similarly, when we look at the seventies and some people thought the 6000 years were almost done - they naturally made assumptions.  This is normal human behavior (to speculate) if one is very interested in the Bible. So when we evaluate the past - we must always evaluate what was said within the time frame (environment) that these things were said.  What was the rest of society like in this time? What was their level of knowledge compared to the light that Jehovah was slowly revealing?

As the light is getting brighter - we now understand so much about the future Kingdom and how it is going to function. We also understand the qualities that we need to develop if we want to be part of that future government.  It seems the governing body is now mainly focusing on strengthening us for the nasty world events which lie ahead.  We need to always be ready.

If one looks at the escalation of violence in the world, the aggressive posturing of nations, and one looks at the preaching work done in the entire world - reaching even the remotest places - then one remembers where one learnt these Truths regarding the mortality of the soul, the earth being a paradise, and many more truths.  Jehovah is using the governing body, which was only appointed in 1919 with the commission to preach to the world. 

Thank Jehovah for knowing the truth and giving it to us in little bites so we can absorb it - because without it - we are lost.  Always remember that people are people and they are imperfect individuals.... (prone to speculate).... but they are drawn to Jehovah because he sees something good in them. Without Jehovah's spirit no-one can come to him.  This is why we as witnesses should never think we are better than others because we know the truth. We must always remember who gave us the truth and who gives us Spirit to understand it.

[HollyW]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I always remind people that when Russell was studying the Bible and learning about truths such as 1914 (they did not have the 'whole' truth about 1914 but only some of it) the rest of the world was still in the time of the industrial revolution.  People in America were still moving West in wagons and they were shooting each other because there was not much law and order.... they were still fighting Indians and this time was quite some time before WW1 (No cars or the modern conveniences - only trains and the telegraph were on the horizon).   Similarly, when we look at the seventies and some people thought the 6000 years were almost done - they naturally made assumptions.  This is normal human behavior (to speculate) if one is very interested in the Bible. So when we evaluate the past - we must always evaluate what was said within the time frame (environment) that these things were said.  What was the rest of society like in this time? What was their level of knowledge compared to the light that Jehovah was slowly revealing?

As the light is getting brighter - we now understand so much about the future Kingdom and how it is going to function. We also understand the qualities that we need to develop if we want to be part of that future government.  It seems the governing body is now mainly focusing on strengthening us for the nasty world events which lie ahead.  We need to always be ready.

If one looks at the escalation of violence in the world, the aggressive posturing of nations, and one looks at the preaching work done in the entire world - reaching even the remotest places - then one remembers where one learnt these Truths regarding the mortality of the soul, the earth being a paradise, and many more truths.  Jehovah is using the governing body, which was only appointed in 1919 with the commission to preach to the world. 

Thank Jehovah for knowing the truth and giving it to us in little bites so we can absorb it - because without it - we are lost.  Always remember that people are people and they are imperfect individuals.... (prone to speculate).... but they are drawn to Jehovah because he sees something good in them. Without Jehovah's spirit no-one can come to him.  This is why we as witnesses should never think we are better than others because we know the truth. We must always remember who gave us the truth and who gives us Spirit to understand it.

Hmmmm......While I do appreciate your response, Arauna, you've left me with a struggle of trying to find an answer to the OP question in what you've posted.   

Can the timing of Jesus' Second coming, or Presence, be calculated through Bible chronology?   

Russell set out seven specific events that would take place that would prove his speculations about 1914 were based on the Bible.  None of those events have occurred, so Russell's calculations about 1914 were not derived through Bible chronology.  I think they were derived from what he called God's "Stone Witness", the Great Pyramid in Egypt.

This thing you say about the 'light getting brighter', apparently you are relating it to the ability of man to adapt to his environment, to invent faster modes of traveling, and to making life easier with conveniences.  But when comparing Russell's time with that of the Apostles in the first century...if you are saying Russell was still in the dark, what does that say about those who were way before him.   It's as though you're saying the Bible canon was closed too soon---Jehovah still had things to add to it.

