Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

[JW Insider]

On 9/22/2016 at 7:24 PM, Anna said:

To me, their leaders are counterfeit Christians, and most of who follow them, or profess to be Christians are such in name only.

I just scrolled back through the thread to catch up on whether all the points in the original post were addressed. I don't really think they have been. On the point I just requoted, I only wanted to mention that it seems rather judgmental, and it does paint with a broad brush just as @HollyW already said, and it also seems to imply (as she said) a large part of the answer to your original question. In a potentially majority-Christian country such as the United States, you see the 1:400 ratio as a kind of "ideal" that implies (if God is not partial) that the entire world should ideally see something like a 1:400 ratio. That would be about 20,000,000 JWs spread more evenly across all the nations of the world.

I point out the "judgmental" side of this approach, because all such speculation ends up being judgmental. Perhaps C.T.Russell was a little less so with the initial idea that all Christians would go to heaven but only 144,000 of them would rule as kings as Christ's bride, and these were the only ones who really counted in his book. In his day, he felt that many of the 144,000 had already been chosen over the past 1,800 years. Yet, he was still only really trying to address the small number of remaining restorationist "age-to-come" and "adventist" types who would typically be expected to come from a group of 20,000 to 50,000 persons still reeling from the Miller failure, but who were thus prepared by it to be receptive to Barbour's "midnight cry." The "midnight cry" occurred about midway between the failure of William Miller's 1843/1844 date and the "closing of the doors of heaven" to that small group, expected in 1878, then 1881. This much smaller number were the only ones he was trying to reach in the Watch Tower publications and preaching. Russell went to his death believing that it was only this small remnant of a few thousand that he was directly addressing. If any Christian failed to make it into that final opportunity to be among the Bride of Christ, he allowed that it was possible for them to still go to heaven as all other Christians of all denominations could have done. The rest of mankind would survive Armageddon's chaos into an ever-improving earth, under heaven's reign, along with the resurrection of billions who had died in the past.

But back to the "judgmental" problem. Some JWs (on this forum, too) have given the idea that even very few JWs are true JWs. So perhaps the ratio only looks like 1:400 but is really ten times worse than that. This is judgmental. Some have allowed that people of "goodwill" in other religions might survive, but the best the Watchtower has done is tell us not to speculate about those persons. Questions of mental capacity, children, level of knowledge or to what extent persons have rejected the opportunity afforded them in this "generation" have come up, but are generally avoided in the publications.

Also, Jesus said that in matters of judging others, we should look to our ourselves and find the "2-by-4" in our own eye before trying to take the speck out of another's eye. The reason your statement struck me as inappropriate (though common) is because one could argue that most of the years for those who followed the Watch Tower publications were marked by false prophecy, the Russellite cult, and a real emphasis on the Great Pyramid. There was a specific attraction based on exactly the things Jesus told us not to follow. (Such as those who would try to use expressions like "the time is at hand" to make people think they had a handle on the times and seasons.)

So people might be just as correct (or just as judgmental) if they claimed that any Christian who followed Russell or Rutherford during the first half (or more) of this organization's existence were only following because they were Christians in name only, and their leaders were hypocrites.

On 9/23/2016 at 2:13 AM, Guest said:

It would make some sense if we take in account the Jesus' parable of the workers in the field (Mat 20:1-15).

"Guest" was making a different point, but what if it was really about the idea that a group (Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses) come in at the 11th hour of the day - relative to the 2,000 years since Jesus' began sending workers into the field? We come in as a kind of new group with new ideas that don't seem right to the long-standing religions that have been around for 1,500 years or 1,000 years or 500 years. But Jesus accepts our contribution, too.

[Evacuated]

Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved? (No offence intended here to @Anna who raised this "hoary old chestnut" ?)

This is such a hoighty-toighty topic. It appears to be rooted in the same kind of attitude displayed by 1st century, pre-Pentecost followers of Jesus and exemplified at Mark 14:29-30: "But Peter said to him: “Even if all the others are stumbled, I will not be.” ............Also, all the others began to say the same thing." 

We all know where that got them: "..they all abandoned him and fled." Mark 14:50

I can't think of anyone who deserved salvation more than Jesus himself and yet we are told that "During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear." Hebrews 5:7.

