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Queen Esther

Baptism of Children by Jehovah's Witnesses

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17 hours ago, Witness said:

What were those certain things?  Do you remember?  From what I recall they had to do with politics and not scripture. 

A combination especially to a number of occasions I told you to stop mixing Scripture. And it was more on that, one discussion regarding God's order whereas you made the claim I am misogyny when I am not, you used typos against me 2 times whereas the latter information rebukes you.

No Scripture? If I recall, these can easily be looked up, so it is best you not assume out of the blue in this regard.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

The term, "Truther" is very foreign to me. 

If that was the case, why assume it was a title? Plus I had stated this, even alluded to this in the past whereas I told you time and time again regarding you pressing conspiracy and or a falsehood as a truth, i.e. assuming Satan was the one who took it upon himself to go after the Egyptians, and or twice where you twisted strongs, assuming a metaphorical use was literal, only in these situations, you have been refuted with absolute undeniable truth. You said it yourself, you do not go that deep into things, but quick to jump on the caravan when something that is correct is professed.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

If I remain in Christ, I remain in truth.

Then take up the advise I told you last time, to stop scraping your scraping and bruising yourself, when it comes to seeking truth, but you continue to do so time and time again. And since the discussion is about baptism, it should not be alien to you as to all things pretianing to such.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

"Truther" sounds like a member of a cult.

Actually no. I gave you a legitimate definition of the word. a Truther does not align or identify him or herself with anything pretiaining to conspiracy, or cults that profess conspiracy. 

That being said, you just said the term was unknown to you, need I post an actual link of the word itself which is, in common use, of those who profess what is truth in the sea of lies?

17 hours ago, Witness said:

If you've used it before, I may have skimmed over it when glancing at your rather long posts. 

And yet before you made a response to them a number of times. In fact, you made a couple of responses, i.e. inspired and not inspired prophets.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

You've probably written a book, just to me, which I won't  finish reading.  Let's not start another one.  :)

You're not too bad yourself with your pear novels, but that being said, we should not be diving deep into conspiracy and or falsehood and profess it as truth at all.

Now pretianing to all things regarding baptism, it should not be unknown to you of the eagerness of those who seek to be baptize, to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth, and in the end, wanting to show a total and great service to God the Father. There is a reason I alluded to the origins of baptism, but if you want to speak truth, I allow you to go first in this regard, since it seems people want to alienate the context of Jesus' words and to plight over claims of twisting.

That being said, a bit of humor, if you mix verses again or give conspiracy as a truth, I will give you an Encyclopedia, signed off by the Trinitarian, cos.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Now pretianing to all things regarding baptism, it should not be unknown to you of the eagerness of those who seek to be baptize, to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth, and in the end, wanting to show a total and great service to God the Father. There is a reason I alluded to the origins of baptism, but if you want to speak truth, I allow you to go first in this regard, since it seems people want to alienate the context of Jesus' words and to plight over claims of twisting.

"to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth."  My comment here was about Watchtower's baptisms, which do NOT follow the teachings of the teacher - Jesus Christ.   This is truth.  I will not entertain your whim to degrade anything and everything I have said here.

Fire away, SM.  :)  I am finished.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

"to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth."  My comment here was about Watchtower's baptisms, which do NOT follow the teachings of the teacher - Jesus Christ. 

Reasons why I alluded to the origins of Baptism, if you do not mind me asking, do you realize what took place after Jesus' ascension regarding baptism, and in regards to what I said before, you are aware of the very symbolic reason as to why John baptized his people in the Jordan River, right?

That being said, if that was the case, you wouldn't be this focused on the term "Truther" alone when my response had more to say on baptism, this also goes into my older response regarding infant baptism, which is legitimately unbiblical.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

 This is truth. 

Then speak truth. Mixing spoiled milk with good milk is not good for anyone, and clearly, if someone takes a sip of such, they will speak up about it. One thing for certain, if you understood what is known about baptism in the Jordan River, you'd realize the joy of the people in regards to what this means, especially for John, it was not about repentance alone - it is far more than that, and the Bible speaks of this.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I will not entertain your whim to degrade anything and everything I have said here.

You'd be wise to not speak of degrading, for last I checked, you shifted a spiritual structure so greatly, even the latter was against you.

That being said, since the discussion is about baptism in of itself, why is it that John baptized his people in the Jordan River?

And if I am to make the assumption, are you among the fold who halts one who seeks baptism and willingness to profess the teachings of the teacher, Christ Jesus who is Lord?

Secondly I am sure you are aware of those who hears God's Word pretianing to baptism, yes?

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Fire away, SM.  :)  I am finished.  

