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James Thomas Rook Jr.

What is a Christian Man's MORAL responsibility to protect his own life, or that of his immediate or spiritual family?

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James Thomas Rook Jr. -
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TTH:

That is very cute TTH ...  aaaaand it recommends your skill and imagination as a writer of novels.

You should excerpt that, and build a novel around it.

It has real potential to sell a LOT ... as extrapolational  comedy.

It would have to be a novel such as "Alice in Wonderland", or "Gulliver's Travels" as it has NOTHING to do with reality.

... absolutely NOTHING AT ALL.

But it is good writing, as a macabre visual comedy!

Oh, and by the way .. um ... people do cross streets by themselves, you know.

...... at least,  you are 100% consistent!

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9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

uh ... depends on the hug.

"... Is that your gun, or are you just happy to see me?"

 

I know.....my question just begged for that famous line. But I was actually being serious xD. You see we don't do that gun thing in Europe. For starters, it would be very difficult to conceal one, especially in the summer, as most bothers take their jacket off at the meeting (no air conditioning). However, I do realise, from watching dozens of westerns, that a true American cowboy doesn't go anywhere without his cowboy hat and gun. Hence I guess not all brothers in America are cowboys :)

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I try to not upset people unnecessarily, and there are even holsters that are concealable .. many different types and styles.  Google IWB Holsters (Inside the waisteband) .

I do not expect to encounter a "fast draw" situation, as I pay attention to my surroundings, and an extra three seconds seems not that important to me.

Like a fire extinguisher ( I have six), or a first aid kit (I have several of different sizes).

I hope at the end of my life the whole exercise will have been a complete waste of time and money ... merely a hobby, in retrospect.

 

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You know, there are actually things to like about JTR. He is not ambitious. He is not proud, at least no more so than anyone. He is a straight shooter. He uses (perhaps) his real name and photo, which is bold. (though I do wonder if he can possibly be so blunt in the KH as he is online - how much of a double life is he leading, if any?) He probably is much like Mickey Spillane in many ways. If you could just get him to lay off on the 3 John 10 thingie, you could almost plant a kiss on his leathery mug.

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53 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I do not expect to encounter a "fast draw" situation, as I pay attention to my surroundings, and an extra three seconds seems not that important to me.

Almost .... I might need that three seconds after all.

30 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

you could almost plant a kiss on his leathery mug.

 

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On May 28, 2017, I posted the following:, which was followed by two pages of comments:

On 5/27/2017 at 9:54 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

SCENARIO:  You are at a packed Kingdom Hall on Memorial night, and ten minutes into the remembrance talk, six masked people with weapons enter the Kingdom Hall and begin shooting everyone they can, without any conversation.  

You are shot in the left side of your face and most of those teeth are gone.

Before you know what is going on twelve Brothers and Sisters have been shot, screaming and panic ensues, and there is blood and bodies and brains all over, and the shooting continues.

Would it be fitting for a Brother  to use his handgun to return fire on the murderers to try and save his own life, or the lives of his Brothers and Sisters?

Or, in PubSpeak ... "Would it be fitting for a Christian to keep a firearm, such as a handgun or a rifle, for protection against other humans?" ( July 2017 Watchtower )

This raises MANY Theocratic, moral, ethical, legal, and Societial policy questions ... all of which have REAL answers. 

What is the RIGHT thing for a responsible Christian to do?

Today this is the news.   

 

NO ONE IN THAT CHURCH HAD THE MEANS AND WILL TO RETURN FIRE ... It was not a house of God... it was a SLAUGHTER HOUSE.

... pssst .. and to forestall the next moronic observation .. I have an iron-clad alibi.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Today this is the news.

There must be a few other ways to gain protection from gunmen, other than just saying we will allow people to come into a church with guns. This is terrible news, but it was by allowing someone to come into the church with a gun that the tragedy began. People trained to use guns correctly can also end up misusing guns. Perhaps it's just as good to look into what is different in countries that have never had a mass shooting tragedy outside a military circumstance. If we can't follow those examples, then every public place may need to hire an armed guard or two, and put in gun/metal detectors at each entrance.

Just started looking at the past news from this area, and looking at the satellite images and photos of this town. Looks like it's possible that upwards of 10% of this town were killed or injured.

 

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OK JWI:

Lets say it is YOUR job to be  official "hall monitor/security" at a Kingdom Hall ... you are sitting in a folding chair at the entrance to the main auditorium, and someone walks through the door with guns blazing, and he somehow misses killing you with the first 15 shots ... You calmly walk up to him and say  " I am sorry sir, but we do not allow people to come into our church with guns", before he shoots you in the throat, and completely severs your spinal column with a bullet.

You have about 25 seconds to live, and the shooter walks over your paralyzed body and your pool of blood and continues firing. After you realize you will never move again, and your eyesight fades to black .. before you die your hearing still works for the next 15 seconds ... and you hear the screaming and terror of the Brothers and Sisters as they are systematically murdered, maimed and ruined for life.

Fade to black ..... you are DEAD.

If you had armed paid security guards AND metal detectors at the Kingdom Hall it would make no difference at all as the shooter came in and "sucker punched" the security guards by shooting them to death in the first 3 seconds.

Lets assume hypothetically, that a Brother was armed at the Hall, as Jesus' Apostles were at the "Memorial" and Passover, with the weapons of their day, and he sprang up and returned fire and made the shooter hesitate his murder spree, but... the Brother accidentally killed two Witnesses while the shooter was killing dozens.  They just  got caught in the crossfire.  The Brother Killed two by accident ... and prevented 26 from being murdered, and 35 from being badly wounded.

Your scenarios do not work.

They are based on wishful thinking, and assumptions NOT a part of contemporary reality.  

This Saturday Susan and I were  in a CPR/First Aid/Blood-borne Pathogens class where the EMT instructor said that when you dial 911... the average response time IS FOURTEEN MINUTES.

The theoretical Armed Brother could respond in about six SECONDS, and his bullets responding at approximately 1200 feet per SECOND.

The reality is that signs that say 'THIS IS A NO GUN ZONE" ...... If they were not so incredibly dangerous in notifying "Bad Guys" they can expect NO real resistance ... do as you will ... would be Hilarious!

