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    • By Jack Ryan
      For the majority of survivors of abuse, the new law is a welcome legal tool, but only for citizens of New York State. However, for Jehovah’s Witness victims, the legislation is far more significant. The Witness organization is headquartered in New York, which means that any and all cases from all 50 States are eligible where the Watchtower Organization is a defendant.
      The key to filing such cases revolves around Watchtower’s decades-old policy in which allegations of sexual abuse are handled internally as matters of “sin”- but are rarely if ever reported to law enforcement.
      ---------------
      As stated by New York’s Government Web Site, this new law:
      Provides that the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution of a sexual offense committed against a child shall not begin to run until the child turns 23 years of age. Provides that a civil action for conduct constituting a sexual offense against a child shall be brought before the child turns 55 years of age. Revives previously barred actions related to sexual abuse of children. Grants civil trial preference to such actions. Eliminates the notice of claim requirements for such actions when the action is brought against a municipality, the state or a school district. Requires judicial training relating to child abuse and the establishment of rules relating to civil actions brought for sexual offenses committed against children. These stipulations represent landmark changes to New York laws protecting minors, which previously placed unrealistic limits on the time given for victims to come forward and report abuse, or file a civil lawsuit seeking justice.
      Experts in the field now recognize that it may take 25, 30, 35 years or even longer before a victim of childhood abuse is able to disclose the crimes committed against them.
    • By Witness
      A message from a former Bethelite.
       
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Is it fair?
       
       
      Is it FAIR.wmv
    • By Jack Ryan
      Do not complain at Bethel exjw.mp4
    • By The Librarian
      Three years 23,000 volunteers Prayers, sweat and Holy Spirit The world headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses has been built in a beautiful setting in Warwick, New York. Are you looking forward to visiting?
    • By JW Insider
      I am writing this on Sunday 12/9 at about 3:30 PM.
      On Thursday night I drove up here to Warwick with relatives. We completed the five exhibits at Warwick, spoke with some Bethelites we knew, and attended the Sunday morning meeting held in the Bethel Auditorium where the "Long Meadow" congregation meets. This is a congregation of about 180 persons, some of whom travel from up to about half-an-hour away, and many (if not most) of the members are Bethelites who live in the HQ complex on site.
      Tomorrow we'll go to Wallkill.
      The first thing you notice from setting your smartphone maps and GPS routing systems is that the Warwick Bethel is not in Warwick. It's actually all within the borders and limits of Tuxedo Park, NY. If you look at the back of the Warwick Bethel brochure you'll see that 1 Kings Drive, Tuxedo Park, NY 10987 is the actual address. 
      The name was picked, I assume, because Warwick is a town just a little farther away, in another zip code (10990), and smaller than Tuxedo Park, but with a name that sounds just a bit more Biblical. It's a name that also sounds a bit more alliterative: as in, "Watchtower at Wallkill" and "Watchtower at Warwick." Wars, Wicks, Walls, and Kills are all found in the Bible, but no Tuxedos of any stripe.
      The exhibits were very good. I'll find my previous post that discusses them and try to get it to land below this one.
    • By The Librarian
      Your browser does not support the HTML5 video tag.
      An engineer who performed inspections of the Witnesses’ construction of their new world headquarters for the Town of Warwick shares his observations about the completed facilities.
    • By The Librarian
      Notice the new style Watchtower first built for Patterson back in 1990.
    • By The Librarian
      JW.org headquarters at night.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Two European tourists with measles potentially exposed others at three Jehovah's Witness facilities in the greater New York City area, health officials said Saturday night.
      The two tourists visited the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses on New Jersey Avenue in Brooklyn between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. on April 15.
      They also visited Watchtower World Headquarters on Kings Drive in Tuxedo Park between 11 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. on April 16 and the  Watchtower Educational Center on Watchtower Drive in Patterson between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. on April 17.
      Officials urged anyone who was exposed and is suffering symptoms to contact a health care provider before seeking treatment in order to minimize exposure.
      Symptoms include a fever, rash, cough, conjunctivitis or runny nose. Symptoms usually appear 10 to 12 days after exposure but may appear as early as 7 days and as late as 21 days after exposure, the state said. 
      This most recent incident marks the fourth month in a row that European tourists with confirmed cases of measles have traveled through the tri-state area. Officials previously warned of one incident in Manhattan and two at Newark Liberty International Airport. 
      https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/NY-Jehovahs-Witness-Measles-Exposure-480467391.html
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      (New news ....)  A MONTANA Judge Orders Jehovah’s Witnesses to Turn Over Internal Documents Related to Childhood Sexual Abuse
      April 12, 2018
       