Speak your peace regarding baptism and if need be, it's origin. Hopefully no outlandish claims, and this time, direct.

That being said, if the young ones seek, and they are ready and worked hard for it, why should we withhold them from progressing, they and their household? Withhold them from glorifying God even more alongside brothers and sisters who follow the teachings of the teacher as well? Unless, you are purposely forgetting Apostle Paul, who, in this sense, was not doing things or saying things out of opinion.

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4 hours ago, Witness said:

"to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth."  My comment here was about Watchtower's baptisms, which do NOT follow the teachings of the teacher - Jesus Christ.   This is truth.  I will not entertain your whim to degrade anything and everything I have said here.

Fire away, SM.  :)  I am finished.  

 

 

I just realize it wasn't under this topic, but...

 

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18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

if the young ones seek, and they are ready and worked hard for it,

This statement right here is unbiblical.  For reference see acts 8:34-38

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10 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

This statement right here is unbiblical.  For reference see acts 8:34-38

For starters, the passage as a whole, Philip and the Eunuch is verses 26-40, excluding verse 37 because it is not an authentic verse. And no, what was said isn’t unbiblical. When a person has been studying the word diligently, becoming hearers of the word and embraces it, they will most likely seek baptism on their own accord, and as stated before, in doing so, they accept the teachings of the teacher, Lord Christ Jesus (Acts 2:38, 41). Moreover, it is already known that God sees such ones, even those of a household as holy.
Now what you just posted was the part of the passage, Philip and the Eunuch (The Ethiopian Eunuch), and I take it you didn’t care to even explain yourself in this regard, in which I can see why.


Acts 8:26-40 (excluding 37)

Quote

Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch
[26] Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place.[27] And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship [28] and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. [29] And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” [30] So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” [31] And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. [32] Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
    and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
    so he opens not his mouth.
[33] In his humiliation justice was denied him.
    Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” [35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. [36] And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [38] And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. [39] And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. [40] But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

A Eunuch was someone is tasked to take charge of beds in lodging room areas of secluded princesses, also refers to a man who has been castrated, as well as an ineffectual person. According to Deuteronomy 23:1, a Eunuch was not allowed to be part among the congregates of God’s people, however regarding the passage in the book of Acts, not a literal Eunuch, but rather someone who serves in some royal court regarding the person in the passage and he was likely a circumcised proselyte (not a Jew) who had mostly likely heard and embrace the teachings of God and having gone to the city to profess religious worship, only later on he learns of the message Phillip gave to him. In the passage this person, the Eunuch, was in under the Queen of Ethiopia, in charge of the treasury and in the passage, we know that Phillip crossed paths with this person and preached the gospel to him.


Regarding the baptism, Christians attain knowledge and a precise understanding of God’s Word, again, those who hear and accept, capable ones, which is indeed biblical, and such ones soon accept the teachings of the Christ. Learning from Acts 2 regarding Pentecost, the people in the city at the time, were together in worship and in faith, already having knowledge of God, what is spoken of in the Hebrew Text, and the teaching of the Messianic Age whereas this was professed clearly, to all, regarding the Messiah, that is Jesus Christ, even by Simon Peter who proclaimed this strongly and the end result of such, those who came forth and took ear, listened, they heard, and they embraced, and obviously enough, they were baptized, taking up the teachings of the teacher, again, Jesus, hence the preaching of the good news gospel and the Messianic Age.

Back to Phillip, when he proclaimed the word, the people believed and they embraced it after hearing it, and earlier on we see the people, such as those in Samaria, ended up being baptized (Acts 8:4-8, 12-14), and this in of itself is quite evident and clear because it is evident that after Jesus preached to a Samaritan woman, at the Well of Jacob, at the base of Mount Gerizim, and soon, the message that Jesus professed came on to the Samaritan people, they ended up putting faith in the teacher himself put faith in him and accepting what he taught (John 4:27-42), for the Messiah, the one that the Samaritans had waited for, paved a way for people such as Phillip to spread this message.


Now, the Ethiopian Eunuch, had knowledge of God as well as knowing fully well of the Hebrew Text. Phillip proclaim the word, the message and fulfillment of the text regarding the Messiah, to which the Ethiopian Eunuch embraced this message, and evidently, he was (wanted to be) baptized, prior, he even asked to be baptized when they sought for a body of water, stopped the chariot, to commence the baptism (Ritual Washing as it was called) once a source was found, rejoicing afterwards. This but one of several examples, i.e. what we read about a guard who was about to commit suicide, but was given the message of the Christ, Jesus, and he was baptized, and eventually his household was baptized (Acts 16:16-24, 25-39).


