Who can really explain *GOG from MAGOG* ?

[Queen Esther]

I  can  give  you  3  Bible - scriptures....    Ezec. 38:10, 18   and  Isahia, 26:20    -   Thank  you ! 

[Witness]

Queen Esther,  I get the feeling this post will be moved to controversial.  Nonetheless, I do hope you read it.

From “God’ Kingdom Rules” Book -  Attack on religion. Recall that Paul wrote: “Whenever it is that they are saying, ‘Peace and security!’ then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them.” Just as a flash of lightning is closely followed by the crash of thunder, so the time of saying “Peace and security!” will be instantly followed by “sudden destruction.” What will be destroyed? First, “BABYLON THE GREAT,” the world empire of false religion, also known as “the prostitute.” (Rev. 17:5, 6, 15)

What religion declares “peace and security” within its borders?

Wt 15/7/15 pp. 1,2 - “Jehovah’s people enjoy a special environment of peace in the earthly part of his organization.”

Wt -5/2/15 pp. 17-2 – “Our spiritual heritage can also infuse in us a deep sense of spiritual security that can be enjoyed only within Jehovah’s organization.” 

Babylon the Great is a covenant -  a promise of death. Isa 28:15,18

Covenants are represented as “mothers” in scripture; (Gal 4:24,26)  This promise or covenant is the “mother” of her “harlot/daughters”, and there have been many of these daughters over history. The last of ‘Babylon’s’ daughters are unfaithful anointed ones who are no longer spiritual ‘virgins’ belonging to Christ, but have entered another “marriage” with their new King, Satan. 2 Cor 11:2  They are harlots, who love the authority and power Satan bestows on them in order to “wage war” with the “remaining ones of her seed”.   Rev 12:15; 12:7,11,17; 16:13-16; 17:14; 19:11,14; 20:8

Captive to lies and the threat of disfellowshipping, a spiritual “killing” results if one does choose to follow the Lamb and not an organization. Luke 21:24,20; Rev 13:5-9, 11, 14-18.  We clearly see this fulfillment now.  With the false prophet/harlot’s deceitful tongue, spiritual “Israel” is offered a false sense of “peace and security”, which is only a piece of the puzzle constituting the entire ‘refuge’ of falsehood.  

“False messiahs (false christs/anointed) and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.”  Matt 24:24

 “Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.  Rev 20:7-9

When attending the kingdom hall, can this attack by Satan, the Master of Delusion, be easily perceived?  As the Watchtower below says, the cry of peace and security is a clever facade that hides well what Satan and his harlots, disguised as “ministers” of the “angel of light” are operating against the anointed ones. 2 Cor 11:14,15; Ezek 38:10,11

 “Who will make this significant future declaration of “Peace and security”? The Scriptures do not tell us. What we do know is that no matter what form the proclamation takes or how convincing it might sound, IT WILL ONLY BE A VENEER. “w13 11/15 pp. 10-14

Not all “battles” are fought with physical weapons.

“Finally, be strengthened by the Lord and by His vast strength.  Put on the full armor of God so that you can stand against the tactics (schemes, tricks)  of the Devil.  For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens.  This is why you must take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having prepared everything, to take your stand.”  Eph 6:10-13

There are two teachings by the Watchtower on this attack by Gog and Magog against the anointed ones.

One:

As the “ GREAT TRIBULATION” moves toward its climax, God’s people will be the target of an all-out attack by “Gog of the land of Magog.” During this attack, “a numerous military force” will come against God’s people “like clouds to cover the land.” (Ezek. 38:2, 14-16) No human agency will come to the defense of Jehovah’s people. Their survival will depend on God alone. (ws12 4/15 pp. 21-26

And also:

“We are told that AT THE END OF THE 1,000 YEARS, Satan will be released from the abyss, and “he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war.” (Rev. 20:8) ws15 5/15 pp. 27-28

Ezek 38 and Rev 20, have seldom been referred together in Wt. magazines to describe this attack.  Why?  The Wt. teaches that the thousand year reign of Christ is initiated after Armageddon.  Yet, Ezekiel is used to point out that this attack happens during the great tribulation.  Is Gog and Magog defeated by Christ twice?  

Ezek 38:18-23 describe God’s judgment is executed.  Rev 20:10 states:

“The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  In both cases, judgment is final as Armageddon reaches its peak.

Ezek 38:2,14-23   

 Should you believe this attack comes before or after Armageddon?  Interestingly, in one rare occurrence of using both Ezekiel and Revelation,  the Wt. asks, “Are these different attacks? That is not likely.” (Wt 15/5/15)

Satan’s deceptive arrows of deceit are targeted in all directions leading JWs down a confusing, windy path of lies.  Babylon, in fact, means “confusion”.  

