So lets try to be a bit positive. A question. How is the GB and the JW Org moving forward SPIRITUALLY ?
What progress has it made in the last fifty years ? I'm not talking about physical things, not buildings, not books, not meeting times........
I'm talking about purely spiritual matters. Spiritual guidance, true spiritual love from the top of the Org down, mercy, understanding of people, serving the congregants as a way of serving God Himself (as Jesus did), showing patience without having weakness, making true adjustments according to true scripture not according to man's guesses.
You may of course comment as to what you feel would make for good spiritual progress within the JW Org too.
I do hear occasionally on this forum, the expression of, (oh dear it's gone now), I'll say Basic beliefs, Foundation beliefs, of Jehovah's Witnesses.
My point being, when were those basic foundations started ? Yes we have Russell and Rutherford et al. So who decided what was what and when ?
We have things like 'hell fire' eternal damnation' ' soul in continual punishment' etc. But who basically found the truth from God's word about 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ?
Then we have the 'resurrection of the dead', those being split into heavenly and earthly. Who decided these things from scriptures ? And when ?
It would probably take me 10 years, which I probably do not have left, to research all the things I wish to know.
So here is a question. From 1960, what new serious Bible knowledge do we have from those whom regard themselves as the F&DS or top of the tree ?
What have they given to the congregation that is of extreme importance ? BUT, more importantly what have they given that they haven't changed since giving it ?
So we've lost the 7,000 year creative days. We've lost Armageddon in 1975, We've lost no blood / replaced with blood fractions. We've lost the Superior Authorities as God and Christ, and probably lots more. BUT what important beliefs have we gained since 1960 ? What IMPORTANT SCRIPTURAL input have those at the top made since 1960 ?
By JOHN BUTLER
I do find it kinda' funny that JW's love to talk about billions of people being removed / destroyed / killed / murdered at Armageddon. Billions of people.
And for what ? Well JW's say it's for not serving God. But they will also say it's for not being a baptised JW.
Well we do know for sure that God either deliberately had, or deliberately allowed, the destruction of Jerusalem in circa 70 C E, and for what ?
Well the Bible shows us it was for not serving God properly, and for killing God's son.
BUT when I suggest that the Governing Body should be removed or destroyed, oh dear, the JW's they get really upset ya know.
Governing Body = 8 men. Jerusalem = how many, men, women and children, thousands of them.
But oh dear, now it would be murder. So what was it back then ? Your see JW's live in a dream world, wrapped up in cotton wool, they just cannot face the real world.
The Governing Body do not serve God properly. That is clearly visible to anyone that honestly wants to see it.
The Governing Body are destroying JW Org, and if JW Org is God's true Organisation then the GB are deliberately working against God and against God's intentions.
Humans that deliberately work against God and cause problems for God do not last long on this Earth.
The Bible shows much proof of this, such as those that opposed Moses.
I am expecting the GB to be removed, one way or another. But only if God really wants to use the JW Org / Watchtower soc for His own purposes.
If God does not want to use those Orgs then it would seem sensible for God to set up a new Org for His purposes.
The only problem with the GB being 'removed' is that JW's will call it a 'sign of the times' and 'persecution', but if God causes the removal then I'm sure He will put them straight.
Those people that say that the GB cannot be removed / destroyed, are those people that worship the GB. And those people that worship the GB may probably need removing too.
The world is wicked, it belongs to Satan. The Earth is wonderful and it belongs to Almighty God.
For God to save this Earth and for Him to save a few humans too, drastic things have to take place. Drastic things have to take place.
Not long ago, Gerrit Losch asked, “So, whom do you trust? You fully trust Jehovah, Jesus and the faithful slave.” “Do you trust me? I hope so.” He quoted, Prov 14:15:
“The naive person believes every word. But the shrewd one ponders each step.”
The leaders of the organization teach that it is God’s organization. This would mean all instructions, all teachings, would come from God. So, we could surmise that all teachings are trustworthy, that JWs could thoroughly expect their leaders in charge, to tell them the truth as Losch expressed above - truth spoken at all times.
JWs, you are told that you hear God’s promises when you listen to what the organization teaches you. You are told you love the organization because it teaches you “wonderful truths”. You are admonished to do what the organization wants you to do, because it is God’s proactive organization, always guiding you for your benefit, with your best interests at heart. Isa 48:17,18
However, since your anointed leaders claim not to be inspired by Holy Spirit, how can you trust their teachings as beneficial and coming from God? (1 John 2:27; Rom 5:5) (1 Cor 12:4,7; Heb 2:4)
We’re talking about a multi-million-dollar organization in the earthly spiritual realm that promises to guide you to salvation. (Phil 3:19; Rom 1:25) That’s a big deal! Millions of people depend on it, to lead them in truth; since without truth, we cannot be saved. John 8:32;14:6
Ask yourself, how can it be done without its leaders’ inspiration from Holy Spirit? On a wing and a prayer, as the saying goes? What leads them, what motivates them, if their hearts are not inspired with truth from Christ? (John 16:13; 2 Pet 3:18) (1 John 4:1; 2 Pet 2:1; Rev 8:11;13:15; 16:13,14)
I have heard 1 Cor 13:8 used by one of the GB members, as the reason for lack of inspiration among the organization’s leaders:
“Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will be done away with. Where there are various languages, they will cease. Where there is knowledge, it will be done away with.”
