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How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?


Anna

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On 2/27/2017 at 7:59 AM, Shiwiii said:

June 2017 Watchtower

15. How does respect for theocratic headship reveal our love for Jehovah’s way of ruling?
15 What is our response to divinely authorized headship? By our respectful cooperation, we show our support for Jehovah’s sovereignty. Even if we do not fully understand or agree with a decision, we will still want to support theocratic order. That is quite different from the way of the world, but it is the way of life under Jehovah’s rulership. (Eph. 5:22, 23; 6:1-3; Heb. 13:17) We benefit from doing so, for God has our interests at heart.

 

So does this mean that if you do not agree with the "err" that is presented, you still must support it? YES it does. It states that if we do not, then we are not showing support or cooperation for Jehovah's sovereignty. So somehow the sovereignty of Jehovah is at stake if we do not side with the wt.  

Again, no proof that ANYONE authorized this leadership but they themselves. 

 

lets not forget:

Watchtower (Study) 15 November 2013, page 20

(3) At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20131115/seven-shepherds-eight-dukes/

 

This is the blind leading those who must remain "blind" to the errors in teaching taught blindly...all because God has one's interests at heart?

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On 1/15/2017 at 7:19 PM, Anna said:

In the past months, there have been quite a few study articles with regard to the GB/Slave. I am trying to get an overall  understanding of 2 particular WT articles on this one topic, so that two quotes from the WTs harmonize. 

Today's WT study (Nov 2016) p.15 par.9:  "Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food. Since 1919, the glorified Jesus Christ has been using that slave to help his followers understand God’s own Book and heed its directives.’"

And

WT Feb.2017 p.26. par.12 " The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870".

It seems that the key to making sense of these 2 seemingly opposing quotes is in the above paragraph if we continue reading: " Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food".

The WT's statements about the GB are a logical fallacy. That is why you are having difficult harmonizing your beliefs.

  1. "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food." Watchtower 2017 Feb p.26
  2. "Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" Watchtower 2009 2/15 p. 24-28

It's the textbook example of cognitive dissonance: believing in contradictory ideas at the cost of one's mental state. There is a reason why JWs struggle in the organization. They are being given mixed signals under their leadership. JWs are expected to be understanding of the GB's mistakes while also fully compliant to their direction. Imagine having a spouse that demands total obedience but also expects love and understanding when wrong. People would call that an unhealthy relationship with one partner holding all the power.

One wonders why Jehovah God appointed fallible, uninspired men over his people when he was perfectly capable of accurately conveying his truths to the writers of the Bible? There is no scriptural precedent for the idea of unquestioned obedience to a group of uninspired men. There is no scriptural precedent to putting obedience to men above scriptural truth. 

Complete trust in someone or some group requires strong support. Trust in the GB can't come from its history of unwavering doctrine, because the GB acknowledges it has made errors in doctrine and changes have been made. Trust also can't come from the GB's prophet status, because the GB acknowledges it is not inspired by God. 

So, what does the WT offer as support for complete trust in the GB?

  1. The preaching work: "...the faithful and discreet slave has been able to accomplish in giving a worldwide witness about Jehovah God, his Son, and the Kingdom. Jehovah’s worshippers are actively proclaiming the Kingdom message in over 230 lands and island groups." 2009 2/15 p. 24-28
  2. The growth in members: "...In the last 15 years, the number of congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide has grown from some 70,000 to over 100,000—an increase of over 40 percent. And what about the new disciples added? Nearly 4.5 million disciples were baptized in the last 15 years—an average of more than 800 a day." 2009 2/15 p. 24-28

This 'support' is brought into question when it is pointed out that other Christian denominations engage in forms of preaching work all around the world. For many years, the JW organization did have tremendous growth, but that growth has slowed in recent years and is even in decline in some countries. The fastest growing Christian denominations in America are Catholics and Evangelicals. (The fastest growing religion in the world is Islam.) So, this support is weak at best, and it doesn't change the logical paradox the GB expects all JWs to accept.

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On 2/1/2017 at 5:55 PM, Outta Here said:

I have no time to reinvent the wheel at the moment so I will refer you to the appropriate Watchtower Article on this matter:

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013533

According to that article, the slave is one who is anointed. So why are there not 144k governing body members, and why aren't any women on this governing body?

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On 6/3/2019 at 11:31 PM, Noble Berean said:

The WT's statements about the GB are a logical fallacy. That is why you are having difficult harmonizing your beliefs.

  1. "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food." Watchtower 2017 Feb p.26
  2. "Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" Watchtower 2009 2/15 p. 24-28

It's the textbook example of cognitive dissonance: believing in contradictory ideas at the cost of one's mental state. There is a reason why JWs struggle in the organization. They are being given mixed signals under their leadership. JWs are expected to be understanding of the GB's mistakes while also fully compliant to their direction. Imagine having a spouse that demands total obedience but also expects love and understanding when wrong. People would call that an unhealthy relationship with one partner holding all the power.