      On April 5, 2018, Judge James Manley of Sanders County, Montana ordered the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organization to produce documents and testimony related to internal reports and investigations into the childhood sexual abuse of NPR’s two clients.
       
      In this case, the two Plaintiffs were sexually abused as children by a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Elders in the local Jehovah’s Witness congregation in Thompson Falls, Montana were aware of the abuse and failed to report it to the police, choosing instead to handle the reports and investigations internally pursuant to Jehovah’s Witness guidelines. Their decision not to report the abuse to authorities allowed the perpetrator to remain in the congregation and continue to abuse one of the Plaintiffs.
       
      Throughout this case, and similar childhood sexual abuse cases across the country, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have refused to produce documents related to their internal handling of reports of sexual abuse and related investigations and disciplinary actions claiming that the information is protected by the clergy-penitent privilege and the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
       
      Through briefing to the court, NPR convinced the Judge that Defendants’ privilege claims were unsupported and improper under the law. The Court agreed that Defendants could not blanket everything related to their investigations in secrecy and that they must turn it over to the Plaintiffs. Often, this is the very evidence that can win or lose a case like this against a religious institution.
       
      The case of Nunez, et al. v. Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, et al.  is set to go to trial in September of 2018.
      The plaintiffs in this case are represented by NPR partner D. Neil Smith and associate Ross E. Leonoudakis.
       
      ----------------------------------------------------------
      A Jury of 12 held in public view ... or a tribunal of three held in complete secrecy.
      Which would YOU choose,  to get Justice?
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      (CNN)Getting work emails from your boss when you're off the clock? There ought to be a law against that.
      Well, in New York City, there just might be.
      Rafael Espinal, a city council member from Brooklyn, introduced a bill last week that would make it illegal for businesses to contact employees via email or instant message when employees are off work.
      The "Disconnecting From Work" bill would only apply to businesses with 10 or more employees and forbid communication when workers are off duty, on vacation, using personal days or off sick.
      Read more: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/28/us/new-york-law-against-email-after-work-trnd/index.html
    • By Queen Esther
      World Headquarters of Jehovah Witnesses, Warwick NY.  ~~~~
      Different  GB  Brother's  and  many  JW  telling  us....    Enjoy !
    • By Witness
      “And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” Matt 8:20
      "Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,
      his upper rooms by injustice,
      making his own people work for nothing,
      not paying them for their labor.
      14 He says, ‘I will build myself a great palace
      with spacious upper rooms.Â’
      So he makes large windows in it,
      panels it with cedar
      and decorates it in red.
      15 “Does it make you a king
      to have more and more cedar?
      Did not your father have food and drink?
      He did what was right and just,
      so all went well with him.
      16 He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
      and so all went well.
      Is that not what it means to know me?”
      declares the Lord.
      17 “But your eyes and your heart
      are set only on dishonest gain,
      on shedding innocent blood
      and on oppression and extortion.” Jer 22:13-17
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      Current image of the newly opened Warwick World Central.

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Purchaser will turn 21 Clark St. into seniors housing called The Watermark at Brooklyn Heights
      By Lore Croghan
      Brooklyn Daily Eagle
      The Jehovah's Witnesses have sold one of the grand jewels of their real-estate portfolio for about $200 million.
      The Towers, a former Brooklyn Heights Historic District hotel where the Dodgers lived and presidents gave speeches, will now be turned into seniors housing by its purchaser.
      Built in the 1920s, the Leverich Towers Hotel, as it was originally known, has colonnaded towers on its four corners like a Venetian palazzo — a really big palazzo.
      The 16-story, 313,768-square-foot property at 21 Clark St. played host in its heyday to the highest-paid Brooklyn Dodgers.
      Only the stars of Brooklyn's since-departed baseball team were allowed to live in its splendid suites during baseball season. Other players lived elsewhere, including the Hotel Saint George in Brooklyn Heights.
      President Harry Truman spoke at The Towers.
      Advertisements called it “The Aristocrat of Brooklyn Hotels.” It was designed by Starrett & Van Vleck, the architecture firm that also designed Manhattan flagship stores for Saks Fifth Avenue and Lord & Taylor.
      Later, the Watchtower, which owned the Towers for four decades, used the Clark Street property as a residence and dining hall for more than 1,000 people who worked at its nearby world headquarters.