NOTHING can stop Bad Guys with guns ... except Good Guys with guns.  If someone is not afraid of dying, there is no defense without eternal vigilance, and superior firepower, and pure dumb luck.

And having a Babylonian Police Officer put HIS life on the line for you when at the same time you refuse to defend yourself is complete and total moral bankruptcy.

.... just another brick in the wall ... of Justice being nothing but words, and common sense being systematically eliminated from the human gene pool by Snowflake political correctness.

JW Weapons Ban    CRAP 400   .jpg

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22 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You have about 25 seconds to live, and the shooter walks over your paralyzed body and your pool of blood and continues firing. After you realize you will never move again, and your eyesight fades to black .. before you die your hearing still works for the next 15 seconds ... and you hear the screaming and terror of the Brothers and Sisters as they are systematically murdered, maimed and ruined for life.

Fade to black ..... you are DEAD.

This did happen at a Baptist church, remember. They must have disfellowshipped someone.

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12 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This did happen at a Baptist church, remember. They must have disfellowshipped someone.

TTH:

You are making assumptions NOT in evidence ...

And, as usual, COMPLETELY ignoring the underlying principles of why this is even being discussed.

At least you are , as always ... 100% consistent.

Seagull-Free-Zones  600   .jpg

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      Kingdom Ministry School
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      2015 Amendments included in this 2012 printing of the "Shepherd the Flock of God"
      2014 Letters to Bodies of Elders

      July 13, 2014 Letter to Body of Elders (regarding appointment and deletion of elders and ministerial servants)
      2005 - Organized to do Jehovah's Will
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      1991 - ks-91E * "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock"
      2010 - ks-10E * 'Shepherd the Flock of God' (Revised version)
      1977 - "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock"
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      Loesch, Barr in the middle, Barry in the foreground
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      Luke 10 v 21  In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.
      This seems to show that 'higher education' was not needed to learn, understand and teach, the truth from God, at that time. 
      It seems to be a well know thing within the JW Org and by people outside of same, that JW's are 'told' not to aim for higher education. I say told, although some will say strongly advised, with a possible caution of being disfellowshipped. 
      Now I've noticed on here recently that deep conversation about many things has been and is taking place. Politics earthwide. religious beliefs earthwide and the latest thing seems to be Evolution (from a very deep standpoint ). ( These things were never taught to me at school. )
      I left school at 15 years old, as soon as I was able, for reasons previously mentioned. Here in UK now teenagers have to remain in education until they are 18. The three years from 15 to 18 seem to me to be almost 'higher education', but compulsory.  How much they learn at school now I've no idea. 
      My feelings are, and yes ok i cannot put proof to these feelings, but, my feelings are, that all forms of higher education are advised against by the GB and the JW Org. Some of you may have some proof of this in writing. So, where does this leave JW's ?
      If a young person leaves school to go into full time 'service' ministry, they do not get a higher education. Their 'basic' education may have been just that, very basic. They are then not 'qualified' to talk to others on a higher education level, and this might even be to the point of not understanding such things as are being discussed on here lately. 
      ( Much of what is being discussed leaves me miles behind. I'm a very simple person. Plus at 69 I forget more than i learn. Yes I do write lots of notes and have books for recording different things, but the mind boggles. )
      With respect for those I knew and loved in the past, within my ex congregation, many of them were 'simple country folk'. And I think Tom said about not having the time or inclination to do research online or or otherwise. So let us go back to the scripture at the top. 
      So many questions. Does God reveal more to those of a lesser education ?  Is higher education and greater knowledge a disadvantage when wanting to serve God properly?
      Or is it that those of higher education are too stubborn to learn God's way ?  Too proud maybe ?   
      There are many things that the Bible doesn't tell us. is that deliberate ? Does God want to keep it simple for us ? So, should we pursue more knowledge about worldly things ? 
      A problem may occur when talking to others about God, in that they may have more knowledge on a certain subject than we do and therefore believe something different. Should we then educate ourselves to their level on the same subject, or just pass them by ?  Bearing in mind the scripture at the top of this page. 
      There has to be a balance of course. But my feelings are that the GB would like JW's to be educated only by the Watchtower studies and by the 'workbook' evening meeting studies. And of course by personal Bible reading.   But do JW's do as they are told in this respect or do a lot of them 'educate themselves', or take further education elsewhere ? 
       
       
    • By TheWorldNewsOrg
      People who lied, betrayed someone or committed other immoral act begin to perceive what is good or bad in another way.
    • By The Librarian
      All posts tagged 'Geoffrey Jackson" 
      Brother Jackson started pioneering in February 1971 in Tasmania, the island state of Australia. In June 1974, he married Jeanette (Jenny). Shortly thereafter, they were appointed to serve as special pioneers. From 1979 to 2003, they served as missionaries in Tuvalu, Samoa, and Fiji—island nations in the South Pacific. While in the islands, Brother and Sister Jackson also contributed much to the work of translating Bible literature. Beginning in 1992, Brother Jackson served on the Branch Committee in Samoa, and from 1996, on the Branch Committee in Fiji. In April 2003, he and Jenny became part of the United States Bethel family and began to work in the Translation Services Department. Soon thereafter, Brother Jackson was made a helper to the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body. (See w06 3/15 p. 26) Tragically, Geoffrey's wife Jenny lost her battle with cancer and died 22 December 2009 at the age of 54. Geoffrey has since remarried. He is one of the youngest members of the Governing Body, born in 1955.   Recent news:
      Geoffrey Jackson testifies at the Australian Royal Commission 

      Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson Declines to Appear Before Australian Royal Commission and then is ordered to appear on Friday August 14th at 11:00am Australian time.
       
      Milshon Masara (L) posing for a picture with guest speaker Geoffrey Jackson and his current wife, Loraini Jackson. 

      Taken at the Zimbabwe 2014 International Convention - They came, saw and made Zim richer.
       

