I do hear occasionally on this forum, the expression of, (oh dear it's gone now), I'll say Basic beliefs, Foundation beliefs, of Jehovah's Witnesses.
My point being, when were those basic foundations started ? Yes we have Russell and Rutherford et al. So who decided what was what and when ?
We have things like 'hell fire' eternal damnation' ' soul in continual punishment' etc. But who basically found the truth from God's word about 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ?
Then we have the 'resurrection of the dead', those being split into heavenly and earthly. Who decided these things from scriptures ? And when ?
It would probably take me 10 years, which I probably do not have left, to research all the things I wish to know.
So here is a question. From 1960, what new serious Bible knowledge do we have from those whom regard themselves as the F&DS or top of the tree ?
What have they given to the congregation that is of extreme importance ? BUT, more importantly what have they given that they haven't changed since giving it ?
So we've lost the 7,000 year creative days. We've lost Armageddon in 1975, We've lost no blood / replaced with blood fractions. We've lost the Superior Authorities as God and Christ, and probably lots more. BUT what important beliefs have we gained since 1960 ? What IMPORTANT SCRIPTURAL input have those at the top made since 1960 ?
Point 1. I really do laugh at this term "Only game in town" As I've said before the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS would have said that serving God by obeying THEM and the Mosaic Law, was the only game in town. Jesus however proved those Religious leaders to be wrong. Jesus and his disciples carried over the good points of the Mosaic Law and discarded the bits no longer needed. (Such as animal sacrifices, circumcision etc).
Russell & Co came out of former religions. I presume they must have carried over some good points from those former religions, then made adjustments or changed doctrines.
So why would it not be possible for people that have left the JW Org to form a new religion ? Carrying over the good and disposing of the bad, of which there seems to be plenty....
I'm not saying it will happen but it does dispose of this idea of 'the only game in town' brainwashing. JW's seem to be taught that there cannot be anything else ever. What if Russell had believed that, the Bible Students would have never been formed.
Point 2. The 'Truth' / JW Org.
As I read more and more on here I am finding out that the Governing Body / Writing Dept' / Legal Dept' et al, have deliberately told many lies.
The latest I'm reading (on a new topic on here) but the info stems back a while, seems to contain information whereby the 'Org' / those in charge at the time, implied, that children cannot get baptised, and that blood transfusions were acceptable to the Organisation. It seems that this was written in order to get favours from a certain government.
Both of those things are lies but seem to be deliberately used for some form of dishonest gain.
Then of course we have lawyers telling lies in court about shunning.
And C.S.A court cases have proved that elders and others have deliberately lied. And the American 'section' of the JW Org deliberately withholding information regarding such matters.
Link this to misuse of scriptures, such as, Superior Authorities, which deliberately took away people's conscience / freedom of choice, in WW2.
And I'm sure people here can come up with lots more examples of lies, deliberate wrongdoing, mistakes, misinterpretations, 'new light' corrections et al.
Why am i writing all this ? Well I am proving two points.
1. If it's your 'only game in town' then it's not a good one.
2. That calling it 'The Truth' is totally deceptive.
I do not think you would like it if I gave you a meal that was three quarters yummy, but a quarter poison. The poison might well contaminate the good food !
So, saying that the Org / GB are three quarters right does not help.
By Srecko Sostar
GB claims how they are not "inspired". They also claim that the Organization is "spirit-guided". There is also an idea that God has always had his organization on Earth, the first being the Old Nation of Israel, and then First Assembly at the time of the Apostles, and after long centuries of darkness organization appeared again in 1879 as WT Society. So, we have three organizations in three time periods.
Who has guided, led these organizations? We see that organizations were guided by people. The first was Moses, then the Judges and Prophets, the Kings, and then the Apostles and today is The GB. According to the present claims of this modern organization of God, it is logical to conclude that both of the previous two organizations had been guided by God by the same principles too, meaning, that no inspirational/uninspired people were at the forefront of a spirit-guided organization.
Which tools are used to run today's organization? Thousands and thousands of pages of written text and public and private talks. All of these published texts and speeches were/are not "inspired", in fact, they presented many erroneous teachings and instructions, in the face of claims, that the organization is/was spiritually driven at the same time. So we have a God's spirit-guided organization that teaches the wrong things.
