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Did Christians in the 1st century disfellowship / shun wrongdoers?

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Did Christians in the 1st century disfellowship / shun wrongdoers?

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Was this the 1st Century?

1 Cor.5:11: "stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man"

2John 10-11:"If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.
 

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Wrong Question:

Was this INSTITUTIONAL disfellowshipping against as it is practiced today ... destroying whole family relationships, up and down generational lines, and across extended families?

NO!   .... That would be as the Russians view it ... an EXTREME view ... on a slippery slope to  societal ruin.

There may be mitigating circumstances that Elders cannot even comprehend ... or wrap their minds around.

If I unrepentedly shot my mother to death , I should be disfellowshipped forever .. but by WHO?

If I unrepentedly  shot her because she was burning to death in a car fire, and there was no way to get her out ... all sane people would exonerate me ... except Pharisee types divorced from reality.

The world is full of INFINITE VARIETY, and NO ONE can evaluate it all correctly.

Justice we get from Jehovah God ... all else is due process .... ONLY!

Institutionally, we should get out of the judge, jury, and "execution" business, leaving punishment to Jehovah, and the properly trained consciences of those professing True Christianity, as individuals.

OR WHY HAVE A TRAINED CONSCIENCE AT ALL! ?

Institutional disfellowishipping only has one REAL purpose ... the way it is handled today ... to inspire fear of rebellion against the authority that has self-appointed themselves into as much ultimate power as the State will allow ... for NOW.

Watchtower 1930 apostasy remark.jpg

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Guest Indiana
On 6/20/2017 at 2:34 PM, Outta Here said:

1 Cor.5:11

How did  early Christians applied this Scripture? Was it the same way as it is done in the JW families, congregations? 

 

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2019-07-31_233431.jpg

The "Early Christians" were not a monolithic block of people who did everything the same way, or for the same reasons.  They did things according to their consciences, which were ALL DIFFERENT, because of natural intelligence, or the lack thereof ...or education, tradition, local customs, and the list of variables is infinite..

The fantasy of the "monolithic minority" still exists today in the political world, as clueless  politicians think that Blacks, Hispanics, Chinese, etc., all think and act the same way, and do whatever they do for the same reasons.

They don't.

The short answer is "Why ask me ? ... I don't have Polaroids!".

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3 hours ago, Indiana said:

How did  early Christians applied this Scripture?

Isn't the scripture clear? They would banish, treat as tax collector, avoid, hand to Satan, stop keeping company, not even eating with, remove, neither greet nor receive into their homes or say a greeting to. Do you need more?

Ezra 10:8."he would be banished from the congregation of the exiled people." (For comparison).

Matthew 18:17 "let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector"

Rom.16:17 "keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them."

1Cor.5:5 "hand such a man over to Satan"

1Cor.5:9, 11 "stop keeping company", "not even eating with such a man."

1Cor.5:13 "Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”"

1Tim.1:18 "Hy·me·naeʹus and Alexander are among these, and I have handed them over to Satan so that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme."

As stated above: 2John v11

On 6/20/2017 at 9:34 PM, Outta Here said:

do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

So work it out and apply it, if you are a Christian that is. It doesn't have any application to those who are not.

Oh, and remember though,  there is a purpose in it as alluded to by Jesus at Matt.18:11 "If he listens to you, you have gained your brother", and directed by Paul at 2Cor.5:6-7  "This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man; now you should instead kindly forgive and comfort him".

You should be able to work an application process from this.

 

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. @Indiana 

Excommunication was strong, firm and strict concerning the early church - a cut off from the church community. There were notable figures who had been kicked out of the church until the day falsehood evidently bombarded the church later on (beyond first century). More so, even in the days of Israel, people were cut off from the camp.

Also I suggest you two take a read of this: http://shamelesspopery.com/biblical-excommunication/

There are several forms of Excommunication, however only ONE is true, and only ONE is practiced by those who understand it.

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@Matthew9969 And Excommunication originates from the Bible, as is such practice had been entrusted to the church, thus, becomes an ability used by the church concerning sinners who commit wrong, as is with an example given should someone wish to come back to the church.

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On 8/1/2019 at 8:08 AM, Outta Here said:

Isn't the scripture clear? They would banish, treat as tax collector, avoid, hand to Satan, stop keeping company, not even eating with, remove, neither greet nor receive into their homes or say a greeting to. Do you need more?

