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Queen Esther

IS THERE PREPARING THE THIRD WORLD WAR?......

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5 hours ago, bruceq said:

The Christians had to obey certain "instuctions" to survive the Great Tribulation in the first century.

Weren't those instructions directly from Jesus?

With my question "HOW will the discreet slave of Jehovah's Witnesses, lead us to survive the great tribulation" my intention was not at all to cast doubts on the FDS, but plainly and simply to see if anyone had any ideas as to the PRACTICAL meaning of the statement "that only if we remain united with the authentic and discreet slave of Jehovah's Witnesses, will lead us to survive the great tribulation. . Do we have reasons to believe that the FDS will receive some miraculous instructions from Jesus himself? Which they then will pass onto everyone else? To me, this does not seem likely and I do not think the FDS thinks this way either. After all, this is not how it functions now. So would that change in the GT? Is there some scriptural evidence for believing that the FDS will receive some special instruction by way of a revelation of some sort? (Bearing in mind also that we believe the remnant will receive their heavenly reward during that time and will be gone from the earth). From the last convention it was implied that we will be grouped together, hiding some place, in this case a basement. A kind of US and THEM scenario. Of course the brothers admitted this is just speculation, and that it may be quite different in reality. Is Jehovah not able to save individuals in whatever situation they may find themselves in, maybe even separated from their friends? It seems that the criterion for surviving is described well by Peter:

"Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah...... Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace." (2 Peter 3: 11-14) And other scriptures such as Matt 24:13, Romans 10:9,10, John 3:36, John 3:16, Heb. 7:25, Acts 16:30, 31 and I am sure you can think of many more. Conversely there are many scriptures showing who will NOT be saved.

The other point about being devoted to men, is covered very well in JWInsider's comment, I just want to add one little thing I thought about. If we were devoted to "men" what would happen if a member would become apostate as has happened in the past? There is no guarantee in men. The only unfailing guarantee we have is in Jesus and Jehovah as revealed in the Bible. As for organizational procedures and suggestions, these we find on the website, but mainly in the shape of letters to the congregations. That is not to say the FDS does not provide us abundantly with spiritual food via the WT and other publications and we are grateful for that. But it is still our personal duty to make sure all is in harmony with the scriptures. The FDS expects us to do that also.

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Weren't those instructions directly from Jesus?

Of course but since he was not alive in 66 C.E. it was through humans who were taking the lead. For more info see the Feb. 2017 article "Who Is Leading God's People Today for our position.

And to JW insider : Just because we follow the admonition at Acts 2:42 does not make us idolators. For more info. on what we believe see the above Watchtower article. Thanks

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13 minutes ago, bruceq said:

Just because we follow the admonition at Acts 2:42 does not make us idolators.

That's very true. What would make us idolators is if we devoted ourselves to imperfect men. We would be idolators if we devoted ourselves to the apostles. We would be idolators if we devoted ourselves to the Governing Body. 

16 minutes ago, bruceq said:

For more info. on what we believe see the above Watchtower article. Thanks

Thanks. Most of the scriptures that I mentioned in my post are mentioned in that article.

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48 minutes ago, bruceq said:

Of course but since he was not alive in 66 C.E. it was through humans who were taking the lead.

Regarding the instructions Jesus left his followers about the destruction of Jerusalem, yes, this was passed on to others, and they had scrolls with the prophesy written in them. Many who personally heard those instructions from Jesus were still alive. However, if one is to believe the video "Walk By Faith Not by Sight" it was very much on an individual, or at most familial, basis that the faithful Christians fled to the mountains. Jesus's words as recorded in the scrolls was what individuals followed, as all Christians were familiar with them. At the elders meeting that was held (in the video) it was confirmed that this was evidently the time to flee, because what was written in the scrolls coincided with what was happening around them.

I know the WT article. I am not aware anything I have said contradicts it. If there is, let me know.

 

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"Insider" said :"That's very true. What would make us idolators is if we devoted ourselves to imperfect men. We would be idolators if we devoted ourselves to the apostles. We would be idolators if we devoted ourselves to the Governing Body". 

I do not agree with you but I do agree with Jehovah's Witnesses.

I am "devoted" to my wife that does not make me an idolater Acts 2:42..

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Just a P.S. really.

Ambiguity and misunderstanding can arise when using the word "devote". It has a range of meanings today that may obscure understanding the word as it is used in the NWT to translate original language expressions in mostly the Hebrew and to a lesser extent the Greek Scriptures.

Exodus 20:5 is relevant in this context; also 1Tim 4:8. As is the Miriam Webster definition:

Definition of devotion

1a :  religious fervor :  piety

1b :  an act of prayer or private worship —usually used in plural during his morning devotions c :  a religious exercise or practice other than the regular corporate (see corporate 2) worship of a congregation

2a :  the act of dedicating something to a cause, enterprise, or activity :  the act of devoting; the devotion of a great deal of time and energy

2b :  the fact or state of being ardently dedicated and loyal "her devotion to the cause";  filial devotion

3 (obsolete) :  the object of one's devotion

Probably another thread required to take this further.

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2 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Ambiguity and misunderstanding can arise when using the word "devote". It has a range of meanings today that may obscure understanding the word as it is used in the NWT to translate original language expressions in mostly the Hebrew and to a lesser extent the Greek Scriptures.

Thanks. I was thinking along the same lines. And maybe this is the same problem in the case of "if we remain united with the authentic and discreet slave of Jehovah's Witnesses, will lead us to survive the great tribulation". Am I or others misunderstanding what it's saying...?

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16 minutes ago, Anna said:

"if we remain united with the authentic and discreet slave of Jehovah's Witnesses, will lead us to survive the great tribulation"

The way I understand this is much better expressed in scripture, e.g. Rev. 7:14. Certainly, remaining united within the true Christian congregation, whatever form it takes, and however it is directed, will enable those faithful servants of Jehovah who are remaining at that time(no limitation on numbers implied)  to survive the great tribulation and Armageddon.

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8 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

The way I understand this is much better expressed in scripture, e.g. Rev. 7:14. Certainly, remaining united within the true Christian congregation, whatever form it takes, and however it is directed, will enable those faithful servants of Jehovah who are remaining at that time(no limitation on numbers implied)  to survive the great tribulation and Armageddon.

Yes, and this is why we are admonished to not forsake gathering ourselves, because this is where we can build one another up and encourage each other to stay faithful. However, this was not what I was talking about in my previous posts. It had to do more with surviving the GT. Would this necessarily depend on all of us being together, being guided by the FDS on what to do, specifically? What is the criterion for surviving the GT?

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1 minute ago, Anna said:

What is the criterion for surviving the GT?

 

15 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Rev. 7:14

Matt.24:34,40 is also applicable, and even Rom.10:13. As for the exact logistics of how exactly this will occur, I'll (hopefully) discuss it with you a little later. :)

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