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A countdown to Armageddon

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Here's something you may not have seen, from the JW archives, a countdown to Armegeddon as we once believed would occur in oct 1914. Our brothers used this to help them keep track on their faith. Just a bit of JW history. #jw #jworg #jw_witnesses #jwfamily #armageddon #1914 #bible #faith #love #peace #study #biblestudy #jesus #return #prophesy #god #history #spiritual #faith #faithful #optimism #positive #truth #vision

Here's something you may not have seen, from the JW archives, a countdown to Armegeddon as we once believed would occur in oct 1914. Our brothers used this to help them keep track on their faith. Just a bit of JW history.

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    • By John Paul
      People here should go back and reread their historical understanding of Russell. He had a wait and see attitude about 1914 while he had claimed Jesus presence was felt in 1874. That of course had nothing to do with Jesus being enthroned in 1914, nor does it revise a historical fact world war one started in 1914.
      “CHRONOLOGY--Beginning or End of Time of Trouble Re 1914.
      Q71:1: QUESTION (1905)--1--Will the time of trouble begin or end in 1914 and why?
      ANSWER--We answer that there have been times of trouble this good while. (You know we have a trouble corner over there, and he smiled and pointed over to his little office.) There have been and there will be times of trouble as far as the Church is concerned. Look at the persecutions. But the reference here, and properly enough, is to the "Great Time of Trouble" that is referred to in Daniel, twelfth chapter, where he says, "there shall be a time of trouble such as never was before," and our Lord adds, "No and never shall be again." Well that is the time of trouble that is in our minds, and it will not begin nor end in 1914. The time of trouble may be a beginning now, but those beginnings are only leading up to the real trouble.
      Oct. 15, 1913 WT p.5336
      The divine plan presented in the STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES. We are advised that it give's seven different corroborative proofs that the close of the year 1914--namely, about October, 1914-will mark the closing of the Times of the Gentiles, and the beginning of the masonic reign. Many of the dear friends are rejoicing in these cobnrrohon1tions.
      We wish still, however, to reiterate what we have said from the first respecting the date of the close of the Times of the Gentiles; namely, that the calculations as we presented them in Vol. II, STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES, are the truth to the best of our knowledge and belief. Nevertheless, there is enough uncertainty about the matter of chronology to make it a matter of faith rather than of positive knowledge. We remind our readers that our consecration to the Lord is not to October, 1914, nor to any other time except that mentioned by the Savior'' Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.' '-Rev. 2:10.
      Therefore, Russell never implied the world would end in 1914.
      However, some copies of the 1913 WT omit the Morton Great Pyramid reference by some Bible Student Associations for unknown reason. Then those flat out lies that people keep telling themselves, are made by people that have inherited a bias with worthless research.
      What should be noted, Russell didn’t control all the independent churches, and how they viewed their own understanding of prophecy.
      No more than overthinking about 1975, and 2000. The Org never claimed those dates would bring the end of the world. 1975 was the 6000 years mark and the 2000 was revealed to hold significance to certain “other” religious sects and some doomsayers in which the Org spoke about.
      Aside from the obvious Y2K scare?
      https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-was-the-y2k-scare.html
      The Org was making sure people understood what a true apocalypse would entail.
      *** w99 12/1 p. 5 Why the Apocalypse Scare? ***
      Similarly today, there are religious and secular fears that the year 2000 or 2001 will bring with it a terrifying apocalypse. But are these fears justified? And is the message contained in the Bible book of Revelation, or Apocalypse, something to be feared or, on the contrary, is it something we should hope for? Please read on.
      *** g98 5/8 p. 21 How Significant Is the Year 2000? ***
      Granted, the Bible talks about the time when Jehovah God will intervene in human affairs by removing badness and ushering in a new world. Bible prophecy speaks of “the time of the end,” “the conclusion of the system of things,” “the last days,” and “the day of Jehovah.” (Daniel 8:17; Matthew 24:3; 2 Timothy 3:1; 2 Peter 3:12) However, the “end” prophesied in the Bible is not connected in any way to the year 2000. There is nothing in the Scriptures ascribing special significance to the end of the second millennium as calculated by the Gregorian calendar.
      Therefore, the Org was NOT being vague in both instances. I believe evidence was given about 1975 in a 1974 article submitted here that has been erased, that debunks that theory. I will re-post the Article from 1974. Why people keep bringing it up as though it still has conclusive evidence is beyond logic.
      *** w74 10/15 p. 635 Growing in Appreciation for the “Divine Purpose” ***
      The publications of Jehovah’s witnesses have shown that, according to Bible chronology, it appears that 6,000 years of man’s existence will be completed in the mid-1970’s. But these publications have never said that the world’s end would come then. Nevertheless, there has been considerable individual speculation on the matter. So the assembly presentation “Why We Have Not Been Told ‘That Day and Hour’” was very timely. It emphasized that we do not know the exact time when God will bring the end. All we know is that the end will come within the generation that sees fulfilled on it the sign that Jesus Christ said would then be in evidence. (See Matthew chapters 24, 25.) All indications are that the fulfillment of this sign began in 1914. So we can be confident that the end is near; we do not have the slightest doubt that God will bring it about, the speaker stressed. But we have to wait and see exactly when, in the meantime keeping busy in God’s service
      Once again, to be clear, the Watchtower made it crystal clear in late 1974 about 1975. Therefore, it is a careless and an unconscionable act by which certain witnesses would consider a false theory by opposers.
    • By Witness
      Except for some time-consuming events, my husband and I have traveled across the heart of the state of Nevada, numerous times per year, for the last fifteen years. It can be a long, lonely jaunt, but with periods of peace. We know where to look for herds of sheep wandering freely without fences, taking their time in maneuvering to a fresh crop of grass on other side of the highway. We’ve witnessed rogue sheepdogs seemingly searching for their flock. We’ve got it down where the elk hang out, the pronghorn, as well as the long straight stretches that we wish would end sooner than they do. I know I’ve seen every sign along that highway; but their appearance doesn’t always register in the brain. During this last trip, one rather small sign took on a different meaning for me. Besides highway markers pointing to the major natural attractions, there are minor signs directing the way to areas such as Fish Creek, Robert’s Creek, Duckwater; and the one that caught my eye on this last journey, Blind Valley. What was someone’s reason for naming it such? Is it a valley hidden from the view of the highway? Was it a land purchase made sight unseen? Most likely, fish are found in Fish Creek, ducks are found at Duckwater. Robert might even be found at Robert’s Creek. Could it be that someone blind, lives in Blind Valley?
      How well the name “Blind Valley” designates a symbolic valley where multitudes within it are found to be spiritually blind - the Bible’s “valley of decision”.
      “Come quickly, all you nations from every side,
      and assemble there.
      Bring down your warriors, Lord!
      12 “Let the nations be roused;
      let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
      for there I will sit
      to judge all the nations on every side.
      13 Swing the sickle,
      for the harvest is ripe.
      Come, trample the grapes,
      for the winepress is full
      and the vats overflow—
      so great is their wickedness!”
      14 Multitudes, multitudes
      in the valley of decision!
      For the day of the Lord is near
      in the valley of decision.” Joel 3:11-14
      During this war of Armageddon, the “abundant” or “great number” found in this valley of decision, have chosen to remain spiritually blind to the truth presented before them. God’s final judgment that they face, involves their choice of teachings derived from anointed ones who speak truth or lies; lasting, good “fruit”, or rotten fruit from bad “trees”; spiritually equipped either with God’s Spirit or that of Satan’s, to battle against their opponent. (Matt 7:20; Eph 6:12-17; Rev 16:13,14;17:14; 19:11)
      The question is, why would someone desire to remain blind to God’s truth, resulting in permanent blindness? (Matt 13:14,15,16; 2 Cor 4:4; 1 Tim 4:1,2)
      How does one’s heart become a “weed” during this final harvest? (Matt 13:24-29)
      The following quote may help reveal why. It is taken from an interview with a JW last month, on the organization’s broadcasting channel. He states:
      “The ambitions that I had before, that may have been obtainable, became second place. Now it was to have a simple life, to walk with the organization and to raise my children in the truth”.
      Does this statement portray the general feeling of JWs? I think so, otherwise they would readily accept the choice to leave the organization and serve God without it, and without the repercussion of shunning. Yet, we know doing so, is not a simple decision to accept. (Dan 12:1; Matt 24:21; Rev 9:4-6) It has been made perfectly clear by its leaders, that without “moving ahead” with the organization, eternal life is not possible. (2 Cor 11:4; Col 2:8)
      So, undoubtedly, it is perceived that ‘walking with the organization’ and bearing its brand on one’s mind and heart, equates with walking with God in truth. (Isa 42:8; Jer 2:8; Deut 11:18; Rev 13:4,16) Doing so, keeps the decisions as a faithful member of the organization, “simple”, no matter what fallacies may be taught throughout the years. (Jer 18:15; 2:13)
      The weapon used by Satan in this war of truth against lies, is the organization; constructed with one purpose, to mislead and subsequently persecute the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”. (Gen 3:15; Dan 11:10; 12:4; 8:15,17; Rev 1:1; 20:7-9)
      A hunter uses camouflage to disguise himself from the prey. A bird hunter also uses decoys to attract the prey into believing he is joining in with his fellow birds. How naive it is, to believe Satan would not also utilize a bait of truth and the tactic of disguise, using elements at his fingertips. This allows him to build a decoy on the grandest scale possible in his realm. (Amos 3:5; Ps 140:4,5; Prov 22:5; Rev 9:3,10)
      He has successfully created a delusion to sift each anointed heart as “wheat”, which our God of justice, allows to occur. (Amos 9:9; 2 Thess 2:10-12) His “ministers of light” call it, “the truth”. (2 Pet 2:2; Rev 13:5,6)
      “sift”: “shake in a sieve”/”inward agitation to try one's faith to the verge of overthrow”
      If we give in to “walking with the organization”, our faith in God has been overthrown – conquered.
      Let’s compare the JWs’s testimony with scripture. To God’s authentic anointed “witnesses”, He declares,
      I, I am YHVH,
      and there is no other Savior but Me.
      I ALONE declared, saved, and proclaimed—
      and not some foreign god among you.
      So you are My witnesses”—
      this is the Lord’s declaration—
      “and I am God.” Isa 43:11,12
      Although he may speak of God, the man interviewed revealed what lies in the deep-seated intentions of his heart. (Matt 15:18,19; Luke 6:45) It is evident that it is idolatry toward an organization.  He believes he cannot obtain eternal life without it.  
      Isa 43:11,12 speaks of a “foreign god”, with a footnote that refers to “foreigners”. There are “foreigners/foreign gods among God’s true “witnesses”, His Temple priesthood. (Jer 2:11) They have secured the priesthood from whom it rightly belongs. (Isa 51:23; Mark 13:14; Rev 11:1,2)
      Their magnified presence signifies the very organization that JWs adhere to. (Exod 20:5; Rev 13:15) It is the elder body, the “Gentile” “man of lawlessness” that opposes “and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thess 2:4; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)
      Left unchecked, Satan’s ruse would fully “devour Jacob”. (Jer 10:23-25)
      Only a remnant is prophesied to survive. (Isa 10:19; Amos 7:1,2; Rev 9:3,4; 3:18;7:13-15)
      The JW interviewed puts his faith in an organization built by spiritually unqualified men. (Num 18:7; 2 Chron 13:9; Ezek 44:7-9) He has allowed it to trap, rule over, and lead him into serving a “foreign god”.
      “But I have a few things against you. You have some there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block (“to place a trap”) in front of the Israelites: to eat meat sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality.” Rev 2:14
      This is an act of blasphemy against YHVH and His decrees concerning His Temple. (Dan 11:31; 1 Cor 3:16,17) If we are to envision this idolatry, it must be our heart’s desire to love God and His decrees, over those of men. (Exod 34:14; 2 Tim 4:3; Tit 1:9)
       
