JW's in Malawi vs. Mexico: Why the Disparity?

[TrueTomHarley]

1 minute ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The reason no one saves someone that has fallen overboard, in certain circumstances, is because to stop the ship for a rescue makes that ship EXTREMELY vulnerable to submarine torpedo attack, and EVERYBODY on board knows this.  

 

Oh. Of course. All the casualties of physical warfare are explainable, yet let there be one casualty of theocratic warfare and it can only be because responsible ones are saying: 'Hey, let's make this move and watch the little people suffer....won't that be fun?'

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Tommy Tom Tom Tom Tom ...

If you don't get it ... it cannot be explained to you, even with puppets and crayons, and an infinite amount of time ......

I have the puppets and crayons, but I don't  have an infinite amount of time ...

The only thing I can suggest is that you don't forget your medications.

 

OH, and if I ever ... If I ever truncate your name, I will be sure to use "True".

 

.

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

He would have us believe that General Patton, looking upon the battle scene, saying "I love it. God help me, I DO love it" tormented himself over the death of every loyal soldier....remember how he pinned the medal on the maimed soldier and kissed him, a man who couldn't possibly have been aware of it, before kicking at the 'yellow coward?'

The GB, on the other hand, says: "Look at how they got mowed down at TimBuck2! Isn't that a hoot?"

[TrueTomHarley]

27 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If I ever truncate your name, I will be sure to use "True".

Uh oh.

[JW Insider]

This will probably take three or four postings so let's consider this PART 2 of 4 [edited: PART 2 of 6]. This part is mostly commentary on what was already presented in the photocopies in PART 1.

p.149-153: RF presented the photocopy evidence from the Branch Committee in Mexico who were still questioning the position that the Organization had taken, and asking for clarification. [Most of the photocopy evidence was already presented in PART 1.]

p.149 summary excerpts from Mexico Branch: "...although the law prohibits the military or members of the Draft Office to make out "Cartillas" by illegal means, such as payment, the great majority of the officials violate these laws. . . . Almost any person, under any pretext, can . . . pay an official . . . so that the document is given to them correctly legalized [completed/"liberated"]. In Mexico this is very common."

p.150-1  [It appears that the reason the Branch Committee wants a clarification in 1978 is because the illegal bribery situation now appears to be on more dangerous ground in the previous few months, and they have been following instructions from Brooklyn that have not been updated for nearly 20 years.] The Branch references an updated 1977 Mexican law, and quotes a new recent threat from the military on May 5, 1978 where this law is now going to be enforced, announcing to 100,000 draftees in front of the Mexican President, that "the army will not tolerate illegal operations to obtain Military Service 'Cartilla' . . . . so that in brief period of time the . . . unlawfulness will be eradicated . . . to obtain their 'Cartillas.' " The Branch admits that this is illegal, but easy to do, and that the card is useful and sometimes required for employment and travel.

p.151 The Branch also admits that most of the publishers who have it, many who are now elders and circuit overseers, illegally obtained the card that claims they supported the military. Note: "Publishers who wish to obtain a 'cartilla' go to one of the Draft Boards . . . then . . . they go to someone they know with influence or directly to an official. For this they have to pay a certain amount of money (according to what may be asked). In this way the publishers obtain their 'cartilla' or the majority of them have it."

p. 152 RF was assigned to visit Mexico and Latin American countries in November 1978 [he often got these assignments because he spoke Spanish after his years as a missionary under Trujillo in Dominican Republic] and the Mexican Branch assures him they are still following the counsel and direction from Brooklyn, but that it is specifically the situation in Malawi that has caused many brothers in Mexico to "feel disturbed in their conscience." They still follow the instruction from 1960 when they had questioned the action, where they also admitted that back in 1960 that it has been the custom for publishers to pay the "bribe" and many of them are congregation servants and circuit servants. [See PART 1 for this letter to N. H. Knorr dated February 4, 1960.]

p. 153-9 The Society's responses begin in a letter dated June 2 1960 included here, attached below, along with additional communications on the matter from the Branch and the Society Headquarters through 1969:

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

41 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

The only thing I can suggest is that you don't forget your medications.

The only medications I require these days are Rolaids, which I down by the bottlefull after conversing with certain ones.

Oh, wait. cool it. Someone else is speaking (shut up, TrueTom already, just shut up.)

#helpImtalkingandIcantstop

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

What? Run out of meds?

Rolaids are just flavored calcium powder, and too much will ossify the brain.

Symptoms:  People start talking to themselves, and getting answers.

 

.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The only medications I require these days are Rolaids, which I down by the bottlefull after conversing with certain ones.

Oh, wait. cool it. Someone else is speaking (shut up, TrueTom already, just shut up.)

#helpImtalkingandIcantstop

Sigh ... too late.

