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Baptism of Children by Jehovah's Witnesses


Queen Esther

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3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

That's one thing. When it comes to being mature Spiritual wise. There are people however that believes in being guilty of sin straight out of the womb and they go and baptize children who have no idea what is going on

This alone is unbiblical. A Child, in this sense, an infant, and or baby, shouldn't be baptized at all, and the guilty of sins narrative is absurd. Only those who are capable of hearing the word and the like, seeking God and his Kingdom, and the teachings of his Son, Jesus; such ones can be baptized, regardless, for they seek it, and they shall have, and benefit in their trek of spiritual growth.

That being said, I did talk about this before:

 

3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

That ain't it chief.

Of course.

3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

But yeah, baptism is usually encouraged but it is up to the decision of the individual if they want to be baptized and serve Jehovah God. It not only shows you embrace the teachings, but also wanting to serve God.

Pretty much the jest of what I have been professing throughout since the other Bible discussions elsewhere on here.

3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Also just a little curious. You mentioned baptism origin, you were referring to the Israelites yes? Both Old and New Testament also?

Yes, ritual washing concerning the Israelites, as is with why John the Baptist baptized his people in the Jordan River itself. Find the river on a map, and look to the left, and look to the right.

3 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Lastly what place is that where you say you got baptized. 

The image shown to Mr. Butler, the location in question is Jacmel, Haiti. Baptized in 1997-1998. So I was quite young, but even before baptism I pressed forth in everything pertaining to Scripture and of God. In my case, I am just as eager as the next guy in wanting to be close to the True God and seeing his great Kingdom, and awaiting for the one of whom he installed to sit at the throne to rid all badness from the earth. Those who I known, who had perished, I wish to see them also. Reasons why since the day I opened a Bible, I continued on ever since, and growing up, some young ones whom I came across, even to this day, even among the homeless, I share the Word and give example. It also plays into the fact that I am a Truther, to some degree.

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It's nice to see children dedicating their lives to Jehovah, unfortunately they are also dedicating their lives to an idol called the wtbts in a contract for life.

Very  rare  and  never  seen  in  Europe...   a  SO  young  sister  before  her  baptism ! But  I  saw  it  in  pic's  and  reports  -  its  really  true !!   I  will  soon  post  it  here...

to touch them.... well, text speaking about touching children for blessings, not baptizing children. dear Outta Here, wrong interpretation and misapplication of bible text, for sure. 

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12 minutes ago, Witness said:

A Truther?  Another title?  

A Truther is someone who, in this sense, seeks truth to an event and or situation, someone who does not play into the MSM narrative and or conspiracy, let alone government schemes and so forth that is being pushed on to the people on a TV set, phones, etc. what have you. This should be very evident to you, Witness, when time and time again I uttered what I have been saying about accepting conspiracy and or falsehood, which goes back to our very first discussion, and even before that, regarding the very man who debated with me regarding Church Fathers. It is not much of a title, per-say, one is usually called this in regards to what was stated in this response you are reading, and or correlates with the many times I addressed to you about falsehood and conspiracy, unless you've forgotten that?

You once said to me you do not delve too deep into certain things, but I do, to separate truth from lies, and speak truth and refute lies.

That being said, it is a surprise how you missed I brought this up a couple of times when I responded to you on a number of occasions, both directly and indirectly in a sense.

one who believes that the truth about an important subject or event is being concealed from the public by a powerful conspiracy.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

You once said to me you do not delve too deep into certain things, but I do, to separate truth from lies, and speak truth and refute lies.

What were those certain things?  Do you remember?  From what I recall they had to do with politics and not scripture.    The term, "Truther" is very foreign to me.  If I remain in Christ, I remain in truth.  "Truther" sounds like a member of a cult.  If you've used it before, I may have skimmed over it when glancing at your rather long posts.  You've probably written a book, just to me, which I won't  finish reading.  Let's not start another one.  :)

 

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17 hours ago, Witness said:

What were those certain things?  Do you remember?  From what I recall they had to do with politics and not scripture. 

A combination especially to a number of occasions I told you to stop mixing Scripture. And it was more on that, one discussion regarding God's order whereas you made the claim I am misogyny when I am not, you used typos against me 2 times whereas the latter information rebukes you.

No Scripture? If I recall, these can easily be looked up, so it is best you not assume out of the blue in this regard.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

The term, "Truther" is very foreign to me. 

If that was the case, why assume it was a title? Plus I had stated this, even alluded to this in the past whereas I told you time and time again regarding you pressing conspiracy and or a falsehood as a truth, i.e. assuming Satan was the one who took it upon himself to go after the Egyptians, and or twice where you twisted strongs, assuming a metaphorical use was literal, only in these situations, you have been refuted with absolute undeniable truth. You said it yourself, you do not go that deep into things, but quick to jump on the caravan when something that is correct is professed.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

If I remain in Christ, I remain in truth.

Then take up the advise I told you last time, to stop scraping your scraping and bruising yourself, when it comes to seeking truth, but you continue to do so time and time again. And since the discussion is about baptism, it should not be alien to you as to all things pretianing to such.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

"Truther" sounds like a member of a cult.