Ezek 13:6,7 

The original “Gog” was an Israelite from the tribe of Reuben; a chief who ruled over his nation of Magog by employing a skilled army from the “north”.  1 Chron 5:4 

Take a moment and read the etymology of the name, “Gog”.

Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names:

“The masculine noun גג (gag) means ROOF OR TOP, or (as HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament puts it) THE HIGHEST POINT OF AN EDIFICE. Its root is unknown and it has no sibling derivations.

The noun גג (gag) denotes most commonly the flat roof of a building on which things can take place; USUALLY TO DO WITH IDOLATROUS WORSHIP (Judges 16:27, Joshua 2:6, 2 Samuel 11:2, 2 Kings 23:12, Jeremiah 19:13 and 32:29, Zephaniah 1:5; but also Acts 10:9). Roofs were also used to PUBLISH MESSAGES, news or expressions of grief into the neighborhood (Isaiah 15:3, Matthew 10:27, Luke 12:3), and possibly as a PLACE OF REFUGE (Joshua 2:6, Isaiah 22:1, Matthew 24:17) or lodging (1 Samuel 9:25-26, 2 Samuel 16:22).

The housetop seems to indicate a CERTAIN SPIRITUAL EXPOSURE. Someone on the housetop opens himself for something, preferable something SOOTHING, or higher. Note that the ominous names Gog and Magog are derived from this root.”

 “Possibly, the rooftop is semi-synonymous to a place of worship, ESPECIALLY PAGAN WORSHIP, and Magog denotes that same inclination.”

JWs, what is your roof, your covering, your perceived spiritual high place? Is it not what your adulterous GB leaders and organization call, EARTHLY MOUNT ZION – a title deceitfully given to an earthly organization that applies only to God’s anointed TEMPLE priesthood, “the beloved city”? Ps 132:7-9,13,14;Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Rev 14:1; 21:2,3

“Gog” and “Magog” apply to both the false prophet/harlot GB, -  fallen anointed ones of spiritual “Israel” -  and to Satan and his “sea”, the organization, who spearheaded this deception.  Rev 13:1; 20:8; 16:13-16  The “northern army” that Ezekiel describes as coming against “Israel” is already upon them; it is the elder body and the pulsing heart of the organization.  God’s Temple priesthood has been replaced by a “Gentile” false priesthood that demands obedience from all. It is the abomination standing in the sanctuary/holy place/Temple, “trampling” God’s Temple by “setting itself up” over God’s priesthood.    Joel 2:2,20,25; Rev 9:3-11; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Matt 24:15; Rev 11:2 

[Shiwiii]

On 8/29/2017 at 6:49 AM, Witness said:

 

“We are told that AT THE END OF THE 1,000 YEARS, Satan will be released from the abyss, and “he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war.” (Rev. 20:8) ws15 5/15 pp. 27-28

Ezek 38 and Rev 20, have seldom been referred together in Wt. magazines to describe this attack.  Why?  The Wt. teaches that the thousand year reign of Christ is initiated after Armageddon. 

I have a question that might spur a separate thread. 

If the 1000 year reign is AFTER Armageddon, and then this battle takes place at the end of the 1000 years, who exactly is fighting who according to jw's? I mean, doesn't the society state that ONLY jw's will be saved after Armageddon? So if all that there is left is jw's, then who do they go to war against? 

Another thought, if jw's do not engage in war, then again....who is fighting here? Either it will be jw's against jw's or someone has the story wrong. 

[Witness]

 

@Shiwiii - Another thought, if jw's do not engage in war, then again....who is fighting here? Either it will be jw's against jw's or someone has the story wrong. 

The thousand year teaching is another false story of the Watchtower.

The false prophet and Wild Beast and Gog and Magog both have the same purpose, to destroy the anointed ones.  So, both groups mirror each other.  To see who is fighting who, it’s good to compare each group’s identities. 

