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ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view


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3 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

But the Revelation was given by God to Jesus then to John in the last decade of the first century after Jesus' ascension and He said the things were to take place shortly (2Pet 3:8); not about things that were already in effect like Jesus sitting at God's right hand which occurred in 33CE. 

But Revelation also includes revelations about things that have already occurred.

Note that the expressions about Jesus' power and salvation and authority and kingdom are part of the introduction to Revelation, before any vision has been recorded:

(Revelation 1:5, 6) May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

This is also about past events which had already made those who conquered to be a kingdom. Jesus had already set them free from sins (salvation) by his own blood. He was already the firstborn from the dead, the King of Kings, the Faithful Witness. He is called the Lamb as a reference to this past event. Jesus was already called King of Kings in this introduction.

Much of what John sees is not just things to come in the future, but also "things that are" -- things already true.

(Revelation 1:19) 19 So write down the things you saw, and the things that are, and the things that will take place after these.

This is a feature of "revelation" in the Bible, where sometimes what is revealed is what has already happened or is currently happening. Note that this is true when the "curtain" is peeled back at the start of the book of Job. It's even part of the revelation explained by Micaiah mentioned earlier. Granted that the overall goal of Revelation is all about how these things that are true will culminate in the future for a final fulfillment, but this does not discount all the verses that show that salvation, kingdom, power and authority were already given to Jesus at his resurrection and his sitting at God's right hand. The idea that Revelation is really about Jehovah's control of the entire "sweeping history of Christianity" past, present and future, is also implied in names like "the first and the last" and above, "the One who is, and who was, and who is coming."

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Even before C.T.Russell was born, commentaries on Bible prophecy included  dozens of potential dates. Nearly 200 years ago, a couple of them even included 1914 as potentially significant time period.

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(Luke 12:47, 48) . . .Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. But the one who did not understand and yet did t

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29 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

It coincides with Daniel 7:13,14,

As an aside, take note of which kingdom this fourth beast must refer to.

(Daniel 7:14-22) 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed. 15 “As for me, Daniel, my spirit was distressed within me because the visions of my head frightened me. 16 I went near to one of those who were standing there to ask him about the true meaning of this. So he replied and made known to me the interpretation of these things. 17 “‘These huge beasts, four in number, are four kings who will stand up from the earth. 18 But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will possess the kingdom forever, yes, forever and ever.’ 19 “Then I wanted to know more about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others; it was extraordinarily fearsome, with iron teeth and copper claws, and it was devouring and crushing, and trampling down what was left with its feet; 20 and about the ten horns on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth speaking arrogantly and whose appearance was bigger than that of the others. 21 “I kept watching as that horn made war on the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was rendered in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the appointed time arrived for the holy ones to take possession of the kingdom. 23 "This is what he said: 'As for the fourth beast, there is a fourth kingdom that will come to be on the earth...'"

Our current understanding is that this fourth beast must be Rome, and yet, during the time of this beast was also the time when Jesus was given the kingdom.

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53 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Our current understanding is that this fourth beast must be Rome, and yet, during the time of this beast was also the time when Jesus was given the kingdom.

Lot's of info to go through but I couldn't overlook this one. What would you say the particular "horn" making war with the "holy ones" represents?

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Point taken about Revelation also encompassing history of past, but I will have to look up what fourth beast represents currently. I know it was Rome, and you have to place it with what it said in Revelation about the 7th world power Anglo-American and the eighth beast, image of the world beast.  Will check it later when I get back from field service.

 

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12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Before I read your name, Gnosis Pithos, I read your first sentence and still didn't have a clue who you were. The second sentence was an immediate give-away, however, based purely on the style. I even knew exactly what city would come up if I looked up the IP address, which I won't publish here, because not everyone has access to this information.

RATS!

... and I had two surplus North Korean middle range ballistic missiles ... READY TO GO!