You don't mention the scriptures I shared in the OP.  If Jesus' second coming could be calculated thru Bible chronology, there would be no point in telling His disciples that there were things they were not to know---yet if it could be calculated from the Bible, surely they would have done so.  And even if they couldn't, certainly Jesus and the angels would be able to figure it out.

[Arauna]

I fail to see why people go back to Russell to evaluate the Truth we have today.  I left a Christian religion because their credo was set in stone many hundreds of years ago and when a professor publically wrote that the Witnesses were right about the earth being a paradise again - he had to withdraw what he wrote or lose his job.  If we all stuck to things said hundreds of years ago there would be no growth - like many Christian religions and Islam.  I became a Witness because there are changes and they admit at being wrong about something and move forward.

I evaluate Russell within the period he lived in - as I indicated above.  Do you see this connection? Many people evaluate everything retroactively by today's standards.  They usually fail to understand much of the Bible as Abraham and many people mentioned in the Bible lived in times much different to ours and one has to evaluate their laws and actions within the time period in which they lived. 

I study ancient archeology and I love history.  The science of archeology only began in 1815 when Napoleon went into Egypt.  It was during the following years, especially after 1830 that there was a rush to discover the ancient cultures mentioned in the Bible.  Many people got onto the bandwagon of trying to see something more in the pyramids as related to the Bible, especially when more and more discoveries of artifacts of the ancient cities came about - the frenzy escalated. This was the time of Darwin and the challenges to the Bible too! The power of the old Christian religions were getting less.  They had ruled the world for more than a millennium.  New thoughts were coming out right on time before 1914.  (Daniel 12 shows that the knowledge would grow more only in the final days)

As I said in my previous comment - Russell and his friends had some of the facts - but not all.  He was just a human being that was searching, and as I said before - it was only in 1919 (after Jesus made an inspection of the Christian religions on earth ) that he chose a group of sincere people to do the preaching work earth-wide. This was their commission. This does not indicate that they were perfect in any way. They still had to be cleansed of many false practices (pyramids, neutrality, Xmas celebrations, and many more - and this has been an ongoing improvement).

Russell's calculations were arrived at through the Bible prophecy and a secular date.  The secular date when the Jews were allowed to go back to Jerusalem is a well-established date.  Russell counted 70 years back from this (and the time it would take for them to get back) and came to 607BCE.  From 607BCE they followed bible prophecy to calculate the number of years that the world powers would rule before Jesus took the throne in heaven...  but Russell unfortunately tried to superimpose these calculations onto Pyramids....which was actually built for worship of the zodiac - to guide the pharaoh through the heavenly bodies and the stars!

Just a  thought.... have you studied the relevant prophesies and seen where the JWs today get the dates from? It is a fascinating subject.

Russell believed that Jesus would start ruling in heaven in 1914 - which was calculated correctly.  Russell thought it was at this time that Armageddon would take place - which was wrong. They did not  yet understand the scriptures referring to a "great crowd" - a great group of people that Jehovah would bring out of mankind and who would survive Armageddon.  Revelation 7: 9+ 14

Revelation 12: 6-12 Clearly shows:- (and Russell obviously did not yet understand this either - they were some of the first groups who broke away from the powerful religions teachings inherited from the reformation) - When Jesus takes authority in the heavens he would throw Satan and his demons out of heaven. (Jesus sat at the right hand of his father until 1914 when he received the Kingdom power from his father and threw Satan out.) The scriptures goes on to show that Satan would then create havoc on earth because he has a "short period of time left"   This scripture clearly shows that there would be a period on earth when Jesus would be ruling invisible from heaven amidst his enemies Ps 110:1+2.

For the calculations of the prophecies read the appendix of "What does the bible really teach" and for more on where the witnesses get the dates 607BCE and 1914CE read the insight on the scriptures. The insight on the scriptures also quotes from secular sources and you can go and check out the 'secular sources' by going to any good library or a reliable internet archive/ library. Most secular dates are not set in stone either but they give a good indication of the time period. 

