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ComfortMyPeople

Do you want to know the date of Armageddon?

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An unexpected visit

Characters: Angel (A) You (Y) Narrator (N)

N- Imagine that an angel visits you today. He wakes you up in the middle of the night and says:

A- Jehovah granted me choose one of his servants to inform Armageddon’s date, and I’ve chosen to you.

Y- Wonderful! What a privileged man I am! When will it be?

A- January 1, 2025. Now, I’m going to give further information about this date of capital importance

Y- Errr, excuse me angel, thanks for this marvelous information, but my alarm clock is set at 5 AM, and I wish to sleep. Tomorrow I will have a hard day and I need to feel awake.

A- What a lack of appreciation! If only I had known!

N- The angel, sorrowful and turning its back on you, is ready to depart.

Y- Please angel, don’t feel bad. It remains 8 years. I have no savings to live without my secular work. Next month my wife has a surgery, and also I need to ponder the education of my children. You aren’t going to think I take my children off from the school all these 8 years!

 A- I think if you were more spiritual…

Y- One moment, I’ve just applied for the pioneer next month, and with my collaboration my wife is going to start the regular next September. What’s wrong with me!

A- And what’re your plans for next holidays? Now you know for sure the Date! Would not you rather dedicate it to preach?

N- The angel a little bitter, you a little worried.

Y- Well… perhaps you’re right… one moment!

A- Yes

Y- The brothers at Bethel, missionaries and traveling overseers, do you think they are, in general, spirituals?

A- Of course!

Y- And don’t have they fully conscience of the closeness of the end?

A- Yes, I think so

Y- And, don’t they enjoy of their holidays these years?

A- Well, I believe this, yes.

Y- Look. If you only had said to me this date is, let’s say, is in a few months, perhaps I could have made some arrangements. But believe me, dear angel, I love Jehovah and I’m trying make my most every day, without any date in consideration.

N- And they both say goodbye with affection

 

Abraham’s example

Some emphasis added: (Genesis 12:1-4) “And Jehovah said to A′bram: “Go out from your land and away from your relatives and from the house of your father to the land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great, and you will become a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who calls down evil on you, and all the families of the ground will certainly be blessed by means of you.” 4 So A′bram went just as Jehovah had told him, and Lot went with him. A′bram was 75 years old when he left Ha′ran.”

What would be your reaction if someone promises YOU all these things? Would it not be logical to expect the fulfillment of these words in your own life? Let’s continue with Abraham.

Some emphasis added: (Genesis 13:14-18) “Jehovah said to A′bram, after Lot had separated from him: “Raise your eyes, please, and look from the place where you are, to the north and south, east and west, 15 because all the land that you see, I will give to you and your offspring as a lasting possession. 16 And I will make your offspring like the dust particles of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust particles of the earth, then your offspring could be counted. 17 Get up, travel through the length and breadth of the land, for to you I am going to give it.” 18 So A′bram continued to live in tents”

Again, would it not be logical to suppose for Abraham to think he will receive these rewards during the span of his life?

Now, some years after, about ten perhaps, these words happen.

Again, emphasis added: (Genesis 15:13-16) “Then He said to A′bram: “Know for certain that your offspring will be foreigners in a land not theirs and that the people there will enslave them and afflict them for 400 years. 14 But I will judge the nation they will serve, and after that they will go out with many goods. 15 As for you, you will go to your forefathers in peace; you will be buried at a good old age. 16 But they will return here in the fourth generation…”

“What? What does this mean? It was assumed that I was going to get your promises in my life, and now, you’re going to say me that I’m going to die, and my reward is postponed until a very distant future, for some remote descendants.” Perhaps no one between us find this hypothetic answer odd or rare, but did Abraham felt deceived? Well, the rest of his life, very known for all of us offers a clear answer.

Conclusion

Did Abraham need date information to serve God with all his soul? No. Why? Because he simple loved God. And here I am, like all of you. Serving to Jehovah decades after our thoughts about when the end should come.  Because our main motivation is, simply, love.

