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Russian JW's Begin to Remove Kingdom Halls Signs


Queen Esther

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20 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

The day “other” religions get the boot like the Watchtower? Then you can say? WeÂ’re all in the same boat. Meanwhile, the Watchtower is on a life raft, in open water, while other religions get to stay, inland even though they are harassed.

Do the "other religions destroy whole families to chastise one errant congregant?

Do the other religions require children to commit ritual medical suicide?

Do other religions have their congregants IN A LIFE BOAT with so many patches it looks covered in post-it-notes?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Aposticizing from Former TRUTH .jpg

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VERY  VERY  SAD....... RUSSIA....  OUR  BROTHERS  BEGIN  TO  REMOVE  SIGNS  FROM  THE  KINGDOM  HALLS ;-( Soon they will all belong to the government

Jehovah allows many testing situations to happen.  He will only intervene in this wicked world when the time is ready.  Satan is in control of this world and many bad things may still come to pass bef

I  hope  -  Jehovah  will  quickly  STOP  that  crazy  Russian  judgement  !!!! Our  poor  Brothers  and  Sisters ;-(( But  perhaps  it  belongs  to  Jehovah's  special  plan...  we  don't 

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6 hours ago, Arauna said:

Karl Marx was a Satanist! and many of his contemporaries atheists -  after which 40, million of its own Russian people were starved to death and murdered like fodder. This is the ideology where common  people are dispensable fodder.

Dark, anti-religious poetry does not make one a Satanist. I think it was best explained in a couple of short reviews for a book currently for sale on Am-a-zon called, "Was Karl Marx a Satanist?"

  • Marx was an atheist Jew. He neither believed in the Christian conception of Satan, nor the Anton LeVay concept of Satan. The author offers no evidence, confusing mere hostility toward religion with Satanism, and offers some syntax-related conspiracy theories.
  • "This sad book deosn't have any literary qualities whatsoever. This is pure Anti-semetic drivel full of ultra christian rhetoric from the extreme right. Marx was a philosopher and an idealist, this book doesnt examine him in anyway whatseoever it just descends into religious rants."

By the way, you have got to be the most interesting person to read on this forum and I always enjoy your politically-oriented comments. You do not come at the world's issues with the typical Eurocentric myopia that drives so many others (and which usually drives Adventist-style prophetic explanations, for that matter). Naturally, I disagree with a lot of what you say, too, but this doesn't much change the overall value of hearing your opinion on things.

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Mr. Rook: Satan also does field service.  And he does not count his hours either.  In fact he is just happy when he can get others destroyed.  What is your MO?

You act true to form to place a whole number of old destructive themes on here so we have to defend these all over again.  You are really tiresome in your OCD!  This is like a recurring theme from a groundhog nightmare movie - your wild accusations with wild words which are so baseless! LOL - You test our patience to the limit! If I was one of the modern youth at Yale  university I would have needed a trigger warning!

I refer to my old (long) discussions with you about the blood issue. How my own baby SURVIVED because she DID NOT receive blood when she had her cancer.  The surgery took the WHOLE DAY and it looked like she was going to die... and how she healed much faster after her blood stabilized and .........how many people die from blood but it is not put on their death certificates as anaphylactic shock... We have been though all this before!!

 

 

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13 hours ago, Anna said:

but if they wanted to get saved they would have to become Christians wouldn't they?

Anna, if by "have to become Christians" you thought on obligation that person become part of organized religion, in your case JWorg, or in case of other believers, Catholic or Adventist and so on... than i will not be so sure about that. 

Even in case that somebody became member of "only true religion" aka JWorg, that not be assurance for salvation, as you very well quoted Jesus words, “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ ...” so we can come to conclusion that is Gods choice to whom he give "salvation", no matter is person or not part of JWorg.

14 hours ago, Anna said:

That is not a scriptural teaching if you put it in a scriptural context.

Yes i have one fine bible example to support my view. Naaman, commander of army, gentile, idol worshiper, get salvation from JHVH without any BUT in spiritual, religious or moral proviso. Only BUT was about in what river to take a bath. After that Naaman recognize JHVH as  "only God" but there is no report he became "proselyte", worshiper of JHVH, left his family or nation or position as commander. He has some conscious dilemmas, it is explained in  5:18, but even that this was not problem for JHVH that Naaman make worship to idols. JHVH never, according to Bible reports, say something against Naaman or give any conclusion about that matter. So, he gave freedom to us to made some conclusion :)))))   

 

14 hours ago, Anna said:

how about God is preparing people to live under his government.

  He have hard job :) 

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5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Dark, anti-religious poetry does not make one a Satanist.

I don't buy this, either. Was he under the influence of Satan? Sure. But who isn't in the realm of 'man ruling man to his injury?'

It's even true with Putin. I wouldn't want to live in Russia. However those who already do seem not in a hurry to get out, short of some well-publicized ones and now those for religious reasons. It is but another form of human rulership. Not everything is atrocious about it. Some things are better.