Has knowledge vanished away during these last days? No. Then, why would prophesy cease? Dan 12:4; Rev 11:1-3
Consider verse 9,10: 9 "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; 10 but when that which is complete has come, then that which is partial will be done away with. "
“That which is complete” has not arrived; thus, prophesy as well as knowledge, has not ceased. John 16:13
(Consider “Has Prophesy Ceased?” 4womaninthewilderness, Pearl Doxsey)
What if, you found a teaching in the history files (there are several, and easy to find) that wasn’t trustworthy; that is, it couldn’t be applied today since it was replaced with another teaching? And, this teaching affected the promise of salvation for thousands of people? Many may have died under that false teaching, going to their grave believing simply, a lie. Would this be any different than a Catholic going to his grave believing in the trinity? A lie is a lie. God or Jesus would not be responsible for the organization giving you faulty instructions, that later had to be scrapped. It falls on the shoulders of men. Isa 2:22 We must admit that it is an abnormal relationship of a spirit inspired organization (“spirit-directed”), to be led by uninspired leaders. John 3:21; 1 John 1:6; Rev 13:11,12,15
I think you’ll agree that we would never receive bad advice or direction from the Father, because He truly has our best interests at heart. Jer 29:11 So much so, that we received warning from Jesus of false “christs”, false prophets who would come on the scene in the last days to deceive “even the elect”. Matt 24:22-25 Now, the “elect” are the anointed ones, where the majority are gathered presently in the organization. Rev 20:7-9 Would they, as a group, be deceived by false prophets in “Christendom” if they are baptized JWs? Would they, as a group, be 'conquered' spiritually by any false prophets in the world when they are already JWs? Rev 13:7; 9:1-4
The Bible speaks of an anointed “remnant” coming out of “Babylon”. Zech 2:6,7; Matt 24:15,16; Rev 18:4; 12:14,6 If that remnant is the anointed in the organization that have escaped Babylon, as your leaders teach you, this would indicate there are numerous anointed ones in Christendom who never entered the organization. Do you believe this, JWs?
The anointed are a remnant, the last group of the “woman’s seed” to face Satan’s final test before the Kingdom arrives. Rev 12:4,15,17 This test is called the “Great Tribulation”. Jer 30:5-7; Matt 24:21,22; Rev 3:10 Deceit is at its helm, since it is Satan’s greatest, most powerful tool to use against God’s people. 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12
The Great Tribulation is a spiritual assault by Satan upon the remnant (Rev 12:17; 20:8-10; 16:13-16; 1 Tim 4:1; Luke 21:20-22)
through the greatest Army that has ever existed [Rev 13:1,4; 11:2; 9:7,10; Luke 22:31; 21:20-22,24; Mark 13:14 – (Num 18:7); Matt 24:15,16]
It has a deceptive priestly - princely veneer (Jer 7:4,8; Ezek 44:6-9; Rev 9:7; Nahum 3:17) of divine inspiration*** and approval, through endorsement by the false prophet's lying spirit, not by God's spirit! (Rev 13:14,15; 19:20) (Rev 2:2; 2 Cor 11:13-15; 2 Tim 3:5,13; Matt 7:15; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 16:14,13,15; 19:20; Matt 24:24,25; Rev 13:15--***"breath" -John 2:22). Pearl Doxsey, “The Great Tribulation, What and Why?”
DECEIT. How do we conquer deceit? By examining each teaching offered by an anointed one, and comparing it to God’s standards through Jesus Christ - to determine if it is true. Matt 7:20; John 15:5 As humans adjusting our spiritual beliefs, we may easily settle for what feels good, but not always for what is right. This last test is one that should purge our minds and hearts of falsehoods, but not all will submit to God’s pure standards of truth. Dan 12:10; Ps 66:10-12; Mal 3:2-4 Not all will be among the “remnant” to “come out of her, my people”. Rev 18:4-8
Will you? Or, are you the naive one who believes every word that comes from leaders who are not "inspired" by the truth of Christ?
I will extol YHVH with all my heart
in the council of the upright and in the assembly.
2 Great are the works of YHVH;
they are pondered by all who delight in them.
3 Glorious and majestic are His deeds,
and His righteousness endures forever.
4 He has caused His wonders to be remembered;
YHVH is gracious and compassionate.
5 He provides food for those who fear Him;
He remembers His covenant forever.
6 He has shown his people the power of His works,
giving them the lands of other nations.
7 The works of His hands are faithful and just;
all His precepts are trustworthy.
8 They are established for ever and ever,
enacted in faithfulness and uprightness.
9 He provided redemption for His people;
he ordained His covenant forever—
holy and awesome is His name.
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
all who follow His precepts have good understanding.
To Him belongs eternal praise.
By JOHN BUTLER
I find it interesting when so much is compared between the Jews and the JW's.
But in my opinion, one big difference between being a Jew before and in the time of Jesus, and being a JW, is choice.
If a person was born into the Nation of Israel, they were born under Law and ruled over by the Religious leaders (and the Romans) at that time. There was no choice of being a Jew or not being a Jew. They were born into it. So of course many of them, probably all of them, committed 'sin' and had to make sin offerings. God had chosen that Nation, those people had responsibility but not of their choice.
