Jehovah's Witnesses to face abuse inquiry

[Anna]

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I know this might sound cynical because it echoes the 'follow the money' line of thinking.

Well, not really. In this system there is very little you can do without money. Even God's word recognizes that money is for a protection. I can see why such actions you describe would be prudent. If we take it to its grass roots, and remember Satan is the ruler of this system, then he could very well be using the world's systems (legal or otherwise) to incapacitate or halt the work of the Witnesses. To survive in this system, in the sense that the Witnessing work can carry on, you have to beat the system at its own game. So what you have said about the reasons the GB perhaps not wanting to participate makes complete sense, and I never thought about it that way. The problem some have with that is that they immediately assume "following the money" means someone is lining their pockets, sipping Sangria on a private island, while others are suffering.

 

P.S. Although brother Rook swears all the money is being pooled into HQ so that Br. Morris can buy a Rolex and Br. Herd his blingy cuff links......

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I know this might sound cynical because it echoes the 'follow the money' line of thinking.

 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

The Vatican is able to do this, too, which is why you hear of local diocese having to sell buildings to pay redress for victims, rather than money coming from central Vatican coffers.

So they have adopted the practice of the Catholics in this area? (as well as other things)

 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

If we take it to it's grass roots, and remember Satan is the ruler of this system, then he could very well be using the world's systems (legal or otherwise) to incapacitate or halt the work of the Witnesses.

Or could it be the other way around? Think about this for just a moment, I'll explain the other side of the coin I am referring to in a moment. 

 

 

So you both can see the manipulation, whether for good intentions or bad, and acknowledge that the move of money/assets to NY USA as well as detaching the "head" from the "tail" so to speak  to protect those in NY from the government(s) who may strike out against the wt directly. Ok, I'm in agreement as to this happening, but I am not going to swallow it so blindly as to accept it as for the greater good. I do not want to derail this thread, so feel free to not reply, I just want to bring up some things.

Ok, so we have all these cong's all over the world flowing money into NY for "the work of the wt", not to mention those older folks who have left their estate to the WT. What about the millions in real estate already sold within the last 5 to 10 years? Just in Brooklyn alone its astounding the amount of money that was able to be liquefied. now I'm sure that some of those buildings could have sold for much more, or less, but the point remains the same......tons of money on top of operating costs which were somewhat being sustained by monthly contributions world wide. Now to the point I am trying to make, what has happened within the past 15 years to denote furthering of the "work of the wt"? What expansion has been done? Warwick? ok, but that was planned ahead of time as guided by the Bible (Luke 14:28)? If so, then that cost had already been accounted for. What has happened to the length and structure of the wt and awake magazines? They have shrunk in half, using less paper, less shipping costs, lower printing costs, etc. You get the point. Take a look around and how many kingdom halls have been sold and cong's consolidated? Is this expansion? Is this the money being used to further the "work" ? Where is the evidence that anything has expanded? Is it the reduction of sound equipment in kh's in place of prerecorded talks? The only thing I can see new is the jw broadcasting (much like tv evangelicalism) and a countryside palace or sorts.  Outside of that, there isn't much in the expansion pile but significant reduction in most everything else. 

 

All of this is only my opinion from my perspective, take it with a grain of salt. 

[Anna]

2 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

 All of this is only my opinion from my perspective

So in your opinion, what do you think is happening with all the stacks of money that in your opinion is surplus from estates sold etc.?

[Shiwiii]

14 hours ago, Anna said:

So in your opinion, what do you think is happening with all the stacks of money that in your opinion is surplus from estates sold etc.?

That's just it, I don't think anyone knows. It certainly isn't being used to expand kh's or literature. What was the last "book" produced? God's Kingdom Rules? or the return to Jehovah ? I'd hardly call those "books", and as far as older books, those have been phased out almost completely with nothing to fill the gap left. 

Speculation is one thing, I'm not claiming they are using this money for this or that, but taking a hard look at what IS happening is a completely other thing. The past 5 years has not produced anything worthy of that kind of money. 

[JayDubya]

On 3/10/2017 at 10:09 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.

According to that EXACT same reasoning .... IF I MURDERED SOMEONE ( ... my Doctor recommended that I should kill the people that irritate me ... not exactly in those same words ... he said I needed to reduce my stress level ...) , and there was ONLY one Witness ... I would get a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card from the Congregational  Elders ... AND they would not report me to the Police, OR sanction me Congregationaly .... as there was ONLY one Witness.

.They would be obligated to report me IF ... they learned I was GOING to kill someone ...  but without two witnesses the ONE Witness that SAW me kill someone ... it would be my word against his, and according to current INSANE doctrine ... the Elders would be required to "Leave it in Jehovah's hands".

This is what happens when you extrapolate the rules that were for a SPECIFIC time period, and worked in a SPECIFIC culture to include all people, everywhere. 

FAILURE !

..... excuse me ... I have to practice my Mad Scientist maniacal laughter while rubbing on copious amounts of hand lotion ....

They REAL reason that we have the shunning policy where rational humans are NOT ALLOWED to talk to each ... is it has to be kept hidden ... where the "bodies" are.

  .... and of course ... there is that awkward moment when you are burying a body in the back yard ... and find other bodies.

 

Let me see... the ONE witness that saw you and the DEAD person! There's your two witnesses!