So, whilst we know that recognition of Jehovah, Jesus, adherence to the pattern of life exemplified by Jesus, as well as ensuring we "worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24) are all factors in  "being saved", the words from Paul's letter to the Hebrews, quoted above, should provide us with fuel for sober self-examination.

The religious designation "Jehovah's Witness" is a modern term coined from the words of Isaiah 43:10. Whilst the idea of Christians being witnesses of Jehovah precedes the year 1931 when those formerly known as "Bible Students" accepted the name as a formal designation, it is nevertheless a modern mission statement designating the identity of a group of people and their collective intent of purpose. It in no way was intended to serve as a talisman or token of salvation any more than any other name by which they had been called, even the 1st Century divinely provided designation,  "Christians". The history of misuse and misapplication of that designation needs no repetition here. Jesus's clear words at Matthew 7:21-23 should provide sufficient warning to any who would presume on 'salvation by association' with a name or organisation, devoid of the appropriate "fruits".

The term "Jehovah's Witnesses" serves to separate and identify a group of people. Of course there are responsibilities attached to any attempt to align oneself with the God of the Bible in such a clear, defined, and uncompromising manner. This accountability is much weightier for those who sincerely beleive the name to have been divinely provided. But the fact remains that nomenclature is no basis for salvation any more now than it ever has been in the history of those who would seek "righteousness and meekness" in an attempt to effect the probability of their concealement from "Jehovah's anger" (Zeph.2:3).

The most succinct official answer to this question is found here with an abundance of links to related topics:

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Gone Away said:

The most succinct official answer to this question is found here with an abundance of links to related topics:

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

That "succinct" answer is a perfect example of the "skirting" I referred to earlier:

• Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?

 

 

• No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27.

First of all the more generally correct answer is YES, not NO. The question was do Jehovah's Witnesses FEEL that they are the only people who will be saved? In my opinion, millions of them do feel exactly that way, whether or not this matches the official position. In cleaning out 50 years of my parents house for the last week I have read a lot of my deceased grandmother's correspondence with elders, pioneers, and good friends she had all over the world. I was struck by the way assemblies attended in many different nations were often summarized. These ranged from the 1950's up to about 2010. Included in so many of them were expressions like: "Isn't it great to be associated with the only people whom Jehovah will spare through this old system."

Also if we look at the exact wording of the succinct answer you referred to, notice that it never says that anyone other than Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved through Armageddon. The answer is given as "NO" for only two reasons. The first reason is because many non-JWs from centuries past will have an opportunity for salvation through the resurrection. Presumably they will become Jehovah's Witnesses during the 1,000 year reign as we also teach that we will teach them. I'm sure you have also heard convention speakers talking about how in the resurrection we will hear stories from faithful men and women of Bible times, but then we will have the opportunity to teach them what Jehovah has been doing with us.

The second reason for saying the answer is "NO" also speaks vaguely about who may survive Armageddon: "Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God." (It's the new motto for the old "Millions" campaign.) This also does not say specifically that any non-JWs may survive Armageddon. Most Witnesses apparently presume that this means that our preaching work may result in more non-JWs becoming JWs.

This brings up another point about the idea that something nearly miraculous is yet to be seen in countries like China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, India, etc. Expecting that something like this might have to happen first is counter to the idea that the end may come at any time like a thief in the night. The end could happen 5 minutes after you fall asleep tonight, or before I click "Submit Reply." But that couldn't be true if we need to see a miraculous new distribution of JWs around the world, first.

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

millions of them do feel exactly that way

Yes that is probably correct. Just as a similar number likely feel that even if others were to abandon their faith under test, they never will!

I, for one, am a Jehovah's Witness. That is what I put on official forms that ask what religious denomination do I belong to. But I for one do not believe that only those religiously designated as a "Jehovah's Witnesses" will survive Armageddon. Carrying the name of a religious group of people in this 21st Century does effect how I am viewed. For example, being termed "Jehovah's Witness" on, let's say, a variety of databases will have an effect on the way maybe medical professionals handle the management of my case, in some places. It will also have an entirely different effect on the way I am viewed and likely treated in a political/religious context in some other parts of the world.

But as for surviving the end of this system of things when Armageddon takes place, regardless of its timing or absence of expectation on my part? Well, I do not think what is written on my (so-called) "Blood card" is going to be any more relevant to my survival than the name and address tag on my pet dog's collar.