      Geoffrey and Rae Jackson

      Loraini Jackson is from Tazmania according to this talk: 
      Related Items:
      Talks by Geoffrey Jackson
      When Is Armageddon Coming? - Encouraging clip of a talk by Geoffrey Jackson of the Governing Body

      Talks translated into Spanish
      Enseñe a sus hijos a amar el Reino de Dios - Teach your children to love God's Kingdom
      Geoffrey Jackson knows how to dance and party!


      Books by Geoffrey Jackson available for sale on Amazon.com
       

      International delegates running into Geoffrey and Loraini Jackson in Harare, Zimbabwe.   
    • By Jack Ryan
      While chanting: Listen, Obey, and be blessed
    • By TrueTomHarley
      How many of them do you want answered?
      We went round and round on a prior thread and you just repackage your questions and run them through again.
      The verse says: ‘Taste and see that Jehovah is good.’ If you tasted and saw that he was bad, what can I say? Check your taste buds. But you can just as easily say it to me.
      It may be that you should be praying to The LORD. It is the GB that brings God’s name to the fore, nearly everyone else seeks to bury it, and you have made clear that you don’t trust the GB as far as you can spit.
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      As the one-year anniversary of Chester Bennington's death approaches, his widow Talinda has compiled a list of all official memorial services worldwide. "There are so many beautiful memorials planned all around the WORLD in honor of Chester," she wrote in a tweet. "I wanted to share them with you."
      She shared a link to a Google document that gives further context around the list and #LPMemorial2018. "The main purpose of this hashtag is to find the memorials specific to the one year of Chester’s passing, but also to simply separate upcoming events from the past ten months, as the hashtag took off beyond our expectations,"
      Read more: http://loudwire.com/chester-bennington-every-one-year-anniversary-memorial-service/

    • By Jack Ryan
      I suspect @James Thomas Rook Jr. made this one... LOL
    • By Jack Ryan
      Did You Know?
      You can openly and publicly question if the President of the United States is fit for office. You can question his policies, his statements, and his character. Your family and friends will not be taken away from you.
      You can openly and publicly question the policies, fitness for office, statements, and character of governors, senators, congressmen, judges, and various other politicians and leaders in the United States. Your family and friends will not be taken away from you.
      If you believe in a god, you can pray to your god questioning his authority, ability to rule, his decisions, and his purpose. When you open your eyes, you will find that your family and friends have not and will not be taken away from you.
      Jesus had his authority questioned many times. (Matt. 21: 23-27) According to the Bible, he would have had the power to punish those questioning him. Yet, he did nothing to them. He harmed no one physically or emotionally.
      You can confidentially question the ability to lead, the validity, the teachings, the doctrines and policies of the Governing Body to only two family members or close companions.  Your family and friends WILL be taken away from you. You will be labeled as dead, evil, and mentally diseased. You can and will likely lose all the social connections and relationships you have developed over a lifetime.
      Only absolute dictators take away the rights of those they rule if their authority is questioned. Look at the examples of Stalin, Hitler, Bashar al-Assad, and Kim Jong Un. 
      The Governing Body today will attend court hearings in other countries rejoicing when freedoms are granted to their followers. They will organize letter writing campaigns to lobby for religious freedoms of Jehovah's Witnesses. They will take legal arguments to the highest courts to fight for the rights of the organization that they govern. Yet, all it takes for you to lose all of your freedoms to be with your very own family is the admission to enough witnesses that you no longer believe the Governing Body are chosen by God and have authority over you. 
      Did You Know? The Governing Body will fight tooth and nail for their own perceived freedoms, but they have no problems taking away your own freedoms and declaring you dead if you dare to question them.
    • By The Librarian
      Part of a series on: Jehovah's Witnesses

      The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the ruling council of Jehovah's Witnesses[1] based in Brooklyn, New York. The body assumes responsibility for formulating policy and doctrines, producing material for publications and conventions, and administering its worldwide branch office staff.[2][3] Members of the Governing Body say they are followers of Christ rather than religious leaders.[4] One member explained the Governing Body as being "Guardians of the Doctrine" when under oath in Australia in 2015.[119]
      Its size has varied, from seven (2010–2012)[5] to eighteen (1974–1980)[6]members.[7][8] As of October 2012, there are eight members.[5] Members of the Governing Body are not elected; membership is only possible by invitation of existing members.[9]Updated: Current list of the Governing Body as of October 2014
      History

      The Governing Body in 1975
      Since its incorporation in 1884, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has been directed by a president and board of directors. Until January 1976, the president exercised complete control of doctrines, publications and activity of the Watch Tower Society and the religious denominations with which it was connected—the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses.[10][11][12]
      When the Society's second president, J.F. Rutherford, encountered opposition from directors in 1917, he dismissed them; in 1925 he overruled the Watch Tower Society's editorial committee—selected by Charles Taze Russell to have editorial control of The Watch Tower after his death—when it opposed publication of an article that altered doctrines on Bible chronology related to 1914. In 1931, the editorial committee was dissolved.[13][14] 
      as of 2013
         
