Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Arauna:

Of course not, I highly respect your carefully considered opinions, even when I do not agree with them. And I never take offense at carefully considered criticisms, or even baseless malignant and ignorant insults, which I find entertaining and funny.

I came into the TRUTH over a half-century ago because it was the truth, as I understood truth at that time.

... but years before that, in 1962, if memory serves, I adopted the oath Thomas Jefferson declared:

"for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

... when my life was galvanized and changed forever by a single 4 cent postage stamp.

I do not find our core beliefs incompatible with either my oath of baptism, which, because I was baptized before 1985, when they changed the oath and it did NOT include the Corporate  "Association" clause, or Thomas Jefferson's oath ... which also became my own.

Different people see different things, like the old poem by John Godfrey Saxe of the Elephant being examined by six blind men traveling together.

https://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/blind-men-and-the-elephant.htm

" Blind Men and the Elephant – Theological Truth
When it comes to the moral of the Blind Men and the Elephant, it seems that today’s philosophers end their agenda too quickly. Doesn’t the picture of the blind men and the elephant also point to something bigger -- The elephant? Indeed, each blind man has a limited perspective on the objective truth, but that doesn’t mean objective truth isn’t there. In fact, truth isn’t relative at all… It’s there to discover in all its totality. In theology, just because we have limited access to Truth, that doesn’t mean any and all versions of Truth are equally valid. Actually, if we know the Whole Elephant is out there, shouldn’t this drive us to open our eyes wider and seek every opportunity to experience more of Him?  "

Who can disagree with THAT?

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 4/21/2017 at 19:20, Shiwiii said:

No one should be banned from worshiping in the manner in which they see fit. 

Hi Shiwiii :). This is very democratic and modern attitude. But I think how things are on other levels. Namely, GB like very much to talk about "bible principles" and many of them are in OT. IN Old Testament The LAW said people have to be stoned and killed if they "worshiping in the manner they see fit."     :))))))))))

So, think that it is count only - who have power and authority in the moment. In one old WT magazine GB shared the same look on the apostates and stoning them if they can, but because we live in our time and political systems that is not possible for GB to put in practice.

[Witness]

On 10/17/2017 at 12:22 AM, Arauna said:

One thing I have noticed with people who have no regard for Jehovah and his organization on this forum

I have heard no person here who is not a JW, say they have disregard for God.  What they reject is how an organization has merged itself with God, as if God and the organization are one; thus, an idol.

“To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal
And compare Me, that we should be alike?"  Isa 46:5

Interesting.  Add the fact that it is touted as "spirit-directed" and you have a three person unity. Although, the true identities of this triune are:

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, (organization) and out of the mouth of the false prophet (GB) For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth  (anointed ones) and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."  Rev 16:13,14

   

[Arauna]

Watched your video - first of all - they have not built and sold and built and sold buildings.  Those buildings in Brooklyn were the  head-offices since they acquired them until now. They needed to get out of that area. I read and article which explained this. Technology has changed and so has logistics.  Many of the films are outsourced to different branches.  We have much less magazines being printed now. Every branch gets a video to produce - and why is he politicizing this?  It is easier for the GB to delegate.   We are not an American company.  Our branches are registered all over the world - it is law. The GB only oversee the most important function - the food at proper time - and delegate this!  So we are an international organization. I smell a nationalistic USA-rat in these comments and you fell for it hook line and sinker!

When one serves Jehovah one chooses a life-long career and serves 'where ever' you can.  If one goes to serve in the building area you get skills you did not have before and can go and open a small business of your own afterward. Most pioneers (outside Bethel) do not have that! They get by on part-time work wherever they can find it to do the preaching work.  I do not see them whining!

BUT the other side of the coin is: some opportunistic individuals want to get into Bethel so they can have a long and "secure" career while getting a roof over their head and a plate of food every day.   I am sorry, my heart does not cry for someone who professes to have had all the right motives and then after he is let go, shows that he did not have all the right motives after all - and then lets a brother go and smear his brothers as if they have done him a grave injustice!  It reminds me of Cain..... Jehovah told him to not let the evil control him.... and he did not get control of it.    Now this poor soul has to work for a living like everyone else!   After being in a cozy institutionalized position he is angry because it is not perpetuated!  