My survival of the coming cataclysmic end of this system of things will really depend on:

1. That I am actually alive when it occurs.

2. Whether the" judge of all the earth" and the "man who he has appointed" evaluate that I actually fit the symbolic criteria outlined at Rev. 7:14-15:" “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple;" " I do not see a modern day religious designation written there.

So, with regard to the religious designation of "Jehovah's Witness", adopted by a group of people seeking to distance themselves from the corrupt mass of Christian-flavoured religious slurry manufactured by Satans masterpiece of apostasy, Babylon the Great, it is just what it is, a religious designation.

However, I believe that those who will experience salvation through the end of this system will fall into the category of "witness" as described by the apostle Paul in Hebrews 11-12, in company with the one termed as the "faithful and true witness" at Rev. 3:14.

Now, I have made a judgement call that true witnesses of the potential calibre described above are indeed grouping together in association with those who are collectively termed "Jehovah's Witness" in this 21st century. There will be no need to identify a religious organisation in this way after Armageddon, but at present, if I want to continue developing the the spiritual identity as described symbolically at Rev.7:14-15, which will give me at least a shot at survival, then I am sticking with this easily identifiable group. And anyone I come in contact with I am advising to do the same. As for the outcome for those who are yet unaware of God's purposes with regard to this earth, then I will happily leave their prospects in the hands of one who "does not desire anyone to be destroyed, but desires all to attain to repentance." (2Pet3:9).

It is really, after all, due to a succession of miracles that any of us have come to know about Jehovah at all after the combined attempts of mighty forces to suppress the truth of God's Word for centuries. It would not be amiss for the Creator of heaven and earth to unleash a few more of these miracles before He finally calls time on this wicked and smugly selfish system of things. 

 

[Space Merchant]

@JW Insider In reality, there are those who do not really care about what the bible says. It is common in the EU, a whole lot in the West, US specifically, that those who go to any church, excluding the blind ones, for such ones do not know any better compared to their ignorant counterparts, only go there because they either:

Have nothing to do and only go there just because, at times just to avoid going to secular work and or other.

Go there just for a social club/gathering and do not really take into account of the bible. All they care about is getting people to join their inner circle and or if so and so lacks in a big circle of friends, they go to churches only for that, they do not have a care in the world for what the bible says, as for the church, they do not apply God's Laws whatsoever and are not as strict, which equals, more sin.

Go to, as they say, pick up girls, or the slang they use, chicks, the same can be said for the opposite sex, only go the for the guy who looks good and or has the biggest wallet, best job, etc., and at times, what is being discussed when they should be attempting to learn the bible, they, instead, speak of very immoral things in combination with doing bad things as well as drinking and or having immoral relations with someone in or out of the church. To add more fuel to the fire, such ones wear revealing and or inappropriate clothing, clearly seeking attention and or to be the center of attention, such ones do not even recognize that one has to be modest.

The people go to a church which uses the bible to defend polygamy, pedophilia, homosexuality, same sex-marriage, and a list of other things. Some will even try to say that homosexuality was never in the bible and will throw every verse they twist in counter you and defend their man made views that they apply to scripture. On the other side of the spectrum, you have hate preachers that will attack anyone who is clearly a born sinner, we know in the bible God is not a fan of homosexuality, but if we have a lesson to learn, we can learn from the people of whom Jonah taught about God, that people are willing to change if they find accurate truth, but this is not the case today, for hate preacher condemn any man that God will kill and torment them because of not knowing any better. For God is justice, the bible makes it clear such ones will be judged.

We also have those who believe that once saved, always saved, which is not what the bible teaches. Faith and Salvation is a hard fight to maintain, one cannot be saved and not do nothing at all, but such a thing is being professed in the churches.

People at times gain access and position inside a church in order to do ill-intent, as well as take advantage of the church and its members, men, women, children, pet animals even. Some, at times seek to have a powerful position in the church in order to be rude and act like a boss and be negative towards every member.

Pastors with guns, for they can shoot an unarmed person who is of little threat, one situation where a pastor, who shot the boyfriend of a woman, who was clearly angry of what he had found out about the pastor and his ex.