Now, people that enter the JW religion do so voluntarily. ( Unfortunately for those born into it, they have to go through the motions of serving the JW Org until they are of an age whereby they can leave home. Then, when of age they too can volunteer to be a JW or chose to leave the Org.).
There is a big difference from being born into a Nation which you may not like, than voluntarily joining a religion which you do like.
So the big question is, if 'millions' of people voluntarily join this JW Org, why do so many commit child abuse, adultery and many other sins ?
If this is supposed to be 'THE true religion', why are the people not guided by God through Jesus Christ ? Just reading comments on here from so called JW's makes me laugh. There is no love, no mercy, no understanding, no respect even.
Being an ex JW and seeing things from both sides i have found more genuine love, kindness, friendship, respect, warmth, understanding etc outside of the Org than inside. Inside the Org people have to be told to 'love one another', outside the Org people do it anyway.
It has amazed me how JW's can really believe that God is with them when they are so cold and selfish.
With the Jews that were born into that Nation, they had no choice about their way of life. It was basically a dictatorship by God. The Laws were from 'above'. Obviously for the right reason, to bring forth Jesus Christ who in turn would 'rescue' the human race from complete destruction. But it was a totally different situation to the JW Org today.
So now all you 'JWs', think on it. Do you truly believe you are in this' special environment' within the Org ? Do you really think that your Org has God's approval ?
Think deeply about all the problems within JW Org. All the disgusting things being done voluntarily by all the volunteer JW's.
Now ask yourself, are you really a volunteer JW or are you trapped in the Org for fear of losing all those 'so called friends' ?
You know that you can only have your family and 'friends' as long as you are a JW. Do you feel like the Jews must have felt, trapped in that Nation ?
As we know many of the Jews left the Jewish religion and way of life to follow Christ, but it was difficult for them. However, they did have God's approval and God, through Christ made this known clearly. And it seems that many are leaving the JW Org to seek God's approval too.
But remember that all JW's are volunteers, or should be, so why oh why is there so much trouble in that Org ?
By JOHN BUTLER
Having read lots of comments on this forum it is very easy to see that all that Jehovah's Witnesses have is their belief in their Governing Body and it's Writing Department.
If they believe, as a certain cowboy would have it, that a person can gain no true knowledge from the bible itself, then how else does a person gain true knowledge ?
It would seem that Jehovah's Witnesses rely totally on their GB 'boses' and on the Writing Department of same, to tell all JW's what to believe and when to believe it.
Why do i say 'and when to believe it' ? Well you have to keep up you know . What is said to be 'truth' by the GB and co one day, will be said to be totally untrue the next day or week.
JW's have nothing, no proof of any 'enlightenment' from above. They talk proudly about having 8.5 million members earthwide, but how many Muslims are there earthwide ? How many Catholics earthwide ? Numbers prove nothing as it can be clearly seen.
Yes I was once fooled by all the 'niceness' of a few brothers and sisters. But once I got to know those people properly I soon found out that they are no better than people in the world.
The JW Org is no better than any other organisation that pretends to serve God, but the JW Org is in some ways more dangerous. It wraps itself around people's lives and restricts people's freedom of thinking. It pretends to have 'special knowledge' from God that no other organisation has.
But then if one looks closely one can see it is all just a smoke screen. The JW Org only has 8 men in America dominating it, and 8.5 million people worshiping those 8 men.
I do feel a bit foolish having wasted years of my life believing all of it's lies and deceit, but I congratulate myself for not being frightened to ask questions and do research for myself.
No matter what any Jehovah's Witness tells you, the truth is, all they have is a belief in their GB, and they follow their GB's orders via all the others in charge including the puppet men Elders.
At meetings, conventions, assemblies, on the ministry et al, all they do is use the literature provided for them by the GB and the Writing dept. Without question they pump this 'information' into other people. When conducting a supposed 'bible study' it is actually a book study, studying the words of the GB / writing dept, not studying God's written word properly. They spend more time reading the paragraphs and answering those questions than they do reading scriptures and focusing on God's words.
It is a horrid way of brainwashing people, washing out the common sense and replacing it with lies from the GB / writing dept. Dictating, giving orders and pretending it is God's will.
Removing the love that people have for one another and replacing it with discrimination. Shunning family members, turning their back on anyone that is not a JW by saying all other people are just 'part of the world' and therefore wicked.
Frightening people with threats of 'armageddon' killing them.
And now it seems that they are almost begging for contributions as they seem to be getting short of money. Well paying off millions in compensation for the Child Abuse / Pedophilea of course. Selling off Kingdom Halls too as funds run low.
Oh how low that religion has sunken. Are they really stupid enough to believe that God is with them ?
As the result of job change many years ago, we moved the family of three young children from the vicinity of the Pacific Ocean to the vicinity of a large mountain lake in California. Until housing was found, a drafty, “caretaker’s cottage”, built around 1900 and part of once was a privately owned grand estate, was offered as temporary housing for those brief summer months. Since 1965, this estate has been a state park attracting thousands of visitors each year. A handful of these visitors ogled my dishwashing techniques from the window of our borrowed kitchen, while on their independent tour of the estate. The cottage porch sits back just a bit from the lake’s shoreline, and close by, the mouth of a small creek empties into its chilly waters. That summer, the lake level was below its natural rim; and the creek, a perfect flow for three boys to wade up and down between its banks. In this creek, a discovery was made. A gooey clay cache oozed between the toes of the oldest son’s bare feet, and soon a combined slip and clay lumps were hand scooped from the creek bottom and brought to the front porch for sculpting. Young hands formed and reformed small pots and trinkets put aside to dry in the warm sun. Because of the clay’s raw, unrefined quality, the artwork produced didn’t survive long; crumbling into dust as the summer days passed by.
