How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Nooooo, that is implication resulted, arise from your sentence

The implication that God's happiness depends on men? No, sorry, not my view anywhere as far as I can see. Not intentionally anyway.  

Shame. It seems I don't understand you....and..... you don't understand me.

I will state my view on this matter clearly so there is no mistaken implication.  Jehovah's happiness DOES NOT depend upon men. There. Is that clear enough? So what was the point you were making on this?

[Anna]

16 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

TO UNDERSTAND WHAT JESUS OR THE APOSTLES REALLY MEANT, YOU HAVE TO "GET INTO THE MIND" OF THOSE THAT WERE BEING SPOKEN TO AT THE TIME.

HOW DID THEY UNDERSTAND IT ?

Agree!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Bears Repeating: Two good examplews.

[Srecko Sostar]

@Outta Here 1st quote

How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?

This is the question here.

As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired. This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress. 

**** my green color

@Ou tta 2nd quote

??? I think I said that Jehovah is happy with the overall progress of His purpose and that will always govern in what He chooses to intervene. In other words, as He always has the successful outcome of His purpose in view, He is always happy with what He allows. Of course the negative aspects and consequences of human behaviour do not make Him happy (compare Ps.119:136). Surely you know that???

He will indeed intervene in the affairs of all mankind soon. The outcome of that intervention will make him happier still, although there are some who feel otherwise.

**** my green color

my response: 

Are you serious?

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))

your response on this part:

Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?

You are referring to the nature of Jehovah's happines here I think? If that is the case then I don't apply it in such a narrrow context.

 

 :))))) now is time for real time :)))))

Somehow You start to involve wording, Nature of JHVH happiness, in question i put. I don't now why. Because you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness). Even more, you go further and gave idea how there is gradation in this emotional state of God (happy - happier) :))) So, Who is that guy who talking about God's Nature? You or Me? :))

 You made it clear that you talking about 2 different progress that is going on, and about 2 reasons for God's happiness. And how god's happiness is also visible because, supposed progress, taking place . Perhaps His happiness about this two things is VISIBLE only TO You. :)))  and to WTJWORG.

God is Happy with current progress ( here you talking  about progress inside WTJWORG).

God is happy with the overall progress of His purpose (here you talking, i guess, from Adam and Eve to nowadays)   

Somehow you entered in God's Mind and Emotions (aka God's Nature) and made inspection, insight of His Will, and then came before all of us here with comment even statement how God is satisfied with this 2 particular things.  

- to laugh or to cry, question is now - 

First of all, you made connection between WTJWORG activity, you called that PROGRESS with one EMOTIONAL STATE of JHVH Nature, aka happiness. This connection you have produced, was been reason for my next response i made to you:    In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :))  

I hope how this retrospective is helpful for our conversation :))))) stay well!

 

[Srecko Sostar]

21 hours ago, Outta Here said:

I will state my view on this matter clearly so there is no mistaken implication.  Jehovah's happiness DOES NOT depend upon men. There. Is that clear enough? So what was the point you were making on this?

If you don't mind i would like to say my opinion and some short thoughts about this interesting and perhaps important issue, if not for all people but maybe for some. 

If we go from premise how God is perfect and self sufficient in all things, than we maybe may take this strong and clear view, you said, as final thing, and stop right there. That reaction, of course, would not erase possibility to ask some questions. Or at least One question which will Shake this sort of idea you presented.

What is that question? You can find this, not only interesting question, but in fact crucial, life important question, in God's command, request. This was expressed in verses:

   “Hear, O Israel: ^[a]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! ⁵ You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.  - Deuteronomy book   

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ ³⁸ This is the first and great commandment. - Mathew book

If you put attention on Jew Law you will notice how Law said, among many other things that are OBLIGATIONS, Love is something that a person feels morally or legally forced to do!  

Imagine, God command you to love him! I ask you and anyone else: Can you love somebody, anyone on command???!! 

On one side, this same God give you free will, and filled you with various emotions. You have Mind and have freedom to choose and God respect your choice. Does  Emotions have not that same freedom? 

As next argument in, for, this same issue we find this Bible statement: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. - Genesis book

People would agree in interpretation how this means that God transferred His attributes to humans. Among them is Love. Humans imitate, expressed God's attributes in their life. Love and hate, creating and destroying, smiling and crying and so on. While doing this, humans also have Big Need to Be Loved. If they are Not Loved things coming to be bad, behavior changes, interactions are problematic and other things are happens.

In this period when there is Lack of Love, when is Time Without Love, in both direction, no matter is it problem that You Do Not Give Love or Other Don't Give Their Love, YOU/WE FEEL UNHAPPY. 

Well, because all this i think that you missed to see some things, when you gave unmistakable stated view about significance/importance of Love - Humans - God connections, interactions, interdependence. 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Srecko Sostar That is a fantastic comment. Thank you for the thought you have put into that.

Billy the Kid obviously feels the lack of love for him, and so has to downvote you. 

We all need love and maybe God needs love from humans as you say.  

It does seem strange that God demanded love from the Nation of Israel. 

I have said previously that the Jews were in a much different situation to us. The Jews were born into the Law and had to serve God, whereas we can chose to serve God or not. 

[Evacuated]

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness)

Nature = the basic or inherent features, character, or qualities of something. Yep. That was me.

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Somehow You start to involve wording, Nature of JHVH happiness, in question i put. I don't now why. Because you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness).

Don't understand this. I think @Anna raised the topic?