One wonders why Jehovah God appointed fallible, uninspired men over his people when he was perfectly capable of accurately conveying his truths to the writers of the Bible? There is no scriptural precedent for the idea of unquestioned obedience to a group of uninspired men. There is no scriptural precedent to putting obedience to men above scriptural truth. 

Complete trust in someone or some group requires strong support. Trust in the GB can't come from its history of unwavering doctrine, because the GB acknowledges it has made errors in doctrine and changes have been made. Trust also can't come from the GB's prophet status, because the GB acknowledges it is not inspired by God. 

So, what does the WT offer as support for complete trust in the GB?

  1. The preaching work: "...the faithful and discreet slave has been able to accomplish in giving a worldwide witness about Jehovah God, his Son, and the Kingdom. Jehovah’s worshippers are actively proclaiming the Kingdom message in over 230 lands and island groups." 2009 2/15 p. 24-28
  2. The growth in members: "...In the last 15 years, the number of congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide has grown from some 70,000 to over 100,000—an increase of over 40 percent. And what about the new disciples added? Nearly 4.5 million disciples were baptized in the last 15 years—an average of more than 800 a day." 2009 2/15 p. 24-28

This 'support' is brought into question when it is pointed out that other Christian denominations engage in forms of preaching work all around the world. For many years, the JW organization did have tremendous growth, but that growth has slowed in recent years and is even in decline in some countries. The fastest growing Christian denominations in America are Catholics and Evangelicals. (The fastest growing religion in the world is Islam.) So, this support is weak at best, and it doesn't change the logical paradox the GB expects all JWs to accept.

I agree with some of your points. But your comment has also helped me to see things I would have otherwise not realised. Right now I do not have time to respond properly as we have visitors out of town staying with us. But I promise I will get around to it soon!

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On 1/16/2017 at 12:19 AM, Anna said:

It seems that the key to making sense of these 2 seemingly opposing quotes is in the above paragraph if we continue reading: " Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food".

Really, looking at all these comments, I am surprised that there could be a problem with understanding how Jehovah might use a particular channel to communicate with his people on earth. Surely you don't think that he is on the case all the time do you? Whatever for? It is clear that there is an organised way of keeping everyone on the same page.Most of the direction is left for the brothers to figure out what is best in accord with Bible principles. And to learn from their mistakes, which is something we all do. Jehovah through Jesus will keep things on track where necessary, and this the way they do it. The scripture says food is provided at the proper time, not ALL the time. Our respect is demonstrated in sticking with the arrangement. Where is  the big deal??

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On 6/5/2019 at 9:00 AM, Matthew9969 said:

According to that article, the slave is one who is anointed. So why are there not 144k governing body members, and why aren't any women on this governing body? 

You know what the Bible says about being envious .....

It was considered among the First Century Christians, but as it turned out all the women considered had PMS envy.

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On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

So, with that said, I think one way of looking at the overall picture is to see these men in the position of keeping order.

This is one general claim that can be/need to be  used  in the system, of all kind.

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

Taking a stand means that we will sometimes discover we took the wrong stand, but it also has an advantage in making our beliefs transparent. If a doctrinal stand is taken, our thinking is clearer on it, and contradictions show up more easily. It would be easy to be 100% accurate by taking a less dogmatic stand on many things. But this makes it harder to test whether we are thinking correctly and reasonably on some of our beliefs.

 

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

Sometimes you get to a point where you just need to take a stand and say that John must be in a blue house, for example, even if you don't know for sure, so that you can properly test if it works.

 

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

o, we can have doctrinal claims that are still in the middle of such testing. We took a stand, and it clarifies our position so that it can be more clearly tested.

 

On 1/16/2017 at 4:03 AM, JW Insider said:

f we (as an organization) take a stand, it should be faster to get to a point where we can take a consistent stand on all important matters of doctrine and teaching. This assumes that haughtiness and love of tradition don't get in the way of change. And that gets back to having the right kinds of personalities taking the lead.

If i may say, it seems that JW religion is one Socio-Religious International Experiment. 

And as such, with promises made by imperfect and erroneous leaders, promises in the name of God/Jesus, they offer leadership with warning (warning clearly made from 2017 - not before and not on a day of your baptismal promises, after long decades of "perfect meals" they were bringing to table) how "Jesus not promised perfect food". /WHAT VERSES in Bible CARRYING THIS JESUS PROMISE ABOUT NOT PROMISE?

Again we see, they changed rhetoric. And again, this was done in Jesus name.

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On 2/1/2017 at 1:41 AM, Outta Here said:

As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired.

In my amateur opinion: two expressions with the same meaning :))))

On 2/1/2017 at 1:41 AM, Outta Here said:

In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress.

Are you serious?

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))

 

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