If someone goes looking for 'jack' and 'jack's' found dead, and you were the last one seen walking into his flat- and no more 'jack' AND the conscious moves the person to say they SAW you kill him - AND that person is 'credible' - well, your guilty as charged by three witness:          

1. Credible witness

2. Dead Jack

3. Circumstances 

 

LoL. I solved the crime!  Unfortunately, this would be too much for a victim to go through.   Too much trauma not to be believed.  Sadly, it happens.  ?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, Sharon Washington said:

Let me see... the ONE witness that saw you and the DEAD person! There's your two witnesses!

If someone goes looking for 'jack' and 'jack's' found dead, and you were the last one seen walking into his flat- and no more 'jack' AND the conscious moves the person to say they SAW you kill him - AND that person is 'credible' - well, your guilty as charged by three witness:          

1. Credible witness

2. Dead Jack

3. Circumstances 

 

LoL. I solved the crime!  Unfortunately, this would be too much for a victim to go through.   Too much trauma not to be believed.  Sadly, it happens.  ?

Did you ever see the classic "must see" movie "Deliverance"?  Bodies and evidence disappear, or is never found or linked ....  all the time. 

There are infinite variety scenarios to everything ... including making, in the game of Golf, a "hole in one" that would NEVER have happened if not for a squirrel that dropped an acorn out of its mouth a hundred years ago, it grew into an oak tree, and now in the present day, the golf ball bounced off of the tree ... rolled across the green, and plopped into the little cup.

Add time element to "WOW! What are the chances of THAT ( ... pick anything the mind can imagine ..) happening ?".

It helps to think about such things after three beers, while sitting in a darkened room, in a comfortable chair.

This would be an "Infinite Variety" scenario.

Let's say I murdered "Bro. Jack" .....  "Bro. Bobby" saw me do it, and I took the body several states away and buried it in a corn field ... and denied I had ever been with Bro. Jack and Bro. Bobby that day ... that I had been, say, walking in the woods taking photos somewhere in the other direction.

To everybody else but Bro. Bobby .... Jack just disappeared.

According to the "two witness rule", the elders COULD NOT EVEN REPORT ME TO THE POLICE for investigation.

Why?

Only one Witness.

BRO. BOBBY, however,  could report me to the police, as any responsible man with a conscience would and should, and would HAVE to do to avoid MORAL complicity in a CRIMINAL activity, and and deny JUSTICE to Bro. Jack.

If we as claimants to God's special favor, and carry his Name,  deny basic, elemental, natural human MORALITY, that even most atheists are born with, and continually pervert Justice ... it is WRONG .. and a great slander and reproach on our God, Jehovah, and his reputation.

... and, it makes the administrators of those policies ..... EVIL.

... and a million published words, spoken and written a thousand times, will not make that go away.

[Anna]

18 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

According to the "two witness rule", the elders COULD NOT EVEN REPORT ME TO THE POLICE for investigation.

Why should they take Bobby's word for it? What if Bobby is not the sharpest tool in the box? Or what if Bobby has raised false alarms in the past? But they should definitely encourage Bobby to go to the police and the police can start their investigative process.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

15 minutes ago, Anna said:

Why should they take Bobby's word for it? What if Bobby is not the sharpest tool in the box? Or what if Bobby has raised false alarms in the past? But they should definitely encourage Bobby to go to the police and the police can start their investigative process.

It does not matter if they take Bobby's word for it or not ... OUR responsibility is to DO WHAT WE CAN ... all that we can .. for basic JUSTICE!

ESPECIALLY for those in our extended family of the Brotherhood!

FOR EVERYBODY!

.Otherwise, like those men who refuse to take care of their families ...  we are worse than those who are without the Truth.

.

 

[Anna]

15 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

That's just it, I don't think anyone knows. 

Perhaps they are building giant underground bunkers to survive Armageddon?

No seriously, it seems to me you are just being septical without having concrete proof for anything. Perhaps you should start another thread since it really doesn't belong here, and then we can discuss it to death.

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

According to the "two witness rule", the elders COULD NOT EVEN REPORT ME TO THE POLICE for investigation

You will have to think of a better example because reporting Bro. Jack as a missing person would open the investigation regardless of any ambiguity over "who dunnit?"

[TrueTomHarley]

22 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

. It only took over a year to affirm what I have stated all along. The mere fact that these people start their dialog with” I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, or “as a Witness” is profaning the very utterance of God’s name, by perverting it.

Much as I hesitate to offer observation to Allen because he knows more than I do on most things: on the internet, you assume up front that everyone is a liar. It's icing on the cake if it turns out otherwise, and you never know for sure, because they are digital bits. Through participation in one thread and reading this one, I get an idea of who is who. But I don't know any of it. Nor does anyone know if that guy in the blue shirt and goofy hat is really me. Nor do I assume the overlords here are Witnesses; if they are, they certainly are avant-garde Witnesses. They're all liars, or potential liars, on the internet. It's only those you personally know that you can be sure of.

I have an entire circuit full of people that like me, and I them. I know who they are, or can readily find out. If I want association, I go there. If I want to brawl, I come here. I'll keep coming here, because sometimes I like to brawl. (or share something light somewhere else) But it's hardly fine association as can be had among real people. And I don't offer suggestions to God's organization as to how to conduct itself because no one has asked me. Anyone here who asks me doesn't count.

[Anna]

14 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nor do I assume the overlords here are Witnesses; if they are, they certainly are avant-garde Witnesses. They're all liars, or potential liars, on the internet. It's only those you personally know that you can be sure of.

That's why one shouldn't take anything personally and keep things merely factual, without too much emotion. These are merely discussions (or unfortunately sometimes debates) and people expressing their views and opinions and then giving reasons for their views and opinions. It we can respect that, then one can have some meaningful discussions sometimes.....Just my opinion!