      As each prophet/"tree" bears "fruit"/teachings,
      and this war of words escalates; God foresaw that the ruling wicked would persecute the faithful, on the basis of false doctrines (Matt 24:49; Ezek 38:21; 1 John 3:12; Rev 13:15; 11:3,7; 16:13,14; 17:14; 19:11,14; 6:9,11; John 16:2; Matt 5:11,12; 23:37; Acts 7:52; Rev 11:8; Dan 7:21,23,25; Dan 8:12)
      The faithful retaliate with the sword of God's Word of Truth. (Dan 11:32,33; 2 Cor 10:4,5; 6:7; Heb 4:12; Eph 6:17; Rev 19:19,15,20; 11:5,3,4)
      As this battle between truth and lies occurs, the final harvest/judgment of "fruit"/teachings/words occurs (Matt 12:36,37,34,35; Prov 18:21; Matt 7:17) in the symbolic "valley of decision" (Heb 4:13; Rom 14:12; 2 Cor 5:10; Prov 16:4; Rev 22:12; Dan 7:22).  
      Pearl Doxsey – “What is Armageddon?”
      Should anyone earnestly yearn to know Christ’s authentic truths, they would be granted that understanding. Those who choose to remain in darkness, close-minded to God’s decrees, are among the blind judged in the valley of decision.
       Hades when translated, means "not perceiving". It is the consignment of all those born under sin, and means to be under a blanket of spiritual darkness, ignorance, and confusion. Only those granted light, truth, and understanding, are figuratively rescued from the realm of Hades.

      When Jesus tells us that he has the keys to Hades/Abyss... this means that he has the power and authority to release whom he chooses, from spiritual darkness... and transfer them into his kingdom of light and life (Col 1:13; Luke 8:10) those who are repentant. Jesus also has the authority and power to lock up others... or to leave them there, in ignorance and spiritual darkness (Matt 13:10,11,13-16; Jude 1:13; John 12:35) those hard-hearted who are not repentant. Such ones remain under the authority and power of the Devil (2 Cor 4:4; John 3:18).  
      When Rev 20:1 tells us that the chain of restraint that Jesus possesses is "great"; this points to the ability of Jesus, to prevent understanding and perception among the blind, but proud (John 9:41). When Jesus wraps that symbolic chain around the Devil, and then casts the Devil into the Abyss/Hades... this depicts for us, Satan's blind inability to mislead those whom Jesus rescues from darkness... because it is now Satan who is overcome by the blind confusion of his own realm.
      Jesus also shares his keys to release from the abyss (or bind in chains of ignorance) (Matt 16:19; 18:18), those whom his enlightened brothers judge as repentant (John 20:23) and worthy of the treasures of truth which they are empowered by Jesus, to impart (Matt 10:7,11-14; 7:6).
      Rev 20:1
      Pearl Doxsey
       
      Idolatry among Israel happened continually. (2 Kings 17:9; Judges 10:13-16; Neh 9:26,28; Hos 1:1,2; Jer 2:28; Ps 78:35-37) Today’s spiritual “Israel” and companions in the organization have also blindly fallen into idolatry, by ‘walking with the organization’. It is a “god” possibly not previously known, before dedicating themselves at baptism and serving this god through their necessary, various activities laid out for them by a Harlot/false prophet. (Matt 24:11,12; Luke 21:8; 2 Thess 2:1-3; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 13:11-14,16-18)
      “If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a *sign or wonder to you, 2 and that sign or wonder he has promised you comes about, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us worship them,’ 3 do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. 4 You must follow the Lord your God and fear Him. You must keep His commands and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and remain faithful to Him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he has urged *rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the place of slavery, to turn you from the way the Lord your God has commanded you to walk. You must purge the evil from you.” Deut 13:1-5
      The organization appears as an apparent ‘simple’, wide open, welcoming door; yet, it if one chooses to remain blind to its true intention, it will lead to one’s downfall. (Luke 13:22-27; John 10:9,10 )
      “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the *rebellion comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of *false miracles, signs, and wonders, 10 and with every unrighteous deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved.” 2 Thess 2:3,9,10
      “Mankind, He has told you what is good
      and what it is the Lord requires of you:
      to act justly,
      to love faithfulness,
      and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8
       
      WALKING WITH THE ORGANIZATION CANNOT EQUATE TO WALKING WITH GOD.
      “Take delight in the Lord, and HE will give you your heart’s desires”. Ps 37:4 
       
      Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot –
      “Wheat and Weed Seeds Grow Up Together”
      "Abomination of Desolation"

       
    • Guest
      By Guest
      The Year 2038 problem is an issue for computing and data storage situations in which time values are stored or calculated as a signed 32-bit integer, and this number is interpreted as the number of seconds since 00:00:00 UTC on 1 January 1970 (the epoch).[1] Such implementations cannot encode times after 03:14:07 UTC on 19 January 2038, a problem similar to but not entirely analogous to the Y2K problem (also known as the Millennium Bug), in which 2-digit values representing the number of years since 1900 could not encode the year 2000 or later. Most 32-bit Unix-like systems store and manipulate time in this Unix time format, so the year 2038 problem is sometimes referred to as the Unix Millennium Bug by association.