During that time period as a JW entering a new congregation, I would not have recalled to mind God’s people as clay from the earth in a potter’s hands. Jer 18:6 (Acts 7:49; Mark 14:58; Matt 16:1; Mark 14:58; Matt 16:18; Eph 2:19-22) Only briefly did an anointed one join the congregation; an older woman, and very submissive to the elder body’s direction. She seemed so fragile, resulting from her age; yet now, I can envision her as “clay” in the hands of the Father. I was oblivious then, that the chosen ones were in jeopardy of becoming ‘crushed’ under the unseen heavy weight of a “Gentile”/Elder rule. Do you, JWs, realize that the power of the “holy ones” is crumbling to dust under this dominion? This is the reality in the Watchtower among God’s chosen people. Dan 2:35; 8:13; 12:7; Rev 13:1,4-8 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jer+18%3A6%3B+Acts+7%3A49%3B+Mark+14%3A58%3B+Matt.16%3A18%3B+Eph+2%3A19-22%3BDan+2%3A35%3B+8%3A13%3B+12%3A7%3B+Rev+13%3A1%2C4-8&version=CSB
As long as good clay remains supple in the hands of a skilled potter, a beautiful and useful formation is born. God desires this for His people under covenant with him; to fulfill His purpose for all of His children in the Kingdom. Isa 64:8; 2 Cor 4:7; Gal 6:15; 2 Tim 2:20-21; Eph 2:6,7,20-22;3:9-11 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+64%3A8%3B+2+Cor+4%3A7%3B+Gal+6%3A15%3B+2+Tim+2%3A20-21%3B+Eph+2%3A6%2C7%2C20-22%3B3%3A9-11+&version=CSB
Yet, each one since Christ, has faced a refinement period allowed by God; a sifting put upon them by Satan through dominating powers. Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 4:12,13 In the Watchtower organization, other hands and other minds are at work coercing this possession of God, to remain marked as unrefined and susceptible to complete crushing under an iron rule and its lies. Rev 2:26,27;13:16;14:9,10; 2 Thess 2:11,12 At the upper level, its anointed leaders have molded as defiled impure clay, to the iron; ‘mingling’ as one dominating power of both clay and iron; spiritual “Israel” with spiritual “Gentiles”, who are the un-anointed elder body. (Rom 9:6; Gal 6:16; 3:29) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22%3A31%3B+1+Pet+4%3A12%2C13%3B+++Rev+2%3A26%2C27%3B13%3A16%3B14%3A9%2C10%3B+2+Thess+2%3A11%2C12%3BRom.9%3A6%3B+Gal.6%3A16%3B+3%3A29+&version=CSB
This merging of powers is depicted in the feet of the image from Daniel’s dream. It is the final kingdom, unlike any other, that comes against the “holy people” during the time of the end. Will God’s “clay” turn back to the Potter seeking refinement, and leave this oppressive power ruling over them? Well, how often in the past has the majority of the nation of Israel listened to God and been forgiven for their transgressions? Always, only a remnant was restored. Dan 2:41-43; 2:40; 7:23; Job 10:9; Hos 8:8; Isa 1:16-18,2,9 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+2%3A41-43%3B+2%3A40%3B+7%3A23%3B+Job+10%3A9%3B+Hos+8%3A8%3B+Isa+1%3A16-18%2C2%2C9++++&version=CSB
FROM WATCHTOWER’S “ISAIAH’S PROPHESY”: “In these “last days,” Jehovah has bared his holy arm in order to revive the anointed remnant, the “two witnesses” of the book of Revelation. (2 Tim 3:1; Rev 11:3,7-13) Since 1919, these have been brought into a spiritual paradise, the spiritual estate that they now share with millions of their associates, the other sheep. ip-2 chap. 13 pp. 180-193
“These “escaped ones” were restored to their God-given spiritual estate, which he caused to sprout abundantly. THIS SPIRITUAL ESTATE HAS PRESENTED AN INVITING, ATTRACTIVE APPEARANCE, which has drawn millions of other God-fearing people to join the remnant in true worship.” ip-1 chap. 6 pp. 61-72
To believe that the Watchtower holds a refined remnant of spiritual “Israel” to come out of the “world”, is true folly. Its version of Revelation’s “two witnesses” were those who “took the lead” and were physically imprisoned by the U.S. government after preaching in “sackcloth”. Why were they imprisoned? Among other charges, it was for Rutherford’s publication “The Finished Mystery”, which contained his blatant accusations against the political and religious entities and their stand concerning the war at hand. He and his cohorts were charged with sedition. When this charge was made, Rutherford scrambled not only to stop further printing of the book, but required the Bible Students to rip out 7 pages of it; all to AVOID being sentenced to jail. The Society even encouraged the Bible Students to buy war bonds and participate in a day of prayer for victory, all to appease the government. Although the Watchtower has revealed some truth regarding these events, it then glorifies and embellishes it, as you see written in “Isaiah’s Prophesy” by effectively hiding the true account from its members.