      Here's The Towers' grand staircase, which echoes the grandeur of its early days as a hotel.
      Kayne Anderson Real Estate Advisors is the purchaser
      The Jehovah's Witnesses put the former hotel, which has frontage on Willow and Pineapple streets, up for sale in May 2016.
      The purchaser, Kayne Anderson Real Estate Advisors, plans to transform The Towers into seniors housing and rename it The Watermark at Brooklyn Heights.
      “Meticulously maintained since its inception in the late 1920s, The Watermark at Brooklyn Heights epitomizes a Class A property with a unique redevelopment opportunity: To introduce modern, luxury living for seniors in Brooklyn and Manhattan,” Al Rabil, Kayne Anderson Real Estate Advisors' managing partner and CEO, said in a press release.
      The new owner is “committed to upholding the property's unique legacy,” Rabil said.
      The Boca Raton-based investment firm is the real-estate private equity arm of Kayne Anderson Capital Advisors L.P.
      Watermark Retirement Communities, a nationwide operator of seniors housing communities, is partnering with Kayne Anderson Real Estate Advisors on The Towers' redevelopment.
      The sale deed for the Towers has not yet appeared in city Finance Department records.
      But according to the Wall Street Journal — which was the first to report The Towers' sale — the price was about $200 million.

      The Watchtower paid $1,992,229.08 for The Towers in 1975, Finance Department records indicate.

       

      The Towers' rooftop terrace has views of the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan skyline.
      Watchtower property sell-off moves closer to finish line

      The sale of The Towers brings the Jehovah's Witnesses a big step closer to completing their years-long effort to liquidate their once-vast property portfolio in Brooklyn Heights and DUMBO.
      The sell-off was precipitated by their decision to move their world headquarters to the upstate New York town of Warwick.

      “For those of us who lived in Brooklyn Heights, we'll remember The Towers not just as a landmark building but as a beautiful and comfortable home,” Watchtower spokesman David Semonian said in a statement.
      “With this most recent transaction, we close another chapter of our history in Brooklyn,” he said.
      Other buyers of the religious organization's properties include the Kushner Cos., which spent about $1 billion with investor partners on Brooklyn Heights and DUMBO Watchtower purchases.
      The firm was headed by Jared Kushner until he stepped aside to serve as senior adviser to his father-in-law, President Donald Trump.  
      http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2017/11/1/jehovahs-witnesses-sell-towers-storied-brooklyn-heights-hotel
    • By ARchiv@L
      New virtual 3d tour made available from Google Maps, so that you can use to visit the New World Headquarters and enjoy your virtual Tour there ! .
      https://goo.gl/maps/wqNi3QKzEpT2
       
       
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      It was a great privilege to have known the Bethel World Central!!! with my husband. Sandra and Beto Sausalina!!! Breathes the love of Jehovah everywhere!!!
      ?❤️?❤️?
      Thank you


    • Guest Nicole
    • By Bible Speaks
      Watchtower volunteers restore a historic building free of charge.
      ?????
      Gardiner City Hall arranged by the watchtower volunteers
      The Historic City Hall of Gardiner has just received a change of face from the volunteers of the watchtower society. In a civic demonstration, the tax-exempt religious organization provided free labor to the city to wash, repair, bait and paint the entire exterior of the building.
      "they did an amazing job", said the mayor of the city, Marybeth Majestic, at the 8 August meeting.
      Built in 1875 as a single-room school and expanded in 1895, the Queen Anne style structure continued to serve on Gardiner as a primary school until 1981. was added to the national register of historic places in 2000 and He suffered a major renovation in 2005 the watchtower project repainted the old white window in a more historically authentic forest seen in ancient photographs
      Majestic noted that the city council remained open to the public during the normal hours of service during the project. "his security measures were max", he said. She estimated that Gardiner's town hall would have had to pay about $ 40.000 for the job if the workforce had not been donated. About $ 6000 in the cost of materials were covered by a dedicated fund that the city had booked several years ago for maintenance and repairs to the city council.
      " I'm very grateful to our friends and neighbors of watchtower for an amazing job done."
      https://hudsonvalleyone.com/2017/08/19/gardiner-town-hall-spruced-up-by-watchtower-volunteers/
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Kushner Companies, CIM Group and LIVWRK plan to turn building into office complex

