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Ignorance of Child Abuse within JW community


Anna

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http://www.nccpr.org/reports/mandatoryreporting.pdf (from Anna's post)

Wow. It was actually considered to make every American a mandated reporter? If there was suspected child sexual abuse anywhere, everyone would legally bound to report it with legal consequences if they did not?

It is the ultimate Hail Mary proposal from persons besides themselves that they cannot make a dent in child sexual abuse.

And to think there are some in this forum who would have us believe that the JW organization is the lynchpin holding child abuse together. They ought to preface their every comment with their mission statement: eliminate Jehovah's Witnesses - and then go on to make their point.

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@TrueTom   You make some very valid points in your post. I wouldn't argue against any of it. There is also considerable overlap between bullying and sexual abuse. Sexual abuse often becomes jus

I don't mean to be negative, although it is a good video, in my opinion though I've always thought that depicting the "bad guy" as a monster type looking thing is a little misleading (for the children

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8 minutes ago, TrueTom said:

It was actually considered to make every American a mandated reporter? If there was suspected child sexual abuse anywhere, everyone would legally bound to report it with legal consequences if they did not?

There is a ridiculous way to implement this and the report pointed that out. But there should be a minimum level of evidence that every person should be able to look for which makes child abuse suspected. For example:

  • The child or young adult complains to ANYONE that someone touched them inappropriately and points out the places where he or she was touched.
  • The child or young adult complains to ANYONE that they were forced to touch an adult inappropriately.
  • There are signs of abuse or trauma actually seen by a parent or medical professional even when the child or young adult will not explain or cannot explain where these signs came from (blood, bruises, etc.)

Believe it or not, even though those three points might seem obvious to you or me, legally they still only point to a "suspicion" of child abuse. And worse, every one of these OBVIOUS signs and complaints has been seen and heard by parents, guardians, school nurses, police, teachers, coaches, EMS, college presidents, etc., and yet persons in all these categories did not always report the suspected abuse. So the specter of unnecessary trauma should not cloud the reasonable implementation of mandated reporting. An inspection by a medical or trained professional need not be any more invasive in these situations than any other type of examination by a doctor. (And for that matter, parents should also be present even for doctors' examinations. The recent report on 60 Minutes of a famous gymnastics injury therapist should be kept in mind. He evidently got away with hundreds or even more than a thousand cases of child abuse, before enough children complained.)

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JW insider: Child sexual abuse is bad stuff - nobody argues it is not. We're agreed.

But one can't help but shake his head at how fragmented this system is. The same society that puts the physical welfare of children on a razor's edge of alertness sells them down the river in so many other ways - by sticking them with poor education, by fleecing them for $$$$$$ and lifelong debt when they go for higher education, by spying on them with AI toys so as to sell them more stuff, by promoting policies destructive to families, thus depriving children of an emotional foundation, by embracing every new sexual model of living, by saturating them with violence on TV and internet, by not effectively punishing bullies. 

Somewhere i read that a child can more readily survive sexual abuse than they can persistent bullying, yet that goes on all the time. The outside world is very selective in its zeal to protect children. Would that even a fraction of the wrath of those who would defend children in one arena be applied to the others. Suicide of youngsters is endemic today. Please don't tell me that even eliminating child sexual abuse would solve the problem. This world collectively couldn't care less about children - if it did, it would remedy the above concerns.

Ironically, the JW organization that some would love to take down does much to promote the interests of children in most of these other areas. Even on sexual abuse, they have produced one of the best videos out there: Protect Your Children. I mean, C'mon! - an organization that does that is going to wink at child sexual abuse? 

 

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@TrueTom   You make some very valid points in your post. I wouldn't argue against any of it.

2 hours ago, TrueTom said:

Somewhere i read that a child can more readily survive sexual abuse than they can persistent bullying, yet that goes on all the time.

There is also considerable overlap between bullying and sexual abuse. Sexual abuse often becomes just another type of bullying, and those in the "herd" who have been weakened emotionally by either/or will often find themselves targeted (picked off) by abusers (predators) for the rest of their lives. After looking at 4,500 cases of reported sexual abuse in the Catholic Church between 1950 and 2015, (and looking at more statistically significant reporting especially since 1985) The Australian Royal Commission (ARC) reported that about 7% of Catholic priests have been accused. But it was lower in the Catholic schools run by nuns dealing with children, and much higher in the places where males in authority dealt with children (average age was 10 and 11). 30% of the crimes were committed by Catholic "brothers," (those usually assigned to various "orders") another 30% of the crimes were by priests themselves, and 5% by Catholic "sisters" (generally, nuns). It was highest in the "Order of St. John of God" where a full 40% of those in authority there were accused of child abuse. The reason, it shouldn't surprise us, is that these men worked specifically with emotionally disturbed children. Easy picking! One person I listened to on the BBC made it clear that any organization anywhere in the world that had such a high rate of accused and convicted child abusers would be considered a "criminal organization."