What does this have to do with past God's organizations? In the past, members of those two perished Organizations also wrote texts and held public and private speeches. Did those texts and the words been "inspired". If we judge according to today's GB teachings and the way how God, supposedly, leads a modern organization, we could rightly say that, how past leaders were not "inspired" when writing and gave speech. Because God has no need to "inspire" imperfect servants when He already has "spirit guided organization" :))
What is "inspired" in that, if someone had wrote what he has seen or heard during her life? Or if they write down their memories after a few years after the event? Most of the biblical text is precisely this - writing what someone saw and heard personally or that writing came through the oral tradition, something that other people have seen, heard, and spoken in some period of time. Only in exceptional cases, the authors of certain parts of the script, claimed that the instructions/revelations/prophecy were received through dreams, visions or God or angel directly addressed them. So, for a very small part of the text in the Bible, we can say that it is "inspired" by divine supernatural power. The vast majority of the text in the Bible is actually a retelling of the events that have been experienced - either from oneself or from other people. And for such, there is no need for extra "inspiration", but a good memory of those who recount the event and a good memory of the one who later writes it.
To bring claim that God, with his spirit, has led each of these three organizations, but that only the Israeli representatives (and writers) and representatives of the 1st Assembly (and the writers) had "inspired" directly with His spirit to make the written and spoken content, but how God changed his mind in the 19th century and gave up from doing the same way of managing his organization, it seems strange. Why would God be inconsistent with his principle of how to lead his earthly organizations? Why would God "inspire" Moses and the John (and all the rest between) to speak and write, but today he does not want to "inspire" his Anointed Representatives who sitting in GB? Was theirs time more difficult than today? Do not we live in the end time when all is much worst than before? :)))
If JW members considers that it is quite right and normal for God to lead his organization through "not inspired" texts of today's "servants of God" whose "research and knowledge was multiplied" and become far greater, clearer and safer because of more and more "Brighter Lights" that is far more advanced than before, of all what previous generations of God's servants knew and understand, then it is strange that today's texts and public speeches are so inaccurate and unsafe and need to be continually changed and corrected.
From this WTJWORG idea of how God has kept his earthly organization in continuity since Moses' time, it is not difficult to doubt the accuracy of the texts that people have collected and incorporated into a single book, the Bible. In fact, if today's WT Society (WT is equal to God's Organization) texts contain both, accurate and incorrect things, then we could assume that the old records, "publications" and "public and private talk" of Old Time Organizations, in their content were subject to the influence of the human factor too. The idea may seem strange and impossible (because "God with the spirit" leads his organizations) but that not give guaranties that such Organizations will not End Up in Some Form of Slavery (to inside and/or to outside Masters). Recall yourself how had ended previous 2 God's Organizations.
But what do you think that after 1 or 2 thousands of years from now, when we all become old dust and ashes, someone came up with the idea of choosing certain WT Society texts and create a modern "Bible" for JW?
By James Thomas Rook Jr.
I realize there are many reasons to go to an Assembly, or Convention, and when my children were living at home they would go to others' conventions for a variety of reasons, as well as their own.
I would always ask them when they returned home "What did you learn that was new?" . This was important to me as I had to work long hours to afford to finance their explorations and socialization, which I thought was important ... but I still expected them to learn something new ... and since I was paying for their travels, to tell me what was going on.
Generally, attendance to an out of town Convention nearby would cost about $200 a day, times three days, so that would be $600.
Now that I am retired, and my income has been cut by about 80%, it's even MORE important to me to want to get good value for the time and money I would be spending for my wife and I to spend three days, traveling out of town, to learn something of lasting value .... something worth at least three days of our time, which is painfully obviously shorter, and the what is now considerable effort and considerable expense.
In Engineering it's important that the "Law of diminishing returns" be observed so that you do not go physically, mentally or emotionally bankrupt.
Perhaps I am just asking for some encouragement that the effort is worth the cost and effort, and that the benefit is worth it, so if I may ask ......
WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?
By Srecko Sostar
Inspired ....spirit-driven.... spirit-guided.....motivated.....to have spirit of....lead up by spirit....to feel that spirit leads us ..... spirit impelled him .... he came in the spirit....sent out by the spirit....spirit did not permit them.....bound by the spirit...he was in the spirit....carried him away in the spirit... and many more other phrases in the Bible.
Why JW's mostly, generally think that "inspiration" is action reserved only to JHVH and Jesus or devil and demons?