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps His happiness about this two things is VISIBLE only TO You.

God's happiness is visible to me. Yes, and anyone else who wants to see it. 1Tim.1:11.

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

God is Happy with current progress ( here you talking  about progress inside WTJWORG).

God is happy with the overall progress of His purpose (here you talking, i guess, from Adam and Eve to nowadays)   

You quote my statements in bold which is very useful. Thanks for that.

Just to emphasize, the happy God Jehovah is always happy with the the current and overall progress of his purpose. His name implies that he cannot fail in anything that he intends to accomplish, in fact that is why he is stated as being a god of "eternal purpose" in connection specifically with Christ. Your bracketed comments miss the mark rather, but Eph.3:11 should clarify.

The other comments you make seem to be using my comments as some sort of springboard for your views? as below:

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

i would like to say my opinion and some short thoughts about this interesting and perhaps important issue, if not for all people but maybe for some. 

I have to say that sadly, I just do not follow your reasoning at all. You seem to have what appears to be something driving a rant against what you term as "WTJWORG", and then a mini dissertation on what you understand regarding the words expressed in the books of Deuteronomy and Matthew regarding the definition of the "nature" (sorry if that is a negative buzzword for you) of the human expression of love for God. You have lost me Srecko.

Anyway. As you say, surely some here will get your drift. 

PS. There. Someone has already posted. So. You are not alone.........

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

17 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Srecko Sostar That is a fantastic comment. Thank you for the thought you have put into that.

Billy the Kid obviously feels the lack of love for him, and so has to downvote you. 

We all need love and maybe God needs love from humans as you say.  

It does seem strange that God demanded love from the Nation of Israel. 

I have said previously that the Jews were in a much different situation to us. The Jews were born into the Law and had to serve God, whereas we can chose to serve God or not. 

Thank you John! 

Yeah, thoughts that circled in my mind about this in recent years, made me to think how God "desperately" need love from creatures He brought to existence - Humans (and Angels).

In case of old Jew, he incorporated, built this in legislative. I wander why. Because, from our present time aspects, perspective and after Jesus' Teachings, all is in free will, free wish, to respect, to serving god "from Love". Idea of Love including Free Choice. Because without such freedom to make decision of that sort/ thing,  seems questionable, to me at least.

 Love is Best, Ultimate, Perfect, Divine state of Soul. That is, i don't know, but i guess, Maximum what we can achieved in lifetime.

For me, God looking for such Love. He needs that Love. What would happened if we don't give Him Love?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The 2017 Declaration is as close of an apology as one will ever get from the Governing Body for 100 and more years of being clueless busybodies, screwing with people's lives.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

... and I worry not that Billy or Foreigner down votes EVERYTHING that does not fit their corporate agendas ... eventually they will run out of drool, and when they sleep, the other eye stops twitching.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Love is Best, Ultimate, Perfect, Divine state of Soul. That is, i don't know, but i guess, Maximum what we can achieved in lifetime.

For me, God looking for such Love. He needs that Love. What would happened if we don't give Him Love?

The way I see it, Jehovah has an abundance of love about the things he cares about, and actually needs NOTHING from us.

Nothing whatsoever.  

It's like my 18 pet Bantam chickens ... (who I just finished feeding a whole banana split down the middle, a large handful of broccoli, and two giant strawberries, and gave them more commercial chicken feed, and clean water ....).

I want the very best for them, but in reality need NOTHING from them. I am not going to eat the eggs, or the chickens.  They are just fun to watch grow and interact with me and my wife, and each other.   There is no point whatsoever to it ... other than me watch them enjoy their short (about 6 years) life.

Jehovah does not get pouty, and petulant, and get depressed when we do not love him.

... think not about pettiness and pouty .... think Poultry !

It's just like the Sabbath.

The Sabbath regulation was made for mankind .... mankind was NOT made for the Sabbath.

Jehovah will not get his feelings hurt, and start hurling lightning bolts, or go in the corner, and cry because we are not giving him enough adoration.

HE ENCOURAGES ADORATION ONLY BECAUSE IT REPROGRAMS US NOT TO BE SO NASTY AND SELF CENTERED! ( ... with some notable exceptions ...)

Not because He needs adoration !

 

 

[Witness]

On 1/31/2017 at 4:41 PM, Outta Here said:

 This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress.

Not necessarily, and we know the prophets gave us insight into the last days.

Call to me when trouble comes;
    I will save you,
    and you will praise me.”

 But God says to the wicked,
    “Why should you recite my commandments?
    Why should you talk about my covenant?
 You refuse to let me correct you;
    you reject my commands.
 You become the friend of every thief you see,
    and you associate with adulterers.

 “You are always ready to speak evil;
    you never hesitate to tell lies.
 You are ready to accuse your own relatives
  and to find fault with them.
 You have done all this, and I have said nothing,
    so you thought that I am like you.
But now I reprimand you
    and make the matter plain to you.  Ps 50:14-21

 

God says,

“For a long time I kept silent;
    I did not answer my people.
But now the time to act has come;
  I cry out like a woman in labor.
I will destroy the hills and mountains
    and dry up the grass and trees.
I will turn the river valleys into deserts
    and dry up the pools of water.

“I will lead my blind people
    by roads they have never traveled.
I will turn their darkness into light
    and make rough country smooth before them.
These are my promises,
    and I will keep them without fail.
 All who trust in idols,
    who call images their gods,
    will be humiliated and disgraced.”  Isa 42:14-17