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On 26/6/2017 at 5:56 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

that God's Word lights the path, and to see this light as becoming brighter, as knowledge, understanding, and application of the same word increases,

it has happened before ...the progressive change of understanding, (examples) :
(Mark 8:17)
“. . .Do YOU not yet perceive and get the meaning? . . .”
(Luke 24:31, 32)
“. . .At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; and he disappeared from them. 
32 And they said to each other: 
“Were not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us?””
:)

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13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Before I read your name, Gnosis Pithos, I read your first sentence and still didn't have a clue who you were. The second sentence was an immediate give-away, however, based purely on the style. I even knew exactly what city would come up if I looked up the IP address, which I won't publish here, because not everyone has access to this information. I glanced over at the name, and also recognized it as a name you used a couple years ago on jw-archive, where you also made it clear that it was only one of several alternate names you were using. When I did finally look up the IP, I was a bit surprised that "Gnosis Pithos" used the EXACT same IP address as Allen Smith, AllenSmith and JWTheologian etc, etc. Since your previous explanation was that JWTheologian might be another person in the same household as you, all I can say is that you must have a crowded house.

Anyway, I don't really care about that, I just thought it was a funny experience. But, no matter what, I'm wondering if you might be able to explain some of what you meant. For example, can you explain what the understanding was (from 1874, 1878, 1881 to 1914) that people cannot grasp? What had these Bible students under the direction of Russell figured out in 1915, about how the generations before 1914 would not experience?

 

I think JWs ONLY are interested in 1. reading and 2. explaning / trying to explain the words of the Bible.
if not so, WHY everyone else, when taking about "the last days" ...  always refering to the JWs ?!
I would like to think so. 

B|

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19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As far as I'm concerned it has nothing to do with no hellfire, no Trinity, political neutrality, and not going to war for example. I consider the last one (no warfare) a major way in which we show we love our neighbor and even love our enemy. Those Christian concepts are rather difficult to justify by participating directly in warfare.

YOU may not, but it was one of the foundational points to prove that jw's had the truth. You already know this as you have extensively researched historical publications for many other things. 

War is a whole other topic that I would welcome a discussion with you. I'd like to understand more on your point of view and discuss scripture about it. 

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2 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Lot's of info to go through but I couldn't overlook this one. What would you say the particular "horn" making war with the "holy ones" represents?

This could get really fun, and cover a lot of different topics, and you know that I probably couldn't stop myself from joining in.  But another "thread" would be better. I'm really not anxious to share too many ideas on Daniel and Revelation, even though I think there are several places where simpler and clearer understandings are possible. But I'm not trying to give the impression that I "know" anything more than you or anyone else on all these matters. And I think I've probably caused enough confusion or commotion in the way I brought up 1914 this time.

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Agree that anything relating to the future also relates to the past. So I agree Revelation also mentions current and past events. However, by its very name, Revelation, it reveals things not  before mentioned. These things are to occur in the future from the time of their revelation.  It also coincides with the book of Daniel which also relates to the present in Daniel’s time but mainly on the future as these texts confirm.

I will therefore print those quotes which help to identify the players and the periods in question.

===

Our current understanding is that this fourth beast must be Rome, and yet, during the time of this beast was also the time when Jesus was given the kingdom.  JWInsider

===

The quotes below reveal in a satisfying way the time periods we wish to understand. 

 The prophecy of Daniel is for the time of the end

(Daniel 8:17) So he came near to where I was standing, but when he came I was so terrified that I fell facedown. He said to me: “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”

(Daniel 8:26) “What was said in the vision about the evenings and the mornings is true, but you must keep the vision secret, for it refers to a time many days from now.”

(Daniel 12:9) Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end.

(Daniel 12:4) “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”

 

The fourth beast is Rome – but there are extensions into our time

 (see paras. 24,25 of chapter 9 below)

  Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy! quote below.

*** dp chap. 9 pp. 130-131 pars. 6-7 Who Will Rule the World? ***

6 “As for these huge beasts,” said God’s angel, “because they are four, there are four kings that will stand up from the earth.” (Daniel 7:17) Clearly, the angel identified the four beasts that Daniel saw as “four kings.” Thus, these beasts signify world powers. But which ones?

7 Bible expositors commonly link Daniel’s dream-vision of four beasts with Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of an immense image. For example, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary states: “Chapter 7 [of Daniel] parallels chapter 2.” The Wycliffe Bible Commentary says: “It is generally agreed that the succession of four Gentile dominions . . . is the same here [in Daniel chapter 7] as that contemplated in [Daniel] chapter 2.” The four world powers represented by the four metals of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream were the Babylonian Empire (gold head), Medo-Persia (silver breasts and arms), Greece (copper belly and thighs), and the Roman Empire (iron legs). (Daniel 2:32, 33) Let us see how these kingdoms correspond to the four huge beasts that Daniel saw.