 

[Arauna]

So from the above one can see that Jesus would be ruling amidst his enemies before he 'stands up' to bring destruction to the wicked on the earth.  This is also a related subject.

[HollyW]

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I fail to see why people go back to Russell to evaluate the Truth we have today. 

It's because the WTS does.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014268

2014 ***God's Kingdom Rules!***

A Letter From the Governing Body. 

Dear Fellow Kingdom Publisher:

PICTURE yourself as a member of the Brooklyn Bethel family on Friday morning, October 2, 1914.  You are seated at your usual place at the breakfast table, awaiting the arrival of Brother C. T. Russell. Suddenly the door to the dining room opens and Brother Russell appears. He pauses for a moment, as is his custom, and greets the Bethel family with a cheery “Good morning, all.” But then, instead of immediately taking his place at the head of the table, he claps his hands and makes a thrilling announcement: “The Gentile Times have ended; their kings have had their day!” 

 

And rightly so because the Governing Body was not appointed as the faithful slave for what they are teaching today but for what they were teaching up to 1919.

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I left a Christian religion because their credo was set in stone many hundreds of years ago and when a professor publically wrote that the Witnesses were right about the earth being a paradise again - he had to withdraw what he wrote or lose his job.  

Without knowing any more about this story than the vague details you've offered, and failing to see what this has to do with the question "Can the timing of Jesus' Second coming, or Presence, be calculated through Bible chronology?"

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If we all stuck to things said hundreds of years ago there would be no growth - like many Christian religions and Islam.   

But......Christians stick to things said thousands of years ago in the Bible, so your criteria for judging the truth doesn't hold up.    

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I became a Witness because there are changes and they admit at being wrong about something and move forward.

So you wanted a religion that keeps changing what you believe the Bible really teaches.  Interesting.

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I evaluate Russell within the period he lived in - as I indicated above.  Do you see this connection? Many people evaluate everything retroactively by today's standards.  They usually fail to understand much of the Bible as Abraham and many people mentioned in the Bible lived in times much different to ours and one has to evaluate their laws and actions within the time period in which they lived. 

I see the WTS connection to Russell is that his teachings are what Jesus is said to have examined along with all the teachings from other Christian churches up to 1919, and subsequently accepting the former and rejecting the latter; thereafter making the leaders of the WTS the sole channel of communication from God to mankind.  So, you're right, we should not be evaluating WTS standards of today because those were not what Jesus reviewed.  We should be evaluating the same material Jesus reviewed to see if it really was the truth.  I mean, Jesus wouldn't have found false teachings acceptable, would he.

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I study ancient archeology and I love history.   

Have you ever studied the history of the WTS?

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The science of archeology only began in 1815 when Napoleon went into Egypt.  It was during the following years, especially after 1830 that there was a rush to discover the ancient cultures mentioned in the Bible.  Many people got onto the bandwagon of trying to see something more in the pyramids as related to the Bible, especially when more and more discoveries of artifacts of the ancient cities came about - the frenzy escalated. This was the time of Darwin and the challenges to the Bible too! The power of the old Christian religions were getting less.  They had ruled the world for more than a millennium.  New thoughts were coming out right on time before 1914.  (Daniel 12 shows that the knowledge would grow more only in the final days)

Would some of those "new thoughts" be that the child born in Revelation 12 is the antichrist and Michael the Archangel in that same chapter is the Catholic Pope?

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As I said in my previous comment - Russell and his friends had some of the facts - but not all.  He was just a human being that was searching, and as I said before - it was only in 1919 (after Jesus made an inspection of the Christian religions on earth ) that he chose a group of sincere people to do the preaching work earth-wide. This was their commission. This does not indicate that they were perfect in any way. They still had to be cleansed of many false practices (pyramids, neutrality, Xmas celebrations, and many more - and this has been an ongoing improvement).