      In 1943 The Watchtower described the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society as the "legal governing body" of anointed Jehovah's Witnesses.[15] A year later, in an article opposing the democratic election of congregation elders, the magazine said the appointment of congregation servants was the duty of "a visible governing body under Jehovah God and his Christ."[16] For several years, the role and specific identity of the governing body remained otherwise undefined. A 1955 organizational handbook stated that "the visible governing body has been closely identified with the board of directors of this corporation."[17] Referring to events related to their 1957 convention, a 1959 publication said "the spiritual governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses watched the developments [then] the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society [acted]."[18] The 1970 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses noted that the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania was the organization used to plan the activity of Jehovah's Witnesses and provide them with "spiritual food", then declared: "So really the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania."[19]
      On October 1, 1971, Watch Tower Society vice-president Frederick Franz addressed the annual meeting of the Pennsylvania corporation in Buckingham, Pennsylvania, stating that the legal corporation of the Watch Tower Society was an "agency" or "temporary instrument" used by the Governing Body on behalf of the"faithful and discreet slave".[20] Three weeks later, on October 20, four additional men joined the seven members of the Society's board of directors on what became known as a separate, expanded Governing Body.[21] The board of directors had until then met only sporadically, usually only to discuss the purchase of property or new equipment, leaving decisions concerning material to be published in Watch Tower Society publications to the president and vice-president, Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz.[20][22] The Watchtower of December 15, 1971 was the first to unambiguously capitalize the term "Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses" as the defined group leading the religion, with a series of articles explaining its role and its relationship with the Watch Tower Society.[2][23]
      The focus on the new concept of "theocratic" leadership was accompanied by statements that the structure was not actually new: The Watch Tower declared that "a governing body made its appearance" some time after the formation of Zion's Watch Tower Society in 1884,[24] though it had not beenreferred to as such at the time.[10]
      The article claimed that Watch Tower Society president Charles Taze Russell had been a member of the governing body.[24] The 1972 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses stated that following Rutherford's death in 1942 "one of the first things that the governing body decided upon was the inauguration of the Theocratic Ministry School" and added that the "governing body" had published millions of books and Bibles in the previous thirty years.[25] Raymond Franz has disputed those claims, stating that the actions of presidents Russell, Rutherford and Knorr in overriding and failing to consult with directors proved the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses had been under a monarchical rule until 1976, leaving no decisions to a "governing body".[26]
      In 1972, a Question From Readers article in The Watchtower further reinforced the concept of the "Governing Body"; the magazine said the term referred to an agency that administers policy and provides organizational direction, guidance and regulation and was therefore "appropriate, fitting and Scriptural."[23][27]Organizational changes at the highest levels of the Watch Tower Society in 1976 significantly increased the powers and authority of the Governing Body.[28] The body has never had a legal corporate existence and operates through the Watch Tower Society and its board of directors.[29]

      Re-organization
      After its formal establishment in 1971, the Governing Body met regularly but, according to Raymond Franz, only briefly; Franz claims meetings were sometimes as short as seven minutes,[30] to make decisions about branch appointments and conduct that should be considered disfellowshipping offenses.[31][32] Franz claims that in 1971 and again in 1975, the Governing Body debated the extent of the authority it should be given.[33]
      Headquarters purge

      Raymond Franz claimed that in 1980, unease with doctrines surrounding the significance of 1914 surfaced within the Governing Body. In February of that year, three Governing Body members—aware that those who had been alive in 1914 were dying out despite the teaching that their generation would live to see Armageddon—proposed a doctrinal change to identify the "generation" who would see Armageddon as those who witnessed the 1957 launch of the Russian satellite Sputnik, which would be considered a 'sign in heaven'.The proposal, which would have extended the deadline for Armageddon by 43 years, failed to gain a majority vote.[36][37] Former Witnesses James Penton and Heather and Gary Botting claimed that internal dissatisfaction with official doctrines continued to grow, leading to a series of secret investigations and judicial hearings. As a result, the Governing Body led a purge of dissenting Brooklyn headquarters staff in April and May 1980.[38][39][40] Raymond Franz claimed he was forced to resign from the Governing Body, and he was later disfellowshipped from the religion. The Watch Tower Society responded with a new, hardened attitude towards the treatment of expelled Witnesses.[38][39][41] In his 1997 study of the religion, Penton concluded that since Raymond Franz's expulsion in 1980, the Governing Body displayed an increased level of conservatism, sturdy resistance to changes of policy and doctrines, and an increased tendency to isolate dissidents within the organization by means of disfellowshipping.[42]
      Helpers
      The April 15, 1992 issue of The Watchtower carried an article entitled Jehovah’s Provision, the “Given Ones” which drew a parallel between ancient non-Israelites who had been assigned temple duties (the "Nethinim" and "sons of the servants of Solomon") and Witness elders in positions of responsibility immediately under the oversight of the Governing Body who did not profess to be "anointed".[43]Both that issue of The Watchtower and the 1993 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses carried the same announcement:
      In view of the tremendous increase worldwide, it seems appropriate at this time to provide the Governing Body with some additional assistance. Therefore it has been decided to invite several helpers, mainly from among the great crowd, to share in the meetings of each of the Governing Body Committees, that is, the Personnel, Publishing, Service, Teaching, and Writing Committees. Thus, the number attending the meetings of each of these committees will be increased to seven or eight. Under the direction of the Governing Body committee members, these assistants will take part in discussions and will carry out various assignments given them by the committee. This new arrangement goes into effect May 1, 1992. For many years now, the number of the remnant of anointed Witnesses has been decreasing, while the number of the great crowd has increased beyond our grandest expectations.[44][45]
      Each of the current Governing Body members served as a committee "helper" before being appointed to the Governing Body itself.[46][47][48] The appointment of helpers to the Governing Body committees was described in 2006 as "still another refinement."[49]

      2000 and beyond
      Until 2000, the directors and officers of the Watch Tower Society were members of the Governing Body. Since then, members of the ecclesiastical Governing Body have not served as directors of any of the various corporations used by Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Governing Body has delegated such administrative responsibilities to other members of the religion.[50] The current president of the Watch Tower Society, Don A. Adams, is not a member of the Governing Body. As of October 2012, the Governing Body comprises eight members, as shown below.
      Governing Body 2003 


      Photo shot prior to the death of Guy Pierce in the 2014 release "God's Kingdom Rules!"
      One of our favorite moments of Annual Meeting…when all 7 of the Governing Body came out and sang with the Watchtower Chorus the last and newest song called: “Jehovah Is Your Name”….what a powerful and moving 100 Year Celebration! @stephendianna
       