Ezra 10:8."he would be banished from the congregation of the exiled people." (For comparison).

Matthew 18:17 "let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector"

Rom.16:17 "keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them."

1Cor.5:5 "hand such a man over to Satan"

1Cor.5:9, 11 "stop keeping company", "not even eating with such a man."

1Cor.5:13 "Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”"

1Tim.1:18 "Hy·me·naeʹus and Alexander are among these, and I have handed them over to Satan so that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme."

As stated above: 2John v11

Dear Sir, you list here many verses from first century Christian writers and only one verse is from Jesus. It is interesting to me that in Mat 18:17 Jesus never commanded Shunning, Ignoring, Avoiding and similar as it is practice in JW Church. Jesus said; let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector". 

Now our task is to found out HOW Jesus TREATED such persons?! People of nations, and other that was "Questionable" (tax collectors, sinners, etc): 

 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. - Mark 2

One of them, when he saw he was healed, came back, praising God in a loud voice. 16 He threw himself at Jesus’ feet and thanked him—and he was a Samaritan. - Luke 17

The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a]) - John 4

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”.... Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment. - Mat 15l

 

When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed,suffering terribly.” Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” - Mat 8

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”  - Luke 10

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[b] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you  doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?4Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. - Mat 5

By this examples, Bible verses are also CLEAR how to treat people who are not of JW sort. Once again, how to treat individuals who are not any longer JW member - "let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector"

 Just as. Nothing about all those animosity feelings and shunning described by Bible Writers. Well, who would you Listen, Obey and Imitate? JESUS? or Bible Writers?

Well, we need MORE ANGELS of view :))))

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      Here is the situation .....  a person REPORTED to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused, and NOT convicted ( ... because he is a fugitive from Justice ...) .....

      Apparently he was at one time in a "Position Of Authority", which possibly alludes to his being an  "Elder", and he may have relocated to another State or even another Country. Possibly using an alias.
      The  various Congregation Elders cannot find him, the Society cannot find him, and the U.S. Marshal's Service cannot find him.
      Not having any indication to the contrary ... at least from the information given in the pseudo-Wanted Poster shown above, he is possibly still officially one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      Whether he is or not, his bad example raises an interesting  aspect of trying to figure out how the disfellowshipping "system" protocol actually works.
      Can any of the Congregations  he went to disfellowship him without his being present  to answer charges ?
      ... and SHOULD he be?
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
      I was a teenager in the 60's,  and I had a good friend that on Scout camping trips I introduced to the Truth, and I was there in NYC at Yankee Stadium when he was baptized as one of Jehovah's Witness. He was a true "straight arrow", and pioneered, always dressed immaculately, and eventually over the years became an Elder.
      One night, at an Elder's Meeting, he announced to the other Elders that he was Jesus Christ, and that his mother was the virgin Mary, and of course he was disfellowshipped.
      He spent several years in private mental institutions until his insurance money ran out, then in a State institution for several years.
      He called me up, and told me the story, and I told him I was the Great Turtleman, and every November, before I hibernated, I rose from the swamp and gave toys to all the good little boys and girls.  I was just pulling his leg, but he was dead serious.
      Later, he was in England, while his wife was trying without success to get him to take his medications, and fell over a balcony at Heathrow Airport and got killed.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      from 2016 the year that they started the return to Jehovah brochure.
    • By Jack Ryan
      a heartbreaking video has emerged online showing how far reaching and deeply ingrained this shunning policy is; a video showing JehovahÂ’s Witnesses clapping in applause as a little girl announces she is shunning her own sister.
      Little Melody, and the sister she doesnÂ’t have.
      The incident appears to take place at one of this years Watchtower conventions. The video was posted on youtube by the girls parents, apprently eager to share with the world how they had trained one of their children to pretend her sister didnÂ’t exist purely on the basis of religious dogma.
      The video was comment-protected once viewers began expressing concern and displeasure at what they saw, but at the time of writing the video itself is still live and can be viewed below on the family’s youtube page. (EDIT 11/09/2017 – The video has been removed, but we have linked to an alternate site which has a copy)