Did this book reveal biblical truth and Revelation from Christ? Did it explain the need for God’s Temple anointed priesthood to be refined and cleansed of all sin and idolatry, by speaking in the manner of Moses and Elijah; or, was it preaching lies? (1 Pet 2:5,9;1 Cor 3:16,17; Dan 12:10; Mal 3:1,2; 1 Pet 1:7; Matt 17:1,2; Rev 11:1-3) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%3B1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+Dan+12%3A10%3B+Mal+3%3A1%2C2%3B+1+Pet+1%3A7%3B+Matt+17%3A1%2C2%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3&version=CSB
Watchtower’s own “Revelation” book gives a conflicting report on “The Finished Mystery” exposed by a leaflet covering various aspects of the book. This leaflet was created by JWs, not by the website where it was found. After quoting two contrasting remarks from the Revelation Book, it states:
“Therefore, according to ‘Revelation – It’s Grand Climax at Hand!’, even though ‘The Finished Mystery’ ‘proved to be UNSATISFACTORY AS AN EXPLANATION OF REVELATION’, its distribution was SOMEHOW INSTRUMENTAL in fulfilling the bible prophesy in Revelation 11 concerning the ‘Two Witnesses’ and the manner which they ‘struck the earth with every sort of plague’.” (caps mine) http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/finished-mystery-leaflet-letter.pdf
In truth, “The Finished Mystery” struck the “earth” – God’s chosen ones – with every sort of lie imaginable and is well documented in the leaflet.
Revelation’s authentic “two witnesses” preach in “sackcloth” over the detestable things committed by God’s anointed Temple priesthood; yet, “The Finished Mystery” and all Wt. literature concerning the message of the “two witnesses”, deflects attention away from God’s chosen people, to those outside of His Covenant by targeting Christendom and the world’s governments.
These “two witnesses” are not symbolically “killed” for their brief jail time and then later released to further spout off more lies and more false prophesy; but are rejected for exposing the real identity of the Beast/”man of lawlessness” and the false prophet/Harlot directing it. They have spent years in captivity among their own people, drinking in Wormwood’s corruptive waters before waking up to Truth. It is then they are “killed” when speaking TRUTH revealed by Christ; disfellowshipped and marked as spiritually “dead”. Luke 21:24; Rev 13:7,10; Micah 4:10; John 16:2; Rev 8:11;13:15; 12:11 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+21%3A24%3B+Rev+13%3A7%2C10%3B+Micah+4%3A10%3B+John+16%3A2%3B+Rev+8%3A11%3B13%3A15%3B+12%3A11&version=CSB
Through Satan’s full use of his earthly resources, he has successfully spun a “spiritual estate” as attractive and inviting; yet, this spiritually immoral, sultry deception that JWs slave to maintain, effectively afflicts and trample God’s chosen people. It is an oppression symbolically perceived through the physical evidence of the combined iron and clay powers ruling over them. Matt 24:15; Dan 8:11 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A15%3B+Dan+8%3A11+&version=CSB
When Pilate presented both the robber Barabbas and Jesus before the Jewish leaders and the people, he asked, “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor. “Barabbas,” they answered. Matt 27:21
Barabbas, (meaning “son of a father”), a robber and killer, was arrested for sedition – “insurrection”, by the Gentile Roman government. Mark 15:7; Luke 23:18,19 Although guilty for his crimes, he was also released by that same power at the demands of the Jewish spiritual leaders. Rutherford was also released, having his own confidantes fighting for him. He was not pardoned or exonerated because his innocence was established, as the Watchtower would have you believe. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+15%3A7%3B+Luke+23%3A18%2C19+++&version=CSB
However, at the vicious demands of the Pharisees and his own people, Jesus was put to death by the Gentile nation for exposing the Pharisees as hypocritical liars and spiritual adulterers; and for laying “heavy loads” on the people they ruled over. Matt 20:17-19; John 8:44,45; Matt 23:4 He preached “repent for the Kingdom of heaven has come near”. Matt 3:2 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+20%3A17-19%3B+John+8%3A44%2C45%3B+Matt+23%3A4%3B+Matt+3%3A2&version=CSB
Likewise, on the authority of the Harlot/GB, the “two witnesses” are handed over to the “Gentile”/elder body and judged as apostates worthy of “death”. They also, expose the leaders of their people for spiritual blasphemy, preaching the same message as Jesus did to God’s wayward nation, to “repent for the Kingdom of heaven has come near”. Matt 10:17,18,21,22; John 16:2; Rev 13:1,5-7,11,12,14,15; Matt 10:16,19,20,24; Rev 11:3,4;11:7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+10%3A17%2C18%2C21%2C22%3B+John+16%3A2%3B+Rev+13%3A1%2C5-7%2C11%2C12%2C14%2C15%3B++Matt+10%3A16%2C19%2C20%2C24%3B+Rev+11%3A3%2C4%3B11%3A7&version=CSB
So, what about Rutherford and Watchtower’s string of leadership? Is it fair to say they are "robbers" and "killers" - sons of the Father of the lie? If anointed ones preach lies and not truth in Christ, do they not rob one of teachings leading to eternal life? Matt 23:13-15; 15:14; Rom 9:1; Ps 52:1-4; Matt 7:15-20 When they spiritually “kill” their brothers for speaking truth, does this not make them spiritually blood guilty? Matt 24:48-51; 27:25; 23:34; John 16:2,3; Rev 16:2,5,6,7; 18:24 The organizational arrangement was “born” during Rutherford’s reign. This arrangement allowed for the development of the power of iron to eventually overcome the Temple of God, at the authority of the Harlot/GB. Rev 11:1; Matt 24:15; Dan 11:31,32,36; 2 Thess 2:4; Rev 9:1,3,10,11 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+23%3A13-15%3B+15%3A14%3B+Rom+9%3A1%3B+Ps+52%3A1-4%3B+Matt+7%3A15-20%3B++Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+27%3A25%3B+23%3A34%3B+John+16%3A2%2C3%3B+Rev+16%3A2%2C5%2C6%2C7%3B+18%3A24%3B+Rev+11%3A1%3B+Matt+24%3A15%3B+Dan+11%3A31%2C32%2C36%3B+2+Thess+2%3A4%3B+Rev+9%3A1%2C3%2C10%2C11&version=CSB