What I’m trying to say with the little story about the angel visiting at night and the account about some passages regarding Abraham’s life is the danger of getting quickly excited with some developments, in the world or in God’s people. When I listen to some brother saying something like “look at the news today… China, Middle East, etc., the end is near” I always answer, yes, you’re right, but I also thought to myself “the same I believed when I was a child.” These recursive ideas bother me, because always lead to disappointment. I try to share the attitude of Abraham, attempting to serve Jehovah till the end of my days with all my soul.

 

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5 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

What I’m trying to say with the little story about the angel visiting at night and the account about some passages regarding Abraham’s life is the danger of getting quickly excited with some developments, in the world or in God’s people. When I listen to some brother saying something like “look at the news today… China, Middle East, etc., the end is near” I always answer, yes, you’re right, but I also thought to myself “the same I believed when I was a child.” These recursive ideas bother me, because always lead to disappointment. I try to share the attitude of Abraham, attempting to serve Jehovah till the end of my days with all my soul.

This is why I really love the sentiments of this quote a father once said to his daughter (It was in one of the WT)

"Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your life time, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

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12 hours ago, Anna said:

This is why I really love the sentiments of this quote a father once said to his daughter (It was in one of the WT)

"Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your life time, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

Yes, you're right, Anna, I perfectly remember this wise advise. Thanks for adding!

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"Did Abraham need date information to serve God with all his soul? No. Why? Because he simple loved God. And here I am, like all of you. Serving to Jehovah decades after our thoughts about when the end should come.  Because our main motivation is, simply, love."

==

Agree that love for Jehovah is the key.  I we hope to enjoy life under the Kingdom we will have to see things Jehovah's way and show undying love for him and his way of doing things.   In the new system love is what will matter not time.

Notice that the end was imminent two thousand years ago as well, and the Christians then worked diligently to preach and to have godly conduct because they loved Jehovah, his Son and they loved people.  They covered the then-known world with their preaching.  If we are enjoying our service we would not be clock watchers.  I think the answers are in this chapter of Second Peter. (2 Peter 3:7-18   and Hebrews chapter 11.)

." 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people

. 8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

9 Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

(Jehovah's actions are not limited by our short lifespans.  He is not slow - he will be on time. He wants us to help others and enjoy what we are doing to warn others.  We need to work on our own weaknesses as well.)

10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.

(The end is necessary and is sure. As Jesus said at Matthew 24:36 - the day will not be disclosed - it will come as a thief - the Bible said the angels do not know either.)

11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion,

12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat!

13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.

(First century Christians urgently worked on their weaknesses and pursued spiritual things zealously as though the end was coming the next day. We have to do the same - we who are 2,000 years nearer to it.)

15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him,

(They used to time for their own benefit - to have their deeds fully performed before God [Rev 3:2] instead of whining about time.)

16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard so that you may not be led astray with them by the error of the lawless people and fall from your own steadfastness.

(As in the first century, some things would be hard to understand but we need not be daunted or be led astray.  Many of God's servants in the past did not fully understand all of his will  but they were loyal and Jehovah loved them and assured them of his approval - e.g. Job, Daniel. Jehovah told Satan there was no one like Job in all the earth; after his many tests, he was blessed with long life and restored offspring and riches, and was assured of the resurrection. [ Job1:8 ;14:4,15];  Daniel was told he was loved (desirable/precious) and assured that he would stand up (be resurrected) at the end of the days.  No date was given. [ Dan 9:23;12:13])

18 No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

(They served God with eternity in view.)

Jehovah is all-wise and he knows what He is doing. No one can check his hand. Abraham did not die disgruntled - he died happy looking forward to a permanent place in earthly realms of God's Kingdom.  He had love and he had strong faith; he later was called the father of all having faith. The things hoped for will be realized but we will still need faith, it will not pass away as some think, as no one can see God and live - we have to have strong faith in His existence and in his purposes.

(Hebrews 11:6). 6 Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him. 7......