      Animation showing how the date would reset, represented as a signed 32-bit integer (at 03:14:08 UTC on 19 January 2038).
      Technical cause
      The latest time that can be represented in Unix's signed 32-bit integer time format is 03:14:07 UTC on Tuesday, 19 January 2038 (231-1 = 2,147,483,647 seconds after 1 January 1970).[2] Times beyond that will wrap around and be stored internally as a negative number, which these systems will interpret as having occurred on 13 December 1901 rather than 19 January 2038. This is caused by integer overflow. The counter runs out of usable digit bits, flips the sign bit instead, and reports a maximally negative number (continuing to count up, toward zero). Resulting erroneous calculations on such systems are likely to cause problems for users and other relying parties.
      Programs that work with future dates will begin to run into problems sooner; for example a program that works with dates 20 years in the future will have to be fixed no later than 2018.
      Early problems
      In May 2006, reports surfaced of an early manifestation of the Y2038 problem in the AOLserver software. The software was designed with a kludge to handle a database request that should "never" time out. Rather than specifically handling this special case, the initial design simply specified an arbitrary time-out date in the future. The default configuration for the server specified that the request should time out after one billion seconds. One billion seconds (approximately thirty-two years) after 9:27.28 pm on 12 May 2006 is beyond the 2038 cutoff date. Thus, after this time, the time-out calculation overflowed and returned a date that was actually in the past, causing the software to crash. When the problem was discovered, AOLServer operators had to edit the configuration file and set the time-out to a lower value.[3][4]
      Players of games or apps which are programmed to impose waiting periods[5] are running into this problem when they attempt to work around the waiting period on devices which harbor the coding, by manually setting their devices (such as the Nexus 7[6]) to a date past 19 January 2038, but are unable to do so, since a 32-bit Unix time format is being used.
      Vulnerable systems
      Embedded systems that use dates for either computation or diagnostic logging are most likely to be affected by the 2038 bug.
      Many transportation systems from flight to automobiles use embedded systems extensively. In automotive systems, this may include anti-lock braking system (ABS), electronic stability control (ESC/ESP), traction control (TCS) and automatic four-wheel drive; aircraft may use inertial guidance systems and GPS receivers. However this does not imply that all these systems will suffer from the bug. Many such systems will not require access to dates. For those that do, those systems which only track the difference between times/dates and not absolute times/dates will, by the nature of the calculation, not experience a problem. This is the case for automotive diagnostics based on legislative standards such as CARB (California Air Resources Board).[7]
      Another major use of embedded systems is in communications devices, including cell phones and Internet appliances (routers, wireless access points, etc.) which rely on storing an accurate time and date and are increasingly based on UNIX-like operating systems. For example, the bug makes some Android devices crash and not restart when the time is changed to that date.[8]
      Despite the modern 18–24 month generational update in computer systems technology, embedded systems are designed to last the lifetime of the machine in which they are a component. It is conceivable that some of these systems may still be in use in 2038. It may be impractical or, in some cases, impossible to upgrade the software running these systems, ultimately requiring replacement if 32-bit time_t limitations are to be corrected.
      MySQL database's built-in functions like UNIX_TIMESTAMP() will return 0 after 03:14:07 UTC on 19 January 2038,[9] though a bug-fix was contributed on 22 March 2017.[10]
      Data structures with time problems
      Many data structures in use today have 32-bit time representations embedded into their structure. A full list of these data structures is virtually impossible to derive but there are well-known data structures that have the Unix time problem:
      file systems (many file systems use only 32 bits to represent times in inodes)
      binary file formats (that use 32-bit time fields)
      databases (that have 32-bit time fields)
      database query languages, like SQL that have UNIX_TIMESTAMP() like commands
      Examples of systems utilizing data structures that may contain 32-bit time representations include:
      COBOL systems of 1970s–1990s vintage that have not been replaced by 2038-compliant systems[citation needed]
      embedded factory, refinery control and monitoring subsystems
      assorted medical devices
      assorted military devices
      Any system making use of data structures containing 32-bit time representations will present risk. The degree of risk is dependent on the mode of failure.
      NTP timestamps
      The Network Time Protocol has a related overflow issue, which manifests itself in 2036, rather than 2038. The 64-bit timestamps used by NTP consist of a 32-bit part for seconds and a 32-bit part for fractional second, giving NTP a time scale that rolls over every 232 seconds (136 years) and a theoretical resolution of 21321 seconds (233 picoseconds). NTP uses an epoch of 1 January 1900. The first rollover occurs in 2036, prior to the UNIX year 2038 problem.
      Implementations should disambiguate NTP time using a knowledge of the approximate time from other sources. Since NTP only works with the differences between timestamps and never their absolute values, the wraparound is invisible as long as the timestamps are within 68 years of each other.
      This means that for NTP the rollover will be invisible for most running systems, since they will have the correct time to within a very small tolerance. However, systems that are starting up need to know the date within no more than 68 years. Given the large allowed error, it is not expected that this is too onerous a requirement. One suggested method is to set the clock to no earlier than the system build date or the release date of the current version of the NTP software. Many systems use a battery-powered hardware clock to avoid this problem.
      Even so, future versions of NTP may extend the time representation to 128 bits: 64 bits for the second and 64 bits for the fractional-second. The current NTP4 format has support for Era Number and Era Offset, that when used properly should aid fixing date rollover issues. According to Mills, "The 64 bit value for the fraction is enough to resolve the amount of time it takes a photon to pass an electron at the speed of light. The 64 bit second value is enough to provide unambiguous time representation until the universe goes dim."[11][note 1]
      Solutions
      There is no universal solution for the Year 2038 problem. Any change to the definition of the time_t data type would result in code compatibility problems in any application in which date and time representations are dependent on the nature of the signed 32-bit time_t integer. For example, changing time_t to an unsigned 32-bit integer, which would extend the range to the year 2106, would adversely affect programs that store, retrieve, or manipulate dates prior to 1970, as such dates are represented by negative numbers. Increasing the size of the time_t type to 64-bit in an existing system would cause incompatible changes to the layout of structures and the binary interface of functions.
      There is also no universal solution for the issue with DVB and ATSC real time transmitted dates due to issues with legacy receivers. The issue has yet to be acknowledged or resolved by either organization. The only workaround would be to discontinue all time-related metadata services such as programming guides and automatic date synchronization after the affected dates. One possible option would be to create new table types for the affected part of the specifications and use ISO 8601 date strings rather than fixed integers—as are used in ISO 9660 and ISO 13346 filesystems.
      Most operating systems designed to run on 64-bit hardware already use signed 64-bit time_t integers. Using a signed 64-bit value introduces a new wraparound date that is over twenty times greater than the estimated age of the universe: approximately 292 billion years from now, at 15:30:08 UTC on Sunday, 4 December 292,277,026,596. The ability to make computations on dates is limited by the fact that tm_year uses a signed 32 bit integer value starting at 1900 for the year. This limits the year to a maximum of 2,147,485,547 (2,147,483,647 + 1900).[12]
      Starting with NetBSD version 6.0 (released in October 2012), the NetBSD operating system uses a 64-bit time_t for both 32-bit and 64-bit architectures. Applications that were compiled for an older NetBSD release with 32-bit time_t are supported via a binary compatibility layer, but such older applications will still suffer from the Year 2038 problem.[13]
      OpenBSD since version 5.5, released in May 2014, also uses a 64-bit time_t for both 32-bit and 64-bit architectures. In contrast to NetBSD, there is no binary compatibility layer. Therefore, applications expecting a 32-bit time_t and applications using anything different from time_t to store time values may break.[14]
      Linux uses a 64-bit time_t for 64-bit architectures only; the pure 32-bit ABI is not changed due to backward compatibility.[15] There is ongoing work, mostly for embedded Linux systems, to support 64-bit time_t on 32-bit architectures, too.[16][17]
      The x32 ABI for Linux (which defines an environment for programs with 32-bit addresses but running the processor in 64-bit mode) uses a 64-bit time_t. Since it was a new environment, there was no need for special compatibility precautions.[15]
      Network File System version 4 has defined its time fields as struct nfstime4 {int64_t seconds; uint32_t nseconds;} since December, 2000.[18] Values greater than zero for the seconds field denote dates after the 0-hour, January 1, 1970. Values less than zero for the seconds field denote dates before the 0-hour, January 1, 1970. In both cases, the nseconds (nanoseconds) field is to be added to the seconds field for the final time representation.
      Alternative proposals have been made (some of which are in use), such as storing either milliseconds or microseconds since an epoch (typically either 1 January 1970 or 1 January 2000) in a signed 64-bit integer, providing a minimum range of 300,000 years.[19][20] Other proposals for new time representations provide different precisions, ranges, and sizes (almost always wider than 32 bits), as well as solving other related problems, such as the handling of leap seconds. In particular, TAI64[21] is an implementation of the Temps Atomique International standard, the current international real-time standard for defining a second and frame of reference.
    • By Jack Ryan
      To all naysayers and apologists who say that Jehovah will look at hearts at armageddon and save billions, my own mother believes this.
      This is the october 2019 study Watchtower page 11 paragraph 14. As you can see it makes it crystal clear that ONLY baptized witnesses will survive armageddon.
      14 Read Matthew 28:19, 20. As we conduct Bible studies, we have to try our best to “make disciples . . . , teaching them to observe all the things [Jesus has] commanded.” We need to help people understand how important it is for them to take their stand for Jehovah and his Kingdom. This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day.—1 Pet. 3:21.
    • By Witness
      To get to the meaningful core of what Armageddon is about, which is the battle of truth against lies, we look at Israel’s sins of the past.  Today’s spiritual “Israel” comprised of the anointed ones, is also steeped in sin, resulting from a testing delusion put upon them by Satan; a delusion that is passionately called “the truth”.   Luke 22:31; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,2,11 
      God does expect us to seek Truth.  Ps 25:5; Matt 7:7,8; John 4:23,24; 8:31,32; 14:6 
      Yet, today’s “Israel” is feeding on the lies of their leaders/prophets. Matt 7:15; Acts 20:29; Rev 16:13,14  
      When reading Ezekiel chapter 13, notice that the term “whitewash” helps reveal what is behind the organization’s ‘new light’ label.  Many translations use the phrase, “untempered mortar”, a few say “loose mud”, or “chalk”; all are descriptive of the organization’s attempt to cover over unstable teachings that do not last.  John 15:16,5 
      “untempered mortar” is defined as “whitewash" used to patch a wall, creating the facade of beauty.
      As an example:
      Matt 23:37 – “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.”
      Why were these teachers described by Jesus as whitewashed tombs?
      “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”  John 8:44-47
      By choosing to deny Christ’s words of truth which offer eternal life, they remained in spiritual darkness, alienated from God and life.
       “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.”  John 6:63
      “If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.” 1 John 1:6
      The battle of truth against lies was evident then, and is now, as it reaches the end point in these last days.  The “two witnesses” (“two “meaning truth – John 8:17) proclaim the revealing message from Christ, while false prophets battle against it, with their lies. Dan 12:9; Rev 1:11; 11:3; 1 John 4:6 
      Ezekiel chapter 13:
      The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: ‘Hear the word of the Lord!3 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish (“wicked”) prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 
      4 Your prophets, Israel, are like jackals among ruins. (Lam 5:17,18; Ps 44:19)
       5 You have not gone up to the breaches in the wall to repair it for the people of Israel so that it will stand firm in the battle on the day of the Lord. ( Ezek 22:30)
      6 Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. Even though the Lord has not sent them, they say, “The Lord declares,” and expect Him to fulfill their words. (Ps 50:21; Isa 57:11) 
      7 Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The Lord declares,” though I have not spoken? (Ezek 22:28; Rev 16:13,14) 
      8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign Lord.9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord.  (Rev 13:8)   
      10 “‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,  (Jer 23:13,17; 1 Thess 5:3) 
      11 therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 
      12 When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?”
      13 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. (Ps 18:12,13; Isa 30:30 [Heb 12:1] Ps 147:17,18; Matt 24:30; Rev 11:3,5; Rev 8:7; Matt 7:24,25}  
      14 I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. (Matt 7:26,27; 1 Cor 3:10,13)  When it falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord.
      15 So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it,16 those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.”’ 
      Pearl Doxsey:
      I have come to appreciate, that "walls" stand for doctrines/teachings. Just as the city wall protects the city from their enemies, so do doctrines defend against threats to faith, but they also offer boundaries to keep a "flock" in an enclosure. My point, is that Ezekiel "dug" a hole in the wall. (Ezek 12:4-7) We know the meaning of "digging" (Prov 2:2-5; Matt 13:44), and when we combine these symbols (digging, wall) I take it as scrutiny of teachings (1 John 4:1; 1 Thess 5:21) which weakens a wall of false doctrine, just as digging holes in a literal wall would. We are told (according to this symbolism) that the "wall" of apostate Jerusalem will fall (see Ezekiel 13:10,11,12,14,15), no matter how much they "whitewash" their teachings.
      I am certain of this connection and meaning of "wall", because the fall of Jericho’s wall is inextricably linked with the "end", and to Revelation (Heb 11:30; Luke 21:20; Josh 6:15,20,8; Rev 8:2,6).
      The "wall" of false teachings will "fall", leaving all those within that city defenseless and conquered. The wall they trusted in will fail them.
      (From “Wall/Christ’s Side” 4womaninthewilderness)
      As a child, I was occasionally assigned to clean the chalk boards after school, using water and a large cloth.  Most children rode the bus home to the far reaches of the farming community I lived in. I was one of the few who walked home from school, which gave me the opportunity to stay longer.  I remember the satisfaction of washing away the day’s writings to reveal a clean board, ready for the new day’s teachings. 
      JWs, from the outset, the organization has added layers and layers of decaying interpretations to its doctrines, like smudged chalk accumulating on a dirty chalkboard. This is the reality behind the organization’s new light philosophy.  In its history, it has never returned to the clean pure truth of Christ’s Word. 
      To understand why God allows his people to submit to this powerful delusion, please see:
       “Who is to Blame?”
      “Spreading Tribulation – Tainted or Tested?”
      “Satan’s Fall”
      4womaninthewilderness blogspot
       