      t shows a little girl called Melody. She is ten years old, and was apparently baptised when she was 9. This means that Melody is now committed to the religion for life, and will be shunned if she ever leaves, or “unrepentantly” breaks any of its vast array of detailed rules.
      During the interview, Melody explains that she has a sister who was “disfellowshipped,” which is the Witness term for one who is excommunicated; someone who was thrown out of the faith rather than leaving of their own accord. We are not told the reason for the disfellowshipping, but one can be subjected to it for a wide range of reasons such as pre-marital sex, celebrating Christmas or birthdays, voting, taking a blood transfusion, joining the military, or simply questioning any of the doctrines of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
      Melody states that her sister was trying to contact her, and asking her to stay in contact despite Watchtower decreeing that she be shunned. Remember, MelodyÂ’s sister has probably lost all her family and friends at this point; everyone she ever knew and loved.
      Melody admits that she misses and loves her sister, but states that she was afraid that if she didnÂ’t cut her sister off completely, she might be tempted to keep some form of relationship going. Thus, she has decided to shun her completely, as Watchtower demands. She claims that this was to protect her relationship with Jehovah.
      The audience of JehovahÂ’s Witnesses watching this announcement applaud.
      Source
    • By Jack Ryan
      This comes from the final talk at the Birmingham, AL Convention. Herd talks kind of low and there is some background noise, so here is a transcript starting at about 1:25.
      I thought this was interesting because it doesn't appear to be in the talk outline. Admittedly, I just skimmed through the outline quickly, so it might be in there. Either way, there is something twisted about comparing the shunning of children to casting out demons from heaven.
      Edit: For those wondering, this talk is from August 5. The part before when the transcript starts is Herd talking about King Asa removing his grandmother from her position.
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    • Here's a start. But I can't get into Daniel 4 without something like the following as a "preamble:"   "What Does Bible Chronology Indicate About the Year 1914?" The Bible’s answer I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:4) For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. (Romans 8:19) Bible chronology is a topic that has intrigued many Bible readers for centuries. The desire to see Jesus return has driven many to focus on combinations of Biblical numbers and dates so that these combinations will usually point to Jesus' return in their own lifetime, or at least the very near future. Now that we are 2,000 years from the time that Jesus walked the earth, preached, and died, there are very few ways to manipulate prophetic numbers so they will reach our own time period. There are the 1,260 days of Revelation and Daniel, which are also called "three and one-half times." And there are some other periods mentioned in Daniel including the 1,290 days, 1,335 days, and 2,300 evenings and mornings. The common method for making such periods end in our own day has been to turn each day into a year. But this leaves us in the "middle of nowhere" if we were to count back from today. For example, 2020 minus 1260 brings us to 760 C.E. somewhere in the Middle Ages. Adding 1260 to the date of Jesus' birth, baptism, death or resurrection would similarly bring us to dates in the 13th century C.E. Using the number 2300 from any event in the lifetime of Jesus life would point to a time nearly 300 years in the future, and this would have very little appeal to a Bible scholar or anyone with an eager expectation. And pointing back 2,300 years from today takes us to 280 B.C.E., another point that is nearly 300 years before Jesus and as much as 300 years after any major event in the kingdom of Israel or Judea.  Other "clever" methods have been used to reach modern times. In the 18th and 19th centuries it was common for Protestants to point back only 1,260 years to reach some seemingly important events in Catholic history. (For example, 1800 CE minus 1,260 years brings us to 540 CE., when the Holy Roman Empire was losing its grip on Europe.) Another method was to look at the number of years between the time of Jesus and a "modern" date, and then look at that same period of time in the B.C.E. period, looking for a potentially significant event. In other words, if it were nearly 1843 CE, for example, they would look to see if anything interesting might have happened in 1843 B.C.E. If this method pointed near to anything significant (like the birth of Jacob/Israel or the death of Jacob/Israel) then there was only a need to adjust a few years in either direction to find many other potentially significant dates that were "exactly" a certain number of years before events in Jesus' life. Counting forward that same number of years might be expected to result in dates of parallel significance in their own modern times. A natural goal would be to find a Biblical time period that was either closer to 2,000 to reach events in Jesus' lifetime on