Jehovah’s Witnesses former members tell court they were subjected to ‘total control’

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Jay Witness said:

 

TRUE JEHOVAH"S WITNESSES did not dedicate themselves to a Governing Body. They dedicated their lives to Jehovah and Jesus...

..... [and they don't] study and preaching to an elite few in a studio from New York 

 

As a practical matter, this appears to be a case of persons sitting in the terminal because the old pilot retired and the new one isn't the same as the old one.

Nonetheless, they insist to everyone at the airport the they are yet the True Passengers, even though everyone else left for their destination long ago with the new pilot, whose updated airplane even includes video screens.

As far as I can see, pretty much everyone watches the presentations.

[Guest]

Jay Witness, I have been a JW for decades also, been around them since age 11 and baptized for 31 years!  You call yourself Jay Witness but your words belie that claim, you must be an apostate, so I am not going to read your stuff anymore!  I am new here and figuring people out, and even some of the true JWs are murmuring on here!

[Melinda Mills]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 2:46 PM, Anna said:

These are all excuses.  Assigning blame on something or someone else instead of accepting we went the direction we didn’t really want to go, or changed our mind about the direction later. Most of these accusations are only a cover up for immorality and other behaviours unacceptable in the Christian congregation. The congregation has to be kept morally and doctrinally clean.  Recommendation against higher education is just that, recommendation.  Humans are very, very good at blaming and making excuses, and have been since the creation of Adam

People make excuses all the time.  If they can find a scapegoat they will.

I know someone who was offered a scholarship by the government of the day to study for a professional career, as his talent and qualifications were evident. (He was subsequently offered the same scholarship on two more occasions and did not accept.) He did not pursue any studies - just stayed in the field he was in at the ordinary level of a government officer. Years later after seeing that he was not as successful as he might have been with a professional qualification he laid the blame on his mother who raised him as a Witness.  He did not take into consideration that he was baptized for some years, was of legal age, and that the scholarships were offered to him several times and that his mother would not have footed the bill.

One or two of the contributors here have recently said that many of us could have been better off with a little more education and more purposeful planning of our lives, though not leaving out spiritual things.  However, even with this mistaken idea that you cannot be a spiritual person with a sound secular education, many of them have been able to provide for their families albeit with some difficulties.  The person is still a Witness along with his family - so there is still some success. (Hebrews 6:10)

Diligence and capability in all things can make life easier.  We have the example of Joseph, Mordecai, Esther, Daniel and the three Hebrew officials, Nehemiah, and  they were probably others not mentioned (John 21:25) who were diligent in all areas of their lives.  They put spiritual things first but were also excellent in their secular work.  If we have insight we will notice that God did not despise them for this. God used Joseph, Mordecai and Esther to save his people from annihilation; God use Nehemiah to restart true worship.

Today we also note that several persons are working in branch offices  who are well qualified secularly as well as spiritually.  I know quite a few whose parents sent them to study despite the suggestions.  I know of four of these who are now working in branch offices either full time or part time and others as resource persons.  (Isaiah 60:16)

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

One or two of the contributors here have recently said that many of us could have been better off with a little more education and more purposeful planning of our lives, though not leaving out spiritual things.  However, even with this mistaken idea that you cannot be a spiritual person with a sound secular education, many of them have been able to provide for their families albeit with some difficulties.  The person is still a Witness along with his family - so there is still some success. (Hebrews 6:10)

A while back there was discussion of the NPR story:

"Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses" 

I read the article, but I didn't have to. The title says it all. Just where do you look for fulfillment of your dreams? This system of things or the one to come?

[Queen Esther]

7 hours ago, Nicola said:

Jay Witness, I have been a JW for decades also, been around them since age 11 and baptized for 31 years!  You call yourself Jay Witness but your words belie that claim, you must be an apostate, so I am not going to read your stuff anymore!  I am new here and figuring people out, and even some of the true JWs are murmuring on here!

Please,  lets  be  careful  and  NOT  judging  here !  Maybe  its  your  opinion  -  okay.  But  ONLY  ONE  has  to  judge  and  that  is  Jehovah,  right ?  Only  from  writing  you  never  know  a  human / JW.  -  I  understand  your  feelings...  you're  new  here,  but  SO  fast  with  judging ?  My  advice,  watching  us  all  for  a  time,  maybe  your  thinking  is  little  different.  I  know  some  of  us  more  years,  thats  the  reason  I  write  you.    Greetings  from  Germany

[Guest]

Queen Esther He claimed that we shouldn't be disfellowshipping, I am not judging when I question him for saying that, he is speaking against our teachings!  I am new here and I am upset by the murmuring that I am seeing, and I am further upset that you would claim that I am judging him when he is picking apart our organization which is clearly condemned!  This is not a place where JWs should be hanging out, and I can see that now, and will see about deleting my account!  I don't like what I am seeing here!  The remark about Greetings from Germany, doesn't soften what you just said to me now!  I am surprised you would defend someone for saying that we are wrong for disfellowshipping,

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, Nicola said:

  I am surprised you would defend someone for saying that we are wrong for disfellowshipping,

The young and inexperienced are very often surprised ... that fades away as you get older and nothing except a head on car collision surprises you.

In 1980 I had a drunk hit me head on ... destroyed both cars ... THAT surprised me!  I had about 3/4 of a second to put an iron grip on the steering wheel, and tuck my head and close my eyes so I would not get glass in them. When I woke up it was feeling my hand on the door handle trying to open the door, so even unconscious, I was trying to get out of the car, as there was hot radiator fluid and gas all about, with broken glass.