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
    • By Anna
      Something I thought might be relevant since we are studying the God's Kingdom book. Not long ago, in a WT article, it was mentioned in reference to the "Kingdom being preached in all the inhabited earth" that this will not mean that literally everyone on Earth would have heard about the Kingdom before Armageddon starts.
      When one does a bit of mathematics (not my forte) and calculates the percentage of current Jehovah's Witnesses in comparison to the World's population we arrive at 0.1%. This is a very small percentage indeed. (8 million JW to 8 billion population)
      If we were to assume some averages, and use the United States as a fair example, then we can assume the ratio of 1 publisher to roughly around 400. This seems a fair number since "only a few are the ones finding the road to life". However, as we know, there is practically a non existent ratio when it comes to India and China, two of the world's countries with a population of over 1billion each (the majority of whom have never heard of the Bible, never mind Jehovah's Witnesses).  If we would assume the same ratio of 1:400, then this would immediately create over 3 million Witnesses in each of the two countries, i.e. over 6 million in India and China alone, bringing the total of JWs to over 14 million. If we were to also add 650 thousand in Indonesia, 485 thousand from Pakistan, and 402 thousand from Bangladesh that adds another 1.5 million bringing the total to over 15 million, almost doubling the Witnesses today.
      If we go by the fact that all people are equal in Jehovah's eyes, and that no nation is above another when it comes to salvation, and that all people are basically the same, then we have to assume that there are people in those countries who, if given the chance, would embrace the truth and put themselves on Jehovah's side and create that ratio of 1:400.
      With that in mind, it is evident that either there is going to have to be a lot of preaching done, verging on the miraculous, in order to bring in over 7 million new Witnesses within the allotted time of the "Generation", or, Jehovah will judge their hearts and allow nearly HALF of the people, (agnostics or believers in false Gods) entry into the new world without them even needing to know him.
      Or, is "this Generation" a lot longer than we think.....
      Any scriptural thoughts?
       