When you let people go it is usually the ones who are not bringing their full share or do jobs that are no longer needed - am I right?  Any company in the world works this way.   Why should they tolerate hangers-on who is more of a burden than an asset?  His attitude may have got him fired...  so whiney and this brother gave him all the wrong advice - he is not a helpless individual..... he must stand up and be a man.

Most pioneers clean buildings to pioneer!  I know several of them - and they do it cheerfully! You do not need skills for that. He can do that. .... but no .... he is whining because he now has a "reality" hitting him and he has to take responsibility for his own life! 

We are living in the 21 century - technology changing all the time.  When there was a lot of printing to do (in 20th century) it was the case that they looked after you until after retirement! He wants the world-wide brothers pay for his keep until he dies because he willingly donated some of his time to them?  My advice to him.... grow up and be a man!

And your deviant personality is showing by posting this video!  You have no wisdom- only some knowledge!

 

Revelation is misapplied.... like many of your other scriptures quoted.  You think because you intimate that you are anointed that you have special skills or "insight" that no-one else has. You forget - there is a final sealing before the end. Now you find yourself without a congregation - and there is an instruction from Jehovah to meet with brothers in Hebrews 10. You are not keeping this command - be aware of that! There are many other commands you are breaking by "beating your brothers" publically.

If I put myself in your shoes- say if you were right on many things - you are still running ahead...... We have instruction from Jesus not to do this. You are stuck on you own ego and having to be "right" and be praised for having the organization change to your special insights!  You reject their correction and willfully go ahead with your own ideas.  Soft-spoken and willful.  (I had some ideas of my own...... but I have held them back.....  I have not run ahead of the organization...... just like Jesus did.)  He had no ego because he only spoke what his father had given him and he served perfectly until death.  Satan wanted undue attention and his desires got him in the position he is in today. It was not about "truth" to him was about being the one with the special light!

You have the same attitude I see with many apostates.  You ignore the bits you do not want to see and just answer the bits you can and then you go around and around on the same track and mislead those who fall for your ideas.  I call it the one mind track - the nihilistic and destructive track.  I believe that wisdom is knowledge which is applied - not just knowledge!  

I agree with the brothers - there is time to look at yourself or go ahead on your destructive path! And admit it - by posting this video your hate is showing.  John said: without love for brothers it is impossible to please Jehovah!

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

We are not an American company.

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

BUT the other side of the coin is: ...

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Any company in the world works this way.   Why should they tolerate ...

:))))))))))))))))))) Dear Aruna you supporting and defending two statement that  are opposite to each other. Hard to understand  . One defending holiness of WT organization but other supporting "worldly" way of how WT dealing with office stuff, personnel, workers on various levels inside the WT Corporation. 

But i agree on your thoughts, how many bro and sis have personal ("hidden", ahahhahaa motives why want to be in Bethel) Some are benevolent and tolerantly, some are naive and some are looking for "status" in JW society. This characteristic proves that JW member are not so much different, better then "worldly" people. As popular song say, "people are the same where ever you go  ..... tralalallaala". 

[Arauna]

I worked as a reporter and then as a public relations officer for a few large organizations - sitting in on all the board meetings etc. to publicize the companies' strategy.  

I speak from a worldly perspective - a business perspective.  I would not keep redundant workers if my business suffered. Companies do not exist to be a gravy train - but people expect the JW organization to be NICE and IN-efficient -  just because it is a spiritual organization?  They expect the organization to keep on "supporting certain individuals" even if their job has become obsolete?..... With money that other witnesses pay for furthering the preaching work?  What makes this individual so special that he gets supported for life but thousands of other volunteers in the field have to work hard and do their preaching without assistance from the GB. Everyone knows when they enter Bethel that it may be for a long time or a short time but their tenure is not assured.... it is volunteer work after all.  They can leave any time.....

Personal vendettas and these kind of things have no place in the organization. We are not different to other people - the same as everyone else.  The only difference is that one cannot remain a Witness without Jehovah's spirit.  So, if for some reason you have neglected your relationship with Jehovah it will show in a bad attitude! ....especially towards others.....  You start beating on brothers.  I know of very few brothers and sisters who have not had reason to complain...about some perceived unfairness...by someone.... because this world is not perfect and not all brothers act as they should..... but most forgive and get on with the work and keep the unity.  Other people turn nasty and pamper their victimhood! Like an obstructive child!