 

*** dp chap. 9 pp. 136-148 pars. 18-39 Who Will Rule the World? ***

The Roman World Power, however, did not end with the removal of its last emperor in Rome in 476 C.E. For many centuries, papal Rome continued to exercise political, and especially religious, domination over Europe. It did so through the feudal system, in which most inhabitants of Europe were subject to a lord, then to a king. And all kings acknowledged the authority of the pope. Thus the Holy Roman Empire with papal Rome as its focal point dominated world affairs throughout that long period of history called the Dark Ages.

19 Who can deny that the fourth beast was “different from all the other kingdoms”? (Daniel 7:7, 19, 23) In this regard, historian H. G. Wells wrote: “This new Roman power . . . was in several respects a different thing from any of the great empires that had hitherto prevailed in the civilised world. . . . [It] incorporated nearly all the Greek people in the world, and its population was less strongly Hamitic and Semitic than that of any preceding empire . . . It was so far a new pattern in history . . . The Roman Empire was a growth, an unplanned novel growth; the Roman people found themselves engaged almost unawares in a vast administrative experiment.” Yet, the fourth beast was to have further growth.

A SMALL HORN GAINS THE ASCENDANCY

20 “I kept on considering the horns,” said Daniel, “and, look! another horn, a small one, came up in among them, and there were three of the first horns that were plucked up from before it.” (Daniel 7:8) Concerning this outgrowth, the angel told Daniel: “Another one will rise up after them [the ten kings], and he himself will be different from the first ones, and three kings he will humiliate.” (Daniel 7:24) Who is this king, when did he rise, and what three kings did he humiliate?

21 Consider the following developments. In 55 B.C.E., Roman General Julius Caesar invaded Britannia but failed to establish a permanent settlement. In 43 C.E., Emperor Claudius began a more permanent conquest of southern Britain. Then, in 122 C.E., Emperor Hadrian began to build a wall from the Tyne River to the Solway Firth, marking the northern limit of the Roman Empire. Early in the fifth century, the Roman legions left the island. “In the sixteenth century,” explained one historian, “England had been a second-rate power. Its wealth was slight compared with that of the Netherlands. Its population was much less than that of France. Its armed forces (including its navy) were inferior to Spain’s.” Britain evidently was an insignificant kingdom then, making up the symbolic small horn of the fourth beast. But that was to change.

22 In 1588, Philip II of Spain launched the Spanish Armada against Britain. This fleet of 130 ships, carrying more than 24,000 men, sailed up the English Channel, only to suffer defeat by the British navy and to fall victim to contrary winds and fierce Atlantic storms. This event “marked the decisive passing of naval superiority from Spain to England,” said one historian. In the 17th century, the Dutch developed the world’s largest merchant marine. With growing overseas colonies, however, Britain prevailed over that kingdom. During the 18th century, the British and the French fought each other in North America and India, leading to the Treaty of Paris in 1763. This treaty, said author William B. Willcox, “recognized Britain’s new position as the predominant European power in the world beyond Europe.” Britain’s supremacy was confirmed by the crushing victory over Napoléon of France in 1815 C.E. The “three kings” that Britain thus ‘humiliated’ were Spain, the Netherlands, and France. (Daniel 7:24) As a result, Britain emerged as the world’s greatest colonial and commercial power. Yes, the “small” horn grew to become a world power!

23 The angel told Daniel that the fourth beast, or fourth kingdom, would “devour all the earth.” (Daniel 7:23) That proved true of the Roman province once known as Britannia. It eventually became the British Empire and ‘devoured all the earth.’ At one time, this empire embraced one fourth of the earth’s land surface and a fourth of its population.

24 As the Roman Empire differed from previous world powers, the king depicted by the “small” horn would also “be different from the first ones.” (Daniel 7:24) Concerning the British Empire, historian H. G. Wells noted: “Nothing of the sort has ever existed before. First and central to the whole system was the ‘crowned republic’ of the United British Kingdoms . . . No single office and no single brain had ever comprehended the British Empire as a whole. It was a mixture of growths and accumulations entirely different from anything that has ever been called an empire before.”