2 hours ago, TrueTom said:

Ironically, the JW organization that some would love to take down does much to promote the interests of children in most of these other areas. Even on sexual abuse, they have produced one of the best videos out there: Protect Your Children. I mean, C'mon! - an organization that does that is going to wink at child sexual abuse? 

I agree that all of us want to do all we can. But our own track record was awful, especially in those early years when expensive lawsuits were being covered up long before the very first article about protecting children came out. And members of our own Governing Body fought against printing articles and information on the subject. Just as in other organizations, we didn't want to admit that it was even possible in our own organization, because this would bring such reproach on Jehovah's name and organization. It would give opposers something to point to. My own father in his capacity as a congregation elder, counseled my sister to avoid going to the hospital after abuse by her husband to avoid bringing reproach on the congregation. "What if they asked you what happened, what are you going to tell them?" "What kind of witness would it give to the community if it got out that a minister in the congregation had to go to jail?" "Don't you think it would be more appropriate to try again, but be more humble and conforming and win him with a mild manner?" "Spending more time in prayer and study and service is surely the best counsel." 

My sister came back to the congregation, but she was disfellowshipped for defying this counsel. (She said she would separate and NOT try to get back in her husband's good graces.) I agree that we can always say that it was her unrepentant attitude and anger at the counsel that got her disfellowshipped. I also agree that she was never told NOT to go to the authorities or to specifically LIE to the authorities who might ask her questions at the hospital. But she was definitely pressured for years not to go to authorities and professionals, and even to "lie" through omission of facts if she did go. And she was definitely punished for reacting negatively to the counsel and authority of the elders.

I know about similar cases, and even of a case of child abuse that was covered up in the same way through not-so-subtle pressures to "do the right thing" when it comes to the issue of reproach and even "mandatory reporting." But the case of my sister, I know first-hand. I even offered to give my brother-in-law a taste of his own medicine, which was not the Christian thing to do, but I thought it was a pretty fair interpretation of Matthew 18:15 at the time.

Another point to remember before we start putting our own organization on too high a pedestal here is that if you count the Catholic population and the reported cases in those districts in Australia and compare them to the population of Jehovah's Witnesses and the reported cases in the same districts, then you see that our problem might even be many times worse than the Catholics. I can't say that it really is worse, because this is also a factor of how accurately such accusations are reported. 

Also, if you watched the videos from the previous ARC hearings, you might also be surprised to learn who the abusers were in several of the 1,000+ cases reported among Witnesses. I had heard that at least one of these abusers would be revealed in a separate case by November 2016, but that case is evidently under some kind of gag order, or otherwise delayed under some slow-moving wheels. So please strike what I said and forget I said anything about it. But I am almost certain that the plan is to engage some of these cases in public courts. (Partly because some lawyers involuntarily salivate when money is involved.) I don't think too many Australian Witnesses are holding their heads very high when the topic is brought up during witnessing activities.

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4 hours ago, TrueTom said:

Even on sexual abuse, they have produced one of the best videos out there: Protect Your Children.

I don't mean to be negative, although it is a good video, in my opinion though I've always thought that depicting the "bad guy" as a monster type looking thing is a little misleading (for the children at least) because it makes it look like the "bad guy" is going to be easily identifiable, because.....well he LOOKS bad, and acts CREEPY, whereas in reality a sexual predator grooms his victims and appears very nice to the children, and others. Many times the child molester is a member of the family. The children might be looking for someone sleazy, and might be thrown off guard if the person is a "nice" brother in the congregation, a friend of the family, or even sadly a parent. I might be wrong, just my thought...

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't think too many Australian Witnesses are holding their heads very high when the topic is brought up during witnessing activities.

I have a friend in Australia, a very spiritual, zealous, sweet and humble sister, her husband is an elder and coordinator, and when I asked her about the general consensus of the friends there, she quoted a scripture "But there is nothing carefully concealed that will not be revealed, and nothing secret that will not become known" Luke 12:2 .

 

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By the way I never started this topic!

I wish admin. wouldn't keep doing this.......taking the liberty to move threads from topics started by a specific person and then claim it was a topic started by someone else without asking and/or clarifying. 

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

By the way I never started this topic!