That being said, as you can see, a person from another nation, who was a proselyte, evidently sought baptism, and evidently, he received it, and it isn’t unknown here that he embraced the teachings pretianing to the Christ (good news gospel, Messianic Age, fulfillment of Scripture, etc.), even with what he knew and what more he heard from Phillip in this regard.
Therefore, it is not unbiblical should any person from any nation, who embraces the word, attains wisdom in this sense and seeks baptism, etc. In the end, such ones are hearers of the word, most importantly, in regards to baptism and how it translates to Christian baptism, we become alive in the Will of God as well.

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@Witness You never pointed out as to what exactly it is that is wrong here. You do realize how the church of the Christ harmoniously connects with the Christian people - right? Reasons why I did ask you a question: Why is it that John the Baptism baptized his people in the Jordan River?

As a hint, this isn't concerning repentance in this regard, but pertains to baptism origin, in this sense.

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8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

When a person has been studying the word diligently,

show me where in the Bible it says you must "study diligently". 

 

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Now what you just posted was the part of the passage, Philip and the Eunuch (The Ethiopian Eunuch), and I take it you didn’t care to even explain yourself in this regard, in which I can see why.

bahahahaha, you mean your education on what a eunuch is? bahahahahahaha

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Now, the Ethiopian Eunuch, had knowledge of God as well as knowing fully well of the Hebrew Text. Phillip proclaim the word, the message and fulfillment of the text regarding the Messiah, to which the Ethiopian Eunuch embraced this message, and evidently, he was (wanted to be) baptized, prior, he even asked to be baptized when they sought for a body of water, stopped the chariot, to commence the baptism (Ritual Washing as it was called) once a source was found, rejoicing afterwards. This but one of several examples, i.e. what we read about a guard who was about to commit suicide, but was given the message of the Christ, Jesus, and he was baptized, and eventually his household was baptized (Acts 16:16-24, 25-39).

completely irrelevant! so you telling us the story again proves what? NOTHING. It is a fact that the eunuch was baptized, but he didn't even know what he was reading! verses 31&31. Give me a break sm, you stretch things so far to try and validate yourself its on the border of narcissism.

 

Was baptism necessary for the thief on the cross next to Jesus? NOPE. 

 

 

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I would add this was during the time when Saul was playing the round up game with Christians. And also people went to the Temple of Jehovah to obersve and worship. But yeah, what our official man of the hour didn't know was about the Christ, we see that the Eunuch didn't understand what that he was reading in a particular chapter Hebrew Scriptures, he needed spiritual guidance. An interesting note is him even trying to study something that deep to begin with,  even reading it out loud, let alone having the book of Isaiah with him. What he was reading is the prophecy of Isaiah found in chapter 53

7 He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted, But he would not open his mouth. He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter, Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers, And he would not open his mouth. 8 Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away; And who will concern himself with the details of his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living; Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke.

When asked if he understood what he was reading, he didn't know unless guided and a-day, Philip gives the good news about Jesus.

35 Philip began to speak, and starting with this scripture, he declared to him the good news about Jesus.

 

 

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On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

show me where in the Bible it says you must "study diligently". 

 

You pick apart my words and assume. If you read my response you can see I cited the verses regarding those who embrace the word, those who hear it. To quote exactly what I said [When a person has been studying the word diligently, becoming hearers of the word and embraces it, they will most likely seek baptism on their own accord, and as stated before, in doing so, they accept the teachings of the teacher, Lord Christ Jesus (Acts 2:38, 41). Moreover, it is already known that God sees such ones, even those of a household as holy.] Moreover, we are encouraged to read God’s word daily, observe, study, and if you are feeling it, even recite (for some loved to quote a verse and speak on context based on study and memorization, i.e. John 4), and there is no problem with observing and applying God’s Word even in our lives (2 Timothy 3:14-17, Deut. 17:18-20, Amos 8:11, Psalms 1, 19:10-11, 119:9 and Acts 17:11).

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

bahahahaha, you mean your education on what a eunuch is? bahahahahahaha

Want to explain this?

The passage begins with Philip being told by an angel of God set for from Jerusalem to Gaza, and in his travels is where he had encountered the Ethiopian Eunuch, but the man in the passage was not like the Eunuchs who could not even go to the temple to observe and religiously worship God, hence what was already said in my last response. In Acts 8:26-40, we clearly read that he had just gone from the Temple, for it was not unknown to anyone here that the observing and partaking of religious worship to God takes place here, and as to what he didn’t know what he was reading it was concerning the Christ, fulfillment pertaining to the Lord, reasons why I stated that Phillip explained to the Eunuch in regards to fulfillment of the Scripture concerning the Christ, for he couldn’t even apply who it connects to the Christ until it was explained to him, afterwards fully embracing such the gospel given to him.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

completely irrelevant!