How wise is it for a religious organization to call its teachings "the truth" and then change those teachings?

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Russell's calculations were arrived at through the Bible prophecy and a secular date.  The secular date when the Jews were allowed to go back to Jerusalem is a well-established date.  Russell counted 70 years back from this (and the time it would take for them to get back) and came to 607 BCE.  From 607 BCE they followed bible prophecy to calculate the number of years that the world powers would rule before Jesus took the throne in heaven...   

Still, I wonder how Russell was able to calculate something that the Apostles couldn't, that Jesus couldn't, that the angels couldn't.

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but Russell unfortunately tried to superimpose these calculations onto Pyramids....which was actually built for worship of the zodiac - to guide the pharaoh through the heavenly bodies and the stars!

You no doubt agree with Rutherford's assessment of the Great Pyramid that Russell termed "God's Stone Witness" and Rutherford called "Satan's Bible."  But, no matter how sincere the Bible Students were, how could Jesus countenance calculations based on the pyramids?

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Just a  thought.... have you studied the relevant prophesies and seen where the JWs today get the dates from? It is a fascinating subject.

I know they get 1914 from Russell and he set the standard by which to judge whether or not he got 1914 from the Bible.  1914 fails that standard.  See his book written in 1889, The Time Is At Hand, pgs. 76-79; it lists seven proofs that were going to show whether or not 1914 was really the end of the times of the Gentiles as Russell claimed it would be and as JWs today claim it was.

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Russell believed that Jesus would start ruling in heaven in 1914 - which was calculated correctly.   

Russell believed Jesus returned and began ruling as King in 1874. That's why he named his magazine Zion's Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence, because he believed Christ's Presence had begun in 1874.  In 1890 he wrote Thy Kingdom Come in which he states the following about this:

Volume 3 - "Thy Kingdom Come" / C301 - Thy God Reigneth!

 STUDY IX

THY GOD REIGNETH!

A Resume of the Prophetic Evidences Which Show the Presence of Immanuel, and that His Kingdom is in Process of Establishment. 

"How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!" Isa. 52:7 

IN view of all the evidences presented in this and the preceding volumes of this work, we have no hesitancy in proclaiming to the Lord's loyal and faithful people, his beloved Zion, this glorious intelligence: "Thy God Reigneth!" The oft-repeated prayer of the Church has been answered: the Kingdom of God has indeed come. In the days of the present kings of earth, before their lease of dominion expires, it is being set up. The dead in Christ are even now risen and exalted with our Lord and Head. And the "feet" members of the body of Christ, who still tarry in the flesh, catching the inspiration of the glorified throng who have already ascended into the mount (kingdom) of God, reflect a measure of that transcendent glory, as did Moses when he came down from Mount Sinai. The faces of these messengers shine with that heavenly joy which fills their hearts and overflows their lips as they commune together and with the Lord, and go heralding to every nation (mountain) the good tidings of Immanuel's reign begun. How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him (the feet of the Christ) that bringeth good tidings of Millennial joy and peace, assuring Zion that the reign of our Lord is begun!

Wonderful truths are these! the Kingdom of God in process of setting up; the Lord Jesus and the risen saints already here and engaged in the great harvest work, with whom we also, as members of that honored body, as the "feet of him," though still in the flesh, are permitted to be co-workers, to herald the good tidings among men and to apprise them of the significance of the wonderful and troublous events which must prepare the way for and introduce the glorious reign of righteousness.

 

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Russell thought it was at this time that Armageddon would take place - which was wrong.

 He believed Armageddon would end BEFORE 1914 and the Millennium would begin in 1914, that's why his STUDIES were originally called Millennial Dawn. 

Zion's Watch Tower, July 1, 1894 ::R1677 : page 226:: CAN IT BE DELAYED UNTIL 1914?