JWs, how long will you keep listening to Watchtower’s persistent attempt to cover over its lies with more lies? Matt 24:15-21; Luke 17:26-30 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A15-21%3B+Luke+17%3A26-30&version=CSB
"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the TRUTH. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." John 18:37
Testifying to the TRUTH is the purpose Jesus sends his “two witnesses” to the Temple priesthood and “clay” of the earth. Their warning call shouts out and reveals the looming iron/clay power threatening the salvation of God’s chosen people, and all, who reside in the organization. Ezek 33:6,8; Rev 9:17-20; 13:8; 2 Thess 2:9-10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezek+33%3A6%2C8%3B+Rev+9%3A17-20%3B+13%3A8%3B+2+Thess+2%3A9-10&version=CSB
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Go down at once to the potter’s house; there I will reveal my words to you.” So I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, working away at the wheel. But the jar that he was making from the clay became flawed in the potter’s hand, so he made it into another jar, as it seemed right for him to do.
The word of the Lord came to me: “House of Israel, can I not treat you as this potter treats his clay?”—this is the Lord’s declaration. “Just like clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, house of Israel. At one moment I might announce concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will uproot, tear down, and destroy it. However, if that nation about which I have made the announcement turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the disaster I had planned to do to it. At another time I might announce concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it. However, if it does what is evil in my sight by not listening to me, I will relent concerning the good I had said I would do to it. So now, say to the men of Judah and to the residents of Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look, I am about to bring harm to you and make plans against you. Turn now, each from your evil way, and correct your ways and your deeds.’
But they will say, ‘It’s hopeless. We will continue to follow our plans, and each of us will continue to act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’” Jer 18:1-12
The Watchtower teaches that God's people are like "clay in the Potter's hands", then turns the attention of JWs to Satan's world for fulfillment of the feet of the image in Daniel's dream. Yet, the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" of Matt 24:15 and Dan 9:27 is spoken as the coalition of power in Dan 11:14-16; one of these powers as COMING "FROM YOUR OWN PEOPLE" - spiritual "Israel", and the "clay" of the last power in Daniel's image.
Pearl Doxsey has several articles about the last destructive power over the holy ones.
“Iron and Clay”
“Why Jesus Came to Earth/Last World Power Over the Chosen ones/”Iron” and “Clay”
The meaning of ““World/earth/home”
Our problem with the humility
Humility is not a problem, obviously, is the lack of this quality that I’m referring as a problem. And when I mention “our”, I mean “our” in all our levels. And, let me be direct. I see -in general- more humility in sisters than in brothers, more in publishers than in elders, more in elders than in elders with “special responsibilities.” I’m talking in general, I know real fine examples of humility in brothers with big responsibilities in our organization.
Ask for forgiveness
This is a basic lesson parents teach to their children: “ask for forgiveness” always you’re wrong. And, as Christians we’ve received a lot of fine instruction to follow the path of humility, expressed specially when we apologize for our errors. Then…
Should the GB ask for forgiveness when erring?
Do you think the same rule all Christians try to follow also apply to GB? Naturally. And, do you usually see the GB asking for forgiveness? Before you answer, one example.
Will resurrect the unborn babies? Until 2009 we ‘officially’ thought that not. After reading the article w09 4/15 one sister told me that years ago she lost a baby in her womb. She recognizes that our teaching about the lack of hope for these creatures really hurt her. Even the quoted article recognized the possibility of these emotional wounds when mentioned:
· “For those who have never suffered the loss of an unborn baby in this way, it may be difficult to imagine the feelings of those who have. Some parents grieve such losses intensely. One mother lost five children before they were born. In time, she felt blessed to raise two healthy sons. Yet, she remembered each loss. To the end of her days, she knew just how old her stillborn and miscarried babies would have been had they survived.” What was the reason we thought in a way that caused ADDED emotional wounds to these sisters? In the same article, the GB, the “slave”, IMPLICITLY answer:
· *** w09 4/15 p. 13 Questions From Readers *** Does all of this mean, then, that the Bible teaches that children who perish before birth will be resurrected? We must emphasize that the Bible does not directly answer that question, so there is no basis for humans to be dogmatic on the matter. Do you saw? When we in the past were teaching plainly “no resurrection” WE WERE BEING DOGMATIC. This was the IMPLICIT reason. Then, if the writers of the article would have shown more humility, this paragraph, EXPLICITLY apologizing would had been perfect:
· “We sincerely apologize because our previous understanding lead to these sisters to an added emotional damage… We, the brothers with the responsibility, were dogmatic. Signed: The Governing Body” Would have been bad if the GB would have included this kind of commentary in the article? If not, why we have never found this kind of expressions? One moment! The “slave” is humble, the brothers recognize they commit errors and aren’t unerring.