How exactly? Do tell.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

so you telling us the story again proves what? NOTHING.

Actually, it does prove something regarding insight drawn from the passage itself. For you brought up a portion of this passage and said what I have said was unbiblical, i.e. wanting to be baptized.

Clearly the Eunuch heard and embrace the gospel concerning the Christ and he was baptized, hence accepting the teachings of the teacher, the Christ, so how is it nothing and unbiblical if such equates to what I addressed before?

regarding the Son of God, as is with all who seek to follow the teacher who explained the teachings.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

It is a fact that the eunuch was baptized, 

Ok. We mustn’t forget that he sought baptism after he was a hearer of the message concerning the Christ, being touched by this message, the is no question that the Eunuch was joy filled with the experience and as to what he had learned exactly what he was reading, thanks to Phillip, regarding the Christ.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

he didn't even know what he was reading! verses 31&31. 

And this is why afterwards Phillip explained to him these things concerning the Christ, (which he didn't know, if I may add, reading, as you said) and the Eunuch embraced this message that Phillip professed, which I stated already, hence, verse 31.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

Give me a break sm, you stretch things so far to try and validate yourself its on the border of narcissism.

And how am I validating myself exactly? A sole response regarding baptism and suddenly it becomes problematic and yet originally it is said to heed command.

And no, no narcissism here, not even close. But this is a new one for I was called misogynistic, which was unfounded, along with other things that people cannot bear claim to. I don’t lack empathy, I do not consider myself important for I have said before, here, elsewhere, and with the public, I do not consider myself above others or show high admiration of myself. Religiously and culturally, this is not in me to do, even if I sought after it, which in turns denies me of two things mentioned.

That being said, if I am quoted and mentioned, even questioned at times, I will make a response. If you wanted a break why continue to ask and make a response to me when this was not even the first time?

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

Was baptism necessary for the thief on the cross next to Jesus?

Baptismal regeneration? That’s nice. But it's been a while since someone said something in connection to it based on assumption. Now the Thief was in an interesting position. The thief showed respect to the Christ and said what he said in Luke 23:42 for Jesus to remember him and we see Jesus’ response in the next verse.

Clearly, he was not baptized, in addition, he not was he a disciple of the Christ, he was not among those who had gained the spirit, he was not a church convert or observer, let alone was he even aware of any command given compared to the rest. Some in the mainstream would teach their church communities that the thief has been baptized way beforehand, even using spurious verses to justify it just as they do with infant baptism, but it is common knowledge to know that this is not the case, hence what is just said. Nothing is held against those in regards to salvation. Some, such as the thief (and or anyone who before and or after him), never got the chance because of not hearing or being taught God’s word, they end up dying before knowing God or anything pertaining to him or his Christ, etc.

To be very simple, as I am vocal of it already, Baptism is a declaration or a Christian’s faith. We get baptized knowing that we not only accept the teacher as our, Lord, our Savior and our Christ, but we take up his teachings as well, for, as I said, he is our teacher, reasons why when it comes to death unto life, such pertains to it.

That being said, you seem to be confusing with what I said with baptismal regeneration. I am clearly not a Baptist, nor am I a Catholic, and it is not hard to make the distinction between such ones in regards to Baptism.

Like you said, we should be heeding command. When it comes to baptism, those who seek it, we are clothed with Christ, and not only do we accept him, or make declaration, we accept what he had taught.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Shiwiii said:

NOPE. 

OK. But to use something that is equated to baptismal reintegration is very distinct to what I have been saying all along. I mean, the whole infant baptism should be a dead giveaway, but you just had to say such. It is not the first time someone said it, nor will it be the last, especially when it is concerning necessary baptism for some, baptism as a declaration of faith for those who seek it, and the latter that is indeed incorrect is baptism when the person in question, such as an infant is unable to hear or observe God's word at all compared to those who can read and or write as well as speak; also no sprinkles, it is not what was done to the Christ.

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@Equivocation Exactly my point. The Eunuch had no idea what he was reading concerning the Christ, reading this straight from the Hebrew text, that is Isaiah 53. What he was reading, and or has come to was Isaiah 53:7-8:

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people?

This pertains to the Lord and Savior himself, Christ Jesus. Phillip explained things, like you said, guiding him, all things concerning the Christ based on what text from the Hebrew Scriptures he was reading and the Eunuch accepted by his own accord.

It is clearly evident of whom, for Jesus was the one cut off from the land of the living, hence the reference to Matthew 27:50, Daniel 9:26 is another among the fold of references.