I wish admin. wouldn't keep doing this.......taking the liberty to move threads from topics started by a specific person and then claim it was a topic started by someone else without asking and/or clarifying. 

@Anna The first post will show you were responding to JTR on a different thread with a completely different topic.

 

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6 hours ago, Anna said:

I don't mean to be negative, although it is a good video, in my opinion though I've always thought that depicting the "bad guy" as a monster type looking thing is a little misleading (for the children at least) because it makes it look like the "bad guy" is going to be easily identifiable, because.....well he LOOKS bad, and acts CREEPY, whereas in reality a sexual predator grooms his victims and appears very nice to the children, and others. Many times the child molester is a member of the family. The children might be looking for someone sleazy, and might be thrown off guard if the person is a "nice" brother in the congregation, a friend of the family, or even sadly a parent. I might be wrong, just my thought...

The children's mother specifically tells the children "even if it is someone you know or trust."

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On 2/27/2017 at 2:09 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

You are tying the words of 2 Thess 2:8-12 to the Watchtowers language translation accomplishments and implying that this work has been empowered by Satan?????!!!!

Lawlessness - anomía, an-om-ee'-ah; from G459; illegality, i.e. violation of law or (genitive case) wickedness:—iniquity, × transgress(-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

I.Bible usage - the condition of without law

A.                  because ignorant of it

B.                  because of violating it

II.contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

"The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin (lawlessness) and all who do evil. Matt 13:41

“In the same way, on the outside you look righteous to people, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness”  Matt 23:28

Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.” Matt 24:11,12

What “law” is Jesus referencing that is absent?  Love.  Justice.  Victims of child abuse do not receive either. Disfellowshiped victims also do not receive love or justice. 

“Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”   James 1:27

No one here can truthfully say that the Watchtower is not polluted, or unstained by the world.  In every way, it is tarnished through lawsuits, investments, physical attention to earthly endeavors, and even politics. 

The “man of lawlessness”, the Body of Elders, stands in the Temple of God, his anointed ones, where it does not belong because they are not God’s chosen priests.  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2Chron23:6Eze.44:7,9

So yes, no matter what the Watchtower accomplishes according to worldly standards, (Matt 4:8,9) lawlessness thrives in the organization because God’s own requirements for justice, love and pure teachings from Christ are not followed.  The organization has discarded God’s ways, including Christ’s anointed spiritual priesthood -  the Body of Christ; all, to follow men’s doctrines and rules. 

The sad thing is, although JWs speak of God and Christ, do they realize both the Father and Jesus see all, and he hear all, of the transgressions that lay before them?  Jer 5:12,13; 30,31

Without going off topic much further, you can read my comment made to JW Insider here, which explains more about the priesthood; found under “Why such blatant hypocrisy?"

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/7351-why-such-blatant-hypocrisy/?_fromLogout=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The contest that presents itself here is not that of two organizations that have obeyed Jesus and built a massive infrastructure to enable, encourage and coordinate humble persons in fulfilling the Christian instruction to preach and teach, the leaders of one organization which farts and the leaders of the other that never does. If that were the case, I would choose the second organization, for who in their right mind will countenance farting? It certainly disgusts me.

Instead, the contest that presents itself here is that of an organization that has obeyed Jesus and built a massive infrastructure to enable, encourage, and coordinate lowly persons in fulfilling the Christian instruction to preach and teach - an organization whose leaders fart, and another group that doesn't want to build anything at all but wants to roll in the farts, closely scrutinize and advertise them. One must never lose sight of the big picture.

Without godly organized direction, God's people quickly become like the greater religious world. They quickly come to resemble this forum, where participants bicker about topics anyone raises without ever reaching agreement on anything, or they choose other, lighter threads. There will be no spiritual food in such an arrangement, for whoever offers some will be instantly confronted with those who disagree. Jesus' will will not get done, but participants will have a fine time. The ones who don't will disappear. Witness and Ann would seemingly love it that way.

Look, even Trump does not say he is going to repeal Obamacare alone, for he does not want a country full of dead bodies. He says he is going to repeal and replace it. So you who would take down coordinated Christian activity, get busy and replace it. Move! for it will take a while. Get the job done and I will instantly side with you, since I am sure there will be no farts in whatever you create. 

 

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28 minutes ago, TrueTom said:

The children's mother specifically tells the children "even if it is someone you know or trust."

I know, but that's my point, will someone you know and trust look and act like a sleazy monster..

47 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

@Anna The first post will show you were responding to JTR on a different thread with a completely different topic.

 

I know, but no one will notice that really, because the first thing they will see is the topic title followed by "started by Anna"...

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