earth, or as high as 2,600 or more to reach back to the end of the kings of Israel or Judea. In the 19th century, several writers and preachers began looking for just such a period of time, and they found it in the "seven times." After all, if "three and one-half times" was 1,260 days, then "seven times" would a period that was twice that long: 2,520 days, i.e., 2520 years. This was an ideal way to reach from the 19th century back to the final kings of Jerusalem. Some found that 2,520 reached back to King Josiah and found significance there. Some found it reached back to the time when Babylon began attacking the kings in Jerusalem and found some significance there. Ideally, it would seem more significant if the event were even more spectacular, such as the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple which almost all scholars in the 19th century were dating to about 586 BCE or so. 100 years later, this is still considered about the most accurate date by almost all scholars of that period, especially after thousands more pieces of evidence have come to light. Any date 2,520 years from the destruction of the Temple (the end of the line of kings in Jerusalem) was too far in the future for most Bible chronologists of the 19th century. It reached as far as 1934, which was 90 years after the peak time of speculation in the United States: 1844. But after 1844 had failed, there were still small groups who had continued their speculation. One of these groups had focused on a version of the BCE-to-CE "parallel dispensations" method and had a chronology system that therefore already included 1844, 1874, 1878, 1881 and 1914. With only a 20-year adjustment to the time when all scholars were pointing to 586 BC, they decided to use the date 606 BC for Jerusalem's destruction and therefore made it fit the 1914 date which was already part of their chronology system.
    • Friday, Dec. 6 — crypto markets have continued to rebound after a sharp sell-off on Dec. 4, with Bitcoin (BTC) briefly reclaiming $7,500. The bullish momentum is observed across all the top 20 cryptocurrencies by market capitalization, with just Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Litecoin (LTC) and Unus Sed Leo (LEO) seeing some losses at the time of writing. Meanwhile, Chainlink (LINK) and Cosmos (ATOM) are reporting the biggest gains among the top 20 over the past 24 hours, both up around 4%, according to Coin360. Market visualization. Source: Coin360 After trading around $7,400 price point for the better part of the day, Bitcoin spiked to hit an intraday high of $7,576 in a matter of minutes. At the time of publication, the major cryptocurrency is up 1%, trading at $7,450. Despite renewed upward movement, Bitcoin is still down over 3.5% on the past seven days as it failed to retest $7,800 on Nov. 30. Over the past 30 days, Bitcoin is still down around 20% from $9,286. Major U.S. financial regulator approves a new BTC futures-focused fund The new spike in Bitcoin’s price comes alongside news that the United States Securities and Exchange Commission approved another Bitcoin derivatives fund. As reported by Cointelegraph, BTC futures-focused NYDIG Bitcoin Strategy Fund is now allowed to offer its shares to institutional investors. The upward movement on crypto markets may be caused by the approaching Christmas holidays, according to a new report from analysts at crypto exchange SFOX. According to the researchers, Bitcoin searches on Google usually peak before holidays, not after. As such, on Nov. 28 — Thanksgiving in the U.S. — Bitcoin saw three consecutive days of price growth, the firm stated. Meanwhile, Twitter crypto personality Bitcoin Macro recently predicted that 2020 will be a “mind blowing year for crypto,” while “2019 was, and still is, the year to accumulate.” ... The total market capitalization accounts for $202.5 billion at the time of publication. Keep track of top crypto markets in real time here Speaking at ELEV8CON in Las Vegas on Dec. 10, founder and CEO of Celsius Network Alex Mashinsky said that there is a war brewing between centralized and decentralized networks. "The centralization of the Internet by companies such as Facebook and Google has created a distorted reality where fake news and blatant lies get the same treatment as documented truths,” said Mashinsky. Mashinsky said that the rise of centralized social media networks has resulted in an increase in fake news, causing a great deal of confusion regarding the basic facts of issues and events. Mashinsky also noted that fake news stories tend to increase reader engagement, which is then gets converted into huge profits for companies like Facebook and Google. “If such lies bring engagement (which is immediately converted into huge profits) then they deserve to be pushed and promoted by the world’s best algorithms, which work tirelessly to extract every dollar out of them. No need to worry about our democracy or human rights, corporate mega-profits can cure all ills if we just issue PR that we donated 1% of what we made to a school or the disabled,” said Mashinsky. A blockchain-based solution Mashinsky told Cointelegraph that a blockchain-based data platform is the only solution capable of combating fake news. A system such as this can verify the identity of users and the authenticity of data, bringing