25 There was more to the “small” horn than the British Empire. In 1783, Britain recognized the independence of its 13 American colonies. The United States of America eventually became Britain’s ally, emerging from World War II as the earth’s dominant nation. It still has strong ties with Britain. The resulting Anglo-American dual world power constitutes the ‘horn having eyes.’ Indeed, this world power is observant, astute! It ‘speaks grandiose things,’ dictating policy for much of the world and acting as its mouthpiece, or “false prophet.”Daniel 7:8, 11, 20; Revelation 16:13; 19:20.

THE SMALL HORN OPPOSES GOD AND HIS HOLY ONES

26 Daniel continued to describe his vision, saying: “I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them.” (Daniel 7:21) Regarding this “horn,” or king, God’s angel foretold: “He will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25) How and when was this part of the prophecy fulfilled?

27 “The holy ones” persecuted by the “small” horn—the Anglo-American World Power—are Jesus’ spirit-anointed followers on earth. (Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 2:9) For years before World War I, the remnant of these anointed ones publicly warned that 1914 would see the conclusion of “the appointed times of the nations.” (Luke 21:24) When war broke out in that year, it was evident that the “small” horn had ignored this warning, for it persisted in harassing the anointed “holy ones.” The Anglo-American World Power even opposed their efforts to carry out Jehovah’s requirement (or, “law”) that the good news of the Kingdom be preached worldwide by his witnesses. (Matthew 24:14) Thus the “small” horn attempted “to change times and law.”

28 Jehovah’s angel referred to a prophetic period of “a time, and times and half a time.” How long is that? Bible expositors generally agree that this expression denotes three and a half times—the sum of one time, two times, and half a time. Since Nebuchadnezzar’s “seven times” of madness amounted to seven years, the three and a half times are three and a half years. (Daniel 4:16, 25) An American Translation reads: “They shall be handed over to him for a year, two years, and half a year.” James Moffatt’s version says: “For three years and half a year.” The same period is mentioned at Revelation 11:2-7, which states that God’s witnesses would preach dressed in sackcloth for 42 months, or 1,260 days, and then be killed. When did this time period begin and end?

29 For the anointed Christians, World War I meant a time of testing. By the end of 1914, they were expecting persecution. In fact, the very yeartext chosen for 1915 was Jesus’ question to his disciples, “Are ye able to drink of my cup?” It was based on Matthew 20:22, King James Version. Hence, beginning in December 1914, that small band of witnesses preached “in sackcloth.”

30 As war fever took hold, the anointed Christians encountered mounting opposition. Some of them were imprisoned. Individuals, such as Frank Platt in England and Robert Clegg in Canada, were tortured by sadistic authorities. On February 12, 1918, the British Dominion of Canada banned the recently published seventh volume of Studies in the Scriptures, entitled The Finished Mystery, as well as the tracts entitled The Bible Students Monthly. The following month, the U.S. Department of Justice pronounced the distribution of the seventh volume illegal. The result? Why, homes were searched, literature was confiscated, and Jehovah’s worshipers were arrested!

31 Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work. (Revelation 11:7) So the foretold period of “a time, and times and half a time” ended in June 1918.

32 But “the holy ones” were not wiped out by the harassment from the “small” horn. As prophesied in the book of Revelation, after a short period of inactivity, the anointed Christians became alive and active again. (Revelation 11:11-13) On March 26, 1919, the president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and his associates were released from prison, and they were later exonerated of the false charges against them. Immediately thereafter, the anointed remnant began to reorganize for further activity. What, though, would be in store for the “small” horn?

THE ANCIENT OF DAYS HOLDS COURT

33 After introducing the four beasts, Daniel shifts his eyes from the fourth beast to a scene in heaven. He beholds the Ancient of Days sit down on his resplendent throne as Judge. The Ancient of Days is none other than Jehovah God. (Psalm 90:2) As the heavenly Court takes its seat, Daniel sees ‘books being opened.’ (Daniel 7:9, 10) Since Jehovah’s existence extends into the infinite past, he knows all human history as if it were written in a book. He has observed all four symbolic beasts and can pass judgment upon them according to firsthand knowledge.

