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Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe in Jesus? Yes!

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"But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.
    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!

"Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”

    Hello guest!
20:28)

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According to the Jehovah's Witnesses only the "anointed" go to the Father through Jesus, the rest of the "great crowd" go through the anointed then Jesus then the Father so John 14:6 doesn't apply to you.  You pray personally to the Father through Jesus which is good but according to the doctrine you do not have a direct connection to Jesus and his Father.  Only the anointed do which is not based on scripture.

There are no anointed and non-anointed classes in scripture.  Christ means anointed and Jesus said there would be many Christ's(anointed plural).

Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and they will provide great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).

The Bible has been provided for people to know God's requirements. Has the Watchtower enlightened people beyond the words of Jesus? Is it not more accurate to say that what the Watchtower has said beyond that contained in the Bible has regularly been wrong and later changed? Information such as:

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    and dangerous decrees such as that vaccinations and transplants are unchristian
  • The changing
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By going beyond the guidelines given in the Scriptures on

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, have not the Slave created a practice that has had a destructive effect on the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, dividing families for decades?

When a group of men claim special guidance from God as his sole representatives, they risk controlling people without justification, leading to disastrous results for the followers. Christians do well to keep in mind Bible warnings about following humans, and remember who their head really is.

"Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." Psalms 146:3
"But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God." 1 Corinthians 11:3

 

 

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7 hours ago, Bible Speaks said:

    Hello guest!
"But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.
    Hello guest!
 
    Hello guest!

Yes the "Holy Spirit" not a "Spirit Directed Organization."

The word "Organization" does not appear in the Bible.

"Organization" and "Governing Body" are corporate titles.

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You will notice you are not getting much response to your post. Be assured that it's not that you have made such a compelling argument that nobody can refute you. Rather, because of so much erroneous and dated information, it's more of a matter of "Where do I begin?" 

11 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

 

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses only the "anointed" go to the Father through Jesus, the rest of the "great crowd" go through the anointed then Jesus then the Father so John 14:6 doesn't apply to you.  You pray personally to the Father through Jesus which is good but according to the doctrine you do not have a direct connection to Jesus and his Father.  Only the anointed do which is not based on scripture.

 

You may be confusing our understanding with respect to approach to God in general and Jesus' role as the mediator of the new covenant in behalf of anointed Christians. For a more current explanation you may want to read: w95 6/1 pg. 30 "Questions from readers" - although more current information is available according to which aspect of the arrangement of prayer you want to consider. 

You have also included references that go back as far as the 1800's - most of which isn't part of our beliefs now. As you likely already know, JW's view our understanding of the Bible as one that is not static, but changing according to "increased light." You may choose to disagree with that, but never-the-less, it is what we believe. Therefore, although information you have referred to may validly show that we have changed our view on certain things, it does not follow to assume we do not have the truth because of said changes. In fact, to many, it confirms we have the truth (or at least are on the right track, with the assumption there may be further revisions ahead). A simple unbiased view of the God's dealings and release of information in the Bible record from Gen. 3:15 onward shows a progressive, ongoing revelation or release of information of God's will to mankind. We're cool with that.

12 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

The word "Organization" does not appear in the Bible.

"Organization" and "Governing Body" are corporate titles.

And your point is...? Does "trinity" appear in the Bible? According to what appears to be your reasoning, since the word is not in the Bible, you should not believe in the Trinity. The absence of a word or expression cannot be used as a blanket assertion to confirm/deny it's validity. It may or may not - to be both honest and fair, more would need to be considered. 

 

12 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

When a group of men claim special guidance from God as his sole representatives, they risk controlling people without justification, leading to disastrous results for the followers. Christians do well to keep in mind Bible warnings about following humans, and remember who their head really is.

It is nothing new in the Bible that God has had representatives who "claim special guidance" from him. Moses, Aaron, the Levitical priesthood, angels, Bible writers themselves, Jesus Christ, Governing Body, Faithful and Discreet Slave... And logically, what is the alternative? In our ministry, talking to literally hundreds or thousands of individuals, we come across people who feel they don't need something like a "governing body." They feel holy spirit teaches them. But if you talk to as many people as we do, you will find that if you ask a hundred different people who claim to understand God's Word because holy spirit teaches them, you will get a hundred different answers if you cover enough material. Sure, they may all believe in the "trinity," but ask them what a prophetic passage means and you will get answers all over the map. There is a reason, there are tens of thousands of Christian religions alone, all claiming guidance by holy spirit, but is beyond the scope of this response do a comparative study of them. It is true in any organization historically, even among Jehovah's chosen people at the time, the Israelites, that men in authority have made bad decisions without justification with bad results. The same is true with imperfect individuals today. Some have acted in good faith but imperfectly and some others have acted wickedly. That doesn't change what OUR relationship with God should be. 

12 hours ago, Micah Ong said:
"Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." Psalms 146:3
"But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God." 1 Corinthians 11:3

We sincerely believe that, although at times, some of our number may seem to lose sight of it. 

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10 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

It is nothing new in the Bible that God has had representatives who "claim special guidance" from him. Moses, Aaron, the Levitical priesthood, angels, Bible writers themselves, Jesus Christ, Governing Body, Faithful and Discreet Slave... And logically, what is the alternative?

The representatives of God were intercessors to God in the old covenant, Jesus was to be the intercessor to God for everyone in the new covenant.

The Jehovah's Witness Doctrine teaches that only the anointed have a covenanted relationship with Jesus.  Therefore the New Testament only speaks to the anointed.  The great crowd have to go through the anointed to benefit from the new covenant.  Hence now you go back to the old covenant in having man or a group of men as the mediator to God.

The Bible states that Jesus is our mediator, and his ransom is for all.

"… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." 1 Timothy 2:5,6

The Watchtower states:

To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 Nov 15 p.27

So in essence you have to be attached with the anointed class to have Jesus as your mediator and benefit from Jesus Salvation.

The scriptures teach otherwise:

Romans 3:21-30 "But now apart from law God's righteousness has been made manifest, as it is borne witness to by the Law and the Prophets; 22 yes, God's righteousness through the faith in Jesus Christ, for all those having faith. For there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus. ... 29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of people of the nations? Yes, of people of the nations also "

Romans 6:23 "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."

Hebrews 7:25 "Consequently he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them."

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17 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

JW's view our understanding of the Bible as one that is not static, but changing according to "increased light.

Old Light

New Light

"Millions Now Living Will Never Die" Rutherford, 1920.

"You can survive the end of this system of things" Watchtower 6/15/89, p7

"Millions Now Dead Will Live Again" Watchtower, May l, 1990

Never Die

will DIE & live again!

 

Examples
Old light
Original prophecy
New light
More specific prophecy
(Adds to old light)
Black light
Failed prophecy
(contradicts old light)
We will give an answer the answer is yes the answer is now no!
It will be a colour It will be blue We were wrong about blue, it will now be red
It will rain It will rain today We were wrong about today, it will rain tomorrow
Armegaddon is in the Bible Armageddon in 1925 & 1975 We were wrong when we said 1975 & 1925

Will the men of Sodom be resurrected?

Yes

Watchtower 7/18/79 p. 8

No

Watchtower 6/1/52 p. 338

Yes

Watchtower78/1/65 p. 47g

No

Watchtower7 6/1/88 p. 31

Yes

Live Forever (old ed. ) p. 179

No

Live Foreverr (new ed. ) p. 179

Yes

Insight, vol. 2, p. 985

No

Revelation. book, p. 273

The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.  Wt Feb Study E 2017 Who is Leading God's People? par 12

Moses, prophets and others were directed by Jehovah personally with direct inspiration.  Jehovah's direction was never wrong through the prophets.  They made mistakes of course because of there imperfections but when God spoke prophecy or direction through them they were fulfilled or took place.  Any flip flops in understanding belongs to man and not to "new light."