[Arauna]

The other answer of Witness shows ignorance regarding procedures of JWs ......or a deliberate twisting of the facts.  We use scriptures in the 'New Testament' for not associating with those who have become apostates..... not the Old testament.

'Witness' made the accusation that we are inherently violent and would stone if we could - that is a blatant lie!  We would not be following Christ if we had a violent attitude when Jesus said we must love our enemies - especially those who do not love Christ.  I work every day amongst people who could kill me and if circumstances change they most probable will! A pioneer sister recently had her throat cut while on field service.  We carefully work amongst our enemies who have personalities like wolves.

However - the principles are different for those amongst us who have gone back to their "vomit" - apostates. Those people are avoided as they pose a threat to our spirituality and  a threat to the morality and unity of the congregation.  The instruction from the scriptures are not to greet or not to eat with these people. This means that we must avoid association.  THEY are the ones who turn hostile and show their true personality  because they still want to associate with us but resent having to stick to the principles laid down by Jesus through the apostles.

If you want to belong to a golf club - you have to stick to the rules.  If not - you are let go.  Why do people expect JWs to tolerate all kinds of bad behavior when organizations in the WORLD do not even tolerate it?  Their logic is faulty because they are blind to the problem that they have a problem with the authority of Christ and do not want to obey his principles. They deem themselves above the law of Christ. 2 John 9-11

 

[Arauna]

Apologies - Mr S Sostar indicated that we use OT scriptures....

[TrueTomHarley]

34 minutes ago, Arauna said:

We would not be following Christ if we had a violent attitude when Jesus said we must love our enemies - especially those who do not love Christ.  I work every day amongst people who could kill me and if circumstances change they most probable will! A pioneer sister recently had her throat cut while on field service.  We carefully work amongst our enemies who have personalities like wolves.

Someone here made the charge that mental illness is higher among JWs than elsewhere, with the cryptic challenge: 'look it up.' When asked to produce proof by someone who did look it up and found only similar unsupported allegations, he immediately caved. 

I've heard the allegation before. I get around it by pointing out that, even if it were true, it is no more than what you would expect when Jesus says he came to seek, not those who do not need a physician, but those that do. The groups to worry about, to my mind, are those who have low rates of mental illness among them, for there are a lot of those people around. It must be that they feel excluded - driven away by condescension or lack of love or hospitality. 

I would not say our people suffer especially from mental illness, and even if I did, I would attach no stigma to it - a stigma is the very reason certain ones try to make the charge stick. From what I have seen on this forum, certain opposers - not all of them or even most of them - are the ones who are pure loonytoons, not the Witnesses who comment. 

Plus, if our people go off the rails, they nonetheless wouldn't hurt a fly. But if persons of the greater world go off the rails - better call the SWAT team and get a new identity from the FBI!

[Arauna]

When people bring in their own teachings and try to promote their own thoughts they are acting directly against Christ.  We were warned about this were we not?  They say their tongue is sweet but the fountain is pure poison to those who listen to them.  They try to sow doubt with the inexperienced - they are cunning deceivers - and it  comes from the ego.

I have not much love for those who try to mislead the inexperienced! And I see many of them here.  I am not over-reacting.... or vitriolic.     It is serious when people bring disruptive teachings here without their contributions being contested! 

[Arauna]

I am not here to determine if people have a mental illness - I just respond to what they say or do which is a reflection of their thoughts.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I am not in ANY way criticizing the far afield meanderings this thread has taken ... just a reminder that the topic

"Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?"

... is still a topic that is open, and without a real answer.

Without evidence other than 50 or so years of watching ... it appears to me that (OF COURSE!), it's because they do not WANT the general Brotherhood to know the REAL reasons, specifically, of why we were banned... not as individuals ... but the Organization was banned. 

The ORGANIZATION was made illegal, and it's property was confiscated.

An individual Russian Jehovah's Witnesses Family got highly honored awards in public ceremonies by President Putin, at the same time the Organization was dissolved.

...just a thought .. now, back to the regular programming, already in progress.

.