34 Daniel continues: “I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season.” (Daniel 7:11, 12) The angel tells Daniel: “The Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him totally.”—Daniel 7:26.

35 By decree of the Great Judge, Jehovah God, the horn that blasphemed God and harassed his “holy ones” will have the same experience as the Roman Empire, which persecuted the early Christians. Its rulership will not continue. Neither will that of inferior hornlike “kings” that came out of the Roman Empire. What, though, about the rulerships derived from the previous beastly powers? As foretold, their lives were lengthened “for a time and a season.” Their territories have continued to have inhabitants to our day. Iraq, for example, occupies the territory of ancient Babylon. Persia (Iran) and Greece still exist. Remnants of these world powers are part of the United Nations. These kingdoms also will perish with the annihilation of the last world power. All human governments will be obliterated at “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” (Revelation 16:14, 16) But, then, who will rule the world?

LASTING RULERSHIP JUST AHEAD!

36 “I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there!” exclaimed Daniel. “With the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One.” (Daniel 7:13) When on earth, Jesus Christ called himself “the Son of man,” indicating his kinship to mankind. (Matthew 16:13; 25:31) To the Sanhedrin, or Jewish high court, Jesus said: “You will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 26:64) So in Daniel’s vision, the one coming, invisible to human eyes, and gaining access to Jehovah God was the resurrected, glorified Jesus Christ. When did this occur?

37 With Jesus Christ, God has made a covenant for a Kingdom, just as he had made one with King David. (2 Samuel 7:11-16; Luke 22:28-30) When “the appointed times of the nations” ended in 1914 C.E., Jesus Christ, as David’s royal heir, could rightfully receive Kingdom rule. Daniel’s prophetic record reads: “To him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.” (Daniel 7:14) Thus the Messianic Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. However, the rulership is given to others also.

38 “The holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom,” said the angel. (Daniel 7:18, 22, 27) Jesus Christ is the chief holy one. (Acts 3:14; 4:27, 30) The other “holy ones” having a share in the rulership are the 144,000 faithful spirit-anointed Christians, who are Kingdom heirs with Christ. (Romans 1:7; 8:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:5; 1 Peter 2:9) They are resurrected from death as immortal spirits to reign with Christ on heavenly Mount Zion. (Revelation 2:10; 14:1; 20:6) Hence, Christ Jesus and the resurrected anointed Christians will rule the world of mankind.

39 Concerning the rulership of the Son of man and the other resurrected “holy ones,” God’s angel said: “The kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.” (Daniel 7:27) What blessings obedient mankind will experience under that Kingdom!

 

*** w12 6/15 pp. 15-16 pars. 6-11 Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” ***

 

THE ANGLO-AMERICAN WORLD POWER AND THE FEET OF IRON AND CLAY

7 What is the relationship between the seventh head of the wild beast and the immense image? Britain—and by extension, the United States—grew out of the Roman Empire. What, though, about the feet of the image? They are described as an amalgam of iron and clay. (Read Daniel 2:41-43.) This description coincides with the time when the seventh head—the Anglo-American World Power—would come to prominence. Just as an iron structure mixed with clay is weaker than solid iron, so too the Anglo-American World Power is weaker than the power from which it emerged. How?

8 At times, the seventh head of the beast has displayed ironlike characteristics. For example, it proved its power by winning World War I. During World War II, the ironlike power of the seventh head was also evident. After that war, the seventh head at times still displayed ironlike characteristics. However, from early on, that iron has been mixed with clay.

9 Jehovah’s servants have long sought to understand the symbolic meaning of the feet of the image. Daniel 2:41 describes the mixture of iron and clay as one “kingdom,” not many. The clay, therefore, represents elements within the sphere of influence of the Anglo-American World Power, elements that make it weaker than the solid iron of the Roman Empire. The clay is referred to as “the offspring of mankind,” or the common people. (Dan. 2:43) In the Anglo-American World Power, people have risen up to claim their rights through civil rights campaigns, labor unions, and independence movements. The common people undermine the ability of the Anglo-American World Power to act with ironlike strength. Also, opposing ideologies and close election results that do not end up in a clear majority have weakened the power base of even popular leaders, so that they have no clear mandate to implement their policies. Daniel foretold: “The kingdom will partly prove to be strong and will partly prove to be fragile.”—Dan. 2:42; 2 Tim. 3:1-3.