    • By Jesus.defender
      1888 "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
       
       
      1889 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
       
    • By Jesus.defender
      In 1889, the WT said " we present PROOFS that the setting up of the kingdom of God has already begun...and that 'the battle of the great day of God almighty' (Revelation16:14),which will end in AD1914 with the complete overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced.".
      The watchtower presented "proofs".
      These "proofs" were wrong, so what credibility do they have to "proclaim" anything?
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      The ‘International Bible Students’ . . . have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914.”
      It is a historical fact worth noting that, on the basis of the points and evidence above presented, the March 1880 edition of the Watch Tower magazine identified the year 1914 as the time for the close of “the appointed times of the nations” (and the end of the lease of power granted the Gentile rulers). 
      This was some 34 years before the arrival of that year and the momentous events it initiated. In the August 30, 1914, edition of The World, a leading New York newspaper at that time, a feature article in the paper’s Sunday magazine section commented on this as follows: “The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. 
      For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the ‘International Bible Students’ . . . have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914.”
      The events that took place from and after the year 1914 C.E. are well-known history to all, beginning with the great war that erupted, the first world war in mankind’s history and the first to be fought over the issue, not of the domination of Europe alone, nor of Africa, nor of Asia, but of the domination of the world.—Lu 21:7-24, 29-33; Re 11:15-18.
      jw.org

      IMG_6281.mov
    • By Brother Rando
      Being a student of Prophecy and intently studying the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1914 is only the beginning of the end. “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. ?All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:7-8)
      In 1914 the world as we know it, has entered into its death throes.  God’s Kingdom would slowly begin crushing all kingdoms of the earth. (Daniel 2:44)  Those inhabiting the earth would enter into an ‘allotted amount of time of distress'. “During that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.” (Daniel 12:1)
      What is causing this ‘time of distress’?  “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled ?but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven.” (Rev 12:7-8)  “Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” (Rev 12:12)  Here’s an important teaching from Jesus Christ, he stated, “For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be.” (Matthew 24:37)  Did you catch that?  So the presence of the Son of man will be.  Jesus Christ has been ruling from Heaven since 1914 and he compared his presence like the days of Noah!  Few people understand this, but the Days of Noah lasted 120 years. (Genesis 6:3)  Jesus continues, “For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, ?and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.” (Matthew 24:38-39)  Folks, the presence of the Son of man is now 103 years from 1914 and counting.  Yet, the World is taking no note.
      The Last Days must reach their full time allotted, which is 120 years.  1914 + 120 = 2034.   Since the Great Tribulation is Spiritual, many will  fall away from the faith. But it’s during this time period that the one’s separated to the right hand of Christ, will come out of the Great Tribulation as Survivors.  In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” (Rev 7:13)
      So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Rev 7:14)  “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.” (Matthew 24:42)
      Armageddon is an act of undeserved kindness of removing the wicked by means of the second death.  Soon, those outside our interior rooms will be dying the second death in the same manner as Adam and Eve. 
       
      For Answers to Your Biblical Questions go to the Jehovah Witness Q & A Forum.  To request a free home Bible Study click here.
    • By Albert Michelson
      What is the good news?
       
      The Bible is clear that even if someone had been clearly selected by god if they deviate from the truth they are to be rejected. 
       
      Galatians 1:8-9 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.  9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.
       
      This holds even more weight for ones like the GB who are not clearly selected and who's claim to authority rests solely on a demonstrably false interpretation of scripture.
      The organization claims that the 1914 teaching is necessary for salvation and even goes as far as to claim that the 1914 teaching is the good news spoken of in the Bible.
      *** w67 12/15 pp. 753-754 pars. 3-4 What Now Distinguishes the Good News to Be Preached ***
      "What a joy-inspiring addition or enlargement to the good news now to be preached! Now has come the victorious kingdom of our God together with the authority of his Christ, his Messiah! As for Satan the Devil and his demons, they have only a short period of time until they are bound and imprisoned in the abyss after the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Armageddon. All this additional wonderful information has been true since the end of the “appointed times of the nations” in 1914, and particularly since World War I closed in the year 1918. Not before the “appointed times of the nations” ended in the fall of 1914 could the good news be preached of the newborn, established heavenly kingdom of God and of his Messiah. This, then, must be the good news that Jesus Christ in his prophecy said had to be preached first in all the nations. (Mark 13:10) This generation of human society that has seen and experienced the world events since the Gentile Times closed in 1914—this is the “generation” that will not pass away until all the things foretold have happened, including the preaching of the good news first in all nations.
      4 Jesus’ prophecy in Mark 13:10, “Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first,” has not been undergoing fulfillment during the past nineteen centuries. It is only since the second decade of our twentieth century that this prophecy has been undergoing fulfillment. This began to be realized by the International Bible Students Association and the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society since the end of the second decade of our century. In the magazine issue of July 1, 1920, of The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence the article was published entitled “Gospel of the Kingdom” and based on the theme text, “‘And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.’—Matthew 24:14.”
       It is for this reason that the organization is chained to the 1914 teaching. As the scripture I quoted above demonstrates the Bible says that one who teaches a good news that is false is cursed. If the organization admits that the 1914 and 1919 teachings are false they will have to admit that not only were they not selected as gods channel but that they have been teaching a false good news for the majority of their existence. It is for that reason that they disfellowship and shun people who cannot conscientiously remain in the faith. It's easier to just eliminate the opposition then to actually address the real issues with your theology. 
      *** w86 4/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
      Why have Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?
       
      "Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?
       
      That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17) That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a “faithful and discreet slave” upon earth today ‘entrusted with all of Jesus’ earthly interests,’ which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15–12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ’s Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present “great crowd” of Jesus’ “other sheep.”—John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4."
       