Then we have the prosperity preachers. They apply laws of the Levites by adding the tithe when Christians are not suppose to, for Christians can have free will offerings or donations, but not the tithe, this 10% money nonsense that the churches are applying.

The list goes on and on and no church in general out of the mainstream are applying lessons and structure of what the 1st century Christians have done nor do they apply the bible with seriousness. But should any man seeks truth outside of the mainstream, they are deemed foolish, cultist, fanatics, infidels, blasphemers, etc.

The sad thing is, such mainstreams do not realize, they gave themselves into Babylon and the religion of which is being put on a pedestal when gathering religious leaders of this world of all nations and yet people think of this as a big step, not realizing the danger that is very evident here.For this is the very reason, such ones, like myself, have an issue with mainstream Trinitarians.

Such is the very reason why Christianity is declining all over the world since 2015, it is so bad that Yoga and Bars are having to be invited into the church, which is very shameful.

God knows those who suffer for what is true, and he will gather his people, he knows who makes the effort and who is really trying to seek out what the bible says, for God knows who is for him.

That being said, it is easy to pick out the good apples and it is expected to stumbled upon spoiled apples from time to time.

For mentally and spiritually, this world is indeed blind when it comes to the Word of God, and when someone is telling the truth, they simply ignore it or remain ignorant and continue to roam with their heads down. History, especially to what we see in the bible, tends to repeat itself, only this time when something does happen, it will be the last time.

[JW Insider]

If I get a chance later today or tomorrow, I might move the conversation that was especially between @Space Merchant and @Jesus.defender under another topic. This way it will be easier to find later and will not bog down this particular topic: "Will only JWs be saved?" If either of you have a good title in mind for the topic after it is moved, just respond here and I'll keep it in mind when naming the moved topic.

[Space Merchant]

@JW Insider Thank you, if anything just call it Christendom Claims: True or False.

[JW Insider]

1 minute ago, Space Merchant said:

Thank you, if anything just call it Christendom Claims: True or False.

That was a better idea, because Cross and Hell were part of the discussion, too. But I had already jumped the gun and moved the conversation to an on-going discussion of Trinity here: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/55859-the-trinity-and-it’s-false-theology/

[Space Merchant]

@JW Insider Alright cool, whatever works.

[Anna]

On 6/21/2018 at 2:33 PM, JW Insider said:

On 9/22/2016 at 7:24 PM, Anna said:

To me, their leaders are counterfeit Christians, and most of who follow them, or profess to be Christians are such in name only.

I just scrolled back through the thread to catch up on whether all the points in the original post were addressed. I don't really think they have been. On the point I just requoted, I only wanted to mention that it seems rather judgmental, and it does paint with a broad brush just as @HollyW already said, and it also seems to imply (as she said) a large part of the answer to your original question. In a potentially majority-Christian country such as the United States, you see the 1:400 ratio as a kind of "ideal" that implies (if God is not partial) that the entire world should ideally see something like a 1:400 ratio. That would be about 20,000,000 JWs spread more evenly across all the nations of the world.

I point out the "judgmental" side of this approach, because all such speculation ends up being judgmental. Perhaps C.T.Russell was a little less so with the initial idea that all Christians would go to heaven but only 144,000 of them would rule as kings as Christ's bride, and these were the only ones who really counted in his book. In his day, he felt that many of the 144,000 had already been chosen over the past 1,800 years. Yet, he was still only really trying to address the small number of remaining restorationist "age-to-come" and "adventist" types who would typically be expected to come from a group of 20,000 to 50,000 persons still reeling from the Miller failure, but who were thus prepared by it to be receptive to Barbour's "midnight cry." The "midnight cry" occurred about midway between the failure of William Miller's 1843/1844 date and the "closing of the doors of heaven" to that small group, expected in 1878, then 1881. This much smaller number were the only ones he was trying to reach in the Watch Tower publications and preaching. Russell went to his death believing that it was only this small remnant of a few thousand that he was directly addressing. If any Christian failed to make it into that final opportunity to be among the Bride of Christ, he allowed that it was possible for them to still go to heaven as all other Christians of all denominations could have done. The rest of mankind would survive Armageddon's chaos into an ever-improving earth, under heaven's reign, along with the resurrection of billions who had died in the past.