      See also
      Organizational structure of Jehovah's Witnesses Letters from the Governing Body Funeral (Memorial) Programs for late **Governing Body** Members How to remember Governing Body Members' names Governing Body signing Bibles for public officials Residences of the Governing Body David H Splane: The Slave Is Not 1900 Years Old - Matt 24v45 - Frederick W. Franz was against the formation of a Governing Body References
      Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 216. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "Questions From Readers". The Watchtower: 703. November 15, 1972. "Our active leader today", The Watchtower, September 15, 2010, page 27, "They recognize, however, that Christ is using a small group of anointed Christian men as a Governing Body to lead and direct his disciples on earth." "Bearing Thorough Witness" About God's Kingdom. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 2009. p. 110. As of September 2005, twelve members listed (See The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26)
      Schroeder died March 8, 2006. (See The Watchtower, September 15, 2006, page 31)
      Sydlik died April 18, 2006. (See The Watchtower, January 1, 2007, page 8)
      Barber died April 8, 2007. (See The Watchtower, October 15, 2007, page 31)
      Jaracz died June 9, 2010. (See The Watchtower, November 15, 2010, page 23)
      Barr died December 4, 2010. (See The Watchtower, May 15, 2011, page 6)
      Mark Sanderson appointed in September 2012 "A New Member of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, July 15, 2013, page 26.[1] Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 217. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (2007). Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. pp. 4, 6. Botting, Heather & Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 178. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. p. 123. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 58.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. pp. 186, footnote. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 162–163, 214. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 61–62. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 59. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. The Watchtower. July 15, 1943. page 216, paragraph 24. The Watchtower. November 1, 1944. page 328, paragraph 32. Qualified to be Ministers. Watch Tower Society. 1955. p. 381. cited by Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience, page 74 "Divine Will International Assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses", The Watchtower, February 15, 1959, page 115, "So with intense interest the spiritual governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses watched the developments... Without delay the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society closed a contract with the owners to use the Polo Grounds simultaneously with Yankee Stadium." Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. Watch Tower Society. 1970. p. 65. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 57.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond. Crisis of Conscience. p. 44. The seven directors at October 20 were Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, Grant Suiter, Thomas Sullivan, Milton Henschel, Lyman Swingle and John Groh. The additional four to form the Governing Body were William Jackson, Leo Greenlees, George Gangas and Raymond Franz. Testimony by Fred Franz, Lord Strachan vs. Douglas Walsh Transcript, Lord Strachan vs. Douglas Walsh, 1954, as cited by Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience, 2007, page 75-76. "Theocratic Organization with Which to Move Forward Now; A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower. December 15, 1971. "A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower: 761. December 15, 1971. Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. 1972. pp. 254–257. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 78.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "Questions From Readers". The Watchtower: 703. November 15, 1972. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 44–110. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 228. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 45.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 46.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 215. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 81–105. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 80–107. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Jehovah's Witnesses–Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Society. 1993. pp. 108–109. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 218. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (1997). Crisis of Conscience. p. 262. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 117–123. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Botting, Heather & Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 158–165. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. "Witness Under Prosecution", Richard H. Ostling, Anne Constable,//Time// Magazine, February 22, 1982. Franz, Raymond (2007). "11-12". Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 219, 297–302, 319. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "Jehovah’s Provision, the “Given Ones”", The Watchtower, April 15, 1992, pages 16-17 "Announcement", The Watchtower, April 15, 1992, page 31 "Organizing for Further Expansion", 1993 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 253-254 "Governing Body Addition", The Watchtower, November 1, 1994, page 29, "The new member is Gerrit Lösch. ... Lösch has served in the Executive Offices and as an assistant to the Service Committee." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, January 1, 2000, page 29, "The new members, all anointed Christians, are Samuel F. Herd; M. Stephen Lett; Guy H. Pierce; and David H. Splane. Samuel Herd ... was also serving as a helper to the Service Committee. Stephen Lett ... was a helper to the Teaching Committee. Guy Pierce ... had been serving as a helper to the Personnel Committee. David Splane ... had been a helper to the Writing Committee." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26, "Geoffrey W. Jackson and Anthony Morris III—would be added to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. ... In April 2003, [Jackson] became part of the United States Bethel family and began to work in the Translation Services Department. Soon thereafter, Brother Jackson was made a helper to the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body ... 2002 [Morris] worked in the Service Department at Patterson and later as a helper to the Service Committee of the Governing Body." "Walking in the Path of Increasing Light", The Watchtower, February 15, 2006, page 28 "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower: 29. 15 January 2001. The Watchtower, May 15, 2008, page 29 "How the Governing Body is Organized", The Watchtower, May 15, 2008, page 29. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 85, 115. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "A History-Making Meeting", The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 2011, page 21. "Schools That Teach Jehovah's Ways", //2012 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses//, page 13-17. "Theocratic Schools-Evidence of Jehovah's Love", //The Watchtower//, September 15, 2012, page 13-17. "A “Body of Elders” with Rotating Chairmanship", The Watchtower, November 15, 1971, pages 699,700, "how will the “body of elders” in each congregation be selected? The governing body through the Watch Tower Society will send out a letter asking the committee that now looks after each congregation’s activity to...prayerfully consider who within your congregation really meets the qualifications of an elder or overseer. ...Then recommendations will be made to the governing body. ...After the governing body receives recommendations from the congregation, then proper appointments will be made. The governing body will do the appointing of elders in every congregation and this information will be sent out by the governing body through the various offices of the Society throughout the world." Hope Based on the Unfolding Purpose of God", The Watchtower, February 1, 1975, page 86 "Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 15 "Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 15, "In addition to appointing Branch Committee members, the Governing Body appoints Bethel elders and traveling overseers. However, they do commission responsible brothers to act for them in making certain other appointments." "“Keep Holding Men of That Sort Dear”", The Watchtower, October 1, 1988, page 18-19, "[The] traveling overseers sent forth by the Governing Body to preach the good news and help the congregations should be received hospitably and with respect. ...Elders, in particular, should show proper respect for these visiting representatives of the Governing Body. They are sent to the congregations because of their spiritual qualities and their experience, which is usually more extensive than that of many local elders." [emph added] "Cooperating With the Governing Body Today", The Watchtower, March 15, 1990, pages 19-20, "Since February 1, 1976, each of the branches of the Watch Tower Society has had a Branch Committee made up of capable men appointed by the Governing Body. As representatives of the Governing Bodyfor the country or countries under the supervision of their branch, these brothers must be faithful, loyal men. ...Branch Committees recommend mature, spiritual men to serve as circuit and district overseers. After being appointed directly by the Governing Body, they serve as traveling overseers. These brothers visit circuits and congregations in order to build them up spiritually and help them apply instructions received from the Governing Body." [emph added] "Humbly Submitting to Loving Shepherds", The Watchtower, April 1, 2007, page 27 "The Watchtower and Awake!