If you try to peer in his pants and tell of his soiled underwear, he gets mad. Keep out of his way, and usually you do fine. In all lands it is: 'ask the king his ground rules for maintaining public order, and then do them.' Our life is not about human rule. Do what he says and get on with life. Of course, when he turns against you, siding with the house Church, you are up the crick and our brothers have it very tough for a time. The only caveat is that they are used to it, as we would not be.

Does Putin amass wealth for himself? American politicians do no less. They come in poor and they leave wealthy. They come in wealthy and the leave wealthier. Trump is one of the few who go against the pattern. He comes in wealthy and sees his interests take a hit.

I also don't buy that the top guy of almost any system of government is a thug. As often as not they are conscious of a responsibility to govern and provide for the public good. As far as I can see, it is true of Putin. The trouble is, these guys think that you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. They all think it. The problem with a system of concentrated power is that they are able to implement it. But that does not mean that their intention of providing public service for the citizenry is phony.

 

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7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Anna, if by "have to become Christians" you thought on obligation that person become part of organized religion, in your case JWorg, ... than i will not be so sure about that. 

I think we can be sure. You mentioned that I shouldn’t refer to God’s organization of the Jews, you said that was old, so then you referred to Jesus, as that being the new way. Well didn’t Jesus become the founder of Christianity?  Wasn’t it by divine providence his disciples became known as Christians, weren’t his disciples organized into congregations? I am sure you know the scriptures that talk along this theme, of not forsaking gathering together,....where two or three are gathered in Christ’s name.....to build one another up, you know about Paul’s letters being addressed to congregations, Jesus’ admonishing  the congregations (in Revelation), Jesus being the chief cornerstone of the congregation, etc. etc........

As for our day, well how else would you organize the global preaching work but by organization. Organization for many people has become a dirty word when it comes to religion. Why? Could it be because of organized religion’s bad reputation on the whole?

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ ...” so we can come to conclusion that is Gods choice to whom he give "salvation", no matter is person or not part of JWorg.

Of course, just because someone calls themselves a JW does not guarantee salvation, as the verse says: "but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will" so God's choice is based on those doing his will, as Jesus further says: " Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them...

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yes i have one fine bible example to support my view. Naaman, commander of army, gentile, idol worshiper, get salvation from JHVH without any BUT in spiritual, religious or moral proviso. Only BUT was about in what river to take a bath. After that Naaman recognize JHVH as  "only God" but there is no report he became "proselyte", worshiper of JHVH, left his family or nation or position as commander. He has some conscious dilemmas, it is explained in  5:18, but even that this was not problem for JHVH that Naaman make worship to idols

You come with ONE report, one that you would call “old”, as it pre- dates Christ, and with an ambiguous end, to support your view that God doesn’t care what you do as long as you “believe”.  In verse 18 Naaaman explains that as a servant of his lord he will go with him to the temple of Rimmon, and because his lord hangs onto his arm (maybe he is old?) when he bows down, Naaman will have to go down as well, but he will not be doing this in worship, but only because his lord is using his arm for support.  He definitely did NOT “make worship to idols”. We know how “jealous” Jehovah is of anyone worshipping someone else other than him. Paul, when writing to the Corinthians showed the seriousness of it: “ No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons. (1Corinth 10:20-21) So I think it most definitely would have been a problem to JHVH!

You definitely cannot have it both ways. "Doing" and "obedience" play a major role even if God "picked" you for salvation, the ultimate result of whether he saves you or not is dependent on YOU, on your obedience:  Romans 6:  15 – 17: What follows? Are we to commit a sin because we are not under law but under undeserved kindness? Certainly not!  Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey,  either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks to God that although you were once the slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that pattern of teaching to which you were handed over.

“ For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome”

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21 minutes ago, Anna said:

Well didn’t Jesus become the founder of Christianity?

In general, all names or labels, etiquette that have connections to Jesus way of teaching and living is given by people of 1. century or later. Jesus had not give any name to his own "movement". And if he organized something that has been, sending to preaching, nothing else. 

 

37 minutes ago, Anna said:

gathering together,....where two or three are gathered in ChristÂ’s name..

No problem! But it is need to understand how first Christ followers, as Paul who wrote many things about "organizing" in fact imitate Jews congregation that God rejected in the same time. Because they, first christians, was in fact Jews people, and they technically replicate religious system in which they lived. I the same time they tried to integrate NEW Teachings from his Master. New teachings that has been "apostate teaching" according to Jewish Clergy and Mosaic Law.

 

47 minutes ago, Anna said:

"but only the one doing the will....

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Doing" and "obedience" play a major role...