But back to the "judgmental" problem. Some JWs (on this forum, too) have given the idea that even very few JWs are true JWs. So perhaps the ratio only looks like 1:400 but is really ten times worse than that. This is judgmental. Some have allowed that people of "goodwill" in other religions might survive, but the best the Watchtower has done is tell us not to speculate about those persons. Questions of mental capacity, children, level of knowledge or to what extent persons have rejected the opportunity afforded them in this "generation" have come up, but are generally avoided in the publications.

Also, Jesus said that in matters of judging others, we should look to our ourselves and find the "2-by-4" in our own eye before trying to take the speck out of another's eye. The reason your statement struck me as inappropriate (though common) is because one could argue that most of the years for those who followed the Watch Tower publications were marked by false prophecy, the Russellite cult, and a real emphasis on the Great Pyramid. There was a specific attraction based on exactly the things Jesus told us not to follow. (Such as those who would try to use expressions like "the time is at hand" to make people think they had a handle on the times and seasons.)

So people might be just as correct (or just as judgmental) if they claimed that any Christian who followed Russell or Rutherford during the first half (or more) of this organization's existence were only following because they were Christians in name only, and their leaders were hypocrites.

It’s been a while and I had already forgotten what this reply of mine was in answer to, so I had to scroll back as well.

I understand what you are getting at. You are right, the original post was not addressed if you are looking at it from that angle. When I posted that question it was really on the assumption that JWs are the one and only true religion.

In order to fairly asses that question in it's entirety it would be neccessary to establish first whether the Bible actually teaches that there is only one true religion. And more specifically, if it teaches that there is only one true “Christian” religion.  

I have noticed lately that there is a definitive trend among Christian religions that it’s not the religion that matters, but it’s the individual. I suppose people have recognized that organized religion (in this post I will assume we are talking about Christian religions only) has failed as a whole. People have become more and more aware that the churches, its parishioners and its leaders have failed to live up to their name.

I quote a thought from a Christian website which  summarizes this “problem” :

“In his letters to the first century church, the Apostle Paul commended each for excelling in the graces of God. Specifically, these first century churches were known for their faith, love, zeal, giving, knowledge, and intolerance for sin, as well as false doctrines. The first century church was united in spirit. Consequently, they were a conduit for the power of God as manifested in the miraculous signs and wonders performed through the apostles and for the apostles, in response to the prayers of the saints. The gospel of grace spread like wildfire, at tremendous cost to the early followers of Christ. The first century church was beset with persecution, torture, and martyrdom. In spite of this, Christian churches were being established throughout the Mediterranean region, Asia Minor, and into Europe.

Today's world is characterized by the last days events foretold by the Lord Jesus Christ in the twenty-fourth chapter of the Matthew's Gospel. Specifically, we are hearing of the "wars and rumors of wars," earthquakes, famines, and pestilences of which our Lord warned. It was foretold of the church in these last days, that (among many other things):

The "love of many" would "grow cold."

Many in the church would be "lovers of self" rather than lovers of God.

Many in the faith would be "offended."

The church would "have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof."

Last day Christians would have "itching" ears, would not "endure sound doctrine" and would have "many teachers."

In other words, the end times church (the organization) will include those who profess belief in Christ but who are, in fact, children of disobedience. The Lord Jesus Christ foretold of this reality in His parable of the "wheat and the tares."
Certainly, the early church had its problems, just as the church today. However, the early church was more diligent to identify and eradicate false doctrines than today's multi-denominational church. It was easier for the early church to discipline, or rid itself of those engaged in immoral activity. This could be because the early church was not as fragmented, or divided as the church of today. It is important to remember that, regardless of the times in which we live, every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is a dwelling place of the Holy Spirit of God. Every true believer is God's "building." While unity of the spirit in the local church is to be desired, Christ's Church (the organism) is not a visible building. There is an unseen church, comprised of Christ's followers, who remain true to the teachings of Christ and to the leading of His Holy Spirit. The unseen or invisible church excels in the graces of God, just as the early church did, despite the physical location of its members.  Christ's Church is not a building with programs. Christ's church is comprised of those who have a vibrant relationship with our risen Lord and Savior....... Christ's church remains alive and well".

So perhaps we should explore those ideas first? What are your thoughts on this?