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On 3/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, Space Merchant said:

You pick apart my words and assume. If you read my response you can see I cited the verses regarding those who embrace the word, those who hear it. To quote exactly what I said [When a person has been studying the word diligently, becoming hearers of the word and embraces it, they will most likely seek baptism on their own accord, and as stated before, in doing so, they accept the teachings of the teacher, Lord Christ Jesus (Acts 2:38, 41). Moreover, it is already known that God sees such ones, even those of a household as holy.]

again, these verses do not include the study part you were looking for. 

 

On 3/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, Space Merchant said:

Moreover, we are encouraged to read God’s word daily, observe, study, and if you are feeling it, even recite

of course, this is something we do to grow closer to God. However this has never been a requirement for baptism. 

 

On 3/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, Space Merchant said:

and there is no problem with observing and applying God’s Word even in our lives

no one said otherwise. You are creating a straw-man argument. 

 

On 3/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, Space Merchant said:

Want to explain this?

no I don't, because the statement was self explanatory. 

 

On 3/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, Space Merchant said:

Actually, it does prove something regarding insight drawn from the passage itself. For you brought up a portion of this passage and said what I have said was unbiblical, i.e. wanting to be baptized.

no, what I said was that your statement of having to study to be baptized is unbiblical. You have still failed to prove otherwise. The eunuch did not study as a requirement and the scripture shows just that. He had no idea what he was reading, nor whom it was about. is wasn't until Philip explained it to him did he understand. So having to study IS unbiblical as a requirement for baptism. It certainly helps, and should be done to understand what it is you are even professing, but not a requirement. 

 

On 3/8/2019 at 6:41 PM, Space Merchant said:

If you wanted a break why continue to ask and make a response to me when this was not even the first time?

this makes me think that maybe English is not your first language. "Gimme a break" is an expression. 

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8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

again, these verses do not include the study part you were looking for. 

You pulled a phrase from my statement, and if you read what I said I clearly stated the following [When a person has been studying the word diligently] nothing here to which I had said that there is a verse that says what you are so focused on. However, the Bible does indeed encourage study.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

of course, this is something we do to grow closer to God. However this has never been a requirement for baptism

Exactly the point I've made from the beginning. growing closer to God and glorying him, serving the teacher, his Son, Jesus. Your other comments draws assumption to baptismal regeneration, which is something I am against.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

no one said otherwise. You are creating a straw-man argument. 

No, what I said is based on the context of what I've been saying, take a good look at that response again, Shiwiii.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

no, what I said was that your statement of having to study to be baptized is unbiblical. You have still failed to prove otherwise.

Reading and studying allows us to learn about God, his Son and the Kingdom. As to where am I pointing that is a necessary requirement for baptism when most of what I said was those who seek baptism?

Where are you drawing this from my statement? Learning about God and reading about what he has done for his people is taking in wisdom. Baptism is for those who seek it, be it they have some understanding of God's Word already. If there is an issue about one learning about who God is, I am all ears.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

The eunuch did not study as a requirement and the scripture shows just that.

Did you not read what I had said about the Eunuch? The Eunuch was leaving the Temple in Jerusalem, he was already aware of worship and sacrifices made to God being done in the Temple. What he did not understand was what he was reading from the Hebrew Text concerning the Christ, in which we can read as to how that unfolded.

Again, if I am not for baptismal regeneration, why make the statement as if I am pointing that this is indeed a requirement pertaining to being saved?

If you check your reference for that passage, we see what he was reading is pointed directly at the verses in Isaiah, the Hebrew Text.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

He had no idea what he was reading, nor whom it was about.

Exactly, concerning the Christ. He did not know who it was about at all until Phillip explained it to him, and if you took note of what the Hebrew text points to, it is indeed about Christ Jesus.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

is wasn't until Philip explained it to him did he understand.

Clearly I pointed this out.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So having to study IS unbiblical as a requirement for baptism.

I don't support baptismal regeneration, so I welcome you to show me proof to claim.

Nothing I have said here is a requirement, in my response, here and older ones, I've addressed people seeking baptism they themselves learn about God, they read and they do study the word, understanding it fully, and they go on to follow as well the teachings of the teacher. Nothing of what I said, again, supports baptismal regeneration.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

It certainly helps, and should be done to understand what it is you are even professing, but not a requirement. 

If I was professing a necessary requirement, surely I would be in support of baptismal regeneration, which nothing in any of my comments here shows said response to such.

8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

this makes me think that maybe English is not your first language. "Gimme a break" is an expression. 

Because clearly English is indeed not my first language, however, I've studied it long enough to know phrases, expressions and the like. But as I said to you and others before, you make a response to be do not be surprised that I give answer. Mt first language is a combination of French and Spanish. Creole and then English.