When an organisation claims to be God's only true representatives, it cannot afford to be wrong once, especially in prophecy! 

I thought Jesus was meant to of been head of the organization since 1919!

1922 '1914 ended the Gentile Times...The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures...by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed' (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262)

1923 '1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures...the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge' (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106)

1924 "Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1924, p5)

1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)

So Jesus as head of the congregation was leading in a false manner.  False light to be then adjusted later on to true understanding.

Human wisdom is fallacious but Jesus and God's Holy spirit are not. (see below)

1989 They have a modern Governing Body of older Christian men from various parts of the earth who give needed oversight to the worldwide activities of God's people. these men, like the apostles and older men in Jerusalem in the first century, are anointed members of the faithful and discreet slave class designated by Jesus to care for all of his Kingdom interests here upon earth. History has proved that they can be trusted to follow the direction of the holy spirit and that they do not rely on human wisdom in teaching the flock of God the ways of genuine peace. (The Watchtower; Dec. 15, 1989; p. 6)

Failed prophecy of the generation that will not pass away - Human wisdom and interpretation not directed by God. (see below)

1992 "Today, a small percentage of mankind can still recall the dramatic events of 1914. Will that elderly generation pass away before God saves the earth from ruin? Not according to Bible prophecy. 'When you see all these things,' Jesus PROMISED, 'know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that THIS generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' - Matthew 24:33, 34." (Watchtower May 1, 1992 page 3: The Year That Shocked The World)

Jehovah's Witnesses say they have new light. But the old light is not light, it is failed prophecy and interpretation.  So the "increased light" e.g 'the generation that saw the generation that saw the events of 1914, would not pass away,' has it's basis on faulty light to begin with.  Would Jesus and the Holy Spirit be responsible for that?

Deuteronomy 18:22  When a prophet speaks in the name of JEHOVAH and the thing does not happen or come true, that is the thing which Jehovah has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

 

Revelation 22:18  I testify and warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book [its predictions, consolations, and admonitions]: if anyone adds [anything] to them, God will add to him the plagues (afflictions, calamities) which are written in this book;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

The representatives of God were intercessors to God in the old covenant, Jesus was to be the intercessor to God for everyone in the new covenant.

The Jehovah's Witness Doctrine teaches that only the anointed have a covenanted relationship with Jesus.  Therefore the New Testament only speaks to the anointed.  The great crowd have to go through the anointed to benefit from the new covenant.  Hence now you go back to the old covenant in having man or a group of men as the mediator to God.

The Bible states that Jesus is our mediator, and his ransom is for all.

"… one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." 1 Timothy 2:5,6

The Watchtower states:

To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 Nov 15 p.27

So in essence you have to be attached with the anointed class to have Jesus as your mediator and benefit from Jesus Salvation.

The scriptures teach otherwise:

Romans 3:21-30 "But now apart from law God's righteousness has been made manifest, as it is borne witness to by the Law and the Prophets; 22 yes, God's righteousness through the faith in Jesus Christ, for all those having faith. For there is no distinction. 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus. ... 29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of people of the nations? Yes, of people of the nations also "

Romans 6:23 "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."

Hebrews 7:25 "Consequently he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them."

You said: "The Jehovah's Witness Doctrine teaches that only the anointed have a covenanted relationship with Jesus.  Therefore the New Testament only speaks to the anointed.  The great crowd have to go through the anointed to benefit from the new covenant."

Here is a more accurate explanation of our understanding with reference to that:

BENEFICIARIES OF THE NEW COVENANT
14 Upon learning that the 144,000 are in the new covenant, some may have thought that only these benefit from it. Perhaps they thought so because only anointed ones are to partake of the emblems at the annual Memorial of Christ’s death, where the wine represents the “blood of the covenant.” (Mark 14:24) Recall, though, that those in the new covenant are to be associates with Jesus as the “seed” of Abraham, by means of which all nations will be blessed. (Gal. 3:8, 9, 29; Gen. 12:3) Somehow, through the new covenant, Jehovah will fulfill his promise to bless all mankind through Abraham’s “seed.”
15 Jesus Christ, the primary part of the seed of Abraham, serves as High Priest, and he provided the perfect sacrifice that makes possible forgiveness of error and sin. (Read Hebrews 2:17, 18.) Yet, God long ago pointed forward to “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Ex. 19:6) In natural Israel the priests were from one tribe, and the kings were from a different tribe. So how would this promised nation of king-priests come about? The apostle Peter directed his first letter to ones who were sanctified by the spirit. (1 Pet. 1:1, 2) He referred to such ones as “a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.” (1 Pet. 2:9) Anointed Christians in the new covenant will thus serve as underpriests. Think of what that means! We daily struggle under the influence of sin, which still ‘rules as king.’ Those serving as underpriests will have had a similar experience. (Rom. 5:21) They will be aware of how it feels to make mistakes and grapple with guilt. So along with Christ, they will be able to sympathize with us as we overcome sinful tendencies.
16 At Revelation 7:9, 14, the “great crowd” are seen “dressed in white robes,” which implies a clean standing with God. To be in line to survive “the great tribulation,” that great crowd is now being formed. Hence, even now these gain a certain righteous standing before God. They are being declared righteous as Jehovah’s friends. (Rom. 4:2, 3; Jas. 2:23) What a benefit that is! If you are part of the great crowd, you can be sure that God is willing to work with you as you strive to remain clean in his eyes.
17 What happens to the sins of those whom God favors? As noted earlier, Jehovah said through Jeremiah: “I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.” (Jer. 31:34) God does this for the anointed on the basis of Jesus’ sacrifice. In a similar way, God can forgive the sins of the great crowd on the basis of the same “blood of the covenant.” Jeremiah’s saying that God would “remember” sins no more does not imply that He would have a memory lapse and simply not be able to recall the sins. Rather, it indicates that once Jehovah has administered any needed discipline and forgiven a repentant sinner, God throws that past sin behind Him. Think of the sins King David committed involving Bath-sheba and Uriah. David received discipline and felt the consequences of his sins. (2 Sam. 11:4, 15, 27; 12:9-14; Isa. 38:17) Yet, God did not keep holding David accountable for those sins. (Read 2 Chronicles 7:17, 18.) As indicated in the new covenant, once Jehovah has forgiven sins, based on Jesus’ sacrifice, He remembers them no more.—Ezek. 18:21, 22.
18 Accordingly, the new covenant highlights a wonderful aspect of Jehovah’s dealings with sinful humans, both the anointed, who are in the covenant, and those with an earthly hope. You can trust that once Jehovah has dealt with your sins, he will not bring them up again.
 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

At Revelation 7:9, 14, the “great crowd” are seen “dressed in white robes,” which implies a clean standing with God.

A strong indication that the Great Crowd are in heaven is that when Revelation 7:15 states that the Great Crowd are "in his temple" it uses the Greek word naos. Naos refers to the inner temple or temple sanctuary. General worshippers were only allowed in the outer courtyard; hieron. The Great Crowd are not on earth, they are in naos, the centre of the temple, the temple sanctuary; that is, they are in heaven itself with the 144,000.

The Watchtower Society understands this distinction between naosnaos and hieron. In the Watchtower 1960 Aug 15 p.493 it explained;

"The fact is that this temple was not just one building but a series of structures of which the temple sanctuary was the center. In the original tongue this is made quite clear, the Scripture writers distinguishing between the two by the use of the words hieron and naos. Hieron referred to the entire temple grounds, whereas naos applied to the temple structure itself, the successor of the tabernacle in the wilderness. Thus John tells that Jesus found all this traffic in the hieron."