 

You Anna make complain if I find only one example in Bible :))) Maybe i am not reading enough to find more examples, heehe. Ok, i have again just one bible report on this.  The evildoer who was hang beside Jesus have no one of preconditions that JW said is crucial for salvation. Bible study, changing bad deeds to good deeds, prayers, congregational meetings, baptism, going to preaching and many other rules and commands that has to be obeyed.. He do only one thing, just said; "I believe!" So if Jesus accepted just words why you or other JW teaching how this is not enough? :) 

57 minutes ago, Anna said:

You come with ONE report,

    One report is enough if you believe that is inspired and truthful and that all Word is beneficial. OT and NT. I have permission to called it "old" because i as people from "Gentile" have no obligation to follow or to be in obey to  any of Mosaic law and command. So, i am free to consider and accept it or to be critical in my thinking about OT. The same is with NT also. Because, as i mentioned before, there is some "principles" or teachings that has their roots in OT congregations and Law. And as Jesus teaches, his disciples are not under obligation to obey and follow The Law. But in 1 century first congregation done just same mistake JW doing today, replicate OT Law in Christian congregation.  It is little delicate to discuss on this because it is tricky to see what is problem in fact. And my english is not enough also. Thanks to all who are patient with my grammar and all mistakes in writing :)) 

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7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And if he organized something that has been, sending to preaching, nothing else.

I'm glad you mentioned the preaching. There was of course a host of other things he taught and did so that his followers would be able to follow in his footsteps.

 

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But it is need to understand how first Christ followers, as Paul who wrote many things about "organizing" in fact imitate Jews congregation that God rejected in the same time. Because they, first christians, was in fact Jews people, and they technically replicate religious system in which they lived. I the same time they tried to integrate NEW Teachings from his Master. New teachings that has been "apostate teaching" according to Jewish Clergy and Mosaic Law.

I don't really see what this has anything to do with what I've been talking about....

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The evildoer who was hang beside Jesus have no one of preconditions that JW said is crucial for salvation. Bible study, changing bad deeds to good deeds, prayers, congregational meetings, baptism...... He do only one thing, just said; "I believe!" So if Jesus accepted just words why you or other JW teaching how this is not enough?

To be fair, hanging upon a stake about to die, I don’t think there was much chance of him doing any of those things even if he tried.  We on the other hand, have much more opportunity to show by our deeds on whose side we stand.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 One report is enough if you believe that is inspired and truthful and that all Word is beneficial. OT and NT. I have permission to called it "old" because i as people from "Gentile" have no obligation to follow or to be in obey to  any of Mosaic law and command. So, i am free to consider and accept it or to be critical in my thinking about OT. The same is with NT also. Because, as i mentioned before, there is some "principles" or teachings that has their roots in OT congregations and Law. And as Jesus teaches, his disciples are not under obligation to obey and follow The Law. But in 1 century first congregation done just same mistake JW doing today, replicate OT Law in Christian congregation.  It is little delicate to discuss on this because it is tricky to see what is problem in fact. And my english is not enough also. Thanks to all who are patient with my grammar and all mistakes in writing :)) 

I am not saying the report is bad, or even that ONE report is not good enough,  what I am saying is that this particular report is not supporting your conclusion because the end is inconclusive, we can’t say maybe this or maybe that happened, that does not prove anything, therefore that one example shouldn’t be used to support your argument. There are many many more scriptures that support the idea that to say "I believe" is not all that is needed for salvation. And have nothing to do with with The Law either.

I don't mind you trying to identify what the problem is, I think your English is very good and I can understand what you are saying, so go ahead!

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Sostar:

Christ - 'anointed one'.  Christians are followers of the anointed one from God (Jehovah)! The true messenger from Jehovah.

To think that the Christians just replicated the Jewish system shows a lack of knowledge of the Bible.  First of all the Jewish system and its many laws and special festivals and even special years represented something to come in the future. Each part of the temple had a special meaning and only the high priest could go into the most Holy. Each festival also had its fulfullment in Jesus.  Hebr 10:1; Col 2:17 "Those things are a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to Christ". 

The moment Jesus died (on Jewish pass over festival and most holy festival) the curtain in front of the Most Holy temple tore to show that Jesus is now the fulfillment of this. He is the new High priest who will go into heaven (The Most Holy presence of God) and lay down his human sacrifice before God. This is why the Jewish rituals were abandoned by Christians.  The only yearly ritual we now commemorate is the Death of Jesus - as instructed in the bible. Luke 22: 19& 20. This is when we pass the bread and wine in commemoration of new covenant. Hebr 8:6 

Christians broke away from the Jewish temple system.......and Jesus, while on earth, predicted that the temple would be destroyed (Matt 24) - so no Jew can still do the old Temple rituals.... because this was not longer the way to approach God. Today there still is no Jewish temple ..... so the Jews started a new Rabbi system and wrote the Mishnah and Talmud (which was later quoted by Mohammad). 

However, Jesus chose his foundation of the congregation -  the Apostles - to begin the preaching after his death and to organize the congregations with elders and ministerial servants to serve the brothers and do the most needed things.  He even gave a list of the qualifications to be an elder or ministerial servant in books Titus and Timothy and told Titus to appoint elders and correct the deviant brothers. Titus 1:5 and read further. Read Timothy 3.  So we today are organized like the early Christians were.  

It was later in the time of Constantine the Great (when Constantine incorporated many pagan teachings into the Catholic church) that we see buildings built like crosses and ritualistic institutions not acceptable to God. We are different to other Christians - do you know that ?

 

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