"Inspiration" is state/condition of some person soul, mind and emotions. The biblical / religious state of inspiration comes mainly out of the will of the people. But do you think how this is something that can be achieved/put on/force upon only by the actions of superhuman powers?
JW's are very occupied with their religion in own life and have specific relationship to this word and have specific (organizational) understanding of the concept about this special word - inspired. They think, I think that they do think :)), about this word only in religious sense and consider how it is about or only about some sort of divinity or divine holiness (or devil evil) in background.
Because they attach great importance to this word in only one direction, they forget that there is also a very powerful influence of another force. It's the spirit of man. JW's must recall themselves more often that people are created on the image of God. And that all people in themselves have a strong spirit (of divine source by birth and genetically inherited). This human spirit is powerful and can inspire other people (earthly spirits) around them. You, as individual can be inspired by people around you or by people about whom you hear about, you are watching, you read about.
Also it is interesting how some other things can inspire people. For example; nature, music, poetry, stories, events, animals, imagination.
Please, join to this topic and give, express your thoughts. Let your spirit free and let's inspire others :)))
Voici la vidéo "Dieu accepte-t-il toutes les religions ?" en 10 langues.
Il faut utiliser VLC pour la visualiser et utiliser l'option Audio pour sélectionner la langue (Anglais, Arabe ……). Par défaut c'est le français qui est actif.
Bonne utilisation dans le service pour Jéhovah.
Toutes Religions Bonnes 3,55 min (10).mkv
By JOHN BUTLER
Luke 10 v 21 In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.
This seems to show that 'higher education' was not needed to learn, understand and teach, the truth from God, at that time.
It seems to be a well know thing within the JW Org and by people outside of same, that JW's are 'told' not to aim for higher education. I say told, although some will say strongly advised, with a possible caution of being disfellowshipped.
Now I've noticed on here recently that deep conversation about many things has been and is taking place. Politics earthwide. religious beliefs earthwide and the latest thing seems to be Evolution (from a very deep standpoint ). ( These things were never taught to me at school. )
I left school at 15 years old, as soon as I was able, for reasons previously mentioned. Here in UK now teenagers have to remain in education until they are 18. The three years from 15 to 18 seem to me to be almost 'higher education', but compulsory. How much they learn at school now I've no idea.
My feelings are, and yes ok i cannot put proof to these feelings, but, my feelings are, that all forms of higher education are advised against by the GB and the JW Org. Some of you may have some proof of this in writing. So, where does this leave JW's ?
If a young person leaves school to go into full time 'service' ministry, they do not get a higher education. Their 'basic' education may have been just that, very basic. They are then not 'qualified' to talk to others on a higher education level, and this might even be to the point of not understanding such things as are being discussed on here lately.
( Much of what is being discussed leaves me miles behind. I'm a very simple person. Plus at 69 I forget more than i learn. Yes I do write lots of notes and have books for recording different things, but the mind boggles. )
With respect for those I knew and loved in the past, within my ex congregation, many of them were 'simple country folk'. And I think Tom said about not having the time or inclination to do research online or or otherwise. So let us go back to the scripture at the top.
So many questions. Does God reveal more to those of a lesser education ? Is higher education and greater knowledge a disadvantage when wanting to serve God properly?
Or is it that those of higher education are too stubborn to learn God's way ? Too proud maybe ?
There are many things that the Bible doesn't tell us. is that deliberate ? Does God want to keep it simple for us ? So, should we pursue more knowledge about worldly things ?
A problem may occur when talking to others about God, in that they may have more knowledge on a certain subject than we do and therefore believe something different. Should we then educate ourselves to their level on the same subject, or just pass them by ? Bearing in mind the scripture at the top of this page.
There has to be a balance of course. But my feelings are that the GB would like JW's to be educated only by the Watchtower studies and by the 'workbook' evening meeting studies. And of course by personal Bible reading. But do JW's do as they are told in this respect or do a lot of them 'educate themselves', or take further education elsewhere ?
via .ORGWorld News
Yesterday the final (4th) installment of the 2018 volume of Journal of Biblical Literature was published. Among the articles in it is a new manuscript of the Gospel of John, dating to the third to fourth centuries. The manuscript is scrappy, as these things often are, a few verses from the end of chapter 1 and the beginning of chapter 2. On the back is a fragment of an unknown early Christian text. An rare instance of the word "God" in Greek, not in nomen sacrum form, but fully written out is one of the interesting findings in it.