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place he was to receive as an inheritance; he went out, although not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he lived as a foreigner in the land of the promise as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the very same promise. 10 For he was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith also Sarah received power to conceive offspring, even when she was past the age, since she considered Him faithful who made the promise. 12 For this reason, from one man who was as good as dead, there were born children, as many as the stars of heaven in number and as innumerable as the sands by the seaside. 13 In faith all of these died, although they did not receive the fulfillment of the promises; but they saw them from a distance and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who speak in such a way make it evident that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had kept remembering the place from which they had departed, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven. Therefore, God is not ashamed of them, to be called on as their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Because Jehovah is a lover of justice, he has allowed time to work out his purposes and to answer issues related to Satan, although he has the power to do it all at once.  (The other day I was explaining to a gentleman why God has not yet destroyed Satan, as the man was adamant that God is not doing anything about Satan.  I gave him the illustration of a barber's shop: Barbers are not annoyed or perturbed by the amount of hair on the floor; it does not stop them from working, although it might be an eyesore. He simply sweeps when he is finished working.)  The injustices on the earth hurt God but his love for mankind stops him from shutting shop and sweeping up before the warning is given. He will break up (undo) the works of Satan and destroy him at a time that will benefit the most humans and will vindicate his name. 

Let us continue to have love and faith and hope and acknowledge that love is the key. Agree with Comfort's conclusion.

 

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13 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

(The other day I was explaining to a gentleman why God has not yet destroyed Satan, as the man was adamant that God is not doing anything about Satan.  I gave him the illustration of a barber's shop: Barbers are not annoyed or perturbed by the amount of hair on the floor; it does not stop them from working, although it might be an eyesore. He simply sweeps when he is finished working.)  The injustices on the earth hurt God but his love for mankind stops him from shutting shop and sweeping up before the warning is given. He will break up (undo) the works of Satan and destroy him at a time that will benefit the most humans and will vindicate his name. 

 

Nice illustration, Melinda!