a much-needed layer of transparency to the online world. Mashinsky mentioned that a project like EOS Voice, which uses blockchain technology to record the inner operations of its network, will be one of the first decentralized applications to bring trust to the internet. EOS Voice is a social media platform that was unveiled by EOS creator Bock.One. The beta version is scheduled to launch on Feb.14, 2020. Unlike centralized social media networks that extract personal user information without permission, all operations across EOS Voice are recorded on the blockchain. Moreover, while Mashinsky noted that social networks are vulnerable to fake news due to the fact that anyone can post whatever they please, EOS Voice users must verify their identities. This provides a way to decrease fake accounts and illegitimate content, as everything posted can be traced back to specific people. Yet while platforms like EOS Voice are being brought to market, Mashinsky pointed out that gaining user traction remains a challenge. “Platforms designed to protect us and act in our best interest already exist. We are just waiting for 7 billion people to discover them. When they do, the entire internet will become an application on the blockchain” said Mashinsky. Blockchain economics To his point, Mashinsky presented a slide during his keynote entitled, “Blockchain Economics.” Written on the slide was “E=MC2”. In this case, E stood for Ethereum, M stood for members, and C stood for Consensus. “If you want the Ethereum blockchain to ever be valuable you need members and consensus,” explained Mashinsky. Mashinsky ended his keynote by explaining that we already went through the blockchain hype curve, but that we still need to cross the chasm. He noted that stable coins are a great stepping stone to get people to understand the potential of cryptocurrency. He also recommended to stop using centralized networks entirely: “The amazing thing is that if we stop this addiction, Facebook will lose their power and disappear just as fast as they got hold of it. How do I know that? I helped make the old phone companies that charged $700 a month to disappear. Now, it’s free because [Voice over IP] allows us to take the power back and leave these toll collectors behind. It is up to us to decide if the future will be more centralized or decentralized.” https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-briefly-breaks-above-7-500-after-sec-approves-btc-fund
    • I was there about a month ago, having flown into Orlando for the wedding of my nephew. I arrived near closing time, and was only able to walk around the outside of the fort. But I had just before came from Ft Matanzas, about ten miles south, party closed due to hurricane damage. The next day I went to Ft Caroline, outside of Jacksonville. Ft Caroline was French. They send a raiding party to the Spanish Ft Matanzas, but the party got upended in a squall. When the Spanish discovered that, they took those French soldiers captive and slaughtered most of them. (Matanzas literally means ‘slaughter’—landmarks, businesses, and roads all around that area are named Matanzas this or Matanzas that.) The docent at Ft Caroline told me the Spanish commander sent a letter to the French king saying the prisoners were killed, not because they were French, but because they were Protestant. The few captured French soldiers that were Catholic were spared.
    • Hahahahahaha! Thanks Space Merchant, I needed that! It is so much fun watching snowflake liberal's heads explode all over the ceiling at the slightest thing that is actually funny! It is like watching the movie "Mars Attacks", when granny is listening to the radio in the nursing home, and yodeling comes on the programming. CNN was once my very favorite Cable News Network, for their superb coverage of the First Gulf War, but now they are pathetic, and a comedy show of utter and total cluelessness.. If they did not have contracts to be in most of USA Airports, supplying equipment and programming, I suspect ONLY Democrats who consider it the "Clinton News Network", (.. which CNN is ...) would watch it.   I downloaded the CNN video from the YouTube link ... Don Lemon's reaction is PRICELESS!  
    • One can only open someones eyes if they are really searching for the truth.  I apologize if I have become too skeptical about the motives of people who contribute on this forum.  There is enough evidence here to suggest that I may be correct. 
    • Jesus said they will know my disciples because the love among them. What kind of love? The love of Jesus which is self-sacrificing love.  Yes, I am prepared to give my life for my brothers. This is love in action. During the Rwanda genocide brothers hid other families from the other tribe under their homes in holes..... if they were found out they faced immediate death by machetti  or gun.... this is self-sacrificing love amongst our African brothers. Do the other churches in USA teach this kind of love?  I bet your grear great grandmother who lived then (if she lived in USA) was a great racist.... just indicating that historical context does matter. 
    • True.  There are things we do not have control over. Kreutzers disease is a result of cannibalism..... feeding animals their own kind. 
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