      This is supposedly a list of the fundamental doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses that all are required to believe. You will in most cases be disfellowshiped for not believing in one or more of them. Unfortunately the truth is most of them are false.
    • By JW Insider
      Even before C.T.Russell was born, commentaries on Bible prophecy included  dozens of potential dates. Nearly 200 years ago, a couple of them even included 1914 as potentially significant time period. The "1914 presence" doctrine, however, is only about 75 years old.
      All the ideas behind the Watch Tower's version of the 1914 doctrine have already been discussed for decades now, and all of them, so far, have been shown to be problematic from a Scriptural point of view. Since the time that the doctrine generally took its current shape in 1943, the meanings and applications of various portions of Matthew 24 and 25 have already been changed, and the timing of various prophesied events and illustrations have changed. Most recently, the meaning and identification of the "faithful and discreet slave" has changed. And the definition of "generation" has changed about half-a-dozen times. This doesn't mean that the current understandings are impossible, of course, only that it has become less likely from the point of view of reason and reasonableness.
      Besides, for most of the years of teaching this doctrine, we have had the flexibility of extending the "1914 generation" from a possible 40 years, up to 70, then 75, then 80 years. And this has been applied to teenagers who saw 1914, 10-year-olds who saw 1914, then even newborns who saw 1914. With every one of these options already tried and stretched to their limits, we finally were forced to convert the meaning of generation from its most common meanings and give it a new "strained" meaning that has no other Biblical parallel. (See Exodus 1:6; Matthew 1:17; 16:4; 23:36; Luke 11:50)
      But that flexibility is still seen as the last reason for hope that the Watch Tower Society might have still been correct in hanging on to 1914. Since the Bible says that a lifespan is 70 or 80 years and 1914 + 80 = 1994, the "generation" doctrine in its original form (1943) could remain stable until about 1994. Of course, a lifespan could technically reach to 120 years or more, and Gen 6:3 even gives vague support to the idea that the "1914 generation" could last 120 years, until 2034.
      The current alternative solution is to make the generation out of the length of two lifespans, which technically could be double 120 years, or nearly 240 years from 1914. That would have had the potential to reach to the year 2154 (1914+240) except for the caveat that it can, by its new definition, only refer to anointed persons who discerned the sign in 1914 and whose lives overlapped (technically, by as little as one second) with the lifespan of another anointed person representing the second group. If persons from each group don't really discern their own "anointing" until age 20, for example, this would effectively remove 40 years from the overall maximum. 1914+120-20+120-20 = 2114. We could also assume a possible lifespan of more than 120 years, but otherwise, the new two-lifespan generation could potentially make the generation last 200 years. This "technical maximum" is not promoted currently, because for now we look at examples like Fred Franz who was part of that original generation already anointed and who saw the sign, and the typical example of an anointed brother who was apparently "anointed" prior to Franz' death in 1992 would be someone like Governing Body member, Brother Sanderson, who was born in 1965, baptized in 1975, and was already a "special pioneer" in 1991. His is currently 52.
      However, the generation problem is just one more problem now which we can add onto the list of all the other points that make up the 1914 doctrine. Here are several points related to 1914 that appear problematic from a Scriptural point of view:
      All evidence shows the 1914 date is wrong when trying to base it on the destruction of Jerusalem. (Daniel 1:1; 2 Chron 36:1-22; Jer 25:8-12; Zech 1:12, 7:4; Ezra 3:10-13) Paul said that Jesus sat at God's right hand in the first century and that he already began ruling as king at that time. (1 Cor 15:25) Jesus said not to be fooled by the idea that wars and rumors of wars would be the start of a "sign" (Matt 24:4,5) Jesus said that the "parousia" would be as visible as lightning (Matt 24:27). He spoke against people who might say he had returned but was currently not visible. (Matt 24:23-26) Jesus said that his "parousia" would come as a surprise to the faithful, not that they would discern the time of the parousia decades in advance. (Matt 24:36-42) Jesus said that the kingdom would not be indicated by "signs" (Luke 17:20, almost any translation except NWT in this case) The "synteleia" (end of all things together) refers to a concluding event, not an extended period of time (Matt 28:20) Jesus was already called ruler, King and even "King of Kings" in the first century. (1 Tim 6:15, Heb 7:2,17; Rev 1:5; 17:14) Wicked, beastly King Nebuchadnezzar's insanity and humiliation does not represent Jesus as the "lowliest one of mankind." (Heb 1:5,6; 2:10,11; Daniel 4:23-25; cf. Heb 2:7; 1 Pet 3:17,18) The demise of a Gentile kingdom cannot rightly represent the time of the rise of the Gentile kingdoms (Daniel 4:26,27) The Gentile kings did not meet their demise in 1914. (Rev 2:25,26) The time assigned to the Gentile Times that Jesus spoke about in Luke 21:24 is already given as 3.5 times, not 7 times (Revelation 11:2,3) The Devil was already brought down from "heaven" in the first century. (1 John 2:14,15; 1 Pet 5:8; Luke 10:18; Heb 2:14) The Bible says that the "last days" began in the first century. (Acts 2:14-20; 2 Tim 3:1-17; 1 Peter 3:3-5; Heb 1:2, almost any translation except NWT in this case.)
    • By Noble Berean
      "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence" (2 Thessalonians 2:8).
      I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus Christ presence began back in 1914. I also understand that JWs believe the clergy of Christendom represent the Man of Lawlessness. However, if that is the case, why have the clergy thrived since 1914? Shouldn't they be brought to "...nothing by the manifestation of his presence"?
    • By JW Insider
      A recent topic about whether the Watchtower view of 607 BCE is SCRIPTURALLY supported is linked below. This new topic should provide a better place to discuss the SECULAR evidence. I also think it would be useful to discuss the methodology that the Watch Tower Society has historically used to treat this evidence.
      I would hope that we can do this without so much side discussions of unrelated topics. To avoid another topic that goes on for 30+ pages where only half of them were on-topic, I would suggest that if we get enough off-topic posts, we merely move them to another more appropriate topic.
      The link to the most recent topic on a similar subject is here:


       
    • By JW Insider
      Why another topic about 1914 and 607?
      Because we could use a topic where we can all agree a little more easily. Seriously. In this topic, we don't need to worry about whether 607 is correct, or 1914 is correct. No one needs to say why it does or doesn't make sense to them. Let's just see if we can review the possible and probable sources that were influential, and ultimately resulted in 607 and 1914 being accepted as a Bible-based fulfillment of prophecy.
      No one needs to jump from another thread about 607 and Biblical evidence over to this one. In fact, I just read a couple of books last night for the first time, and I had some questions that I couldn't find an answer to, and hoped that someone from that other thread, or anyone really, might have run across the resources that might have answered the questions. I'm reading one more book first, and don't think I'll finish it tonight, so consider this topic to be kind of a placeholder for a couple days.
      So this is the purpose of the three current threads:
      https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/5510-607-bce-is-it-biblically-supported/ a place to discuss mostly the Scriptural evidence for or against the 607 portion of the 1914 doctrine. https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/51655-607-bce-is-there-any-secular-support-for-the-watch-towers-view/ a place to discuss mostly the Secular evidence for or against the 607 portion of the 1914 doctrine. And this current one: a place to discuss the sources that were influential in the WTS accepting the 607 date as part of the 1914 doctrine. One place to start is with a couple sentences in the "Proclaimers" book (next post). I personally intend to avoid a certain book by COJ for this topic, to avoid unnecessary controversy, although anyone should feel free to use any resources from anywhere they wish, as long as it appears to be a statement of fact. Again, this is not about questioning the correctness of the doctrine.
    • By The Librarian
      Master Chronological List > 1914
      Pastor Charles Taze Russell pointed to 1914 as the end of the "Gentile Times" or "The Appointed Times of the Nations."

      Subsequent President of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society Judge Joseph F. Rutherford established 1914 as the date of "Christ's Invisible Return" and crowning as King of God's Kingdom in 1920 which had been previously believed to be 1878. Hence, Jehovah's heavenly Kingdom is established.

      Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Satan and his demons were cast down to earth from heaven after October 1, 1914 at which point the end times began.

      From 1914 C.E. to the early part of 1918 C.E. or 1,260 days Jehovah's people preached a "sackcloth" message concerning Christendom and the world, in fulfillment of Revelation 11:3, 4. See re pgs. 164-7 pars. 10-18, also see yw pgs. 264-307, also bf pg. 592.

      [KING OF THE NORTH is now Germany, the KING OF THE SOUTH is the alliance between Great Britian and the United States of America, see Daniel 11:27-29], Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife, Countess Sophie Chotek, duchess of Hohenberg were assassinated on June 28th in Sarajevo, Bosnia, (now in Bosnia and Herzegovina), by a Serb nationalist. This action precipitated World War I. 
       
      On October 2, 1914, Jesus took the throne. Shortly thereafter, a war in heaven broke out wherein Satan and his demons were cast from the heavens. Satan then became so enraged that he began to wreak havoc upon the earth. One of the first things he did was to start the Great War (WWI). So WWI must have started a few days after October 2, 1914.
       
      “World War I set the violent twentieth century in motion. It was the first use of chemical weapons; the first mass bombardment of civilians from the sky; the century’s first genocide.” So begins the 1996 PBS series The Great War and the Shaping of the Twentieth Century.


      The war’s horrendous prosecution and unsatisfactory end were made even worse by the Versailles Peace Conference, a conclave which created the false peace that only allowed the combatants to rearm and proceed to a second conflict which was even more destructive than the first one. World War II merely took up the Great War’s unfinished business. Indeed many historians call both conflicts Europe’s “Second Thirty Years’ War.”

      The First World War led to the birth of the first communist dictatorship. The world flirted with nuclear destruction as that dictatorship engaged in a murderous rivalry with its erstwhile allies. When the USSR finally imploded, some of the splinter states which emerged from its ruins fell to either fighting among themselves or suffering internecine bloodletting. And the problems elsewhere in southwest Asia as well as the Middle East can be traced to hatreds fostered by European colonialism which the Great War only intensified.