Seventeen years ago people said, concerning the time features presented in MILLENNIAL DAWN, They seem reasonable in many respects, but surely no such radical changes could occur between now and the close of 1914: if you had proved that they would come about in a century or two, it would seem much more probable. What changes have since occurred, and what velocity is gained daily! "The old is quickly passing, and the new is coming in."

Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain.

We see no reason for changing the figures-- nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. We see no reason for changing from our opinion expressed in the View presented in the WATCH TOWER of Jan. 15, '92. We advise that it be read again.

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They did not  yet understand the scriptures referring to a "great crowd" - a great group of people that Jehovah would bring out of mankind and who would survive Armageddon.  Revelation 7: 9+ 14

 Yes, they did understand the scriptures referring to the great crowd.  They viewed the great crowd as a heavenly group of anointed believers who were not quite as faithful as the 144,000 elite group.  It wasn't until the 1930's that Rutherford threw them out of heaven, shut the door in their faces, and deprived them of partaking at the Memorial.

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Revelation 12: 6-12 Clearly shows:- (and Russell obviously did not yet understand this either - they were some of the first groups who broke away from the powerful religions teachings inherited from the reformation) - When Jesus takes authority in the heavens he would throw Satan and his demons out of heaven. (Jesus sat at the right hand of his father until 1914 when he received the Kingdom power from his father and threw Satan out.) The scriptures goes on to show that Satan would then create havoc on earth because he has a "short period of time left"   This scripture clearly shows that there would be a period on earth when Jesus would be ruling invisible from heaven amidst his enemies Ps 110:1+2.

Russell didn't inherit his beliefs about Revelation 12 from the Reformation.  As I posted earlier, he was saying the child was the antichrist and Michael was the Pope.  And as I just posted, Russell believed Jesus began ruling invisible from heaven in 1874.

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For the calculations of the prophecies read the appendix of "What does the bible really teach" and for more on where the witnesses get the dates 607 BCE and 1914 CE read the insight on the scriptures. The insight on the scriptures also quotes from secular sources and you can go and check out the 'secular sources' by going to any good library or a reliable internet archive/ library. Most secular dates are not set in stone either but they give a good indication of the time period. 

What this confirms is that the timing of Jesus' Second coming, or Presence, cannot be calculated through Bible chronology

[Arauna]

Thanks for the reply Allen ...and the encouragement.  I regularly re-evaluate the Bible and the teachings of the Governing body - and it has strengthened my faith and loyalty to "being a reality" for me.  An intrinsic evaluation of the Bible's ' logic and consistency' of the central Bible message (the theme of the Bible  - a future government of God under Jesus to restore the unity in the universe) has made me come to the conclusion that the Truth (as the Witnesses know it) is the Truth and as the meaning of Jehovah's name indicates: 'Jehovah will prove to be' - very soon - when the world will see physical evidence that he is the true god... .

When speaking to atheists I usually show them the bad conditions of the environment and the world (I follow the news to know what they are) and ask them if people are ever going to be able to resolve the overwhelming problems. There is no unity or cooperation between nations of the world or the 'will' to resolve these overwhelming issues - all look after their own interests and work 'independent' of each other.  Then I explain how, in the Bible, Jehovah is giving us the 'restoration project' of the earth.  Jehovah first identifies the ' root cause' of the problems, then provides a 'timeline of milestones' that has to be reached for the project to come to fruition.

There are many points in the timeline (prophesies that identify the timeline).  He chose Abraham (because he was willing to fully cooperate with god) and later we see that he chose the nation of Israel (who did not fully cooperate all of the time, but God still guided them to the point where the 'legal guarantee' arrived for our future - the ransom sacrifice of Jesus) which was provided.   Jesus has a genealogy of 4025 years (in this timeline given throughout the history of Israel) and he came exactly on time as predicted in the 70 week prophecy in Daniel. Timelines are very important to this ' project of Jehovah' - so we on earth can see if the plans of God are still on track. Most of the timeline has been completed - so we can have faith that the few things that still has to go into fulfillment - will come true on time.  God gives us all the necessary data we need for the timelines.  He even gives the number of years that the "nations" will be ruling before Jesus starts ruling invisibly in the heavens (1914) - and defines a time period after this (the time of the end) before the Day of Jehovah - the day and time which no-one knows - and is the time Holly is referring to in her notes above). 