10 In the 21st century, Britain and the United States have continued their special partnership, often acting together in world affairs. The prophecies about the immense image and the wild beast confirm that the Anglo-American World Power will not be replaced by some future world power. This last world power may be weaker than that represented by the legs of iron, but it will not disintegrate on its own.

11 Does the number of toes of the image have special meaning? Consider: In other visions, Daniel mentions specific numbers—for example, the number of horns on the heads of various beasts. Those numbers are significant. However, when describing the image, Daniel does not mention the number of toes. Therefore, the number seems no more significant than the fact that the image had multiple arms, hands, fingers, legs, and feet. Daniel does specifically mention that the toes would be made of iron and clay. From his description, we can conclude that the Anglo-American World Power is the one that will be dominating when the “stone” representing God’s Kingdom hits the feet of the image.—Dan. 2:45.

 

 

Who rules the world right now?

 

The Rulers of the World Identified

There is no need to guess at the matter, for the Bible clearly shows that an intelligent, unseen person has been controlling both men and nations. It says: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” And the Bible identifies him, saying: “The one called Devil and Satan . . . is misleading the entire inhabited earth.”—1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9.

On an occasion when Jesus was “tempted by the Devil,” Jesus did not question Satan’s role as the ruler of this world. The Bible explains what happened: “The Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: ‘All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.’ Then Jesus said to him: ‘Go away, Satan!’”—Matthew 4:1, 8-10.

Think about this. Satan tempted Jesus by offering him “all the kingdoms of the world.” Yet, would Satan’s offer have been a real temptation if Satan was not actually the ruler of these kingdoms? No, it would not. And note, Jesus did not deny that all these worldly governments were Satan’s, which he would have done if Satan did not have power over them. So, then, Satan the Devil really is the unseen ruler of the world! The Bible, in fact, calls him “the god of this system of things.” (2 Corinthians 4:4) Yet, how did such a wicked person ever come into this powerful position?

The one who became Satan had been an angel created by God, but he became envious of God’s position. He challenged God’s rightful rulership. To this end he used a serpent as a mouthpiece to deceive the first woman, Eve, and was thus able to get her and her husband, Adam, to do his bidding rather than obey God. (Genesis 3:1-6; 2 Corinthians 11:3) He also claimed he could turn all of Adam and Eve’s yet unborn offspring away from God. So God allowed time for Satan to try to prove his claim, but Satan has not succeeded.—Job 1:6-12; 2:1-10.

Significantly, Satan is not alone in his rulership of the world. He was successful in persuading some of the other angels to join him in rebellion against God. These became demons, his spirit accomplices. The Bible speaks of them when it urges Christians: “Stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but . . . against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.”—Ephesians 6:11, 12.

 

Why we must pray for the Kingdom to come

 

*** w15 6/15 pp. 22-24 Live in Harmony With the Model Prayer—Part I ***

“LET YOUR KINGDOM COME”

11 Before Jesus ascended to heaven, his apostles asked: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” Jesus’ answer showed that it was not the time for them to know when God’s Kingdom would start ruling. He told his disciples to focus on the important witnessing work that they needed to do. (Read Acts 1:6-8.) Nevertheless, Jesus taught his followers to look forward to the coming of God’s Kingdom. So Christians since the days of the apostles have been praying for it to come.

12 When the time approached for God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus to start ruling from heaven, Jehovah helped his people to understand the timing of events. In 1876, an article written by Charles Taze Russell was published in the magazine Bible Examiner. That article, “Gentile Times: When Do They End?,” pointed to 1914 as a significant year. The article linked the “seven times” of Daniel’s prophecy with “the appointed times of the nations” spoken of by Jesus.—Dan. 4:16; Luke 21:24.

13 In 1914, war broke out between nations of Europe—a war that spread and engulfed the whole world. By the time it ended in 1918, terrible food shortages had been experienced and there was a flu epidemic in which more people died than were killed in the war. Thus “the sign” that Jesus had given to identify his invisible presence as earth’s new King started to be fulfilled. (Matt. 24:3-8; Luke 21:10, 11) Ample evidence points to the year 1914 as the time when “a crown was given” to the Lord Jesus Christ. He “went out conquering and to complete his conquest.” (Rev. 6:2) He cleansed the heavens in a war against Satan and his demons, who were hurled down to the vicinity of the earth. Ever since, mankind has experienced the truthfulness of these inspired words: “Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”—Rev. 12:7-12.