Actually no. I gave you a legitimate definition of the word. a Truther does not align or identify him or herself with anything pretiaining to conspiracy, or cults that profess conspiracy. 

That being said, you just said the term was unknown to you, need I post an actual link of the word itself which is, in common use, of those who profess what is truth in the sea of lies?

17 hours ago, Witness said:

If you've used it before, I may have skimmed over it when glancing at your rather long posts. 

And yet before you made a response to them a number of times. In fact, you made a couple of responses, i.e. inspired and not inspired prophets.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

You've probably written a book, just to me, which I won't  finish reading.  Let's not start another one.  :)

You're not too bad yourself with your pear novels, but that being said, we should not be diving deep into conspiracy and or falsehood and profess it as truth at all.

Now pretianing to all things regarding baptism, it should not be unknown to you of the eagerness of those who seek to be baptize, to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth, and in the end, wanting to show a total and great service to God the Father. There is a reason I alluded to the origins of baptism, but if you want to speak truth, I allow you to go first in this regard, since it seems people want to alienate the context of Jesus' words and to plight over claims of twisting.

That being said, a bit of humor, if you mix verses again or give conspiracy as a truth, I will give you an Encyclopedia, signed off by the Trinitarian, cos.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Now pretianing to all things regarding baptism, it should not be unknown to you of the eagerness of those who seek to be baptize, to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth, and in the end, wanting to show a total and great service to God the Father. There is a reason I alluded to the origins of baptism, but if you want to speak truth, I allow you to go first in this regard, since it seems people want to alienate the context of Jesus' words and to plight over claims of twisting.

"to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth."  My comment here was about Watchtower's baptisms, which do NOT follow the teachings of the teacher - Jesus Christ.   This is truth.  I will not entertain your whim to degrade anything and everything I have said here.

Fire away, SM.  :)  I am finished.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

"to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth."  My comment here was about Watchtower's baptisms, which do NOT follow the teachings of the teacher - Jesus Christ. 

Reasons why I alluded to the origins of Baptism, if you do not mind me asking, do you realize what took place after Jesus' ascension regarding baptism, and in regards to what I said before, you are aware of the very symbolic reason as to why John baptized his people in the Jordan River, right?

That being said, if that was the case, you wouldn't be this focused on the term "Truther" alone when my response had more to say on baptism, this also goes into my older response regarding infant baptism, which is legitimately unbiblical.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

 This is truth. 

Then speak truth. Mixing spoiled milk with good milk is not good for anyone, and clearly, if someone takes a sip of such, they will speak up about it. One thing for certain, if you understood what is known about baptism in the Jordan River, you'd realize the joy of the people in regards to what this means, especially for John, it was not about repentance alone - it is far more than that, and the Bible speaks of this.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I will not entertain your whim to degrade anything and everything I have said here.

You'd be wise to not speak of degrading, for last I checked, you shifted a spiritual structure so greatly, even the latter was against you.

That being said, since the discussion is about baptism in of itself, why is it that John baptized his people in the Jordan River?

And if I am to make the assumption, are you among the fold who halts one who seeks baptism and willingness to profess the teachings of the teacher, Christ Jesus who is Lord?

Secondly I am sure you are aware of those who hears God's Word pretianing to baptism, yes?

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Fire away, SM.  :)  I am finished.  

Speak your peace regarding baptism and if need be, it's origin. Hopefully no outlandish claims, and this time, direct.

That being said, if the young ones seek, and they are ready and worked hard for it, why should we withhold them from progressing, they and their household? Withhold them from glorifying God even more alongside brothers and sisters who follow the teachings of the teacher as well? Unless, you are purposely forgetting Apostle Paul, who, in this sense, was not doing things or saying things out of opinion.

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4 hours ago, Witness said:

"to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth."  My comment here was about Watchtower's baptisms, which do NOT follow the teachings of the teacher - Jesus Christ.   This is truth.  I will not entertain your whim to degrade anything and everything I have said here.

Fire away, SM.  :)  I am finished.  

 

 

I just realize it wasn't under this topic, but...

 

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10 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

This statement right here is unbiblical.  For reference see acts 8:34-38

For starters, the passage as a whole, Philip and the Eunuch is verses 26-40, excluding verse 37 because it is not an authentic verse. And no, what was said isn’t unbiblical. When a person has been studying the word diligently, becoming hearers of the word and embraces it, they will most likely seek baptism on their own accord, and as stated before, in doing so, they accept the teachings of the teacher, Lord Christ Jesus (Acts 2:38, 41). Moreover, it is already known that God sees such ones, even those of a household as holy.
Now what you just posted was the part of the passage, Philip and the Eunuch (The Ethiopian Eunuch), and I take it you didn’t care to even explain yourself in this regard, in which I can see why.