“I am a sinner”
I use to give a talk about the pray. At some point ask to the auditorium what they think about my pray this night if I mention to Jehovah “Oh God, forgive me please, I am a sinner.” Now, stop for a while and observe from the platform the brothers nodding. At this point ask them “what if I modify my pray tonight in this way: ‘Oh God, forgive me please, today I’ve envied brother James a lot when he showed me his new car’…etc.”. Now the brothers nodded with more emphasis.
What I mean is that a humble person should be specific when ask for forgiveness. Sadly, I haven’t found this humility with the errors the branch in my country has made over the years, nor the errors the GB has made when publishing some information causing damages –Later I’ll try to justify them.
Perhaps someone thinks this is to be hard or lack of appreciation with the teaching and work of these brothers of the GB. Believe me, I pray for them. Whether I like it or not they are, under Christ, guiding the ship, and all of us are in the same boat –Later I’ll try to justify them.
If someone thinks this matters don’t cause wounds…
The 1975 repentance
Between many other references, I quote this, because is easily found in the WT Library (CD edition).
· *** km 7/70 p. 3 Announcements *** A new circuit assembly program is scheduled to begin in September. We believe you will find it most informative and upbuilding. The public talk will be “Who Will Conquer the World in the 1970’s? I attended this assembly. This and other declarations make us to feel very excited. After this came the disillusion but, in general, God’s people, as we serve God for love, have continued worship Him until now.
Had damage with this unscriptural emphasis to one date? These are, rounded, the average of publishers in those years:
· 1975: 2,062,000 · 1976: 2,136,000 · 1977: 2,117,000 · 1978: 2,086,000 · 1979: 2,087,000 · 1980: 2,175,000 As we can see, it had a slowdown in several years just after 1975. Was it the fault, at some degree, the GB teaching about 1975? All of we, serving in the congregations around the world, know the answer. In my personal case, as I’m alone in the truth and I was a teenager in those years, all my family laughed about my new religion and my beliefs. Weight was added to their arguments about we were a group of fanatics.
Well, what is the supposed behavior of a humble person when errs so seriously? Yes, ask for forgiveness. Some brother now is crying: “but the brothers recognized his error!” Yes, I’m witness of this. It began in the 1979 district convention. I still remember the talk and the brother assigned to the speech. Follows quotations about this talk.
· *** yb80 pp. 30-31 1980 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses *** The brothers also appreciated the candor of this same talk, which acknowledged the Society’s responsibility for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975.
And, the talk was partially recorded in this Watchtower article:
· *** w80 3/15 pp. 17-18 pars. 5-6 Choosing the Best Way of Life *** In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated. In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date
Before someone says “this proves the humility of GB”, let me say this illustration.
Imagine a tourist guide in a journey by the jungle is leading a group of tourists. He lost the way and, as a result, some of the persons under his responsibility lost their life. Now, years later all finishes, he says to the group he took by the wrong way: “I wasn’t the only one wrong, all of you were also lost.”
Do you think the guide was humble? Do you think our GB showed humility? –Later I’ll try to justify them.
An Apostate Fails
This is the subtitle containing the next quote, six years after the above statements regarding the 1975 “error”:
· *** w86 12/15 p. 20 pars. 20-21 *** “Is there a modern-day parallel to Achan’s sin? Yes, there is. […] For a recent example, during the mid-1970’s some prominent elders became disgruntled. It was below their “dignity” to witness from house to house, proclaiming the Kingdom message after the pattern of Jesus’ apostles. (Acts 5:42; 20:20, 21, 29, 30) It looked good to them to go back to Babylonish teachings. Slyly they tried to raise doubts about “the last days” and to slow down the work of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (2 Peter 3:3, 4) Finally, they had to be disfellowshipped.—[…] Loyal Witnesses moved forward vigorously into the 1980’s! Likely the presence of a small number of apostates had contributed to the slowing down of Jehovah’s work during the last half of the 1970’s—when the average yearly increase in the active ranks of Jehovah’s Witnesses fell to less than 1 percent. However, the annual increase in the last five years has averaged more than 6 percent. Kingdom publishers reached a worldwide peak of 3,024,131 in 1985, compared with 2,179,256 in 1975”
I remember those days. In my country almost no one could perceive any bad influence from these ex-brothers. I have no doubt those days were hard but, each reader of the above Watchtower article got the idea that the slowdown of those years was due for these apostates. Really? The 1975 disillusion hadn’t nothing to do with this? Following with my illustration about the guide in the jungle, what if he says: “the blame wasn’t mine, this other people also contributed to the error!” Is it humility?
I think it is time to justify this behavior of our brothers in his VERY DIFFICULT assignment.
The patriarch Job and the “two witnesses”
As all we well know Job was under attack, not only by the Devil, but unconsciously also his friends cause him to develop an attitude of self-defense. This pressure forced this man to deny any error on his part. (Job 34:5) “For Job has said, ‘I am in the right” resumes his attitude. Also this quote from WT reflects well the idea.
