Early Christians Believed in the Trinity

[bruceq]

  We will not fight anymore than we will at Armageddon - it is God's War.

  It is true that Trinitarians have killed other Trinitarians during warfare over the Centuries of time.  As is true of many followers of false gods. The true God is a God of love and his followers would "love one another" not kill one another as Satan's Children do and as Catholics and Protestants have done showing they worship a false god. John 13:34,35.

[HollyW]

On 5/9/2017 at 10:27 AM, bruceq said:

For answers to any questions please see JW.ORG.

I did not see the answer as to Who's side was the Trinity God on? 

The winning side, of course.  During WWI whose side did your church pray for?

"In accordance with the resolution of Congress of April 2nd, and with the proclamation of the president of the United States of May 11, it is suggested that the Lord's people everywhere make May 30th a day of prayer and supplication. ... As says the spirit through the Apostle Paul: "I exhort, therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour." (I Timothy 2:1-3) Let there be praise and thanks-giving to God for the promised glorious outcome of the war, the breaking of the shackles of autocracy, the freeing of the captives (Isaiah 61:1) and the making of the world safe for the common people--blessings all assured by the Word of God to the people of this country and of the whole world of mankind." Watchtower 1918 Jun 1 p.174

[bruceq]

 Which side was the Trinity on if the followers of the Trinity were on BOTH the losing and winning side LOL I suppose one part of your false god was on the winning side and one part was on the losing side. So which part lost ? The Father, Son or Holy Spirit?   So I guess the third part of your Trinity was a referee???

[bruceq]

This reminds me of a squirrel trying to cross a road.

[bruceq]

 So which part of the Trinity lost the war ? The Father, Son or Holy Spirit?  Still waiting for an answer. LOL 

[HollyW]

If our minds cannot fully comprehend something, is that a sound reason for rejecting it?  No, of course not, there are many things that seem a mystery at times to us.  For instance, how about Time?  We don't reject the idea of time because there are aspects of it that we do not fully comprehend.  Or maybe Space. There seems to be no end to it but we don't reject the idea of space.

So, too, with the Trinity.  Just because you don't fully comprehend that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate persons who are the only true God, that is not a sound reason for rejecting.

Consider the opening words of the Bible: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.  Do JWs consider God in this verse to be only the Father?  No, of course not, because they believe the Father created the heavens and the earth through the Son and by the Holy Spirit.  IOW "God created the heavens an the earth."

In Genesis 1:26 God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..."  JWs view God in this verse to be the Father, and he is speaking to the Son, and "our" refers to both the Father and the Son.  So does "God" in verse 27 "God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him"....Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all referred to as God.
 

[bruceq]

I agree that Catholics and Protestants do not know God and He is a mystery to them. That is why they are a false religion for Jesus said:

"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews." John 4:22; 17:3.

And Jesus as well as all the Bible writers were JEWS and they know God is not a Trinity as JESUS said. Jesus TRUE followers therefore would believe as HE DOES in GOD. Not as a three in one but as only ONE GOD for Jesus and the Bible writers were Jews. Deut. 4:4

[Shiwiii]

2 hours ago, HollyW said:

The winning side, of course.  During WWI whose side did your church pray for?

"In accordance with the resolution of Congress of April 2nd, and with the proclamation of the president of the United States of May 11, it is suggested that the Lord's people everywhere make May 30th a day of prayer and supplication. ... As says the spirit through the Apostle Paul: "I exhort, therefore, that first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour." (I Timothy 2:1-3) Let there be praise and thanks-giving to God for the promised glorious outcome of the war, the breaking of the shackles of autocracy, the freeing of the captives (Isaiah 61:1) and the making of the world safe for the common people--blessings all assured by the Word of God to the people of this country and of the whole world of mankind." Watchtower 1918 Jun 1 p.174

So I have a question HollyW, does this quote from the watchtower reveal that the watchtower itself aligned with the US during the war? I thought they had nothing to do with war? Can anyone else reconcile this? I mean the expression below indicates that they did and approved of the outcome based upon their understanding of the Bible and God:

"Let there be praise and thanks-giving to God for the promised glorious outcome of the war, the breaking of the shackles of autocracy, the freeing of the captives (Isaiah 61:1) and the making of the world safe for the common people--blessings all assured by the Word of God to the people of this country and of the whole world of mankind."