Acts 8:26-40 (excluding 37)

Quote

Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch
[26] Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place.[27] And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship [28] and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. [29] And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” [30] So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” [31] And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. [32] Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
    and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
    so he opens not his mouth.
[33] In his humiliation justice was denied him.
    Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” [35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. [36] And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [38] And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. [39] And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. [40] But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

A Eunuch was someone is tasked to take charge of beds in lodging room areas of secluded princesses, also refers to a man who has been castrated, as well as an ineffectual person. According to Deuteronomy 23:1, a Eunuch was not allowed to be part among the congregates of God’s people, however regarding the passage in the book of Acts, not a literal Eunuch, but rather someone who serves in some royal court regarding the person in the passage and he was likely a circumcised proselyte (not a Jew) who had mostly likely heard and embrace the teachings of God and having gone to the city to profess religious worship, only later on he learns of the message Phillip gave to him. In the passage this person, the Eunuch, was in under the Queen of Ethiopia, in charge of the treasury and in the passage, we know that Phillip crossed paths with this person and preached the gospel to him.


Regarding the baptism, Christians attain knowledge and a precise understanding of God’s Word, again, those who hear and accept, capable ones, which is indeed biblical, and such ones soon accept the teachings of the Christ. Learning from Acts 2 regarding Pentecost, the people in the city at the time, were together in worship and in faith, already having knowledge of God, what is spoken of in the Hebrew Text, and the teaching of the Messianic Age whereas this was professed clearly, to all, regarding the Messiah, that is Jesus Christ, even by Simon Peter who proclaimed this strongly and the end result of such, those who came forth and took ear, listened, they heard, and they embraced, and obviously enough, they were baptized, taking up the teachings of the teacher, again, Jesus, hence the preaching of the good news gospel and the Messianic Age.

Back to Phillip, when he proclaimed the word, the people believed and they embraced it after hearing it, and earlier on we see the people, such as those in Samaria, ended up being baptized (Acts 8:4-8, 12-14), and this in of itself is quite evident and clear because it is evident that after Jesus preached to a Samaritan woman, at the Well of Jacob, at the base of Mount Gerizim, and soon, the message that Jesus professed came on to the Samaritan people, they ended up putting faith in the teacher himself put faith in him and accepting what he taught (John 4:27-42), for the Messiah, the one that the Samaritans had waited for, paved a way for people such as Phillip to spread this message.


Now, the Ethiopian Eunuch, had knowledge of God as well as knowing fully well of the Hebrew Text. Phillip proclaim the word, the message and fulfillment of the text regarding the Messiah, to which the Ethiopian Eunuch embraced this message, and evidently, he was (wanted to be) baptized, prior, he even asked to be baptized when they sought for a body of water, stopped the chariot, to commence the baptism (Ritual Washing as it was called) once a source was found, rejoicing afterwards. This but one of several examples, i.e. what we read about a guard who was about to commit suicide, but was given the message of the Christ, Jesus, and he was baptized, and eventually his household was baptized (Acts 16:16-24, 25-39).


That being said, as you can see, a person from another nation, who was a proselyte, evidently sought baptism, and evidently, he received it, and it isn’t unknown here that he embraced the teachings pretianing to the Christ (good news gospel, Messianic Age, fulfillment of Scripture, etc.), even with what he knew and what more he heard from Phillip in this regard.
Therefore, it is not unbiblical should any person from any nation, who embraces the word, attains wisdom in this sense and seeks baptism, etc. In the end, such ones are hearers of the word, most importantly, in regards to baptism and how it translates to Christian baptism, we become alive in the Will of God as well.

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@Witness You never pointed out as to what exactly it is that is wrong here. You do realize how the church of the Christ harmoniously connects with the Christian people - right? Reasons why I did ask you a question: Why is it that John the Baptism baptized his people in the Jordan River?

As a hint, this isn't concerning repentance in this regard, but pertains to baptism origin, in this sense.

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8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

When a person has been studying the word diligently,

show me where in the Bible it says you must "study diligently". 

 

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Now what you just posted was the part of the passage, Philip and the Eunuch (The Ethiopian Eunuch), and I take it you didn’t care to even explain yourself in this regard, in which I can see why.

bahahahaha, you mean your education on what a eunuch is? bahahahahahaha

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Now, the Ethiopian Eunuch, had knowledge of God as well as knowing fully well of the Hebrew Text. Phillip proclaim the word, the message and fulfillment of the text regarding the Messiah, to which the Ethiopian Eunuch embraced this message, and evidently, he was (wanted to be) baptized, prior, he even asked to be baptized when they sought for a body of water, stopped the chariot, to commence the baptism (Ritual Washing as it was called) once a source was found, rejoicing afterwards. This but one of several examples, i.e. what we read about a guard who was about to commit suicide, but was given the message of the Christ, Jesus, and he was baptized, and eventually his household was baptized (Acts 16:16-24, 25-39).

completely irrelevant! so you telling us the story again proves what? NOTHING. It is a fact that the eunuch was baptized, but he didn't even know what he was reading! verses 31&31. Give me a break sm, you stretch things so far to try and validate yourself its on the border of narcissism.

 

Was baptism necessary for the thief on the cross next to Jesus? NOPE. 

 

 

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