—Timely Journals of Truth". The Watchtower: 21. January 1, 1994. "Building for an Eternal Future". The Watchtower: 25. January 1, 1986. 2012 Annual Meeting Program (Gov. Body is "Faithful & Discreet Slave" explained in 8 minute clip) "Seek God's guidance in all things", The Watchtower, April 15, 2008, page 11. "‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’". The Watchtower: 200. April 1, 1972. "the modern-day “prophet,” the spirit-begotten, anointed ones who are the nucleus of Jehovah’s witnesses today" "The Things Revealed Belong to Us", The Watchtower, May 15, 1986, page 13. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. p. 153. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body, The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, page 24 ¶18 Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 211. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "The faithful slave and its governing body", The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, pages 23-24, "They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special insights beyond what even some experienced members of the "great crowd" may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the 'other sheep' have. They do not expect special treatment; nor do they claim that their partaking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation." "A Secret Christians Dare Not Keep!", The Watchtower, June 1, 1997, page 14. "Insight That Jehovah Has Given", The Watchtower, March 15, 1989, page 22, "It is through the columns of The Watchtower that explanations of vital Scriptural truths have been provided for us by Jehovah’s 'faithful and discreet slave.' The Watchtower is the principal instrument used by the 'slave' class for dispensing spiritual food." "The faithful slave and its governing body", The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, pages 23-24. "The Spirit Searches into the Deep Things of God", The Watchtower, July 15, 2010, page 23, "When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of 'the faithful and discreet slave' at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all." "Question From Readers", "The Watchtower", August 15, 2011, page 22 "Annual Meeting Report". "A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, December 15, 1971, page 762 "The Governing Body", 1973 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 257, "The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses consists of eleven brothers, all anointed of God. They are as follows: Frederick W. Franz, Raymond V. Franz, George D. Gangas, Leo K. Greenlees, John O. Groh, Milton G. Henschel, William K. Jackson, Nathan H. Knorr, Grant Suiter, Thomas J. Sullivan and Lyman A. Swingle." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, January 1, 2000, page 29 "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26 "Governing Body Addition", The Watchtower, November 1, 1994, page 29 "A New Member of the Governing Body", //The Watchtower//, July 15, 2013, page 26. Interviews - 133rd Gilead Class (stated at video b. Mark Sanderson of Gov. Body) "Rejoicing Over "Victory With the Lamb", The Watchtower, October 15, 2007, page 31. "Britain", 2000 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 130 "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, November 15, 1977, page 680 "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", The Watchtower, January 15, 1975, page 60 "We Were a Team", The Watchtower, April 1, 2001, page 24. "He Humbly Served Jehovah", The Watchtower, June 15, 1996, page 32. "A Joyful Perseverer in Good Work", The Watchtower, July 1, 1977, page 399. "Service Assembly and Annual Meeting—Pittsburg", The Watchtower, November 1, 1944, page 334. "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 28. "His Deeds Follow Him", The Watchtower, December 1, 1994, page 31. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 273–336. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "Gilead Sends Missionaries “to the Most Distant Part of the Earth”", The Watchtower, December 15, 1999, page 28, "Theodore Jaracz, a member of the Governing Body, who himself graduated with Gilead’s seventh class in 1946" "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", The Watchtower, January 15, 1975, page 60 Theodore Jaracz Memorial Service Brochure (1.4MB) "Jehovah Has Dealt Rewardingly With Me", The Watchtower, October 1, 1984, page 21. Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, "Background of N. H. Knorr", page 91: "On June 10, 1940, he became the vice-president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Pennsylvania corporation)." The Watchtower, July 15,1977, "Firm to the End", page 441. "A Staunch Fighter for the Truth", The Watchtower, September 15, 1988, page 31. "His Delight Was in the Law of Jehovah", The Watchtower, September 15, 2006, page 31. "The corporation, the WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY, pursuant to its charter and by-laws, and the laws of the State of Pennsylvania, held its annual meeting at Pittsburgh, North Side, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, on the first day of October, A.D. 1938, at which annual meeting a Board of Directors was elected as follows, to wit: J. F. Rutherford, C. A. Wise, W. E. Van Amburgh, H. H. Riemer, T. J. Sullivan, Wm. P. Heath, Jr., and Grant Suiter, to hold office for a period of three years, or until their successors are duly elected." - 1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, "Election", page 195 "A Loyal Fighter Passes On", The Watchtower, February 1, 1984, page 9. "He Ran for “The Prize of the Upward Call” and Won!", The Watchtower, September 15, 1974, page 554, "On October 31, 1932, he [Sullivan] was made a member of the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania; he was also one of the eleven-member governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses." "A Time of Testing (1914-1918)", Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, ©1993 Watch Tower, page 71, "Thomas (Bud) Sullivan, who later served as a member of the Governing Body, recalled: “It was my privilege to visit Brooklyn Bethel in the late summer of 1918 during the brothers’ incarceration." Jehovah's Witnesses–Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Society. 1993. p. 91. "How Priceless Your Friendship, O God!", The Watchtower, June 1, 1985, page 27. "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 60 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. 1980. pp. 257–258. "Announcements", Our Kingdom Ministry, August 1980, page 2, "Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980." Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 120. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Beverley, James A. (1986). Crisis of Allegiance. Burlington, Ontario: Welch Publishing Company. p. 71. ISBN 0-920413-37-4. 1986 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 255 Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 322, 393. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Geoffrey Jackson testifies before the Australian Royal Commission 2015  
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      FSB starts detaining Jehovah’s Witnesses on Kola, dozens flee to Finland
      Criminal cases are initiated after FSB and Rosgvardia raided six addresses in the closed navy town of Polyarny.
      By Thomas Nilsen - The Independent Barents Observer
      April 20, 2018
      Last April, a ruling by Russia’s Supreme Court banned all Jehovah’s Witnesses organizations throughout the country, arguing the religious group to be extremist.
      On Friday, Murmansk regional authorities’ newspaper Murmanski Vestnik reports about raids made by FSB and the National Guard of Russia (Rosgvardia) in Polyarny on the Kola Peninsula.
       