14 The prophecy recorded at Revelation 12:7-12 explains why the birth of God’s Kingdom basically coincided with the beginning of the disastrous events that continue to plague mankind. Jesus, the King of God’s Kingdom, began to rule amid his enemies. Until his conquest is complete and he has brought an end to wickedness on earth, we will continue to pray for God’s Kingdom to come. At the same time, we must live in harmony with such prayers by sharing in the fulfillment of a most amazing feature of “the sign.” Jesus foretold: “This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”—Matt. 24:14.

“LET YOUR WILL TAKE PLACE . . . ON EARTH”

15 About 6,000 years ago, God’s will was being done perfectly on earth. That is why Jehovah could look upon the fine start he had given to mankind and say: “It was very good.” (Gen. 1:31) Then Satan rebelled, and ever since, comparatively few humans have done God’s will on earth. But today we are privileged to be alive at a time when about eight million Witnesses not only are praying for God’s will to take place on earth but also are striving to live in harmony with that prayer. They do so by their way of life and by having a zealous share in the disciple-making work.

16 For example, a sister who was baptized in 1948 and who served as a missionary in Africa says: “In line with this part of the model prayer, I often pray that all sheeplike people will be contacted and helped to come to know Jehovah before it is too late. Also, when I am about to witness to someone, I ask for wisdom to reach the person’s heart. And regarding sheeplike ones who have already been found, I pray that Jehovah will bless our efforts to care for them.” Little wonder that this 80-year-old sister has success in her ministry and, along with aid from others, has helped many to become Jehovah’s Witnesses. No doubt you can think of other good examples of individuals who pour themselves out in doing God’s will despite the limitations of old age.—Read Philippians 2:17.

17 Until the enemies of God’s Kingdom are removed from the earth, we will continue to pray for God’s will to be done. Then we will see God’s will taking place in an even more complete way as billions are resurrected on a paradise earth. “Do not be amazed at this,” Jesus said, “for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [my] voice and come out.” (John 5:28, 29) What a wonderful time to be alive to welcome back our dead loved ones! God “will wipe out every tear from [our] eyes.” (Rev. 21:4) Most resurrected ones will be “the unrighteous,” who lived and died without learning the truth about Jehovah God and his Son. It will be a privilege to impart knowledge of God’s will and purpose to resurrected ones, thereby helping them to qualify for “everlasting life.”—Acts 24:15; John 17:3.

18 Universal peace and harmony depend on the sanctification of Jehovah’s name by means of God’s Kingdom. Thus, the complete answer to the first three requests of the model prayer will fulfill mankind’s greatest needs. Meanwhile, we have other vital needs that are mentioned in the remaining four requests in Jesus’ model prayer. They will be discussed in the following article.

 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This could get really fun, and cover a lot of different topics, and you know that I probably couldn't stop myself from joining in.  But another "thread" would be better. I'm really not anxious to share too many ideas on Daniel and Revelation, even though I think there are several places where simpler and clearer understandings are possible. But I'm not trying to give the impression that I "know" anything more than you or anyone else on all these matters. And I think I've probably caused enough confusion or commotion in the way I brought up 1914 this time.

Let us know when you start the new thread please! I don't have much time lately to contribute, but I am enjoying reading yours and others comments :)

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On 6/28/2017 at 2:58 PM, Gnosis Pithos said:

Then, the dispensation of time prophecy is erred by marking Jesus king in 33CE. That would nullify all the efforts Jesus made NOT to be made king by the mass crowd as suggested in John 6:15 and would misalign, what Jesus meant in John 18:36. Once again a none sustainable argument, until the fulfillment in 1914.