Jehovah only intervened in mankind's affairs when his future plan for the earth was being jeopardized by the enemy.  He is allowing Satan to rule the earth to prove that mankind cannot rule the earth successfully when they choose to be independent from God and his moral standards.  Society will always be at war until the entire society of the earth is cooperating together in self-sacrificing love. (The secular world is now adopting humanism as its form of love - but this is not self-sacrificing love - the kind of love that will help all to love each other tenderly in equity and make sacrifices to restore the earth to paradise conditions - as predicted.) Eventually the entire society of mankind will give glory to God in the way that they are following the moral guidance of God and be living in tender love with each other and respect all life (animal and human).

It is therefore hard for me to speak to people like Holly who just goes to the letter of things and does not displaythis self-sacrificing love. She is not asking these questions to listen and learn. She has already made up her mind.

I tend to be too critical of egotistical people who always have to be right - even if they do not understand much.  I have also been a know-all - blow-all person.... but thanks to Jehovah I have learnt  to tame my own ego and it is not about winning an argument - but about sharing wonderful things about God and to strengthen each other....

In the past I have tended to get nasty with bitter opposes but thanks to people like you - who step in.... I can display the kind of love God wants us to share at all times.

[HollyW]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

God gives us all the necessary data we need for the timelines.  He even gives the number of years that the "nations" will be ruling before Jesus starts ruling invisibly in the heavens (1914) - and defines a time period after this (the time of the end) before the Day of Jehovah - the day and time which no-one knows - and is the time Holly is referring to in her notes above). 

Arauna, the scriptures in my OP speak directly to the timing of Jesus' Second coming, or Presence:

Matthew 24:36-39 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. for the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.  For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Mark 13:32-37 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.  It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.  Therefore, be on the alert---for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning---in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.  What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"

Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority.

I notice you've not commented on them yet.  Maybe you could do so now.

[Arauna]

Question to you -  to think about: Why did God give so many prophecies about the timing and arriving of the first coming and dedication of the messiah- and it was fulfilled right on time (70 week prophesy in Daniel).  Would he not also give to Daniel a second prophecy which shows when he would start ruling invisibly in heaven as indicated in Daniel 7: 13 + 14?  Must we ignore Daniel ? No, we must look at all the other scriptures which also discuss the coming, arriving and the standing up of the Christ, the 'coming' ('Parousia' / presence) and the final 'coming / 'erkhomenon' - when Jesus will have the important task of executing the great Day of God almighty. The day of God the almighty will take place at an unspecified day at the end of the 'Parousia' of Christ  - which would not come as a thief to those who are on the watch. 

Many will say - "there is the Christ or there is the Christ" in the time of the end - because they expect him to come back in flesh.  The bible clearly indicates in the chapter you are quoting from - that his "chosen" ones will not be mislead - because we do not expect him in the flesh.  Why did Jesus give signs to indicate that we are in the Parousia..... because it would be 'invisible' to the world. But the final destruction?  All will be aware of it because they will see his power in action!

The scripture I quoted above Rev 12: 6-12  clearly indicates that after Jesus has ''come' in power and glory' and taken the throne he will throw Satan out of heaven and there will still be a period of time when wickedness will escalate on earth (Parousia) - which brings us to the final 'coming' "erkhomenon' - the time when Jesus would 'come' with vengeance and executer of Jehovah's judgment - just as in the days of Noah there would be a time period before the final day.

Like a pregnant woman - those people with the right heart condition - can see the woman is pregnant and the signs of birth are eminent - they just do not know the exact hour and day.  Similarly,  we know that it is eminent - the woman is pregnant (we see all the signs of the Parousia) but we do not know the day and hour of the final judgment - just like in the 'days/ period' of Noah. 