      The world we have today had its birth pangs in World War I. It was Austria-Hungary’s invasion of Serbia on 28 July 1914 that caused a myriad of dominoes to fall—and they are continuing to tumble even now.


      The war shattered an entire world order. In 1914, sixty percent of the world's population lived under the rule of kingdoms or empires. Today less than ten percent do so. The only important royal dynasty to survive the war was the House of Windsor and that was not without challenge. The fragmentation of these empires led to the rise of independent states which continues down to this day as the doctrine of "self-determination", promulgated by Wilson at Versailles, continues to govern many movements in our time.

      But what makes the Great War different from its predecessors is that it was the first fought in all four quarters of the globe and by blocs of nations as opposed to just a few. Its carnage also was unmatched in previous world history. Nobody knows how many actually died although estamates range from fourteen to twenty million. Among its aftershocks were the Spanish Flu, the pandemic that killed more people than the war itself, and widespread famine. So to say that the Great War was not much different from earlier ones entirely misses the point,
       
        Post by Jehovah's Witnesses News, Library, History, Videos, Talks, Illustrations.  
       
      July 28, 1914. Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia. August 1, 1914. Germany Declares War on Russia. August 3, 1914. Germany declares war on France. August 4, 1914. Britain declares war on Germany. August 6, 1914. Austria declares war on Russia. April 6, 1917 - The United States declares war on Germany.
      Depiction from the Nov 1, 2014 Watchtower:

      Older depiction from the 1982 book "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth":

      Related Links and Questions
      Jehovah’s Witnesses gather for convention - 1914 and 2014 - USA-Texas-Arlington - USA-Texas Fort Worth

      1914-2014 - One Hundred Years of Kingdom Rule!

      Where did you find the theme text for 1914?

      Jesus said that "This generation will not pass away until all these things occur." Did he mean the generation that saw saw World War 1 in 1914?

      What shows that Christ became King in 1914?

      When Jesus began ruling as King in 1914, was that the start of the Millennial reign of the Messianic Kingdom?

      IBSA Historical Video from that year 

       
      Watchtower Publications from 1914
      YearText: “Be strong and courageous.” Joshua 1:9
      w-E * The Watch Tower 
      Countdown Card 
      Berean Studies on The New Creation - C.T. Russell 
      The Photo-Drama of Creation 
      What Say the Scriptures About Our Lord's Return (his Parousia, Apokalupsis and Epiphania)


      Return to the Master List of Watchtower Publications listed by Year

      Watchtower_May_15_1984_pages_1_to_7.pdf
      Previous Watchtower Publications quotations concerning 1914
      “Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon.” - The Watchtower, September 1, 1952, p. 543

      THE TRAIN ILLUSTRATION - Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 5

      “The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the ‘last days’ have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God...Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the ‘last days’ began. Jesus was saying that some of those persons who were alive at the appearance of the ‘sign of the last days’ would still be alive when God brought this system to its end.” - Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 13


      “But there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happening then and who were old enough that they still remember those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes!” - The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, 1968 ed., p. 95

      “However, there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happening then and who were old enough that they still remember those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes!” - The Watchtower, February 15, 1969, p. 101

      “Men of this world offer you nothing stable, nothing sure. Their promises and predictions of better things have failed time and again. Why let yourself be carried along with them in a steadily downward course to ultimate disaster due to rejecting God’s will? God’s prophetic Word has not failed. Time has confirmed its truthfulness, its unerring accuracy. The generation that saw the start of the time of distress that began in 1914 is now dwindling in numbers. Before it passes off the scene the prophesied ‘great tribulation’ will come. You can be among the joyful survivors, experience deliverance from a world system that has proved oppressive, unworkable and death dealing.” - The Watchtower, February 1, 1971, p. 69

      “And the remaining ones of that generation of 1914 are still talking about it. Some of them will be talking about it right down to the time when the ‘great tribulation’ wipes Satan’s wicked system of things off the face of our globe. For Jesus Christ himself assures us: ‘Truly I say to you that this generation [the generation that saw the ‘beginning of pangs of distress’ in 1914] will by no means pass away [completely] until all these things occur. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.’--Matthew 24:3,8,34,35.” - The Watchtower, May 1, 1982, p. 15

      “After drawing attention to the many things that have marked the period from 1914 onward, Jesus said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things [including the end of this system] occur.’ (Matthew 24:34,14) Which generation did Jesus mean? He meant the generation of people who were living in 1914. Those persons yet remaining of that generation are now very old. However, some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon. Some of the generation living in 1914 will see the end of the system of things and survive it.” - You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth, 1982 ed. p. 154

      ILLUSTRATION: “1914 The Generation That Will Not Pass Away” - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, title page

      “If Jesus used ‘generation’ in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80’s or 90’s, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive. Some of them ‘will by no means pass away until all things occur.’ --Luke 21:32” - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, p. 5

      “From a purely human viewpoint, it could appear that these developments could hardly take place before the generation of 1914 disappears from the scene. But fulfillment of all the foretold events affecting the generation of 1914 does not depend on comparatively slow human action. Jehovah’s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: ‘This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.’ (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son’s words in a relatively short time.--Isaiah 46:9,10; 55:10,11.”
      - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, pp. 6-7

      “Today, a small percentage of mankind can still recall the dramatic events of 1914. Will that elderly generation pass away before God saves the earth from ruin? Not according to Bible prophecy. ‘When you see all these things,’ Jesus promised, ‘know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’--Matthew 24:33,34” - The Watchtower, May 1, 1992, p. 3

      “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.” - Awake!, October 22, 1995, p. 4


      “Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the ‘great tribulation’ would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However, we ‘bring a heart of wisdom in,’ not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we ‘count our days’ in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah. (Psalm 90:12) Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term ‘generation’ as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” - The Watchtower, November 1, 1995, p. 17


      “Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy today, ‘this generation’ apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ’s presence but fail to mend their ways...Does our more precise viewpoint on ‘this generation’ mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! Though we at no time have known the ‘day and hour,’ Jehovah God has always known it, and he does not change.” - The Watchtower, November 1, 1995, pp. 19-20

      “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.” - Awake!, November 8, 1995, p. 4
       