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

In order to fairly asses that question in it's entirety is to establish first whether the Bible actually teaches that there is only one true religion. And more specifically, if it teaches that there is only one true “Christian” religion.  

I've shared my opinion that many of us (hopefully) associate with Jehovah's Witnesses, not because we think it's an automatic ticket to salvation, but because it provides an environment that best matches (as far as we know) what we would expect the first century congregation to look like in the twenty-first century. It provides the environment to do good for one another, spiritually encourage one another, give materially to one another, preach and teach people about God's kingdom, raise the spirits of the broken-hearted both inside and outside the congregation, live a moral life based on the principles of the Bible that provides a "witness" to the Bible's value and usefulness even in this modern age. It provides a social circle that allows our Christianity to flourish, but also allows us to see the warnings and pitfalls of our human condition. We see brothers and sister that we love dearly for their humility, talents, love of truth, love of God, and love of neighbor. We see brothers and sisters that we are concerned about for their contentiousness, presumptuousness, haughtiness, legalism. But all this is also what the first century saw: a range of qualities.

Many Witnesses associate because they think that associating really is the "ark of salvation" and that it is therefore an automatic ticket to salvation as long as they don't stray too far and can rush back under this "wing of protection" in case they are slacking off at the time that the "Peace and Security" cry gets convincingly loud enough. (Or some analogous announcement that seems like it's a last-minute sign to straighten up and fly right.) I've talked to enough young brothers and sisters, and my grown children have talked to enough brothers and sisters, that I know I can use the word "many" when I speak of those who think like this.

As far as Biblical reasons can help us see whether there is only one true religion, we know that there is only one true religion. But the Bible never says that there is one physical organization that embodies that one true religion. The true religion is looking after orphans and widows in their tribulation. The true religion is prioritizing love, justice, and mercy over rules of conduct, and rules of organizations. The true religion is the humble, loving attitude of our heart toward Jehovah and our neighbors, even our enemies. It has nothing to do with a showy display of prayer and process or an audience. Organizations require specific works; the true religion requires loving motivation based on faith.

Ideally, there could be a human organization, directed by God's spirit, that attracts all the people who practice that "one true religion." We believe we have found something close to that which is why we both associate with the same organization. But if we don't also clearly see the flaws, then we will begin to think of that organization as our salvation, which is blasphemy and idolatry.

Jesus himself said that if they are not against us they are for us. There are other senses in which those who are not for us are against us, but this does not negate that we should find the true meaning of the former. Jesus also said that wheat and weeds (tares) would be indistinguishable until the very end, judgment day. Jesus also (in Revelation 2 and 3) does not speak of a central governing committee that makes decisions about what is acceptable in a Christian congregation and what is not. Jesus speaks of holding each congregation separately accountable for the actions they take for and against various teachings and practices. And of course we have the example of Paul in Galatians 1 and 2, where he appears to demolish the entire idea of one central body of elders as the governors of their faith. In about the year 49 C.E. when most apostles were still alive and several of them still evidently operating out of one congregation in Jerusalem, it would have been very tempting to think of them as some kind of single governing body whose word and decisions would become the "rule" in all the worldwide brotherhood. But Paul indicated that this was a "foolish" mistake.

[Anna]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Many Witnesses associate because they think that associating really is the "ark of salvation" and that it is therefore an automatic ticket to salvation as long as they don't stray too far and can rush back under this "wing of protection" in case they are slacking off at the time that the "Peace and Security" cry gets convincingly loud enough. (Or some analogous announcement that seems like it's a last-minute sign to straighten up and fly right.) I've talked to enough young brothers and sisters, and my grown children have talked to enough brothers and sisters, that I know I can use the word "many" when I speak of those who think like this.

That is a shame.  A "people for God" or "ark of salvation" does have scriptural backing though. However, it's illogical to think that associating, on its own, would merit an automatic ticket to salvation. Surely they know that in the end each will render an account for themselves to God, individually?  I don't think the WT has ever taught that salvation is secured if you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses and associating with the org. only. Otherwise they wouldn't have to keep reminding us constantly with how to keep ourselves in God's love. We would just get baptized and that would be it. Pretty much like a lot of the "Christian" religions I know.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But the Bible never says that there is one physical organization that embodies that one true religion.