To say that the New Testament was written principally for the 144,000 and key Christian concepts are only applicable to this small number of people is untenable. It means we are to view the many millions of people that died for their Christian beliefs over the last 2000 years as false Christians.

The doctrine of a secondary class is inaccurate and alienates the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses from Jesus. It removes the average Jehovah's Witness from much of the wonder of being a Christian, a relationship with Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit and is reminiscent of words Jesus spoke to the Pharisees;

Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

 

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1 hour ago, Micah Ong said:

In the Watchtower 1960 Aug 15 p.493 it explained;

The quote you have chosen to support your argument is from an article that is almost 60 years old. I find it hard to believe that you are not aware of more recent articles. Here goes:

Questions From Readers
When John saw the “great crowd” rendering sacred service in Jehovah’s temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?—Revelation 7:9-15.
It is reasonable to say that the great crowd worships Jehovah in one of the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple, specifically the one that corresponds with the outer courtyard of Solomon’s temple.
In times past, it has been said that the great crowd is in a spiritual equivalent, or an antitype, of the Court of the Gentiles that existed in Jesus’ day. However, further research has revealed at least five reasons why that is not so. First, not all features of Herod’s temple have an antitype in Jehovah’s great spiritual temple. For example, Herod’s temple had a Court of the Women and a Court of Israel. Both men and women could enter the Court of the Women, but only men were allowed into the Court of Israel. In the earthly courtyards of Jehovah’s great spiritual temple, men and women are not separated in their worship. (Galatians 3:28, 29) Hence, there is no equivalent of the Court of the Women and the Court of Israel in the spiritual temple.
Second, there was no Court of the Gentiles in the divinely provided architectural plans of Solomon’s temple or Ezekiel’s visionary temple; nor was there one in the temple rebuilt by Zerubbabel. Hence, there is no reason to suggest that a Court of the Gentiles needs to play a part in Jehovah’s great spiritual temple arrangement for worship, especially when the following point is considered.
Third, the Court of the Gentiles was built by the Edomite King Herod to glorify himself and to curry favor with Rome. Herod set about renovating Zerubbabel’s temple perhaps in 18 or 17 B.C.E. The Anchor Bible Dictionary explains: “The classical tastes of the imperial power to the West [Rome] . . . mandated a temple larger than those of comparable eastern cities.” However, the dimensions of the temple proper were already established. The dictionary explains: “While the Temple itself would have to have the same dimensions as its predecessors [Solomon’s and Zerubbabel’s], the Temple Mount was not restricted in its potential size.” Hence, Herod expanded the temple area by adding on what in modern times has been called the Court of the Gentiles. Why would a construction with such a background have an antitype in Jehovah’s spiritual temple arrangement?
Fourth, almost anyone—the blind, the lame, and uncircumcised Gentiles—could enter the Court of the Gentiles. (Matthew 21:14, 15) True, the court served a purpose for many uncircumcised Gentiles who wished to make offerings to God. And it was there that Jesus sometimes addressed the crowds and twice expelled the money changers and merchants, saying that they had dishonored the house of his Father. (Matthew 21:12, 13; John 2:14-16) Still, The Jewish Encyclopedia says: “This outer court was, strictly speaking, not a part of the Temple. Its soil was not sacred, and it might be entered by any one.”
Fifth, the Greek word (hi·e·ron’) translated “temple” that is used with reference to the Court of the Gentiles “refers to the entire complex, rather than specifically to the Temple building itself,” says A Handbook on the Gospel of Matthew, by Barclay M. Newman and Philip C. Stine. In contrast, the Greek word (na·os’) translated “temple” in John’s vision of the great crowd is more specific. In the context of the Jerusalem temple, it usually refers to the Holy of Holies, the temple building, or the temple precincts. It is sometimes rendered “sanctuary.”—Matthew 27:5, 51; Luke 1:9, 21; John 2:20.
Members of the great crowd exercise faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. They are spiritually clean, having “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” Hence, they are declared righteous with a view to becoming friends of God and of surviving the great tribulation. (James 2:23, 25) In many ways, they are like proselytes in Israel who submitted to the Law covenant and worshiped along with the Israelites.
Of course, those proselytes did not serve in the inner courtyard, where the priests performed their duties. And members of the great crowd are not in the inner courtyard of Jehovah’s great spiritual temple, which courtyard represents the condition of perfect, righteous human sonship of the members of Jehovah’s “holy priesthood” while they are on earth. (1 Peter 2:5) But as the heavenly elder said to John, the great crowd really is in the temple, not outside the temple area in a kind of spiritual Court of the Gentiles. What a privilege that is! And how it highlights the need for each one to maintain spiritual and moral purity at all times!
 

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2 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

It means we are to view the many millions of people that died for their Christian beliefs over the last 2000 years as false Christians.

You are going beyond the scope of your reference here and that is not an assertion that fairly represents the belief of JW's- we are not in a position to judge. Never-the-less, I understand where you are coming from and your view represents the view of others as well.

The prevailing opinion of others is that everyone goes to heaven, so it is understandable that you would view Revelation 7:15 from that perspective. JW's believe that those who will rule as Kings and priests will perform those services in behalf of someone else. Those "meek that shall inherit the earth" as God had originally planned for mankind. So it is natural that our interpretation would reflect that. If you believe that the ultimate destination of all Christians is to go to heaven, it is understandable why you view things the way you do.  It is not the intention of most posters here to get into long and protracted debates and arguments that both know will not change either of their minds. Although some do.

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@b4ucuhear

Everyone who became a Jehovah’s Witnesses before 1934 would go to Heaven (until Rutherford changed it). God stopped calling people to only a heavenly calling from that year. So he invented two classes, a heavenly class and earthly class. The “great crowd” class introduced by Judge Rutherford out of necessity. An earthly Great Crowd was created, a second- class of people that were subject to and dependent upon the heavenly class who alone would be part of the new covenant.   But Mark Sanderson and other's are said to be of the anointed.

Thus the Watchtower fulfilled exactly what Jesus scolded the Pharisees in Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.”

The numbers for the 144000 do not add up

Watchtower has stated “by the latter years of the first century the second great persecution, under Emperor Domitian, flared up. It is said that in the year 95 alone some 40,000 suffered martyrdom (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1951 p.516)

Rev. 2:13: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.” The fact that Foxes book of martyrs mentions hundreds of thousands of martyrs in the first few centuries does not intrude on the Watchtower way of counting. They ignore history and revise it. They have to for arrival of their exclusive numbering.

 

The Watchtower in its first report of partakers of the meal, are 36,372 (“Yearly Reports of International Preaching Activity” 1928 to 1958) a footnote which states: First record of partakers at Memorial kept for celebration on Wednesday, April 17, 1935 (Bulletin, March Extra, 1935, p.2)

Their other reports state in 1935 ...... they had in attendance 63,146 ... and of those 52,465 were participants” (Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom p.717)

This is 85 years ago. Lest say for the sake of math that the 144,000 were being chosen since the beginning of the church we use the lesser number of 36,372.

Since the partakers of the Memorial must be considered by the Watchtower as part of the 144,000, accepting this idea would mean that there would be less than 144,000 to be chosen from 33 C.E. down to this period of time. The result would be

144,000
- 36,372
107,628 (source: Outnumbered – exploding the myth of the 144,000 by Russell Warren)

The Bible also states, Acts 2:41 “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.”

Acts 4:4 speaks of the number of men believing came to be about 5,000. That is 8,000 believers in Jesus in the first few weeks of the church. This would have to be an accepted number as the apostles were then the head of the church.

When we subtract from the number of:

107,628
- 8,000
99,628

As Russell Warren points out these, too, would be of the 144,000 were the 144,000 were the only calling at that time.