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

I'm guessing and hoping you would think otherwise if you were one of the Malawian sisters and then found out what happened with Mexico.

Please have a soul and compassion. 

Christians from Malawi know what happens in Mexico surely. This is no secret.

5 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

poor Malawian brothers had to go through brutal torture rape and murder

Who by?

5 hours ago, Micah Ong said:

They couldn't apply Romans 13:7

If you mean the brothers in Malawi, have you got a comment from any of them?

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

PART 3 of 4: [edited: PART 3 of 6]

[Note that the last segment of photocopies included a Mexican Branch letter from 1960, and a Society HQ response from 1960, then included 2 pages from another Mexican Branch letter from 1969 and a 1 page response from the Society's Brooklyn HQ in 1969. The last photocopy shown was an additional portion of the more current 1978 Mexican Branch letter that put all these materials together due to additional questions from brothers whose conscience was disturbed, and due to additional threats and promises from Mexican officials that the illegal bribery practice will be dealt with shortly.]

p.153: The June 2, 1960 letter from the Society in response to the February 1960 letter from the Branch to Knorr indicates that these bribes (called "money transactions") are OK because it's:

• no worse than what's done in other Latin American countries
• paying the bribe allows for freedom for theocratic activities
• it's the responsibility of the bribe-taking officials representing the nation, not the bribe-giving JW
• the bribe is not going to the military establishment but is pocketed by the person taking the bribe
• the brothers offering the bribes are using their own conscience to obtain continued freedom
• it's OK to let this smaller thing pass, as they can prove faithful in the larger test, when and if they were called upon real military situation  [Added comment: Note that this is the opposite of: (Luke 16:10) "The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much."]

But the same letter from the Society warns them:

• they are on their own if they get caught or get into trouble
• there will be no help from the Society if that happens
• if any brothers were to follow through on the commitment and support of the military that the card implies, then these brothers will be dealt with for lack of Christian neutrality.

p.155: For this portion, it is so central to the point R.Franz wishes to make, three or four full paragraphs will be quoted verbatim:

One reason why this information was so personally shocking to me was that, at the very time the letter stating that the Society had “no objection” if Witnesses in Mexico, faced with a call to military training, chose to “extricate themselves by a money payment,” there were scores of young men in the Dominican Republic spending precious years of their life in prison—because they refused the identical kind of training. Some, such as Leon Glass and his brother Enrique, were sentenced two or three times for their refusal, passing as much as a total of nine years of their young manhood in prison.

The Society’s president and vice president had travelled to the Dominican Republic during those years and had even been made visits to the prison where many of these men were detained. How the situation of these Dominican prisoners could be known by them and yet such a double standard be applied is incomprehensible to me.

Four years after that counsel was given to Mexico the first eruption of violent attacks against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Malawi took place (1964) and the issue of paying for a party card arose. The position taken by the Malawi Branch Office was that to do so would be a violation of Christian neutrality, a compromise unworthy of a genuine Christian. The world headquarters knew that this was the position taken. The violence subsided after a while and then broke out again in 1967, so fiercely that thousands of Witnesses were driven into flight from their homeland. The reports of horrible atrocities in increasing number came flooding in to the world headquarters. What effect did it have on the men leading the organization and their consciences as regards the position taken in Mexico?

In Malawi Witnesses were being beaten and tortured, women were being raped, homes and fields were being destroyed, and entire families were fleeing to other countries—determined to hold to the organization’s stand that to pay for a party card would be a morally traitorous act. At the same time, in Mexico, Witness men were bribing military officials to complete a certificate falsely stating that they had fulfilled their military service obligations. And when they went to the Branch Office, the staff there followed the Society’s counsel and said nothing to indicate in any way that this practice was inconsistent with organizational standards or the principles of God’s Word.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

AllenSmith:

I have noticed that hard facts are worthless to you, but approved agendas seem to be very important, even if they are irrational.

Thank you for calling to my mind many things I had completely forgotten ... I suppose the many years I associated  with people much smarter than me in the Engineering Profession has dulled my senses, to normal human thinking.

The paragraph you quoted CLEARLY states that POLITICIANS ... whose ALLEGIANCE was to Malawi, did all those mean and nasty, reprehensible things ... or did you miss that point?

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Politicians had to open every official speech by praising Banda and affirming his supremacy. He was always to be addressed by his official title, “His Excellency the Life President Dr. Hastings Kamuzu Banda, the Ngwazi.” Any speech that failed to do so could be taken as a sign of disloyalty and could result in dismissal from the party. Schoolchildren were required to regularly express their adulation of Banda, and meetings in nonpolitical contexts often started with words of praise for the leader, while images of the president looked down from the walls of all businesses and offices [p/46]

NOWHERE in your reference is a Party Card addressed.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Basketweaving?