      The iconic Watchtower sign, a glowing fixture over Brooklyn Heights, will soon disappear from the skyline.
      Earlier this month, the Jehovah’s Witnesses filed a permit application seeking to remove the 15-foot-tall letters from the roof of the organization’s now-former headquarters. The request comes nearly a year after developers Kushner Companies, CIM Group and LIVWRK Holdings purchased the building at 25-30 Columbia Heights for $340 million.
      Removal of the letters will cost an estimated $70,500, according to documents filed with the city’s Department of Buildings. The sign’s framework will remain in place, according to the application filed June 9.
      The developers — who collectively go by Columbia Heights Associates — declined to comment. Representatives for the Jehovah’s Witnesses didn’t return messages seeking additional information on the sign’s future.
      The sign has hovered over Brooklyn Heights for nearly 50 years. The religious organization purchased the building in 1969 from pharmaceutical giant E.R. Squibb & Sons. At the time, Squibb had its own sign on the roof.
      According to the Witnesses’ website, the sign’s red neon lights were swapped for LEDs in 2009 — saving the organization some $4,000 in annual maintenance costs.
      The departure of what many have described as a Brooklyn landmark is not necessarily a surprise. When the new owners unveiled plans in May to convert the building into a 635,000-square-foot office complex — dubbed “Panorama” — renderings show some sort of sign but not the iconic letters. At the time, the Brooklyn Eagle speculated that one of the building’s new tenants would secure the rights to put their own sign in the old one’s place.
      In a video posted on the religious group’s website, Vernon Wisegarver, one of the group’s leaders, hinted that the sign’s time with the building was limited: “As for its future, it will probably remain with that building as long as we remain with that building.”
      https://therealdeal.com/2017/06/26/end-is-nigh-for-watchtower-sign-iconic-placard-to-come-down-after-340m-sale/
    • Guest
      By Guest
      Shared by @craigcarsonea
    • Guest
      By Guest
      Shared by @levi_011
    • By The Librarian
      The Witnesses hosted the first of two open-house receptions to thank local residents and others who supported the construction of their recently built headquarters facility.
      Source
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES ARE CONDUCTING A SERIES OF OPEN HOUSES AT THEIR NEW HEADQUARTERS OUTSIDE NEW YORK CITY. The Jehovah's Witness denomination is among the most popular churches in the world. With over eight million members spread out over 80 countries, the group has a mission of perpetuating the Scriptures. Last year the Jehovah's Witness group decided to move their world headquarters from the Brooklyn region of New York to the Tuxedo-Warwick suburbs owing to their need for expansion and a more favorable religious location to house the 800 staff who work for the church.