This leaves Jehovah to select 99,000 plus extending over almost 1900 years.

Foxes Book of Martyrs lists 254,502 martyrs. When we subtract this number from the 99,628 left at the first Jehovah’s Witness memorial meal … well you can see they have a problem with the numbers.

 99,628                                                                                                                                                                                                                -254,502

We now have 148,874 more than the 144,000 number. However let’s say it was only half the martyrs that Foxes book records, we are still 75,000 over the number. Oops. That is a big mistake

Lets round off the numbers and say there were 100,000. It’s obvious anyone who can do basic math and reflect on accurate history will conclude that their numbering, not just their doctrine is way off. So how do they deal with it? They come up with the teaching of apostates.

 

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3 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

The numbers for the 144000 do not add up

To who?  John Fox? Russell Warren? Micah Ong? ........... 

But .....who is inviting them? Who is selecting them? Who is assisting them in their earthy course? Who is blessing their activity in harmony with His will? Who is the Head of their congregation? Who is judging them to be faithful? Who resurrrects them to heavenly life? Who reveals their actual number? Who stands with them in vision when the number is revealed? Whose names are written on their foreheads at that time?

Well, I don't see the names John Fox, Russell Warren, Micah Ong, or indeed any other human name figuring in the answers to the questions above so...............adding up the numbers is best  left to those qualified to do so.

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4 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Well, I don't see the names John Fox, Russell Warren, Micah Ong, or indeed any other human name figuring in the answers to the questions above so...............adding up the numbers is best  left to those qualified to do so.

Well it's certainly not the Jehovah's Witnesses as Jesus can't be leading an organization that has so many failed prophecies and farcical statements since 1919 of when Jesus had taken reign of this chosen group!  They just make things up, and when things don't play as they say, they just change it and call it new light.

1915 The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overturned about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity. (The Time Is At Hand, 1915 edition, p. 242)

1924 "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914. (Watchtower 1924, p. 211)

1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3)

1927 "Twelve hundred and sixty years from 539 A.D. brings us to 1799, which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of "the time of the end." this also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." (Creation; 1927, p. 294)

1930 Judge Joseph Frederick Rutherford 60, lives in a ten room Spanish mansion, No 4440 Braeburn Rd, San Diego, Calif. Last week he deeded No 4440 Braeburn Road, and adjacent two car garage and a pair of automobiles to King David, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthae, Samuel and sundry other mighties of ancient Palestine. Positive is he that they are shortly to reappear on earth, Said he: 'I have purposely landscaped the place with palm and olive trees so that these princes of the universe will feel at home.. (Time Magazine, March 31, 1930)

1931 "God's faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925. They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass." (Vindication, vol. 1, 1931, p. 146)

1940 The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)

1953 "After almost six thousand years of human sorrow, suffering and death, at last permanent relief is near at hand and will be realized within this generation." (New Heavens And A New Earth; 1953; p. 7)

1968 "Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." (Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4 [note: 1968 + 90 months = 1975])

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1969 "in view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous....Many young brothers and sisters were offered scholarship or employment that promised fine pay. However, they turned them down and put spiritual interests first." (Kingdom Ministry, June 1969, p. 3)

1976 "It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440)

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1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)

1995 "Why Awake is Published" [before Nov 8th 1995] Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." [After Nov. 8 1995 reference to '1914 generation' deleted] "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."

I have heaps more but again I quote:

Deuteronomy 18:22 "When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’"

Is this how Jehovah and Jesus guide a chosen group of people?

Does Jesus motivate, by Holy Spirit, his anointed chosen ones to announce false things?

The track record speaks for itself.

As @Queen Esther nicely points out from John 14:6 only Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. 

No  man  can  come  to  me  unless  the  Father,  who  sent  me,  draws  him.  JOHN,  6, 44 

 

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7 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

Well it's certainly not the Jehovah's Witnesses

Well of course Jehovah's Witnesses do not calculate who finally qualify to rule with Christ. Nor any other imperfect human,     although their opinion abounds. I am glad we agree on that point.

7 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous

This was a warning in 1969. Probably not one that you were there to consider at the time?? Mind you. it doesn't seem to add much to what Paul said earlier does it?  1 Tim 6:9 (Ooh! Just had a funny feeling when I saw the numbers!!) "But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin."

But then, maybe you were one who did suffer from date spec? Did you miss an opportunity?

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9 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

Deuteronomy 18:22 "When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’"

It is fair, (as you say) that miraculously inspired prophets in the Bible can and often do, predict future events. And of course, that is the definition that is applied by people who are not JW's and take issue with us. But that is not the definition we apply to ourselves. Why? Because that is not the only definition or attribute that can qualify one as a prophet in doing a prophetic work. JW's are not miraculously inspired and so WE ALREADY KNOW many of the expectations put forward have not taken place as expected. We can't even predict the weather tomorrow (I'm sure you're surprised to know that :). We also acknowledge that while we often say "prophecy is best understood after it has been fulfilled," we even get that wrong at times. So why aren't we all throwing our arms in the air and rushing over to Micah Ong to save us from our folly? Because Micah Ong doesn't know what he is talking about and misapplying what millions of others already know. Here is a description of our view that is not from the "outside" - nose pressed against the glass - looking in:

"The Greek 'prophetes' literally means "a speaker out (Gr., pro "before" or "in front of," and 'phemi,' "say") and thus describes a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. (Compare Titus 1:120. Though this includes the thought of a predictor of the future, the fundamental meaning of the word is not that of prediction. (Compare Judges 6:7-10). Nonetheless, living in harmony with God's will requires that the individual know what Jehovah's revealed purposes for the future are so that he may bring his ways, desires, and goals into line with the divine will. Hence, in the great majority of cased, the Biblical prophets did convey messages that free directly or indirectly related to the future." it-2 prophet.

So in "making known messages attributed to a divine source (God - not the educated guesses regarding dates and whatnot - however well meaning - from the GB) we are in a sense doing a prophetic work. For instance, we can confidently say that Armageddon is going to come and therefore do a warning work of an event yet future - a message recorded in God's Word by miraculously inspired faithful servants. But even though we may try to make educated guesses as to the details of how it will happen, we really have no miraculous ability to predict these things. In fact, we also recognize that when elders are said to be "appointed by holy spirit," it is due to the fact (ideally) that they measure up to the qualifications inspired by holy spirit in God's word. No human on earth has a miraculous ability to read hearts, minds, motives...

But there is a responsibility or onus that anyone who cares about others takes seriously. An illustration: Scientists may feel from the "signs" they see,  there seems to be a strong indication an earthquake is about to take place. They have no miraculous ability to predict the future, but nevertheless, they give the order to evacuate because that, to the best of their knowledge, would be the prudent course of action. If it turns out no earthquake takes place, at least no lives were lost - although it would likely be inconvenient. If anyone believed they had good reason to take a certain course of action - even acknowledging they can't predict the future, why wouldn't they at least give a warning? On the other hand, what if it did happen? Now we know certain things for sure, because they are set out in God's Word. But regarding the details that are not specifically spelled out in God's Word, (i.e.. dates and related info), we can't claim miraculous inspiration to fill in those details.

It's true there have been well meaning assertions that out of eagerness have tried to fill in the blanks. And when I see descriptions of how we are told things will take place with details that are not specifically set out in God's Word, I take it with a grain of salt because the case could be made that historically we have been often mistaken. Even things we have studied for years regarding "types and antitypes?" All out the window. Oh well, that's progress for you. I knew to expect that and I'm pretty sure there will be other stuff to fall by the wayside. But even recognizing an imperfect and incomplete picture of things yet to take place, it doesn't stop me from knocking.