I know what the expression is. Another English expression is "the Evidence of absence". You are alluding to me supporting baptismal regeneration and yet nothing I said supports it, why assume such to begin with?

That being said, I will say to you that there are those who believe baptism is a requirement, a necessary action in order to be saved, the same they do with infant sons and daughters to somehow purge of sin guilt. Clearly, I have stated otherwise. Also, would it not be wise you use "give me" instead of "gimmie"? Gimmie sounds childish, but it is whatever floats the boat of those who speak such.

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16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You pulled a phrase from my statement, and if you read what I said I clearly stated the following [When a person has been studying the word diligently] nothing here to which I had said that there is a verse that says what you are so focused on.

still doesn't justify your position. It does muddy the conversation more, if that is your plan. 

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Where are you drawing this from my statement?

from this statement, which I already stated is unbiblical. 

 

On 3/2/2019 at 5:02 PM, Space Merchant said:

That being said, if the young ones seek, and they are ready and worked hard for it, why should we withhold them from progressing, they and their household?

I know you cannot see it, but right here you said that if they work hard enough.......etc. Works are not a requirement for baptism, belief is. 

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On 3/12/2019 at 12:22 PM, Shiwiii said:

still doesn't justify your position. It does muddy the conversation more, if that is your plan. 

On 3/11/2019 at 7:18 PM, Space Merchant said:

Actually I had made the justification. I mentioned that one studies the Bible and suddenly you make claim that I am pulling this "studying" from a specific verse whereas the Bible encourages study, meditation, and reading of God's Word.

On 3/12/2019 at 12:22 PM, Shiwiii said:

from this statement, which I already stated is unbiblical. 

Nowhere in my comments I am in support of baptismal regeneration. So I ask again, where are you drawing this conclusion?

On 3/12/2019 at 12:22 PM, Shiwiii said:

I know you cannot see it, but right here you said that if they work hard enough.......etc. Works are not a requirement for baptism, 

Again, pulling information without merit to what I've said or understood.  Nowhere have I stated works being a requirement. If you read carefully of what I said, when one seeks baptism, they work in ways of building themselves up, reading and obverse God's Word, even glorying God.

You keep pointing to baptismal regeneration when nowhere in my statements point to requirements or a necessary means, but rather, one seeking baptism.

That being said, if you want to learn what baptismal regeneration is, I suggest reading into Catholicism, for clearly here, I am not a Catholic or part of mainstream Christendom.

So I ask you again, can you quote anything from my statements that shows me in support to baptismal regeneration?

On 3/12/2019 at 12:22 PM, Shiwiii said:

belief is. 

Well of course, hence why, I am against baptismal regeneration. But it does not stop someone from seeking baptism if they feel they are ready for it.

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16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Nowhere in my comments I am in support of baptismal regeneration

you keep doing things like this, bringing up something NO ONE said. You are only hearing what you want to hear instead of listening to what IS said. 

 

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

when one seeks baptism, they work in ways of building themselves up, reading and obverse God's Word, even glorying God.

so why is it that you couldn't just say this in the first place instead of arguing with me that one must "work" ? 

Is it because you just can't bring yourself to admit I was correct? Works for baptism IS UNBIBLICAL. 

 

Just stop with your strawman "baptismal regeneration", no one said it. 

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5 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Acts 2:37-38

your point? Are you talking about being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and of the Holy Spirit? 

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On 3/11/2019 at 11:44 AM, Shiwiii said:

again, these verses do not include the study part you were looking for. 

 

You are the one who inquired where in the Bible does it say exactly what you are focused on, you twisted my response to make it seem I said the Bible said exactly that whereas in reality, my comments showed that the Bible encourages us to obverse and study. Surely if I said "this verse says the word diligently", your comment would be understandable. But as we can see, nowhere in my comments I said exactly that in the Bible, but rather the opposite. You think I did not see what you attempted to do?

Again, what I said exactly is the following:

When a person has been studying the word diligently, becoming hearers of the word and embraces it, they will most likely seek baptism on their own accord, and as stated before, in doing so, they accept the teachings of the teacher, Lord Christ Jesus (Acts 2:38, 41).

The verse in question regarding encouragement in this domain

[38] And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [41] So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

So tell me, can you point how anywhere to where I said the Bible stated what you claim exactly? Apparently, no. You brought forth if English was my first language and I gave answer, perhaps one should be asking you the same thing.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

you keep doing things like this, bringing up something NO ONE said. You are only hearing what you want to hear instead of listening to what IS said. 