It doesn't in so many words but surely there are plenty of scriptural indications that this it does. And it follows a pattern from when God first chose a people for his name. It also stands to reason that it is necessary to be organized in order to preach effectively, to have united teachings, and to keep congregations clean. As far as I know Jehovah's Witnesses are the closest out of all the denominations to the original church established by Jesus. We don't need to make excuses like the above mentioned quote from the Christian website for why we do not keep unity and keep the congregations morally clean. I quote it again: " However, the early church was more diligent to identify and eradicate false doctrines than today's multi-denominational church. It was easier for the early church to discipline, or rid itself of those engaged in immoral activity. This could be because the early church was not as fragmented, or divided as the church of today".  What an excuse. 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus himself said that if they are not against us they are for us.

In context Jesus was talking about a man who had been expelling demons in his name, but not following him. The Insight book page1029 vol 2 says:

During this time the Law covenant was in force, by God’s will, and God through Jesus Christ had not yet inaugurated the new covenant and the beginning of the Christian congregation of called ones. Only from Pentecost of 33 C.E. onward, after Jesus by his sacrifice had brought about the removal of the Law, was it necessary for anyone serving in the name of Christ to associate with this congregation, the members of which were baptized into Christ. (Ac 2:38-42, 47; Ro 6:3) Then, instead of dealing with the fleshly nation of Israel as he had done until that time, God recognized the Christian congregation as his “holy nation.”—1Pe 2:9; 1Co 12:13.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus also said that wheat and weeds (tares) would be indistinguishable until the very end, judgment day.

This is also mentioned in the quote I state in my post: "In other words, the end times church (the organization) will include those who profess belief in Christ but who are, in fact, children of disobedience. The Lord Jesus Christ foretold of this reality in His parable of the "wheat and the tares."  You know that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the separation started happening after Russell and his associates began the restoration "movement".  Although not perfect, (as you mentioned) fundamental truths from the Bible were re-introduced on a much larger scale than had ever been done before, since apostasy first infiltrated the 1st century Christian congregation. If we were to believe that, then it would lend support to the belief that an only true church would be established, and it would be in the last days. If not, then as the quote states, true and false Christians would be dispersed throughout all of Christendoms denominations. I see a problem with that though. Christendom's denominations are stuck in a rut of beliefs which were introduced during the said apostasy. Their members, (lets assume we are talking about wheat like members) although believing they are true to Christs teachings, are in fact believing the lie. Can God and Jesus accept falsehoods that have been promulgated throughout centuries and have smeared their names? Can they tolerate the evil that has been done in their names? Although Russell made some embarrassing mistakes, we did not stay with those. 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

does not speak of a central governing committee that makes decisions about what is acceptable in a Christian congregation and what is not. Jesus speaks of holding each congregation separately accountable for the actions they take for and against various teachings and practices. And of course we have the example of Paul in Galatians 1 and 2, where he appears to demolish the entire idea of one central body of elders as the governors of their faith. In about the year 49 C.E. when most apostles were still alive and several of them still evidently operating out of one congregation in Jerusalem, it would have been very tempting to think of them as some kind of single governing body whose word and decisions would become the "rule" in all the worldwide brotherhood. But Paul indicated that this was a "foolish" mistake.

Well the central governing body is Christ himself, he said so. And he also established what was acceptable in a Christian congregation and what was not and had it recorded for us in the Hebrew scriptures. Really, having a central human governing body merely makes practical sense for us humans living on earth. Providing of course this central governing body adheres closely to the scriptures and Christ, having Christ as their head. It prevents the fragmentation that is spoken about in the quote, excusing the non upholding of Christ's standards. I cannot imagine how else this could be done. In fact I can see how it fails if there is no central governing body that clearly adheres to the scriptures and Christ, I can see it in Christendom, and their own quote (above) confirms this. We do not expect this human governing body (who are following Christ) to get everything right, but we do expect to see good results, not just in individuals but as an organization on the whole. We do not see these results in Christendom's denominations. I can give many examples. I am not denying there are good people among them that try to live by Bible standards, and conversely I do not deny that there are JWs who live a double life. But I do believe that Jehovah does have a people for his name, and that these people are not scattered among various denominations as wheat, but the wheat has been gathered and continues to be gathered into one worldwide congregation.