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Following is a partial list of Scriptural and prophetic designations applying to or being represented in the remnant of Jesus Christ’s anointed followers since the notable year 1919: (1) Noah’s wife, Gen. 7:7; (2) angels sent to Lot, Gen. 19:15; (3) Rebekah, Gen. 24:64; (4) Joseph and Benjamin, Gen. 45:14; (5) gleanings left behind, Lev. 19:9; (6) two spies to Rahab, Josh. 2:4; (7) Barak, Judg. 4:14; (8) Jephthah, Judg. 11:34; (9) Naomi and Ruth, Ruth 2:2; (10) David’s Israelite warriors, 2 Sam. 18:1; (11) Jehu, 2 Ki. 10:11, 15; (12) Mordecai and Esther, Esther 4:13; (13) Job, Job 42:10, 13; (14) King’s daughter, Ps. 45:13; (15) men of loving-kindness, Ps. 50:5; (16) intimate group, Ps. 89:7; (17) Shear-jashub, Isa. 7:3; (18) light of the nations, Isa. 60:3; (19) big trees of righteousness, Isa. 61:3; (20) ministers of our God, Isa. 61:6; (21) cluster preserved, Isa. 65:8; (22) servants called by another name, Isa. 65:15; (23) men trembling at God’s word, Isa. 66:5; (24) new nation born, Isa. 66:8; (25) Jeremiah, Jer. 1:10; (26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant, Jer. 31:33; (27) enduring watchman, Ezek. 3:16-27; (28) man in linen, Ezek. 9:2; (29) cleansed people, Ezek. 36:29-32; (30) dwellers in center of earth, Ezek. 38:12; (31) the host of heaven, Dan. 8:10; (32) sanctuary restored (cleansed), Dan. 8:14; (33) they that are wise, Dan. 11:33; (34) the happy one who is keeping in expectation, Dan. 12:12; (35) all flesh receiving the spirit, Joel 2:28; (36) Jonah, Jon. 3:1-3; (37) apple of Jehovah’s eye, Zech. 2:8; (38) liberated remnant, Zech. 2:7; (39) a Jew, Zech. 8:23; (40) sons of Levi, Mal. 3:3; (41) wheat, Matt. 13:25; (42) sons of the kingdom, Matt. 13:38; (43) workers for the vineyard, Matt. 20:1; (44) those invited to marriage feast, Matt. 22:3-14; (45) chosen ones, Matt. 24:22; (46) eagles, Matt. 24:28; (47) faithful and discreet slave, Matt. 24:45; (48) discreet virgins, Matt. 25:2; (49) brothers of the king, Matt. 25:40; (50) little flock of sheep, Luke 12:32; (51) beggar Lazarus, Luke 16:20; (52) sheep in “this fold,” John 10:1-16; (53) branches of the vine, John 15:4; (54) royal palace of David, Acts 15:16; (55) heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17; (56) the remnant, Rom. 11:5; (57) branches in the olive tree, Rom. 11:24; (58) holy ones or saints, 1 Cor. 6:2; Rev. 16:6; (59) temple, 1 Cor. 6:19; (60) new creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; (61) ambassadors for Christ, 2 Cor. 5:20; (62) congregation of God, Gal. 1:13; (63) part of Abraham’s seed, Gal. 3:29; (64) Israel of God, Gal. 6:16; (65) body of Christ, Eph. 1:22, 23; (66) soldiers of Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 2:3; (67) house under Christ, Heb. 3:6; (68) holy priesthood, 1 Pet. 2:5; (69) holy nation, 1 Pet. 2:9; (70) association of brothers, 1 Pet. 2:17; (71) seven congregations, Rev. 1:20; (72) twenty-four persons of advanced age, Rev. 4:4; (73) spiritual Israel, Rev. 7:4; (74) locusts, Rev. 9:3; (75) two witnesses, Rev. 11:3; (76) two olive trees, Rev. 11:4; (77) seed of the woman, Rev. 12:17; (78) New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:2; (79) the bride of Christ, Rev. 22:17; 19:7; (80) Jehovah’s witnesses, Isa. 43:10.
    • @Srecko Sostar  Here in the UK we would say that you have 'opened up a can of worms'  with your words above.  You have opened the way to hundreds of questions.  And although @Witness gives some very fine comments, she/he also opens the way to many questions.  For God to fulfil his 'plans' I would think He would need some kind of 'united people' Earth wide. And hence He would need to guide those people by using/sending His Holy Spirit to them.  But as the GB and presumably the Writing Dept et al, admit to not receiving God's Holy Spirit  then I presume God cannot be using them at this time. No i don't expect humans to be perfect or to act perfectly. But I do expect anyone chosen by God, to become leaders in God's chosen 'united people', to be inspired by God's Holy spirit so as to do their jobs properly.   As you say Srecko, God works through His Holy Spirit. He has always done so in the past, why would He not do so now ?  
    • It was Splane's "historic" (they called it) Annual Meeting talk in October 2014, especially when he referred to how Brother Bert Schroeder had counseled exactly this, many years earlier. Schroeder's statement was kind of a "motto" that Brother Splane repeated as the primary takeaway for this new way of looking at these portions of Scripture. That point was rewritten in the March 15, 2015 Watchtower, p.18 as follows: “Humans cannot know which Bible accounts are shadows of things to come and which are not. The clearest course is this: Where the Scriptures teach that an individual, an event, or an object is typical of something else, we accept it as such. Otherwise, we ought to be reluctant to assign an antitypical application to a certain person or account if there is no specific Scriptural basis for doing so.” The original video is now here: https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtAnnMtg/pub-jwbam_201410_1_VIDEO "Types and Antitypes." It starts at about 2 hours:8 minutes into the video. At 2h:13m:07s he says: "Now we know that these [ones spoken of by Jesus and Paul] are genuine types because the word of God says they are. But here is the question: Who is to decide if a person or an event is a type, if the word of God doesn't say anything about it? Who is qualified to do that? Our answer? We can do no better than to quote our beloved Brother Albert Schroeder who said, 'We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves." Wasn't that a beautiful statement! We agree with it. After giving several examples of this "typology" (as he called it) from several different religions, including religions the Bible Students had been part of. And these religions often applied these types to themselves, just as the Watchtower applied many of them to Bible Students and Witnesses in modern times.  