We already know from other scriptures that Jesus became king in 33 C.E. John 6:15 does not contradict the rest of the Bible at all.  As you know, John 6:15 says the following, along with a bit of context:

(John 6:12-17) 12 But when they had eaten their fill, he said to his disciples: “Gather together the fragments left over, so that nothing is wasted.” 13 So they gathered them together and filled 12 baskets with fragments left over by those who had eaten from the five barley loaves. 14 When the people saw the sign he performed, they began to say: “This really is the Prophet who was to come into the world.” 15 Then Jesus, knowing that they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again to the mountain all alone. 16 When evening fell, his disciples went down to the sea, 17 and boarding a boat, they set out across the sea for Ca·perʹna·um. By now it had grown dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them.

This particular crowd may have wanted to make him king based on the fact that he could provide earthly things, such as food, and as you already pointed out, we know that Jesus would later say, in John 18:

(John 18:36, 37) . . .“My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.” 37 So Pilate said to him: “Well, then, are you a king?” Jesus answered: “You yourself are saying that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, . . .

Also, notice that Jesus did not condemn a different crowd who would also declare him king, and Jesus even helped set up the scenario:

(Matthew 21:1-9) 21 When they got close to Jerusalem and arrived at Bethʹpha·ge on the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them: “Go into the village that is within sight, and you will at once find a donkey tied and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3 If someone says anything to you, you must say, ‘The Lord needs them.’ At that he will immediately send them.” 4 This actually took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet, who said: 5 “Tell the daughter of Zion: ‘Look! Your king is coming to you, mild-tempered and mounted on a donkey, yes, on a colt, the offspring of a beast of burden.’” 6 So the disciples went and did just as Jesus had instructed them. 7 They brought the donkey and its colt, and they put their outer garments on them, and he sat on them. 8 Most of the crowd spread their outer garments on the road, while others were cutting down branches from the trees and spreading them on the road. 9 Moreover, the crowds going ahead of him and those following him kept shouting: “Save, we pray, the Son of David! Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name! Save him, we pray, in the heights above!”

This is a low-cost version of what the people of that time period termed a "PAROUSIA." As the New World Translation Appendix stated:

*** Rbi8 p. 1577 5B Christ’s Presence (Parousia) ***
Also, Bauer, p. 630, states that pa·rou·siʹa “became the official term for a visit of a person of high rank, esp[ecially] of kings and emperors visiting a province.”

This type of royal visitation (parousia) often took the form of a parade with joyous crowds and fanfare. Of course, to a disobedient province, such a visitation (parousia) could also include a display of judgment against enemies of the state.

On 6/28/2017 at 2:58 PM, Gnosis Pithos said:

Some of Russell’s followers leaned toward Adventism, while Russell himself didn’t. An early problem of a nondenominational church that voted their Elders in, and was independent of Russell’s primary church the people's pulpit. The same can be said about publications like the Bible Examiner.

This is mostly true. Russell used the name Watch Tower for the primary corporation for nearly 40 years, incorporated officially for more than 30 of those years. The People's Pulpit, of course, was just an alternative name for the purpose of owning property in New York that the Pennsylvania corporation hadn't been set up for. (It could have been expanded for that purpose, but Russell had personal reasons to move all money out of Pennsylvania during his divorce.) But Russell only used that alternative name for 7 years before he died. Later it was changed from People's Pulpit [of New York] to "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society [of New York]"

On 6/28/2017 at 2:58 PM, Gnosis Pithos said:

While Storrs and others continued a path inconsistent with that of Russell, Russell relied only on what Scripture showed. So, once again, 1914 is scripturally sound through Russell’s reasoning,

Russell continued to rely on a chronological system that promoted each of the following dates as specially marked in prophecy or predicted in prophecy. Almost all of them were still distinctly considered Biblically significant, and still being published "in print" in the publications until at least a decade after Russell died.

  • 1776
  • 1780
  • 1798
  • 1799
  • 1800
  • 1829
  • 1833
  • 1840
  • 1844
  • 1846
  • c.1859
  • 1872
  • 1873
  • 1874
  • 1875
  • 1876
  • 1878
  • 1879
  • 1881
  • 1910
  • c.1911
  • 1912
  • 1914
  • 1915
  • 1918 (date predicted in 1917, based on Russell's writings, 8.5 months after his death)
  • 1920 (date predicted in 1917, based on Russell's writings, 8.5 months after his death)

So, tell me again, how Russell relied only on what the Scripture showed that made the 1914 date "scripturally sound."

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