By-the-way, what religion are you that you feel is so much better? And don't try a clever dodge by saying "Christian."

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18 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

The fact that Foxes book of martyrs mentions hundreds of thousands of martyrs in the first few centuries does not intrude on the Watchtower way of counting. They ignore history and revise it. They have to for arrival of their exclusive numbering.

Martyr: def 1) "a person who willingly suffers death rather than reduce his or her religion 2) a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice" 

The fact that someone is described (legitimately or not) as a martyr does not of itself qualify that one as being an anointed Christian, called to be one of the 144,000 described in Revelation. As Paul stated "...I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge..." (Rom. 10:2) You can look at it any way you choose to, but our understanding according to Jesus' description of true wheat-like Christians being oversown with counterfeit weeds soon after the death of the apostles may have some bearing here. Not only that but the explicit warnings that a wholesale apostasy would develop shortly after the early Christian congregation was established should indicate to the unbiased reader that there would be many false Christians and few true ones. Soon apostate Christianity was the order of the day. So does that fact that someone dies for their beliefs make them a true Christian? There are lots of different religions now that do not agree on how God should be worshipped and yet are willing to die for their beliefs. Does willing to die in man-made wars, crusades, inquisitions or even persecution, automatically qualify them as acceptable to God?  If so, then the suicide bombings and terrorist activity of those wiling to die for their beliefs must also qualify them as acceptable to God, no?  The fact is, I can't quantify all who are selected by God or not and neither can you. 

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2 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

By-the-way, what religion are you that you feel is so much better? And don't try a clever dodge by saying "Christian."

I never said come to me I am not your mediator to God, I'm not saying I have all the answers, no one on earth does!  As I pointed out Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.  I do not ascribe to any religion and agree with the early statements of the Watchtower that "Religion is a Snare and a Racket!"  I do see the Watchtower as a very successful book publishing company that has cleverly grown through free labor.

It's clear that JW's elevate Jehovah's name over Jesus name when God has elevated Jesus name as the name above every other name - Philippians 2:9; also the person we are saved under - Acts 4:10.  The New Testament is God's final revelation in the Bible not the old Testament so why go back to Isaiah 43:10 and contradict Acts 1:8.  Jesus never said to call on YHWH for salvation and never said to address the Father as YHWH.

2 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

But even though we may try to make educated guesses as to the details of how it will happen, we really have no miraculous ability to predict these things.

But the Governing Body are meant to be God's channel!  "Mystical manipulation can take on a special quality in these cults because the leaders become mediators for God." "

"That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel." Watchtower 2013 Jul 15 p.20

      Identifying those used by Jehovah  
 
Bible Times
Watchtower Governing Body
Miracles Jehovah used miraculous works to identify those chosen to lead others. For example:
Noah - Gathering of the animals
Moses - Staff into a snake
Apostles - Gifts of the spirit, such as faith healing


   None
Prophecy When Jehovah used a person to make future predictions, the prophecies were always correct. For example, Daniel's prophecy for the fall of Babylon and the line of world powers 100% of Watchtower predictions have been false, such as that the end of the world would be in 1914, then 1925, then 1975. Furthermore, the generation teaching promoted prior to 1995 is proven to be false, as the last survivors born prior to 1914 die out.
Consistency Bible is harmonious, with Bible writers presenting a message without contradiction. Watchtower doctrine has been in constant flux. This cannot be explained as new light, as there have been numerous flip flops and contradictions, such as the generation teaching, organ transplants, and superior authorities.

 

Why would I trust the Watchtower to save me at Armageddon when their track record shows me that even their well meaning assertions were wrong.  I don't think I would take the so-called 'instructions that won't make sense from a human tactical point at Armageddon' when they do not have any reliable track record.  Compare this to Joshua addressing the Israelites - Joshua 23:14 "...not one word has failed."

All religions have elements of truth in them but no one religion has the absolute truth.  I know the Jehovah's Witnesses have the saying that we are in the "truth."  Well that's not true because it keeps changing.  Come on lets be honest here.

There a lot's of good things with Jehovah's Witnesses because of the teachings of bible based principles, but I see that with many other christian groups as well.  What I don't see are soup kitchens or other charitable ways of helping the unfortunate unless they happen to be in a disaster area close other Jehovah's Witnesses.

I believe your own sincere heartfelt personal relationship with God through his word, prayer and encouragement from fellow believers (true Bible believing Christians), and common sense is all that required.  You can share that with others at anytime as well.  I think religion has complicated things and created a lot of fear and a huge sense of obligation.  Life is a precious gift from our creator and the price for our sins has been paid.  Your not going to live a life against God if you sincerely accept that. 

 

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6 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

1 Tim 6:9 (Ooh! Just had a funny feeling when I saw the numbers!!) "But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin."

But then, maybe you were one who did suffer from date spec? Did you miss an opportunity?

Haha no I wasn't born then!  Surely that is overkill though.  There are plenty of well off JW's who have high qualifications like doctors and laywers and are they falling into snares and hurtful desires?  No!  So you are misapplying the scripture as the Leading Men at that time were. 

So are you laughing at people that did suffer then because of date speculation?

And this isn't date speculation?

1968 "Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more." (Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4 [note: 1968 + 90 months = 1975])

I pray that your heart softens.