For those interested in reading the article, here it is.
Willoughby John-JBL 2018.4.pdf
By Bible Speaks
How did you learn the Truth?
I was raised in the Truth. ?
By JOHN BUTLER
"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"
2 Timothy 3 v 16
Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?
The 2nd book of Timothy was written 65 C.E. However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.
So we have two points, 1. The writings were not complete when Paul wrote that information. 2, The Bible had not been constructed so no idea would have been formed as to what the Bible would contain.
Were there other writings ? Would they be considered as Scripture?
It seems that Paul was inspired to write that "All scripture is inspired.... "
By Bible Speaks
“Send out your light and your truth. May these themselves lead me.” Psalm 43:3. JEHOVAH is very considerate in the way he makes his purposes known to his servants. Instead of revealing the truth all at once in one blinding flash of light, he enlightens us progressively. Our trek along life’s pathway might be compared to a walk that a hiker takes down a long trail. He starts out early in the morning and sees little. As the sun begins to rise slowly over the horizon, the hiker is able to distinguish a few features of his surroundings. The rest he sees in hazy outline. But as the sun continues its ascent, he can see farther and farther into the distance. So it is with the spiritual light that God provides. He allows us to discern a few things at a time. God’s Son, Jesus Christ, provided spiritual enlightenment in a similar manner. Let us learn how Jehovah enlightened his people in ancient times and how he does so today.
By Srecko Sostar
Confusing and controversial ideas and perceptions we can find about God, life and death, feelings, acts/deeds of human and gods.
HOW GOD FEELS ABOUT LIFE
3. What did Jehovah do when Cain killed Abel?
3 The Bible teaches us that our life and the lives of other people are precious to Jehovah. For example, when Cain—Adam and Eve’s son—was very angry with his younger brother Abel, Jehovah warned Cain that he needed to control his anger. But Cain didn’t listen, and he became so angry that he “assaulted his brother Abel and killed him.” (Genesis 4:3-8) Jehovah punished Cain for murdering Abel. (Genesis 4:9-11) So anger and hatred are dangerous because they can make us become violent or cruel. A person who is like that cannot have everlasting life. (Read1 John 3:15.) To please Jehovah, we must learn to love all people.—1 John 3:11, 12. - https://www.jw.org/ase/publications/books/bible-study/respect-gods-gift-of-life-blood/
On other side we can find this in Bible, directly as words inspired to be written by Almighty God.
7 Remember, O Jehovah,What the Eʹdom·ites said on the day Jerusalem fell:“Tear it down! Tear it down to its foundations!”+
8 O daughter of Babylon, who is soon to be devastated,+Happy will be the one who rewards you With the treatment you inflicted on us.+
9 Happy will be the one who seizes your children And dashes them against the rocks.+ - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/psalms/137/
Was the Bible written and compiled for everyone to understand fully or only for a 'chosen few' to fully understandBy JOHN BUTLER
I have always wondered if the Bible is for 'all of us' to understand fully, or if it's only for a chosen few to fully understand.
I don't mean is it just for one 'religion' to understand, I mean is it just for say 'an anointed group of people to understand'?
Jesus spoke in illustrations to the people, but the disciples asked Jesus what the illustrations meant. Then Jesus would explain the illustration to them fully.
Jesus told his disciples that 'to them the sacred secrets would be revealed' but that the crowd would not get the meaning of such things.
It was also that after Jesus was resurrected he opened the eyes of his disciples / apostles so that they began to fully understand all things.
For my part I would never expect to fully understand God's word the Bible. A lot of it is straight forward of course, and easy to comprehend.
But I think a lot of it is 'in deep code' so to speak, only fully understood by those that Jehovah chooses..
It still seems strange to me, but it would be a separate topic, that God allows it to be so difficult for people to find any truth amongst the huge amount of lies in 'religion'.
However, in my opinion, there has to be a 'group of humans' 'anointed people' that do have some direct contact with God, through Jesus Christ.
We no longer have 'miracles' being done in Christ's name, so it is difficult to know exactly who the 'chosen ones' are.
If there was a 'body of people' that could prove that they had God's approval and God's holy spirit, that would make life much easier.