You did. You equated my responses to baptism being a requirement and or a necessary action or else, in this sense. This is called Baptismal Regeneration. Did you not consider such in your comments?

On 3/11/2019 at 11:44 AM, Shiwiii said:

of course, this is something we do to grow closer to God. However this has never been a requirement for baptism. 

 

On 3/11/2019 at 11:44 AM, Shiwiii said:

So having to study IS unbiblical as a requirement for baptism. It certainly helps, and should be done to understand what it is you are even professing, but not a requirement.

Again, not of my comments profess baptism being a requirement and or necessary, what I have stated, always, is that one can seek baptism if he or she chooses to seek it, having building themselves up working towards acquiring knowledge of who God is, his Son and the Kingdom.

You also made comment as to me believing in works over belief:

On 3/12/2019 at 12:22 PM, Shiwiii said:

I know you cannot see it, but right here you said that if they work hard enough.......etc. Works are not a requirement for baptism, belief is. 

You've been paying attention to anything I said here and on this forums, you would know of what I profess verily easily.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

so why is it that you couldn't just say this in the first place instead of arguing with me that one must "work" ? 

I am not arguing with you, but when I profess something you seem to get irked up quickly. Clearly one who is building up in their faith in professing, which pertains to baptism and observance of God's Word.

You are merely adding to me words when you keep assuming works over belief, and faith being a requirement. Even by own comments on previous threads negates your claim to evidence of absolutely nothing.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Is it because you just can't bring yourself to admit I was correct? Works for baptism IS UNBIBLICAL. 

How are you correct if you can't even bring up any of my responses pertaining to such? IF I stated time and time again one seeks baptism on his or her own accord, why push what I say into something entirely different? You keep trending your heels on baptismal regeneration against someone who is, and has been against it for years.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Just stop with your strawman "baptismal regeneration", no one said it. 

Did you not equate my responses to baptism being a requirement when I professed that people seek baptism? Anyone who believes in baptism a requirement, or a total necessary means are supports of baptismal regeneration. Because you seem unaware of this term, I did you the favor of linking it here:

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

I mean, a dead giveaway would be the fact I do not adhere to spurious and or unauthentic Bible verses whereas those who support Baptismal regeneration uses spurious text to support baptism as an absolute requirement. Not to mention the last discussion which you wanted to discuss regarding salvation.

That being said, again, if someone does not support baptismal regeneration, stop tooting the horn for it because it will give you nothing in return.

And no, no strawmans here, but the ignorance shows in regards to those of Christendom who actually do support such things; not me, because to quote you I, as well as the church, sees it as

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

UNBIBLICAL

That being said, A strawman is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

Here we see you, making claims of baptism as a requirement in regards to my responses that shed no such thing. Baptism as a necessary means of salvation and or an absolute requirement is Baptismal Regeneration, which is the belief that baptism is necessary for salvation, or, more precisely, that regeneration does not occur until a person is water baptized (they also believe babies, who cannot speak or obverse God's Word, can be baptism too, in regards to guilty of sin).

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44 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Acts 2:37-38

More of building one up and so forth. There are some Christians who believe faith over works and all that whereas a specific group avoids reading into Acts 1 and 2.

In this sense, when one learns about God and they seek him, they will take into account what Jesus had told his disciples, when he says that we must take in knowledge of the one True God.

  • John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Some denominations believe that baptism is the only way one can be saved, hence Shiwiii's misinformed response. The truth of the matter is one makes this decision on their own, yes at times, they can be encouraged, however, that choice is for them to make with God, should they want to make a declaration known in this sense, and going about following the teachings of the teacher, Christ Jesus.

Knowledge of what we read from the Scriptures, to take in everything in full context, we must read, obverse and meditate it, build up wisdom, which is indeed like treasures, and like how the Jews did for their young, we pass on this knowledge to the people, men, women and children, even to our household, and so forth.