      The Jehovah’s Witnesses recently completed the construction of their headquarters. The buildings overlooking the blue sea of the Sterling Forest State Park are all state-of-the-art and eco-friendly, and the church wanted to showcase this to the community. Owing to that, the church set aside two Saturdays, April 22 and April 29, to show their appreciation to the community that has received the church warmly ever since construction began. “We wanted to thank the non-Witness locals and other parties for the warm support they have shown us since we moved to Warwick," Troy Snyder, facilities manager for the headquarters complex, said. Members of the surrounding communities received invitations to the open house held April 22. 395 invitees showed up to the open house, 205 being local residents and 190 being vendors and contractors who had collaborated with the church on the construction project. The Saturday open houses are particularly special because tours are normally only offered Monday through Friday. The attendees were all first treated to some light refreshments by the Jehovah’s Witness members. After that, the visitors were taken around the facility in a tour that lasted about forty minutes. Residents of the Tuxedo-Warwick area expressed their appreciation of the vision put into the building’s designs, saying it was of high quality. Furthermore, any fears that the local population had had concerning the effect on the construction of the headquarters were allayed. Some attendees attested that the building had been integrated into the environment of the area to the extent that even the effect on local wildlife was taken into account and reflected in the design. The tour included a video presentation and a session for making inquiries as well. The most interesting part of the open house was perhaps the three exhibits the headquarters houses. Guests were allowed to walk themselves through the exhibits for an hour each. The first of the exhibits was titled Bible and the Divine Name. It held rare Bible translations, Bible editions as well as unique Bible-related artifacts. The aim of the exhibition was to display how God’s “Jehovah” name was preserved. Exhibit two, A People for Jehovah’s Name, employed visual aids such as graphics, artifacts and personal testimonies to relay the history of the Jehovah’s Witness church. The last display was called the World Headquarters-Faith in Action exhibit, and it detailed the role of the Jehovah's Witness Governing Body in the promotion of scripture, faith, and love. Any non-Witness locals who did not attend last week’s event are invited by the church to do so this coming Saturday. For those unable to attend April 29, public tours of the facility are offered Monday through Friday.