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      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) The Jews in 29 CE where in expectation of the arrival of the Messiah!  “Now the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?”  (Luke 3:15)
      In the final Chapter of Daniel, Gabriel gives detailed information about the Ruler of God’s kingdom that would mark the End of the Gentile times.  At that time, “
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. — Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .  The prophecy is detailed to Daniel in the following scripture from Gabriel. “During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.” (Daniel 12:1) Yes in 1914, Michael the Great Prince stands up to begin Ruling as King of God’s Kingdom.  Michael is the Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6, the Prince of Peace, the Angel of Great Counsel who is Wisdom in Proverbs 8.  Michael is the one Philippians spoken of has being given the Name. “Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus,  who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.  No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human.  More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake” (Philippians 2:5-8)
      For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,  so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground—  and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)
      “And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne.” (Rev 12:5)  “And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled  but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven.  So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.” (Rev 12:7-9)
      Notice what the following verse calls Michael. “I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
      “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!  And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.” (Rev 12:10-11)
      “the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16)  Commanding Call, an Archangel’s Voice and with God’s Trumpet all point to the Word of God, the Lord himself Jesus Christ.  “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” (Daniel 12:4)
      Then Gabriel tells Daniel: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end.  Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand.” (Daniel 12:9-10)
      “If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing,  among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.” (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
      “For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake.” (2 Corinthians 4:5)  “For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.  For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.” (Romans 10:9-10) “And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)
      This is a small synopsis of the scriptures of the glorious good news about the Christ.  To gain understanding to keep on living: “Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that he may exalt you in due time,  while you throw all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.” (1 Peter 5:6-7)
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    • By Brother Rando
      You may be surprised to find out that the trinity doctrine does not accept Jesus Christ.  It promotes a false gospel that ‘three separate persons make up God’ which is unbiblical. Therefore, it is not unusual to come across an apostate trinitarian who deny the teachings of Jesus Christ.
      When Jesus Christ stated that ‘God is a Spirit’ in (John 4:24) trinitarians proclaim that Christ was lying because their doctrine teaches that God is made up of three separate PERSONS.  In John 17:1 Jesus addresses his Father in prayer, he said: “Father,… and in John 17:3  he states, “This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God”  Was Jesus addressing God the Father or the trinity itself?
      Trinitarians proclaim he was not addressing the trinity itself, but God the Father.  Wouldn’t that prove that the trinity is a False God?  “He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4)
      As Jesus continue his teachings he states, “God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24)  Notice those worshiping HIM is in singular?  Not ‘us’ ‘we’ they’ ‘them’ or even ME.  Since trinitarians admit that the trinity is not God itself, aren’t trinitarians worshipping ‘gods’?  None of them worship God the Father alone who Jesus claims to be the only true God in (John 17:3)  Jesus Christ continues, “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.” (John 4:23)
      According to Jesus, only the Father was to be worshipped, not a trinity of ‘gods’.  Jesus made his Father’s Name known to his disciples. “I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.” (John 17:6)  Jesus even went as far to teach his disciples to pray this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.” 
      If you take a closer look at the trinity doctrine, NONE of the Persons have a NAME.  It’s a generic formula borrowed from Pagan Worship. Trinitarians shout and yell that, Jesus is God the Son in the trinity.  But the trinity itself simply doesn’t give witness about Jesus.  When asked to show the doctrine they often turn red and say that I must simply believe them.  Then I ask, since the trinity doesn’t state that Jesus is God the Son, show one scripture that states that. They hee and haw in frustration and begin to taunt and curse not able to find a single verse. You won’t find God the Son or God the Holy Spirit in the Bible because it simply isn’t.  There is a HUGE difference from God the Son and son of God.  If Jesus is the son of God, then whose son is he?  The trinity doesn’t have three sons does it?
      Jesus is not the only person to give witness about his God and Father.  The Apostles would greet one another with a similar phrase.  “Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1 Peter 1:3)   The trinity omits the Name of God, and it omits the Name of Christ.  Matter of fact, here is what the scriptures state about the trinity. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” (2 John 7)
      Have you accepted the mark of the Beast and not even know it?  In Ancient times, the trinity was symbolized by three snakes, each snake would chase its own tail looking like 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.    A time is coming, if you refuse to worship the trinity, you will be put to death.  “And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.” (Rev 13:15)  
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , with a Worldwide membership of 2.8 Billion People and growing!  Mankind who are both weak or strong, slave or king, such ones march in the streets to promote or protest.  They place themselves above others claiming they have rights that no one else can have.  They proclaim they even have the right to end life, should they carry a life inside them. They make themselves godlike and others have to bend to their superiority.  (Read  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Those who deny 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and have already accepted the mark of the Beast willingly.  “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26) Feel free to contact me if you wish to leave the occult of the trinity.  There is HELP.
    • By The Librarian
      The Final Week of Jesus’ Life on Earth - timeline.pdf
      The Final Week of Jesus’ Life on Earth - scriptures.pdf
      The Final Week of Jesus’ Life on Earth - audio only.zip
      The Final Week of Jesus’ Life on Earth - scriptures & audio.pdf
    • By Brother Rando
      The Memorial of Christ is not the Last Supper that the world continues to celebrate. The Last Supper can also be rendered the Last Passover Meal. The Jewish Day began at Sunset.  Since the Sun sets at various times, the Passover Supper would begin after the Sun disappeared from the Horizon with darkness setting in. The Last Passover Meal was Nisan 14th, 33 CE with the abolishment of the Old Covenant.
      When evening came, he was reclining at the table with the 12 disciples. ?While they were eating, he said: “Truly I say to you, one of you will betray me.” (
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )   The event that concluded the Last Passover Meal was the dismissal of an unfaithful apostle.  Jesus answered: “It is the one to whom I will give the piece of bread that I dip.” So after dipping the bread, he took it and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. ?After Judas took the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him. So Jesus said to him: “What you are doing, do it more quickly.”  ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )  “So after he received the piece of bread, he went out immediately. And it was night.” ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) After dismissing the betrayer from the midst of the Faithful Disciples, Jesus instituted a new teaching for His Faithful Followers.  Notice, the whole world wasn’t invited, but those who proved to be faithful and trustworthy up to this point.  Since the founding of the Christian Congregation on Pentecost 33 CE, Christians have been commemorating the death of Jesus Christ every Nisan 14th.  With one simple command,  his faithful sheep “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Please join us for the annual observance of the death of Jesus Christ. This year it will be held on  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .   Search for your 
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    • By The Librarian
      The Holy Bible > List of Biblical Persons > Jesus Christ

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  or posts tagged "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ"
      Jesus (/ˈdʒiːzəs/; Greek: Ἰησοῦς Iesous; 2 B.C.E. (timeline) to 33 C.E.), also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth, is the Son of Jehovah God and the awaited Messiah of the 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .The name Jesus (Gr., I·e·sous′) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” The name itself was not unusual, many men being so named in that period. He is also referred to as Jesus Christ, from the Greek Khri·stos′, the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma·shi′ach(Messiah), and means “Anointed One.” Our Modern day, most widely used Gregorian calendar uses the terms B.C. (Before Christ) and A.D. (Anno Domini = Year of our Lord in Latin) basing our current year of 2014 as the year since his supposed birth according to a medieval estimate.

      The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. In heaven he was known as Michael the Archangel. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo′gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,”Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, His firstborn Son. This is direct opposition to the popular and later teaching of the Trinity by the  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
      Sir Isaac Newton weighed in on the identity of Michael the Archangel

      That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.

      Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”—Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

      Jesus began his life billions of years before the first human ever existed (Compare Mic 5:2.) and was used by his father in the creation of all of the universe (Joh 1:3; Col 1:16, 17) and the other angels and spirit creatures in heaven (Da 7:9, 10; Re 5:11),

      Jesus was conceived by 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  being transferred from his heavenly life as Michael the Archangel into the womb of a virgin named Mary who was engaged to Joseph. He was born in Bethlehem as a human baby in the year 2 B.C.E.. A star shined above his birthplace guiding astrologers to pay tribute to him.
      He was later raised in Nazareth where  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .  
       
       
      See also:
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Is Jesus a "Mediator" for God and All Men?  
      The Memorial of the Death of Jesus Christ
    • By Brother Rando
      Praised be {Jehovah} the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 1:3) Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, (John 17:1)  This means everlasting life, their coming to know YOU, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. (John 17:3)  I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. (John 17:6)  I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. (John 17:22)  Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and these have come to know that you sent me. ?I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.” (John 17:25-26)
      You must pray, then, this way: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. ?Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.” (Matthew 6:9-10)  Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; ?whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it. (Matthew 17:13-14)  Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. (Mark 13:32)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5)  Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)  No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him,and I will resurrect him on the last day. (John 6:44)
      “That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.” 
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    • By The Librarian
      Jesus looked for secluded areas to pray in contrast with long public prayers for the sake of appearance. 
      One of his shortest prayers was “Father,  into your hands I commend my spirit” (23:46)
      The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus “when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying” (3:21)
      and on and on...
      If following Jesus Christ in the gospel of Luke means doing as Jesus does, then prayer is a vital part of being a follower of Jesus. 
      Have you said a prayer yet today?
    • By Brother Rando
      Who would reject the Baptism in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ? The Answer may surprise you.  In fulfillment of prophecy Jesus stated, “And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)
      The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.”
      “The Demonstratio Evangelica” by Eusebius: Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus’ actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: “With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” That “Name” is Jesus.
      The Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, I, page 275:“It is often affirmed that the words in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost are not the ipsissima verba [exact words] of Jesus, but…a later liturgical addition.”
      Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger: He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.” — Joseph Ratzinger (pope Benedict XVI) Introduction to Christianity: 1968 edition, pp. 82, 83.
      How did the Hebrew Book of Matthew 28:18-20 read? “Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations in MY Name,  teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Hebrew Matthew 28:18-20)
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    • By Brother Rando
      Many religions teach that the soul is immortal and that it never dies. What is your take? Can the soul really die?
    • By The Librarian
      Created in this subcategory:
      https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forum/2-christian/
       