However when those that say they are chosen either make mistakes or tell lies about the meaning of scripture, and then their predictions fail, then they seem to prove themselves false or without God's guidance.
So we go back to square one. Is there really a 'body of people' being truly guided and upbuilt by God's holy spirit at this time ?
Is the Bible and it's prophecies being fully opened up to such ones ?
By Srecko Sostar
"clear, pure water of truth" ?? ...and famous question that can be hear from platform and in witnessing "Would you drink water from a glass with just one drop of poison in it?"
Water That Leads to Life
..."Jehovah’s Witnesses invite you to taste the pure waters of truth." .....
[Picture on page 9]
"You can find the ‘waters of truth’ at your local Kingdom Hall"
By Jack Ryan
In paragraph 9 of this weeks Watchtower it was talking about how children’s comments at the meetings can prompt newly interested ones to recognise the ring of truth.
I donÂ’t recall ever hearing it referred to as the ring of truth before. Is this a new phrase theyÂ’re going to try and get everybody using along the lines of, the truth, the brotherhood, this wicked system of things, etc etc.
By Jack Ryan
CHRIST-MASS is a central calendar observance of the Roman Mass. A practice started out of intense anti-Semitic hatred of Jews, openly confessed by the Nicene Council, and created as a substitute for the Passover Seder commanded by the REAL CHRIST.
The real Christ admittedly never had anything to do with a Roman Mass and not only observed the Seder meal, but commanded his disciples to do so as well.
The Mass, established as a counter to the Passover, after which [though celebrated by followers of Christ for centuries] was actually outlawed as a crime against the state of Rome.
The Mass is the ritualistic killing of an enemy of Rome at Saturnalia, and it's observance is STILL practiced as the killing of Christ to this day.
CHRIST-MASS is actually not "celebrating his birth". It is "celebrating" his execution Rome itself conducted, and scapegoated Jews on behalf of, in a doctrine called "blood liable". It was also the official institutional rejection by Rome, of the very blood and body of THE REAL CHRIST who was Jewish, and in form, if not letter, the New Testament version of the "Abomination of Desolation".
The actual CHRIST-MASS itself is the cloaking of the high holy day of the Roman Empire, THE SOLAR-MASS, patterned ritualistically as a form of magic, for the purpose of Imperial Emperor worship
THE MASS OF CHRIST-MASS
- Lukas Nkhoma
By Queen Esther
THE TRUTHÂ ABOUTÂ CHRISTMAS......
The year was 1928, when Jehovah's people came to understand the God-dishonoring roots of Christmas. Since then, the pagan roots of Christmas customs have become general public knowledge..... but few people have made changes in their way of life as a result. But, Jehovah's Witnesses are always willing to make the needed changes in order to become more acceptable as servants of Jehovah God.
When shown that celebrating the birth of Jesus had actually become of greater interest to people than the ransom provided by his death; that the revelry of the holiday and the spirit in which many gifts were given did not honor God;Â that the magi whose gift-giving was being imitated were actually demon-inspired astrologers;Â that parents set an example for their children in lying by what they told them about Santa Claus;Â thatÂ "St. Nicholas"
(Santa Claus) was admittedly another name for Satan the Devil himself;Â and that such festivals were, as acknowledgedÂ by Cardinal Newman in his "Essay on the development of Christian Doctrine" were "the very instruments and appendages of demon-worship"Â the church had adopted....Â When made aware of these things, Jehovah's Witnesses promptly and permanently ceased having any part inÂ ChristmasÂ celebrations.
Jehovah's Witnesses do have good times with their family and friends. But, they do not participate in holidays and celebrations that are linked with pagan gods (as is true of such holidays as Easter, New Year's Day,Â May Day and Mother's day).Â Read, 2.Cor. 6:14-17.Â Like the early Christians,Â Jehovah's Witnesses do not even celebrate birthdays. They also respectfully refrain from sharing in national holidays, that memorialize political or military events and also refrain from giving worshipful honor to national heroes.
BECAUSEÂ JEHOVAH'SÂ WITNESSESÂ AREÂ NOÂ PARTÂ OFÂ THEÂ WORLD !
Reference, Proclaims Book,Â pagesÂ 198-200....
( byÂ BrotherÂ Roger B. Elder )Â Â Â ThankÂ youÂ BrotherÂ Elder !
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