· *** w09 4/15 pp. 10-11 par. 14 Job maintained his integrity even though he was imperfect. Sometimes, under extreme pressure, he had the wrong perspective. For instance, he said to Jehovah: “I cry to you for help, but you do not answer me . . . With the full might of your hand you harbor animosity toward me.” Moreover, Job attached undue importance to justifying himself when he said: “I am not in the wrong” and “there is no violence upon my palms, and my prayer is pure.” (Job 10:7; 16:17; 30:20, 21)
And it isn’t true the GB is continuously under scrutiny, attack, looking them with a magnifying glass? In the old good days of the types-antitypes we would say this should be a model. But even without types, the GB is continuously criticized (this forum is a very soft example, I dislike many others places because those persons only want to spit on our faces). As one strong proof the GB is under scrutiny, let’s read about the two witnesses in Revelation, which foreshadow God’s people in our days, mainly the brothers leading the work:
· (Revelation 11:7-12) “the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them […] And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not allow their corpses to be laid in a tomb. And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth. […] And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them.
I think is crystal clear from the scriptures these brothers would have enemies and they would be persecuted. And the hate upon them would get to the point to celebrate their killing and enjoying with the sight of their corpses.
Well, for me it justifies the attitude of the GB. I mean, I understand it, not I share it.
The difficult role of Elihu
Which side are you on? Perhaps Job thought this when heard this words from the young: (Job 33:12) “But you are not right in saying this.” And this is the situation of some of us. Our brothers overseeing the worldwide brotherhood are, scripturally under scrutiny, continuously. If we thought that some errors or injustices are made from these brothers, if we point these mistakes, it appears that we are in the side of opponents. It is a difficult role. What did Elihu? Disqualified entirely Job, as his ‘friends’? Look these exact words: “you are not right in saying this.” I hope nobody would think he was an apostate to say this.
And for some of us I think there is a quite similar situation. We respect the GB. We think these brothers are being used for God to oversee His house, as we, the elders in one specific congregation are being used for God to oversee this congregation. But sometimes, we can't deny ourselves and our intelligence, when we point out, as Elihu “you are not right in saying this.”
By JW Insider
Usually when we refer to the "faithful and discreet slave" parable, we refer to the parable of 'the faithful and the unfaithful slave' found in Matthew 24:45-51. But the parable of the "faithful and discreet slave" is also found in Luke, where the expression is changed a bit to "the faithful steward, the discreet one . . . that slave."
(Luke 12:42-48) 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 44 I tell you truthfully, he will appoint him over all his belongings. 45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.
"That slave" is given an assignment to feed the master's "body of attendants." If he obeys, he gets a promotion, and if he disobeys he is punished. This is the exact same idea as in Matthew 24, except that there are only about 15 words referring what happens if this slave obeys and 150 words in the section about what happens if the slave disobeys. That's about 10 times as much space given to the idea of disobedience versus obedience. In Matthew it's only about 3 times as much space given to the idea of disobedience.
That might explain why the verses in Matthew are referenced so much more often in Watch Tower publications and speech. The Watchtower has, of course, minimized the idea of any potential disobedience:
*** w13 7/15 p. 24 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” ***
Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? No. Granted, some individuals have manifested a spirit similar to that of the evil slave described by Jesus. We would call them apostates, whether they were of the anointed or of the “great crowd.” (Rev. 7:9) But such ones do not make up an evil slave class. Jesus did not say that he would appoint an evil slave. His words here are actually a warning directed to the faithful and discreet slave.
Notice that Jesus introduces the warning with the words “if ever.” One scholar says that in the Greek text, this passage “for all practical purposes is a hypothetical condition.”
This is an adjustment to the doctrine held just up until the change in 2013. Prior to the quote above (originally presented at the Annual Meeting in 2012) the idea about the evil slave was just the opposite: that the "evil slave" came directly from the ranks of the "faithful slave."
*** w04 3/1 p. 13 pars. 2-4 ‘The Faithful Slave’ Passes the Test! ***
The expression “that evil slave” draws our attention to Jesus’ preceding words about the faithful and discreet slave. Yes, the “evil slave” came from the ranks of the faithful slave. How?
3 Before 1914, many members of the faithful slave class had high hopes of meeting with the Bridegroom in heaven that year, but their hopes were not fulfilled. As a result of this and other developments, many were disappointed and a few became embittered. Some of these turned to ‘beating’ their former brothers verbally and consorting with “confirmed drunkards,” religious groups of Christendom.—Isaiah 28:1-3; 32:6.
4 These former Christians came to be identified as the “evil slave,” and Jesus punished them with “the greatest severity.” How? He rejected them, and they lost out on their heavenly hope. They were not, however, immediately destroyed. They first had to endure a period of weeping and gnashing of teeth in “the darkness outside” the Christian congregation. (Matthew 8:12) Since those early days, a few other anointed individuals have shown a similar bad spirit, identifying themselves with the “evil slave.” Some of the “other sheep” have imitated their unfaithfulness. (John 10:16)
Now, of course, the "faithful slave" is made to be the equivalent of the Governing Body since 1919. (The Governing Body has only existed in its current form since the early to mid-1970's.) For this reason, evidently, it would no longer be appropriate to consider or expect that the evil slave might come from the ranks of the Governing Body. Continuing this teaching would likely create a measure of suspicion and questioning of the Governing Body themselves.
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