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       Pearl Doxsey – “The GB has laid a new foundation for themselves...
      They have made themselves the cornerstone ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ), being benefactor to a NON-anointed Organization of counterfeit priests ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )...
      creating a foreign temple to a "foreign god" ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ).
      They have erected a counterfeit Mt. Zion ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ), ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
      and a decoy "Kingdom" while Satan yet rules.”
      (From “Discerning the Body-A God of Order”)  4womaninthewilderness
      Please, I ask you to consider, JWs; that you, and the authentic, anointed Body of Christ, have picked up the wrong torture stake.  Not until it is realized what “mark” you bear, does the real torture stake then present itself.  Your “opposer and cohorts” will come into focus, if you choose to enter the authentic race leading to life. Jer 17:1;  Rev 13:1,3,4,10-17; Exod 20:1-7; Luke 4:8 
      The race JWs presently run, their comparative “torture stake” in a “spiritual paradise”, is soon to come to an abrupt, and tumultuous end.   1 Thess 5:3; Rev 6:12-17; 8:8; Zech 4:7; Job 9:5,6; 14:18-22
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      (Mark of Slavery 4womaninthewilderness)
      I wrote down these thoughts just this morning when reading James chapter 1:  
      When we wake up to Wt.’s deceptions, mulling over in our minds how to deal with them; we have two choices; to either step onto the course leading to life by slaving only for God, or settle with our conscience and continue running Wt’s categorized routes, explicitly showing faith in the organization as salvation.   Deut 6:6,8; 11:18; Exod 13:9  When this choice is apparent, it is then that the Beast/org.’s threatening stance looming over us, is perceived.  Can we bear being called a “loser” by the Beast and everyone we love if we draw out of the race? Matt 5:11; Rev 11:7;13:15  Who really is it, that loses out on eternal life?  
      Tonight, I find this comment regarding a JW “sighing and crying over the detestable things” in the organization (Ezek 9:3,4):
      “Whoever the bozo is that wants to quit...go ahead and do it loser. You are "already gone"
      “A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.  And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those WHO WORSHIP THE BEAST (organization) AND ITS IMAGE, (spirit-directed “Jehovah’s organization) OR FOR ANYONE WHO RECEIVES THE MARK OF ITS NAME.” 
      This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who KEEP HIS COMMANDS AND REMAIN FAITHFUL TO JESUS.”  Rev 14:9-12
      “Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.”  James 1:12
      “You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.  For, ‘In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.’
      38 And, ‘But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back.’  39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.” Heb 10:36-39
       
       
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      In the Gospels we find John the Baptist baptizing people in the Jordan River. But where did the concept of Baptism originate? Was this a command from God that we are not told about? Did John develop the concept of Baptism? Was baptism being done before the New Testament? Why was John baptizing people in the Jordan River? Because the Bible is silent on these issues, Churches have created their own doctrines concerning baptism.
    • By Queen Esther
      3 very  young brothers baptized ?   Their smiles say it all
      Or  perhaps  they're  happy  about  the  new  booklets, before?
      *ORGANIZED  TO  DO  JEHOVAH'S  WILL*
      Whatever  for  the  next  time...  Congratulations!  and Jehovah's  blessing
    • By The Librarian
      Russian Orthodox ice water baptisms
       
       
      And they call JW’s “extremists”???
      Via
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Our brother is enjoying the moment with his parents after his baptism in Maui. 
       
       

    • Guest Nicole
    • By Outta Here
      This subject has arisen under another thread:
      As this issue takes the previous discussion off topic, a new question is asked here,
       
      see also:
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Our dear sister  lshe is happy to see her  mom and dad getting  baptized at the  Regional Convention, this makes her faith grow. 

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
    • By Bible Speaks
      The set of Likasi is regional French-speaking, Democratic Republic of the Congo in Katanga province.. We welcomed 41 new baptized to an audience of about 2,000 people.   Es el conjunto de Likasi expresión francesa regional, República Democrática del Congo, en la provincia de Katanga. Dimos la bienvenida a 41 nuevos bautizados a una audiencia de cerca de 2.000 personas. Merci beaucoup M!
    • By Bible Speaks
      The set of Likasi is regional French-speaking, Democratic Republic of the Congo in Katanga province..
      We welcomed 41 new baptized to an audience of about 2,000 people.
      Es el conjunto de Likasi expresión francesa regional, República Democrática del Congo, en la provincia
      de Katanga. Dimos la bienvenida a 41 nuevos bautizados a una audiencia de cerca de 2.000 personas.
      Merci beaucoup M!
    • By Bible Speaks
      @yngbld6 shares with us: “My son Aaron, @the.8ran.15, giving his Mom and me a big hug after his baptism at the Regional Convention in Huntsville, Alabama, USA.”
    • By Jack Ryan
      Seven and nine year olds making a life long decision which could mean their families may kick them out of the house in their late teens and shun them.
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Baptize Witnesses Today -- Men of Jehovah's Witnesses leaving beach to wade into water about 300 feet out for baptism by immersion. Scene was Orchard beach in Bronx. June 21, 1958. (Photo by William N. Jacobellis/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)

    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Minister of the Jehovah's Witnesses aid in the baptism of some of the 524 converts to the faith in a pool set up at Belmont Park Race Track. The baptism is a high-light of the four-day Witnesses Divine Sovereignty assembly, which ends tomorrow. August 08, 1975. (Photo by Nury Hernandez/New York Post Archives / (c) NYP Holdings, Inc. via Getty Images)
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