      Read more at World Religion News: "New Jehovah’s Witness Headquarters Hosts First Open Houses" http://www.worldreligionnews.com/?p=37258
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    • Wouldn't a core doctrine be one in which we put "unwavering" faith. This is the whole reason I mention "core" or "key" doctrines. If we were to be killed unless we publicly renounced our faith in Jehovah God as the Creator, and Jesus Christ as the one through whom the Ransom comes, we should be willing to die for that doctrine. I would not be willing to die over my certainty that Jesus was only using hyperbole when he said that the men of Sodom would do better in a resurrection of the unrighteous on Judgment Day, than persons in towns that rejected Jesus during his earthly ministry. (Only the most diabolical of inquisitors would ask such a question anyway. I think I would go for "theocratic war strategy. 😉 )
    • I like that. It's an excellent explanation of one of the points made in the day's text and commentary. Perhaps. And so were all the 1 year old babies destroyed in the Flood. And so were the 185,000 of Senacherib's troops. I used that one because it's one for which most of us would be the least surprised if we discovered that the WT changed the teaching again.  Not sure what you mean. I already believe that the primary core doctrine is God's value through his Son's ransom sacrifice. Other doctrines are also just as necessary, though.  There actually is a contradiction between the Bible and AD 1914. And we don't need any independent understanding not supported by Scripture, such as the independent understanding of John Aquila Brown, or more specifically, that of Nelson H Barbour, neither of which were supported by Scripture. It should ALWAYS be the exploit of any faithful Witness to uncover truth and try to resolve any contradictions that can be resolved by Scripture itself, not anything independent of Scriptural support.  On the matter of the 1914 doctrine, an easier explanation with human controversy --but no scriptural controversy-- has already been posted. Easier isn't proof that it's better, but it's definitely easier. Here it is: Jesus came to earth to preach about a God's Kingdom through Christ and give himself over to death as a perfect ransom for sin, to fulfill the Law, and SIT AT GOD'S RIGHT HAND and therefore RULES AS KING since the time of his resurrection in 33 CE. That's it. Simple. No contradictions with any Scripture. From that point on, in 33 CE he SITS AT GOD'S RIGHT HAND and therefore RULES AS KING ruling in the midst of enemies, including war, famine, sickness, and will continue ruling as king until God has put all enemies under his feet, including the last enemy: death.  The current belief in 1914 creates a contradiction with this very point, because we are currently forced to ignore 1 Cor 15:25, which indicates that "sitting at God's right hand" is the same as "ruling as King." Right now, our current teaching is that Jesus sat at God's right hand in 33, and THEN LATER began ruling as king in 1914. Paul says that Jesus began ruling as king WHEN he sat at God's right hand. I'm swapping them because they mean exactly the same thing to me. No difference. Doctrine means teaching. True but notice the words that Paul used instead of "sit at my right hand" here: (1 Corinthians 15:25) 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. Turns out that when a king sits on a throne, this is actually an expression meaning rule as king. Just like when we say that a man "sat on the throne" starting in AD 1066, for example. Turns out that a king does not have to stand up from a throne to begin ruling as king. Turns out that sitting on a throne is not a synonym for just waiting around. By that logic, Jesus is not even NOW ruling as king, because God has not yet put the last enemy Death beneath his feet. (1 Corinthians 15:25,26) 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.
    • If only you would stop quoting outside sources, and just be more basic with your comments, then i may understand them . Yes I understand 'if your throw out all the good, only the bad is left.  But the reverse is, if you only see the good, you are not being honest with yourself or others.  @Arauna is a case in point.  
    • @JW Insider Quote " The day's text is about the resurrection, and the commentary speaks of the importance of including this among our key doctrines, as if it might not have been "up there" with the rest. " That seems rather strange to me. But then they are getting short of things to say.  However, i would have thought every Christian, no matter what ever 'sect' or  pigeon hole you put them in, would definitely believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and put it up near the top of important beliefs.  However making Bible Facts, doctrines, seems unfair to God and to the Bible itself.  doctrine a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.   It's as if the JW Org tries to 'own' such things. @TrueTomHarley quite often goes on about the things that the JW Org teaches. As if those things 'belonged to the JW Org'.  Whereas a lot of the same beliefs are held by thousands of people, and they not all being of the same organisation.     Quote " The Teaching about Christ's Kingdom -  Of course that final one might be a nod to "1914" as a key teaching, but it is worded here in such a way that no one could dismiss Christ's Kingdom as a key teaching. "   Now here we see a difference between Bible truth and JW doctrine.    Christ's Kingdom is Bible truth.   1914 is JW Org doctrine.   (This would bring us back to. Would a person be d/fed or 'watched' if they did not believe the 1914 doctrine?)    Matthew 22 v 44    ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’? So if Jesus was to sit at Gods right hand, until God had put Jesus' enemies beneath Jesus' feet.  Then Jesus could not have had the power to do it himself. Therefore surely Jesus was not ruling as King immediately ?    As for 1914, we know that no one of the Bible Students or JW leaders, were or are inspired of Holy Spirit. So maybe 1914 is just another guess or misuse of scriptures.    What is your view of the difference between 'Core doctrines' and Key teachings ?    And you seem to keep swapping expressions from Core doctrines, to Core teachings, to Key teachings.  Can you explain the difference please ?    
    • I confess that I am falling well short of the 100 times a day that I ought. I ask your forgiveness. Human limitations is the only excuse I have to offer. If you negate the upside, then all there is left to look at is the downside, and that is the case with many here.  I keep coming back to a line from The Scarlet Letter: “It is remarkable, that persons who speculate the most boldly often conform with the most perfect quietude to the external regulations of society.” Nobody speculates more boldly, departing from the herd-like thinking of this world, than Jehovah’s Witnesses. True to that Hawthorn line, they have no difficulty conforming to the “external regulations of their society.” Though Hawthorn does not say it, the reverse is also true. Those who cannot “conform to the external regulations of that society” and so leave it, perhaps guys like Shiwiiiii, are the most non-bold thinkers of all. They are individualistic in superfluous ways, but conformist in all the ways that matter.
    • Perhaps you are reading something into the book of Jude that I haven't been able to see. To me, the reason for the letter was this: Jude 4 I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. This was similar to the problem in Corinth, where certain brothers were PROUD that they could put up with a notorious case of incest, due to a misunderstanding and misuse of "undeserved kindness." (1 Corinthians 5:1, 2) . . .Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations—of a man living with his father’s wife. 2 And are you proud of it? Should you not rather mourn, so that the man who committed this deed should be taken away from your midst? Such persons who used the idea of forgiveness, mercy, and undeserved kindness (grace), as an excuse for loose/brazen conduct were not blowing the whistle on wrongdoing, but were PROMOTING wrongdoing. It was the same as dismissing and speaking abusively against things that Jesus himself had said to "prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ." Michael wouldn't even speak abusively of the Devil and yet these people are going to go further than that and think it's OK to speak abusively of Jesus and the angels? It's also possible that the leaders (elders) are considered the "glorious ones" but this makes less sense to me. Perhaps a topic for further discussion?
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