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      How Is Jesus Christ a "Mighty God?"
      The Promise of a Prince of Peace
      At the time of his miraculous birth, the one born to be the Messiah received the name Jesus, meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.”
      But he has other names, prophetic names that outline his key role and his elevated position. One such name is Immanuel, meaning “With Us Is God.” ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , footnote) Isaiah now describes another prophetic name: “There has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
      Jesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God Our Father.” ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) 
      He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
      In the Scriptures, the word “god” can mean “mighty one” or “strong one.” ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) 
      Before Jesus came to earth, he was “a god,” “existing in God’s form.” After his resurrection, he returned to an even higher position in the heavens. ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) 
      Further, the designation “god” carries an additional implication. Judges in Israel were called “gods”—once by Jesus himself. ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) 
      Jesus is Jehovah’s appointed Judge, “destined to judge the living and the dead.” ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) 
      Clearly, he is well named Mighty God.
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    • By Bible Speaks
      How was Linen used in the Bible? 
      The cleanness and purity of white linen, it is used in the Scriptures to symbolize righteousness.
      The robe of fine white linen worn by the Aaronic high priest was to be woven in checkerwork, evidence that the Israelites were well acquainted with the art, being able to weave patterns into their fabrics.—Ex 28:39.
      In the construction of the tabernacle, Bezalel and Oholiab were experts whose ability was increased and sharpened by God’s holy spirit, so that they could do the required work exactly according to the pattern given by Jehovah. (Ex 35:30-35)
      Also, there were women with fine ability in this direction, spinning thread from flax and from wool. (Ex 35:25, 26)
      In making the fabric for the ephod of Aaron the high priest, the workmen “beat plates of gold to thin sheets, and . . . cut out threads to work in among the blue thread and the wool dyed reddish purple and the coccus scarlet material and the fine linen, as the work of an embroiderer.”—Ex 39:2, 3.
      Linen was woven from flax, which has much longer fibers than cotton and is easier to spin but is harder to dye. Linen was a cherished item in the wardrobes of kings and high officials. Joseph was clothed with “garments of fine linen” when he was made a ruler in Egypt. (Ge 41:42) Also, Mordecai went out from before the Persian king in royal apparel of blue and linen. (Es 8:15) Women valued clothing made of linen.—Pr 31:22.
      Other Uses. Cloth bands were used as swaddling bands for newborn babies. (Lu 2:7) The Jews also had the custom of preparing bodies for burial by binding them with bandages of clean linen along with spices (not an embalming process such as the Egyptians practiced). (Joh 19:40; Mt 27:59)
      After Jesus’ resurrection John and Peter found the bandages and the cloth that had been upon Jesus rolled up separately lying in the tomb. (Joh 20:5-7)
      When Lazarus was resurrected he came out of the tomb with his countenance still bound up with the cloth that had been placed over his head at burial—apparently a long piece of linen fabric.—Joh 11:44.
      Money was sometimes kept wrapped in a cloth. This was the way the wicked slave referred to in one of Jesus’ illustrations kept his mina instead of investing it. (Lu 19:20) Money was often carried in the voluminous folds of the bosom of the garment, probably wrapped in such cloths.
      God’s law to the people of Israel commanded: “You must not wear mixed stuff of wool and linen together.” (De 22:11; see also Le 19:19.) Regarding this, theEncyclopaedia Judaica (Jerusalem, 1973, Vol. 14, col. 1213) remarked: “The clothing of the priests was notably exempt from the prohibition of [sha·ʽat·nez′] [a garment of two sorts of thread, NW]. Exodus 28:6, 8, 15 and 39:29 prescribe that various pieces be made of linen and colored wool interwoven. . . . This suggests that the general prohibition was grounded on the taboo character of such a mixture, pertaining exclusively to the realm of the sacred.”
      Figurative Usage. Because of the cleanness and purity of white linen, it is used in the Scriptures to symbolize righteousness. The garments next to the high priest’s body, namely the drawers, robe, and turban, as well as the drawers, robes, and headgears for the underpriests, were made of fine, white linen. (Ex 28:39-42; compare Job 29:14.)
      The bride of the Lamb is arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, for “the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones.” (Re 19:8) The armies following Jesus Christ in heaven are represented as being clothed in white, clean, fine linen. (Re 19:14) Babylon the Great, which has been rich in the traffic of merchandise including fine linen, also has put on an appearance of righteousness, being “clothed with fine linen,” while at the same time carrying on the activities of a harlot.—Re 18:3, 12, 16
      Figurative Use. Babylon the Great is depicted as being arrayed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, representing luxury. (Re 18:16) But in the case of the bride of Christ the fine linen of her apparel is clearly said to represent “the righteous acts of the holy ones.”
      Likewise the heavenly armies are shown clothed in white, clean, fine linen, indicative of their carrying on war in righteousness.—Re 19:8, 11, 14; see also Da 10:5; Re 15:6
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    • By Bible Speaks
      "Who do you say I am?"—Matt. 16:15.
      #JesusChrist #GodsKingdom #Apostles #LoveOneAnother? #LoyalLove

    • By Nathan Russell
      Outside of the Bible is there any archilogical or written evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed that has already not been proven to be forgeries or based on myth?
    • By Bible Speaks
      12 "On one of those days he went out to the mountain to pray, and he spent the whole night in prayer to God."
      (Luke 6:12) NWT  
      Have you prayed all night some nights? ?? ? ??

    • By Bible Speaks
      JESUS CHRIST DIDN'T JUST SAVE OUR LIFE - HE MADE OUR LIFE WORTH SAVING! 
      To benefit from God’s promises, though, we must understand the role Jesus Christ plays in our salvation and exercise faith in him. Jesus himself said: “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16) 
      Pointing to the central role of Jesus Christ in this matter, the apostle Peter said: “There is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) 
      The apostle Paul and his associate Silas urged a sincere inquirer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household.”—(Acts 16:30, 31)
      Yes, Jesus Christ is “the Chief Agent of life,” and salvation is possible only through him. (Acts 3:15) But how can one man be such a key figure in saving us? Having a clear understanding of his role in this regard should strengthen our hope of salvation.
       

    • By Bible Speaks
      JESUS DIDN'T JUST SAVE OUR LIFE - HE MADE OUR LIFE WORTH SAVING! 
      To benefit from God’s promises, though, we must understand the role Jesus Christ plays in our salvation and exercise faith in him. Jesus himself said: “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16) 
      Pointing to the central role of Jesus Christ in this matter, the apostle Peter said: “There is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) 
      The apostle Paul and his associate Silas urged a sincere inquirer: “Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household.”—(Acts 16:30, 31)
      Yes, Jesus Christ is “the Chief Agent of life,” and salvation is possible only through him. (Acts 3:15) But how can one man be such a key figure in saving us? Having a clear understanding of his role in this regard should strengthen our hope of salvation.
       
       

    • By Bible Speaks
      Who Really Is Jesus Christ?
      “Now when he entered into Jerusalem, the whole city was set in commotion, saying: ‘Who is this?’ The crowds kept telling: ‘This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee!’”— Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
      WHY did the arrival of Jesus Christ
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  in Jerusalem on that spring day in 33 C.E. cause such commotion? Many in the city had heard about Jesus and the extraordinary things he had done.          They kept telling others about him. ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Yet, little did the crowds know that in their midst was a man whose influence would spread around the world and span the centuries down to our day! Consider a few examples of the far-reaching influence that Jesus has had      on human history.
      The calendar commonly used in many parts of the world is based on the year when Jesus is thought to have been born.
      Some two billion people—about a third of the world’s population—call themselves Christians.
      Islam, with more than a billion members worldwide, teaches that Jesus is “a greater prophet than Abraham, Noah, and Moses.”
      Many of Jesus’ wise sayings have, in various forms, entered everyday speech. Among them are the following:
      Jesus’ influence is beyond question. Yet, people hold widely different ideas and beliefs about him. Hence, you may wonder, ‘Who really is Jesus Christ?’ The Bible alone tells us where Jesus came from, how he lived, and why he died. Knowing those truths about him can have a profound effect on your life—now and in the future.
      “Jesus,” the personal name of this prophet from Nazareth, means “Jehovah Is Salvation.” The word “Christ” is a title that means “Anointed One,” signifying that Jesus was anointed, or appointed by God to a special position. 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • By Bible Speaks
      God’s foremost judicial officer, Jesus Christ, is “the Lion that is of the tribe of Judah.” (Re 5:5) Appropriately, therefore, the lion, as a symbol of courageous justice, is associated with Jehovah’s presence and throne.—Eze 1:10; 10:14; Re 4:7.