      One hundred years on from the Great War

       
    • By Israeli Bar Avaddhon
      We are now very close to the great tribulation!
      A brother of the betel was concluding his speech when he made the following comment: " Be intensely busy with the word of God," I would like listening very carefully. We who are in Betel we are privileged to work with the faithful and discreet slave and with the body of directors and I wish know you how he feels the body of directors about the time we live now in this system of things.
      The faithful slave feels that it is already happened to the Matthew 24:14 prophecy: "quest for good news the kingdom's be preached in all the inhabited earth."
      What does the party later this word? He says that ... then the end will come.
      He knew you that there are only three countries in the world where there are no Jehovah's Witnesses?
      ONLY 3 countries!
      Somalia, North Korea and Afghanistan ...
      This does not mean that there does not reach the in our literature to but just that there are not Jehovah's Witnesses. I had mentioned earlier to some friends and they wanted to know why there are no Jehovah's Witnesses in these countries. I 'll tell you the reason.
      Jehovah does not send his people to any place where he knows that van there! * (See footnote)
      But in these three countries the good news have already been published (I guess it refers to the fact that literature is still available).
      Matthew 14, Luke 21, Mark 13, as well as Revelation 6: these words are ending (?)
      So what is the biblical prophecy that still has to fulfill?
      You know what?
      The read for you.
      See Revelation 17: 15-17 - (read the prophecy)
      The faithful slave is waiting for the day Jehovah will put this thought into their hearts.
      This is the next prophecy that must be fulfilled. For those who know what it means, this will cause the great tribulation.
      Once this is fulfilled , the door will be closed (in a spiritual sense).
      Whatever thing you did, you can not go back.
      "I could have done this or that if I had more time."
      Now is the time!
      How will you spend the time you stay?
      For what are you working or are you committed ?
      - in higher education?
      - you are struggling to get more money and material goods?
      - you are engaged in the distractions of the world?
      Or are you undertake to favor the kingdom.?
      We do things urgently, we try to be quick! (Story running on facebook between of various witnesses of Jehovah accounts)
        I want to point out that the aforementioned text is the translation of the translation of a translation and then of specific phrases may have been distorted sense. Apart from that, however, the general sense of the discourse is clear. Assuming that they are not the ravings of some overzealous brother (which still brings out what they believe, more or less openly, many Jehovah's Witnesses), the meaning is as follows. The prophecies have almost all been fulfilled.  
      The preaching was completed.  
      We are just waiting for the fall of Babylon the Great.  
        Our expectations are really in harmony with God's Word?   That's it? Some brother more in later years and with a good memory will recall that statements like these (views from different angles) have already been made in the past. Without wishing to be too argumentative, beyond the past mistakes, it is clear that sooner or later you have to get to the point where it will begin the great tribulation, will fall Babylon the Great, and you will enter the Millennial Kingdom. The fact we were wrong in the past, more than once, this in itself does not prove that you're wrong again. Could it really be so and definitely not wrong to keep alive the sense of urgency - compare Matthew 24:42; Revelation 16:15 Beyond, however, the "hint" that each of us can have, the only thing we should do is search the scriptures to try to understand "what extent we are old" in reference to biblical prophecy. It is true: if we take the writing of Matthew 24:14 and we make an analysis of the presence of our brothers in the world, probably we would come to the same conclusion of the aforesaid brother in the introduction of this article (always assuming that the report is credible). The question, however, end here? Being such an important subject, it would be no need to also examine other scriptures to see if you dial a credible framework or if "something is not right"? Moreover, as the same "slave" has admitted, they are not inspired and therefore we would like to build on something more than a simple "I want you to know how you feel the governing body about the time we live in." The Bible is not "imperfect spiritual food", does not lend itself to corrections or rewards, does not change with time and definitely do not mind - John 17:17; Romans 3: 4; James 1:17; Titus 1: 2 Obviously you are not suggesting that the interpretations of this blog are infallible; far from it. You simply want to emphasize that the Bible is always to have the last word and so we must look for answers there, not in our desires or people that we value - Matthew 4: 4 Some do not even accept the possibility that even those who are taking the lead can go wrong (as if they were human beings). For some to question the statement "slave" is an indication of lack of respect and submission but this is a myopic view of the situation. We know that many times the people of God fed wrong expectations about the future and about the will of God - compares Isaiah 28: 14-19 They were the people of God but this, in itself, did not guarantee the protection and the priests themselves, more often, showed a complete ignorance of the Scriptures - John 3:10 This also happened with good intentions and the best people - compares 1 Samuel 16: 7 Considering the biblical past, trying to see what the Bible says to beyond the proclamation and to everyone who comes , is not it the best? - 1 Thessalonians 5:21; Romans 15: 4; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 The Lord Jesus Christ himself, the one who was the wisest of all men , and that he could speak of his own initiative, not perhaps did the same? - Matthew 4: 4-10 Questioning certain statements (not for bias, of course) is not a lack of respect towards the index "slave"; on the contrary, it shows profound respect for the one true authority of God's Word - Psalm 31: 5; Acts 17:11 Let us examine the claim that the prophecies would almost all be fulfilled, and we just have to wait the fall of Babylon the Great. The officer says that understanding God's Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914, by 1918 the heavens were purified, in 1919 the heavenly resurrection began (as well as the purification of the people of God) and so on. Perhaps there is some error in this generalization also because of the constant "adjustments" (adjustments that change the periods of a few months, ever the concepts) but roughly this is what you believe.

      In this article you will see just how the logic and writing can corroborate or invalidate these ideas. The official explanation identifies the slaughtered head of death Revelation 13: 3 as the Anglo-American empire. It is true that the book that lists this explanation (the Revelation Its Grand Climax) has now been withdrawn but there is nothing new on the horizon that, until there is a different explanation, this is the ultimate understanding accepted. As we saw this explanation is problematic because the Anglo-American empire, according to official explanations, is the "king of the South" described in the Bible book of Daniel. However in Daniel is the king of the north to win the last war, and so it is obvious that something is not right - Daniel 11: 40-45 Of course we can not say that Daniel and Revelation contradict, does not it? To focus with Daniel Revelation there are only two possibilities. Or the Anglo-American empire is actually the king of the north ** (see note below) or head slaughtered to death that you see in Revelation can not be the Anglo-American empire. Does not it seem logical reasoning? How can the Anglo-American empire (and be the king of the south) if Daniele does understand that the last ruling king, or what will be defeated by Michele, is the king of the north? In Revelation we do not see another political power that defeats the beast that ascends from the sea. After the Great War (which can also have multiple stages), do not talk about other human wars in Revelation, right? - 1 Thessalonians 5: 3 The last war we are talking about and who participates in this beast is against the God Almighty - Revelation 16: 10-14, 16 The conclusion is logical. Apart from the fact that the end will come when the preaching has reached "all the inhabited earth" before this you will see the clash between the king of the north and the king of the south. And must win the king of the north, of course. In the last World War he has probably won the king of the north as well as to assert that "we just have to wait over the fall of Babylon the Great"? Absolutely no. The last king of the north was the Third Reich and, during the battle against the king of the south (the Anglo-American empire, in fact) it came out defeated. This is a prophecy that still has not been fulfilled and it is more than enough to establish that it is not enough that the preaching arrivals in these last three remaining countries. Among other things, the writing of Matthew 24:14 does not give any basis for determining how long the good news has to take place in a given country in order to receive adequate testimony. If tomorrow our brothers  they come in those nations and begin to preach ... how much time would pass until God considered adequate and sufficiently complete that testimony? The answer is simple: we do not know . However, although that has yet to burst the war between the king of the north and king of the south, it is conceivable that in the meantime there are other prophecies that have to be fulfilled or are being fulfilled, is not it? As we have seen in several previous articles before the war should emerge a certain persecution of brothers (you have tribulation, but is not yet the great tribulation ) because the king of the north must start to suppress the daily sacrifice (the preaching work ) until you get to completely suppress it - see Daniel 8: 10-12, 24, 25 In our recent past, the preaching work was perhaps suppressed completely, which it did by means of the king of the north? According to the prophecy, and this must be done only during the last years of the scheme of things it must have a last impulse - compares Revelation 10:11; 14: 6, 7 E 'at this point that the preaching work will reach the ends of the earth, and this will happen very quickly - Zechariah 4: 6 The total suppression of preaching did not happen even during the Second World War and certainly did not happen in all countries; Also this leaves well understand that it is a prophecy to come. There is much more to say but the above should be sufficient, even for those who disagree with the explanations of this blog, to reflect that the Great, "you can not expect only the fall of" Babylon. Who has respect for the Bible itself to be shaped by it. Of course what has been said does not want to show that the end will come "who knows when." In contrast, recent international events suggest that we are far ahead in the end time  All the events described above will occur in a very short time so when we can really begin to come to "raise high head" - Luke 21:28 Those who have lifted up their heads in 1914 all died with a stiff neck but when these things begin to take place (such as the war between the king of the north and king of the south) we can do it peacefully because of this incident until the actual fall of Babylon the Great (which will not be the world empire of false religion ) will spend a maximum of ten years. So us ensure that our expectations are in harmony with the Word of God not to be disappointed - Isaiah 28:16 Us ensure that our expectations are in harmony with the Word of God to be prepared for what's to come and not discouraged - 2 Peter 1:19; Proverbs 24:10 Us ensure that our expectations are in harmony with the Word of God, ultimately, for our lives - Matthew 7:24, 25     The Bible traces the path. It will not lead to disappointment.   Footnote. * The translation was not very clear. ** From previous articles we saw that the Anglo-American empire is indeed the king of the south.
    • By Jack Ryan
      referring to CHAPTER 18 “My Great Rage Will Flare Up” in the new book:
      and in the first picture? at top of study. Mom, Dad and daughter are at the table reading - praying while Gramps is keeping a watchful eye on the streets for recon angel forces ? Perhaps a few cherub paratroopers dropping behind the lines?
    • By Jack Ryan
      Would we just drop dead? Would it be painful? Would we suffer? Would we know? If we die wouldn’t our sins be forgiven anyways cause if not that makes god a liar. No one ever talked About how we would all die
      Arrow to the chest by Jesus on a mighty steed?
    • By Jack Ryan
      Will God kill billions of children?
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