Brother Splane repeats that the most important problem with them is that these applications were not found in the Scriptures themselves. He even asks, "If the study of a certain subject makes chills run up and down your spine, could it possibly be mistaken?' And the answer was YES!" Then at 2h:19m:22s he repeats this idea again, and says: "Well, in recent years the trend in our publications has been to look for the practical application of Bible events and not for types where the scripture themselves do not identify themselves as such. We simply cannot go beyond what is written!" There's a funny thing Splane does in the video where he almost makes it look like the Pyramid idea came from a Brother A. Smith who wrote the Society from time to time to tell them his ideas about how the Pyramid told of God's purpose. He gives the impression that Russell only mentioned it once, but that this brother was so "emotionally" involved with the idea that he wrote to the Society about it several times. You can compare this to the actual things that Russell and Rutherford said about the Pyramid, and draw your own conclusion as to what Brother Splane is doing here. I also think it's curious that Albert Schroeder had died many years before, and this particular idea had been first expressed by others and finally by Brother Schroeder, too, several years before he died. Evidently not enough members of the Governing Body agreed with it at the time. But, even though it was now several years later, Brother Splane in 2014 can say it was a beautiful statement, and that 'we agree with it.'
    • I was just kidd8ng about thor, I know he doesn't really exist. So when Christians get together for Thanksgiving and pray to Yaweh, you jw's are calling Yaweh a pagan god....this is blasphemy of the highest sort.
    • I have not noticed 1914 diminishing in importance. It gets aired anytime there is a reference to the times of the end, and its closeness (in publications, convention talks and Broadcasting). But you are right, there seems to be a certain hesitancy in directly including 1914 as being part of our "core doctrines". At least in the above mentioned days text. There is also no reference to it in the questions for baptism. Under Christian beliefs, Question 19 asks: How do you know that Kingdom blessings will soon be here? The answers are references to Matthew 24 and 2 Timothy (last days critical times..). IF 1914 was to be mentioned, what scripture references would be used? We can all see it would get very complicated, hence as you rightly called it, it is a difficult doctrine. But the irony is, it is a very fundamental doctrine, so it should be explained (with all the dozens of scriptures) and be a part of the questions for baptism, strictly speaking. So I wonder, why is it not there?    That's fine with direct and obvious scriptures and Bible books. But how would you explain (interpret) books such as Revelation, Ezekiel, Daniel etc? And I thought we already established that no one would any longer be inspired after the last of the apostles died.
    • Quote "Neither the word opportune nor appointed is found in the Greek, only the word time. But the more typical meaning is "opportunity" as in: "  Isn't this then ADDING to the scriptures ?  Just using the word time would surely have done the job. And to use the phrase 'appointed times' is surely wrong as it suggests a pre-planned time / a set time.  Isn't it a sin to add to the scriptures ?   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Separate comment.  Quote @JW Insider Sounds like you disagree with what Brother Splane said when he admitted that over 100 teachings that had turned Bible parables and Bible historical narratives into specific prophecies were examples of going beyond the things written. Quote "But if you think about it, almost every single past error where the Watchtower has made an interpretation that was later changed was also a matter of going beyond the things written. Whenever there was a changed teaching where the Watchtower had said "this is what it means" instead of "this is what it might mean" was a matter of going beyond the things written." WOW ! This should be put up in lights outside every Kingdom Hall, for all Witnesses and members of the public to read.  And that in itself is good enough reason for not being a JW, because the GB and it's Writing Dept GO BEYOND THE THINGS WRITTEN, and they admit to not being inspired.   But, they say that one has to be a baptised JW to gain salvation.  That is so funny when you consider it all.   
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