    • By Bible Speaks
      - Let Jehovah Guide you to Rest and Put Confidence in Him! - He Will Save Us from Harm!   
      1. "Jehovah is my Shepherd.
      I will lack nothing.                            

      2   In grassy pastures he makes me lie down;
      He leads me to well-watered resting-places.

      3   He refreshes me.
      He leads me in the paths of righteousness for the sake of his name.

      4   Though I walk in the valley of deep shadow, I fear no harm,
      For you are with me;
      Your rod and your staff reassure me.

      5   You prepare a table for me before my enemies.
      You refresh my head with oil;
      My cup is well-filled.

      6   Surely goodness and loyal love will pursue me all the days of my life, And I will dwell in the house of Jehovah for all my days."
      (Ps. 23:1-6) NWT jw.org 

    • By Bible Speaks
      "The crowds were astounded at his way of teaching."—Matt. 7:28. jw.org

    • By Bible Speaks
      "Follow his steps closely."—1 Pet. 2:21 NWT 
      jw.org

    • By Bible Speaks
      8:12 "Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world."
      "Whoever follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light."
      (John 8:12)  NWT jw.org
    • By Bible Speaks
      "Ride in the cause of truth and humility."—Ps. 45:4.
    • By Jesus.defender
      CHRIST’S BODILY RESURRECTION ‘I have power to take it again’ Jn 10:18
      Watchtower Teaching: ‘Jesus was raised to life as an invisible spirit. He did not take up again that body in which he had been killed . . .’ ‘Let your Name be sanctified.’ (p.266).
      The Watchtower teaches that Jesus’ body was disposed of by God.
      The NWT mistranslates I Peter 3:18 as ‘being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit’ to teach merely a spiritual resurrection of Christ.
      Bible Teaching: I Peter 3:18 refers to when Christ died. His Spirit went and preached to spirits in prison (v. 19,20). After three days, Christ’s physical body was raised.
      I Peter 3:18 (KJV) correctly reads: ‘being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.’
      Which Scriptures best teach Christ’s bodily resurrection?
      1. ‘They were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.’ (v.37) He said unto them, ‘Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.’ (Luke 24:37, 39)
      Notice that the resurrected Christ says here that:
      (1) He is not a spirit;
      (2) His resurrection body has flesh and bones;
      (3) His physical hands and feet are proof of His physical resurrection;
      Jesus is trying to convince them that He, ‘I myself’ has a permanent physical body which still had the nail scars in His hands and feet. This is opposite to the WT teaching that Christ’s body was disposed of and that He became only a spirit. If the WT claim was correct, then
      Jesus would be deceiving the disciples here in showing them His body.
      2. ‘Then saith he to Thomas, . . . reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.’ (John 20:27)
      Here Jesus says that He has a physical side that He challenges Thomas to touch.
      3. ‘Neither did his flesh see corruption.’ - Acts 2:30,31
      Notice the following:
      a) God promised David that ‘according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ’ to sit on his throne.’ (v.30). This is a bodily resurrection of Christ, not spiritual. The NWT omits this because of its corrupt Westcott-Hort Greek text. Well over 38 manuscripts have it.
      b) ‘neither did his flesh see corruption’ (v.31) means that Christ’s body did not decay.
      Why? Because Jesus was raised from the dead in a material, fleshly body.
      4. ‘I will raise it up . . . he spake of the temple of his body.’ - John 2:19-21
      ‘Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up (v.19). But he spake of the temple of his body.’ (v.21)
      Jesus here promised that He Himself would raise up His own body after three days.
      Notice how Jesus uses the word ‘body’ meaning a bodily resurrection, not a spiritual resurrection.
      5. Christ promises to eat of the fruit of the vine in the Kingdom. Only a body can eat.
      ‘I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the Kingdom of God shall come.’(Luke 22:18)
      Jesus here showed that his resurrected body would be able to eat and drink even in the Kingdom of God. Notice that a non-material spirit cannot eat and drink. Jesus promised the disciples in Luke 22:30 ‘that ye may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom.’
      Question: If Jesus expected to become an immaterial spirit, why would He promise the disciples that they would eat and drink with Christ at His table in His Kingdom?
      6. Christ ate a broiled fish and a honeycomb in front of them. Luke 24:41,42.
      7. ‘he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies’. Rom. 8:11
      As Christ’s body was raised physically from the dead, so shall our mortal bodies be raised.
      8. His resurrection body could ‘breathe on them’(John 20:22). A spirit cannot breathe, can it?
      9. ‘His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives...’ Zechariah 14:4
      A spirit does not have feet. Only a physical body has feet as Jesus has at His second coming.
      10. ‘One shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands?’ Zechariah 13:6
      Question: How can a non-material spirit have wounds in his hands which can be observed?
      11. The resurrected, glorified Christ touched John, laying his right hand on him. Rev. 1:17
      Watchtower Objection: JWs quote I Corinthians 15:44,50 to support their claim that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit creature:
      a) ‘It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.’ (v.44)
      b) ‘flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.’ (v.50). JWs claim that Jesus must have had a spiritual resurrection, because flesh-and-blood bodies cannot exist in heaven.
      They claim that mortality and corruption belong to the fleshly body.
      Bible Teaching:
      a) The Greek word for body, ‘soma’ (4983), always means a material body, an organised whole made up of parts, when used of a person (Zodhiates, NT Word Study,p.1358). The spiritual
      body in I Cor.15:44 is not an immaterial body, but a supernatural, spirit-dominated body.
      It is a body directed by the spirit, as opposed to a body under the dominion of the flesh.
      There are no exceptions to Paul using ‘soma’ for a material body.
      Paul even refers to a believer as a ‘spiritual’ man who judges all things (I Cor. 2:15), yet Paul did not mean an immaterial invisible man with no physical body.
      He meant a spirit-controlled man with a flesh and blood body.
      QUESTION: In I Corinthians 2:15 (‘He that is spiritual judgeth all things’), is Paul discussing an invisible spirit creature or a material, flesh-and-blood human? Can you see that being ‘spiritual’ does not demand a non-material body? The same is true in I Corinthians 15:44.
      b) Key: In v.50 ‘flesh and blood’ is an idiom meaning that mortal, perishable, earth-bound
      humans, as we are now, cannot have a place in God’s glorious, heavenly Kingdom.
      c) ‘this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.’v.53
      Nothing is taken away from us (materialness). Instead immortality is ‘put on’ or added to us.
      Question: Don’t the words ‘put on’ mean adding something to humanity (that is immortality),
      not taking away something from humanity (our material body)?
      Conclusion: Since Christ’s resurrected body could eat, drink, breathe (John 20:22), show His hands and feet with scars (Luke 24:40), be touched, and have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39), it is certain that this body was a material body. This is especially true since Jesus corrected the disciples’ misconception that they had seen a spirit (Luke 24:37).
      For the JWs to say that a body is not a body, is their last resort of redefining common words.
       
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