The other scripture I mentioned above (Ps 110 ) shows that Jesus would be ruling amidst his enemies... Do the enemies know that he is already ruling? No - but his disciples do - because they are awake all the time.  The final destruction will not catch the true disciples asleep because they are ready all the time.  So - there must be different Greek words that were all translated as "coming".

And this is so: there are two words: parousia (presence) as used in Matt 24: 37 - 39 just like the time of Noah - which was many years when they did not listen to Noah and the word Parousia also means to be "alongside".

The other word used is: "erkhomenon"  in Matt 24:30 which talks of the son of man coming on the clouds with "power" and glory to exact justice on earth.  This is the time when the entire world will see evidence of the authority of the Christ - that he has been ruling amid his enemies.

In 1914 Jesus used his power to throw satan out of heaven and clean the heavens but after this the earth is escalating in wickedness.  This erkhomnon will be the 'coming' which cleanses the earth of wickedness.  Truly this kingdom has a universal job - cleaning heaven and earth - but not at the exact same time.

There is so much on this in the JW literature -  so familiarize yourself with it and read it alongside your bible.  Look up under the heading: the return of the Christ....

 

[HollyW]

  

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Question to you -  to think about: Why did God give so many prophecies about the timing and arriving of the first coming and dedication of the messiah- and it was fulfilled right on time (70 week prophesy in Daniel).  Would he not also give to Daniel a second prophecy which shows when he would start ruling invisibly in heaven as indicated in Daniel 7: 13 + 14?   

But then, by that same reasoning, the day at the end of the Christ's Presence would not be unspecified, would it.  If the beginning of Christ's 2nd coming can be calculated right down to the year and day from what God has revealed in the Bible, has not God also made the end calculable?  Or, perhaps your premise is at fault and God may reveal one thing but not another.

 

[Ann O'Maly]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Why did God give so many prophecies about the timing and arriving of the first coming and dedication of the messiah- and it was fulfilled right on time (70 week prophesy in Daniel).

*** w14 2/15 p. 27 Questions From Readers ***

"Could the first-century Jews have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at Daniel 9:24-27? While that possibility cannot be ruled out, it cannot be confirmed. The fact is that there were many conflicting interpretations of the 70 weeks in Jesus’ day, and none come close to our present understanding."

The application of the '70 weeks' prophecy to Jesus was a later Christian interpretation - not a Jewish one.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

The other scripture I mentioned above (Ps 110 ) shows that Jesus would be ruling amidst his enemies...

The 1st century Christians believed Jesus was already ruling amidst his enemies in their day, from as soon as Jesus ascended to heaven and sat down at his Father's right hand. - Acts 2:34-37; Eph. 1:20, 21; Heb. 10:12, 13; Rev. 3:21.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

And this is so: there are two words: parousia (presence) as used in Matt 24: 37 - 39 just like the time of Noah - which was many years when they did not listen to Noah and the word Parousia also means to be "alongside".

The other word used is: "erkhomenon"  in Matt 24:30 which talks of the son of man coming on the clouds with "power" and glory to exact justice on earth. 

A person has to 'arrive' or 'come' first in order to be 'present' or 'alongside.' One cannot be present without having first arrived.

Noah's contemporaries who were caught out by the Flood [literally] "did not know" when it would be, which is the whole point of Jesus likening those days to people not knowing the day and hour of Jesus' parousia.
 

[Ann O'Maly]

15 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

The ironic thing about Pastor Russell. He configured a scheme that was spot on with it’s relevance before it actually occurred.

Baloney. His and his successor's conclusions about the timing of Jesus' presence was retrospective. His ideas about 1914's future relevance in Bible prophecy were wrong. His 'Divine Plan' chronological scheme was all but abandoned after his death, with Rutherford eventually only retaining the date 1914, spiritualizing what were supposed to have been physical events (i.e. the Gentile governments being crushed to smithereens in Dan. 2:44 style), and making some new ill-fated predictions of his own.