I was not the slightest bit upset, though ... as STUFF HAPPENS .. in fact I was THRILLED that I had no blood or bones showing through, and that I was still alive.

Interactions with humans are like that .... head on collisions, that MIGHT have killed you ... think ahead so correct responses are AUTOMATIC.

Disfelowshipping was not practiced institutionally in the early Christian Congregation ... not the way it's done today ... to discipline ONE PERSON we destroy his entire family relationships ... aunts, uncles, nieces, parents, children, grandparents, friends. etc.   This is something INDIVIDUALS are charged with.

It's just like if you were my employee ... I can severely restrict your freedom of speech as I see fit .. or fire you ...but when I cut off all your friends after work, and interaction with relatives ... that is EVIL.

This is why Jehovah's Witnesses, who are in fact God's people ... have the highest "churn rate" of any religion in America .... people here as a general rule recognize tyranny when they see it ... not tyranny like being marched to a mass grave and shot in the back of the head .. but petty tyranny is still tyranny.

All Societies evolve in cycles ... and we are no exception.  This is NOT NEW.

No surprises here.

.

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Nicola said:

  I am new here and I am upset by the murmuring that I am seeing, and I am further upset that you would claim that I am judging him when he is picking apart our organization which is clearly condemned!  This is not a place where JWs should be hanging out, and I can see that now, and will see about deleting my account!  I don't like what I am seeing here!  

I think they're all crazy here, myself included. Well - if not crazy, at least they all have some special reasons for writing. Actually, some of them I like, and I may even cut myself a tiny bit of slack, but there's no getting around the fact that - this isn't the type of hangout the Watchtower has in mind when in speaks of associations, is it? Perhaps you could most charitably describe the atmosphere as avant-guard.

Do you belong here, Nicola? You come across as a very good person, a trusting person, who expected something very different than the exchange of remarks here. Even with your exchange with so and so, I suspect you would be fine friends in the congregation where you would work shoulder to shoulder, interact face to face, along with the other friends, and readily get to know where each other is coming from.

On the internet, there is no way to determine anything about anyone other than their comments themselves, and that takes a while and can never be known for sure. There's no point in asking someone if he is a brother or not. How would you know if he is being truthful? You don't even know if the profile picture he uses is genuine. The internet is not the congregation.

After an initial skirmish, I have carried on at great length about the ignorant, disgusting, controlling battleaxe of a Librarian, who I'm not afraid of one bit. My DESCRIPTION fooled even HIS LOUDNESS. In fact, she is a he.

[bruceq]

15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 

On the internet, there is no way to determine anything about anyone other than their comments themselves........ In fact, she is a he.

So how do we know this for sure? That he is a she? Perhaps the Librarian is not human at all but an AI a computer algorithm designed just to irritate you. lol  

[Witness]

On 4/14/2017 at 4:06 AM, Mickey said:

I admit, even some elders in some congregation may impose their personal opinions on you, but that is what it is - their personal opinion. That have nothing to do with being a Witness. Like Derek mentioned, there's no compulsion in serving God.

There is no compulsion in serving God - only in serving men.

If we love the elders and respect their work, we will be obedient and submissive to them.  Wt. 12/5/15 pp. 21-26

[AveragePub]

I really do not care what a former member has to say.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

55 minutes ago, AveragePub said:

I really do not care what a former member has to say.

That is what makes average people, average people.

In the July 7, 1879 "Zion's Watch Tower" Charles Taze Russell was making life miserable for the Clergy of his day, and was the subject of malice, slander, envy, hatred and contention, as a former member of Christendom who the Clergy  characterized  as Satan, himself..

In an article "What is Truth" of that issue he stated  " A truth presented by Satan himself is JUST AS TRUE as a truth stated by God.".

"WHAT IS TRUTH?"

This question is one which every sincere Christian should 
ask and seek to answer. We 
should learn to love and value truth for its own sake; to 
respect and honor it by owning 
and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomsoever 
presented. A truth 
presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth 
stated by God. 

Perhaps no class of people are more apt to overlook this fact 
than the Christian. How 
often do they in controversy overlook and ignore truth 
presented by their opponents. 
This is particularly the case when arguing with an infidel. 
They feel at perfect liberty to 
dispute everything he says on religious subjects. This is not 
the correct principle. Many 
infidels are honest— as anxious to speak and believe the 
truth as are Christians— and if in 
converse with them we ignore truths which they may advance, 
we not only fail to 
convince them of our truths, but put an end to all hope of 
reaching them; for our failure 
to admit the evident truth which they advance begets in them 
contempt for the one who 
is not honest enough to admit one truth because he does not 
see how it can be reconciled 
to another. Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what 
it contradicts, 
and rely for ability to afterwards harmonize it with others 
upon "The Spirit of truth, 
which shall guide you into all truth," as Jesus promised. 

Truth, like a modest little flower in the wilderness of life, 
is surrounded and almost 
choked by the luxuriant growth of the weeds of error. 
If you would find it you must be 
ever on the lookout. If you would see its beauty you must
brush aside the weeds of error 
and the brambles of bigotry. If you would possess it you must 
stoop to get it. 

Be not content with one flower of truth. Had one been 
sufficient there would have been 
no more. Gather ever, seek for more. 

Weave them together as a garland —"Bind them on thee as a 
bride doeth." "Bind them 
about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
 so shalt thou find favor and 
good understanding in the sight of God and man." Prov. 3:3. 

C.T.R. 

=========================================================

Or as Gene Hackman playing Lex Luthor in the first Superman movie, circa 1979 said ....

" Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."