      Two local residents were detained under suspicions of being members of the administrative centre of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, organizing teaching and meetings where reading of banned religious literature took place. Searches were carried out at six addresses in Polyarny.  
       
      The town is home to a naval yard and several of the diesel-powered submarines and other warships of the Northern Fleet have Polyarny as homeport.
       
      The extremist law banning Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia provides for a maximum sentences of 6 to 10 years in jail.
      Meanwhile, a wave of practicing Jehovah’s Witnesses are fleeing Russia. More than a thousand people are now seeking asylum in several European countries, including Finland, the newspaper Helsingin Sanomat reported earlier this winter.
       
      It all started last summer, and that’s when the first Witnesses sought asylum in Finland, spokesperson Veikko Leininen with the organization’s Finnish branch told the newspaper.  Many dozens at least are still to come, he said.
      Press adviser Therese Bergwitz-Larsen with the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration (UDI) can’t go into details about particular reasons for asylum seekers coming to Norway.
      Unfortunately, we can’t say anything in general on the background for reasons to apply for asylum, since the number [from Russia] is so small, Bergwitz-Larsen tells the Barents Observer.
      Statistics from UDI show that 15 persons came from Russia the first three months this year. In 2017, 58 Russian asylum seekers came to Norway.
      In Russia, the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses are estimated to about 175,000. That be, before the organization was declared extremist. Viewed with skepticism for denying military service, voting and refusal to take blood, the members are seen as both a threat to themselves, their children and public safety.
      Also during Soviet times, the Witnesses were persecuted.   
      Human Right Watch recently called on Russian authorities to drop charges against Danish citizen Dennis Christensen adherent for practicing his faith. Christensen has been in pretrial custody for 11 months in the town of Orel. Human Right Watch argues that Russia is a member of Council of Europe and  a party to the European Convention on Human Rights, and therefore is obligated to protect the rights to freedom of religion and association.
      My note: Russia passed a law in 2015 that basically stated that any CE or ECHR resolution or ruling they disagreed with could be ignored. I think it is a very good idea when governments start rounding up people for gas chambers, concentration or slave labor camps, or prison ... just be somewhere else.
      You may have to abandon everything you and your family ever worked for, with the clothes on your back, but at least when they upholster the living room furniture you left behind ... it won't be with YOUR SKIN.
       
       
       