2 hours ago, bruceq said:

 

 Which side was the Trinity on if the followers of the Trinity were on BOTH the losing and winning side LOL

 

Which side was YOUR God on? We see in the quote from HollyW that they supported the US in the war, but there is also a letter written to Hitler aligning themselves with him? 

[bruceq]

  A letter is quite different than killing someone because you think God is on your side. duh  If you would like to start another thread on another topic you may do so. But on the topic of the Trinity could someone please prove from the Bible that God is a Trinity???  I realize of course when someone cannot prove something they resort to changing the subject or making things up that are not the subject under consideration but why can't you Trinitarians just stay on topic and prove that God is a Trinity?  Can't you prove the very FOUNDATION AND CENTRAL DOCTRINE of your belief in God, it should not be that difficult???

"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews." John 4:22; 17:3.

 And on the off topic section:

Which side was the Trinity on if the followers of the Trinity were on BOTH the losing and winning side LOL I suppose one part of your false god was on the winning side and one part was on the losing side. So which part lost ? The Father, Son or Holy Spirit?   So I guess the third part of your Trinity was a referee???

So which part of the Trinity lost the war ? The Father, Son or Holy Spirit?  Still waiting for an answer . LOL 

 

[HollyW]

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So I have a question HollyW, does this quote from the watchtower reveal that the watchtower itself aligned with the US during the war? I thought they had nothing to do with war? Can anyone else reconcile this? I mean the expression below indicates that they did and approved of the outcome based upon their understanding of the Bible and God:

"Let there be praise and thanks-giving to God for the promised glorious outcome of the war, the breaking of the shackles of autocracy, the freeing of the captives (Isaiah 61:1) and the making of the world safe for the common people--blessings all assured by the Word of God to the people of this country and of the whole world of mankind."

Which side was YOUR God on? We see in the quote from HollyW that they supported the US in the war, but there is also a letter written to Hitler aligning themselves with him? 

The letter to Hitler would have been WW2.  The quote I posted is WW1 and they do single out the USA where they say "to the people of this country", and though that's followed by "and of the whole world of mankind", they didn't mention another specific country.  But if their prayers were for countries that didn't win the war, one might wonder what country would that be.

[Ann O'Maly]

18 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

I thought they had nothing to do with war?

Just a quick FYI and for your additional research due to it being off topic.

Bible Students also bought Liberty Bonds from the government during WWI and Watchtower officially approved of it, although it emphasized it was a conscience matter for individual BSs. This position contributed to the 'Stand Fasts' splinter group being formed 

Sources:

https://ia601406.us.archive.org/23/items/WatchtowerLibrary/magazines/w/w1918_E.pdf - See May 15, p. 152-153 [R6257] and June 1, top of p. 168-169 [R6268].

Prior view of breaking neutrality:

w64 2/1 p. 80 par. 8 The Comely Feet of the Messengers 
"Because of not then properly understanding a Christian’s strict neutrality toward political conflicts of earth and not understanding the matter of relative subjection to the earthly “higher powers,” the remnant was brought into bondage to Great Babylon."

Present view (links with @HollyW's earlier WT quote):

w16 November pp. 26-30

"Not everything the Bible Students did during the period between 1914 and 1919 was in harmony with Scriptural principles. Although they were sincere, the brothers did not always have a proper view of subjection to the secular governments. (Rom. 13:1) Therefore, as a group, they were not always neutral with regard to the war effort. For example, when the president of the United States decreed that May 30, 1918, would be set aside as a day of prayer for peace, The Watch Tower urged the Bible Students to join in the observance. Some brothers purchased bonds to provide financial assistance to the war effort, and a few even went into the trenches with guns and bayonets. However, it would be a mistake to conclude that the Bible Students were first taken into captivity to Babylon the Great because they needed correction and discipline. On the contrary, they understood their obligation to separate themselves from false religion, and during World War I, the break with that world empire was almost complete. - Read Luke 12:47, 48." - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016844

 

[Ann O'Maly]

On 6/9/2017 at 0:19 PM, HollyW said:

did you know the WTS has expressed the view that if you read just the Bible, without any WTS publications, you will believe in the Trinity?

I know they alluded to it. Your quote brings that out very well. I'd forgotten that one. Good to see you here again