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    • Just for interest, here is an interview with prince Andrew. It's acutely embarrassing the excuses  he makes and the denials....  
    • Yes. Just watched it. I like that you talk about the broad effects of the impact whistleblowing has had in this particular area. It's not just the Witnesses, but many institutions. Many guilty people would have probably got away with sexual abuse 20 years ago, but not so much today. Even royalty have been put under the microscope. History is rife with stories of rich dirty old men having sex with underage girls and getting away with it. When enough people make noise, it can't be ignored.
    • Maybe this was in the sense of these "bad elders" rejecting the counsel given by "good elders" who were quoting Bible books and the Mosaic Law (as transmitted through angels), or these "bad elders" were speaking out against sayings of Jesus and inspired writings of the apostles, as if they held no value to this time they were in, so many decades after Jesus originally spoke them. Also (less likely) Jude quotes the book of Enoch, specifically a part about the judgment of angels, and he appears to refer to another book about the "Assumption of Moses." We don't know how much more of those books were accepted other than the portions referenced, but these books were part of a genre that gave names to dozens of angels and referenced many more hierachies of thousands of angels. Good point! I doubt it. There are too many scriptures, and too much context that shows what Paul was up against in trying to get the congregations to accept and understand the concept of "grace" or "undeserved kindness." (Along with "law" "legalism" "works" "righteousness" "sin" "conscience" etc.) Paul had to write chapters, nearly whole long letters, on the subject, and it even put him for a short while at odds with the Jerusalem council. Probably it is sometimes. But the whistleblowing of the CSA cases all over the world have drawn attention to a lot of things that go on in the world where the abused victims felt powerless. In many institutions, including once-hostile work environments, this is actually changing for the better. The threat of monetary sanctions has made even rich men who could once get away with anything (as Trump claimed), think twice. It has definitely helped in some suburban schools and even corporations I once worked for. I suspect that many priests and elders who once thought they would get away with anything are now more apt to think again before abusing persons.
    • The old method of handling this was to use the expression "present truth." Many adventists including Seventh Day still use the expression. It's based on a mistranslation of 2 Peter 1:12 where the KJV said: Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. The tendency among 19th century Adventists was to see a "chronology" element or "time" element in the English expression that did not exist in the original Greek. Therefore, the idea was that: even when in the midst of learning or teaching falsehood, it was still "present truth" at the time, and what is now "present truth" could turn out to be false in the future, but it will always have been "present truth" because it's always the best we had at the time. From the Greek, this is better translated as "the truth that is present in you" (American Standard and NWT).  A similar rush to see a time element in the English translation was done by Barbour and Russell and others who had been associated with Adventists. Here's an example from Leviticus: (Leviticus 26:28) 28 I will intensify my opposition to you, and I myself will have to chastise you seven times for your sins. This was originally the primary source for Russell's 7 times = 2,520 years, and the 7 times of Nebuchadnezzar's dream about his own insanity was only a secondary source. But we have since learned that Leviticus here didn't refer to chronological "times" but the sense was "7 times as much" as in "I will hit you twice as hard, or three times as hard, or seven times as hard." This was already in the context, but chronologists and numerologists rarely notice the context until they have already formed a time related doctrine. (Leviticus 26:18-21) . . .“‘If even this does not make you listen to me, I will have to chastise you seven times as much for your sins. . . . 21 “‘But if you keep walking in opposition to me and refuse to listen to me, I will then have to strike you seven times as much, according to your sins. Now that we have noticed this, we have been stuck with using Nebuchadnezzar as if his wicked Gentile kingdom somehow represented Christ's Messianic non-Gentile kingdom. (Another contradiction between 1914 and the Bible.) We still tend to make a "chronology word" out of things having to do with time when we translate the Greek word for time as "appointed time" instead of what might better be translated as "opportune time." Note that it's the exact same word "time" in these two verses: (Ephesians 5:16) 16 buying out the opportune time for yourselves, because the days are wicked. (Luke 21:24) . . .and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled. Neither the word opportune nor appointed is found in the Greek, only the word time. But the more typical meaning is "opportunity" as in: Will you find the opportunity to do this? Will you find the time to do this? Not: Will you find the appointed day and hour to do this? We have added a more specific chronological sense that usually isn't necessary in the Greek.  
    • Elon Musk shows himself to rather out of touch with science. He is using his money to make a name for himself by driving forward with some outlandish plans. He is an embarrassment to his own employees sometimes when he quotes pseudo-scientific ideas that have been obsolete for decades. (One of these was the idea of using nuclear explosions to make Mars inhabitable.) But his optimism to get employees to "make it happen" will drive some scientific progress in spite of himself. Even here, however, he has often just attached his name to some idea that came out of Japan or China or some US or European scientific think tank that was never associated with Musk. He attaches his own unrealistic timelines to these ideas, however, and then begins to lose credibility.  This particular idea has some merit, but there is a lot more expense in creating the infrastructure than people realize. There is the mining of the elements that go into solar cells, the manufacture of solar panels, the trucking of materials to such a solar hub, the infrastructure to build out the lines from the hub across the USA. Currently these types of expenses reduce the ROI value of this particular type of renewable energy so much that it makes carbon (coal/oil/petroleum) seem much more desirable for generating power, and for which an infrastructure is already in place. When viable, I would like to see how close to Hoover Dam this could be built to re-use some power lines that emanate from there, and already reach to many southwest states. Perhaps an even better idea would be to find a place near Yuma or Mexicali, so that half of the power would be used to desalinate water for Mexico and the US by piping saltwater from the Gulf of California, then freshwater back out with a mountain or salt and minerals as a byproduct.    
    • I think that's exactly correct. But we know that as Christians we are still under under a duty to question, reflect, test, prove, meditate, and "make sure of all things." We must do this even if it were an angel out of heaven giving us the interpretation, according to Galatians 1 and 2. And Paul specifically applied that thought to the way the Galatian congregation(s) should have tested and made sure of the incorrect counsel coming from council of elders at Jerusalem, because evidently some were too quick to accept that counsel just because it came from those who seemed to be pillars in the congregation. To Paul, he said, it didn't matter who those men were, or what they seemed to be, and he even included Peter, James and John in that idea of who to question. John himself later wrote that we should test the inspired utterances (1 John 4:1). I have. And the Watchtower has also claimed to have found MANY previous misinterpretations of prophecy which interpretations they said came from God, and yet warranted a redefinition of that interpretation. In fact I quoted you one of several places where the Watchtower has admitted exactly what you say you have not found: *** ws17 June p. 13 par. 16 Set Your Heart on Spiritual Treasures *** At times, our understanding of a Bible prophecy or a scripture may be adjusted. When that happens, it is important to take the time to study the adjustment and meditate on it. (Acts 17:11; 1 Timothy 4:15) We not only need to understand the main differences between the old understanding and the new one, but we also need to pay attention to the details of the new understanding. I've seen you accuse others here of blasphemy, when they defended the Bible, and yet you are able to make a statement such as that! Yes, certain Bible Student congregations continued to follow the Barbour/Russell advent timeline, which included Rutherford and the Watchtower editorial board, up until about 1927, with some intermediate adjustments over time to what Russell had said about 1914, and 1915, and with some brand new ideas about 1918, and 1925. Russell's concerted effort to "finally understand his own chronology" barely changed a thing, except for a few changes to some Great Pyramid measurements, and some vacillations between 1914 and 1915, and a change around 1904 to push the period of tribulation to the few months after 1914 instead of the few months (or years) before 1914. I would agree that Edgar's pyramid scheme hardly influenced Russell. That's because Edgar only wanted to get even more details on the subject, and completed most of this work after Russell had already published all he had to say on the Pyramid. Also, Russell was already satisfied enough with the details he had borrowed from Joseph Seiss. You say: "Perhaps, that is where the confusion lies" but there is no need for any confusion at all. Russell's works include all the necessary details, and they are all easy to find. If we wish to discuss Russell's own published views, we don't need to worry about the many other groups that sprung from Barbour's and Russell's teachings. I think I know what you are talking about. I think the admins or moderators here consider it spamming when someone overuses a long string of a dozen or more dislike emojis at the rate of one per minute on the posts of people they dislike, and a string of a dozen or more "like" emojis at the rate of about one per minute on their own accounts of different names. I think once a person is caught doing this once, it's dangerous to keep doing this with even with a smaller string of up-votes and down-votes. Sometimes the give-away to the game is when the down-vote is simply a negative response to a Scripture or a direct quote from the Watchtower.
    • I would like to expand on the above quote. New truth/old truth......in the same WT in the preceding par (15) it says; "We discovered some priceless truths when we first began to associate with God’s people. These could well be described as “old,” in that we have known and appreciated them from the beginning of our Christian course. What do such precious truths include? We learned that Jehovah is our Creator and Life-Giver and that he has a purpose for mankind. We also learned that God lovingly provided the ransom sacrifice of his Son so that we might be freed from sin and death. We further learned that his Kingdom will end all suffering and that we have the prospect of living forever  in peace and happiness under Kingdom rule". So the "old" truths here are defined as old from the point of view of age. These are the backbone, basics, elementary, fundamental or key doctrines as JWI describes at the outset of this thread. These have not changed. Then there is the "old" as defined in par 16; "old understanding". So we are not talking about any new truth as in newly discovered truth, but an adjustment or new understanding of what has already been taught previously. In this case it really doesn't make sense to call something old truth and new truth because truth can only be one. If it's not truth, its falsehood. So in my opinion, unless something is "old" established truth, the backbone of our Biblical doctrine, then anything else that falls into the "viewpoint" category of "truth" (or the shadow that is thrown) should not have to be accepted as the "absolute Truth", and should it really become "a part of our collection of Bible truths"? (Of course with any kind of truth, whether relativism, universalism (absolute truth) etc. one can go into great depths of the philosophy behind these concepts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth) (Interestingly, JWI WT quote is from the simplified version. The normal study version does not say "a part of our collection of Bible truths" , but "our own treasure store".)        
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