Wild Beast - The beast was given a mouth to utter boasts and blasphemies. It was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.  It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme his name and his dwelling (Temple 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:5,9) —those who dwell in heaven. Rev 13:5,6  Heb 12:22; Rev 5:9,10; Jer 7:30; 25:29 

- “And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. Rev 13:7

False prophet – “It also performs great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in front of people.  It deceives those who live on the earth because of the signs that it is permitted to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who live on the earth to make an image of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.” Rev 13:13,14

 Gog and Magog: “Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison (guarded) and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle,  whose number is as the sand of the sea.  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.  Rev 20:7     Ezek 7:1-4

In both cases, “fire” is used to “consume” and “conquer”; the saints with deceit – uttering blasphemies against God; and ultimately, fire from God. The word of truth is like “fire”/spirit which faithful ones use to fight off Satan’s counterfeit fire  - a counterfeit “truth”; lies spoken through false prophets by another spirit/fire, than that of God’s.  Jer 23:29; Ps 29:7; Jer 5:14; Matt 10:20; Hos 6:5; Rev 11:5; Job 1:16; 2 Cor 11:4; 2 Thess  2:3,9,10;  2 Pet 2:7; Rev 16:13,14 

Watchtower teaches that the Beast/false prophet is the political governments today represented by the UN. The UN does not “wage war with the saints” or blaspheme God’s Temple (1 Cor 3:16,17); in fact, representatives affiliated with the UN, came to the defense of JWs in Russia.

Side point:  Revelation’s “kings of the earth” are the anointed ones (as well as “horns”); as is the two horned false prophet/harlot/beast from the earth. Rev 1:5; 5:10;13:11;17:2; 21:22-27; Isa 66:1 The two sides of Armageddon’s battle involves these kings. 

 Only the Watchtower both “wages war” with the anointed by silencing them into submission, and blasphemes God’s Temple by enforcing a false priesthood to rule with authority over the anointed ones. Matt 24:15 When an anointed one rejects such claims, they are disfellowshipped or “killed” by the Beast/organization.  Nowhere does the UN “kill” the anointed ones, or are even aware of what God’s heavenly Temple/Zion consists of. 
(it-2 pp. 1076-1083)

An early “anointed/saint”, the apostle Paul said,

“For although we live in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh,  since the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but are powerful through God for the demolition of strongholds. We demolish arguments  and every proud thing that is raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to obey Christ.  And we are ready to punish any disobedience, once your obedience is complete.”  2 Cor 10:3-6

There it is, the war against falsehood strongholds (the organization) and the true knowledge of God through our obedience to Christ and truth.

Armageddon is this war.  2 Thess 2:7,8 – “For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way, and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of his mouth (Holy Spirit/”fire”) and will bring him to nothing at the appearance of his coming.

Jesus’ army equipped with “fire” comes up against Satan’s false prophet/Beast.  Jer 20:9; Rev 12:7-9  By its own admission, the Beast and false prophet are present, therefore, so is Gog and Magog. 

I should get back to the point.  The “thousand years” began when Christ sat down on his throne (1 Cor 15:24-27; Matt 10:34; Ps 110:1,2) and ended when Satan was no longer “restrained”.  Rev 13:14,15

2 Thess 2:11 – “For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie”

God allows Satan to carry out his end time deception on the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”. 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 12:17   How else will Satan do this if not with the help of humans, particularly those whom are “among” the anointed ones? 

2 Pet 2:1-3: “Just as false prophets rose up in the past AMONG GOD’S PEOPLE, false teachers will rise up in the future AMONG YOU. They will slip in with their destructive opinions, denying the very Master who bought their freedom and dooming themselves to destruction swiftly, but not before they attract others by their unbridled and IMMORAL BEHAVIOR, Because of them and their ways, others will criticize and condemn the path of truth we walk as seedy and disreputable.  These FALSE TEACHERS will follow their greed and exploit you with their fabrications, but be assured that their judgment was pronounced long ago and their destruction does not sleep.” 

Satan is the catalyst, “Wormwood”, a fallen (composite) anointed “star”, carries it out – the “beast from the earth”/false prophet/harlot.  Rev 8:11; Heb 12:15; Prov 5:4

God’s Kingdom arrives when everything evil is gone, fully gone. “The last enemy to be abolished is death”.  1 Cor 15:26,24; Dan 7:21-27 After Gog/ Magog, Wild Beast/false prophet/harlot is thrown into the fire, the source of death, Satan ,follows. 

There are not two judgment periods, otherwise Dan 2:44 would be a lie. 

 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 

Dan 2:35 would be a lie,

“Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. (Mount Zion)”

Rev 21:3,4 would be a lie.

“And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Even the promise of eternal salvation through Christ’s sacrifice would be a lie, only to last a literal thousand years; after which, temptation and sin would return to earth again. Does this thought even make sense? 

Matt 19:16; Rom 6:22; 1 John 2:25; John 17:3

2 Pet 3:8 - “Dear friends, don't overlook this one fact: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.”

This “day” is the light of Christ that he offers those who submit themselves to him. 2 Pet 1:19

During Satan’s end time deception once he is let loose from his “restraint”, (2 Thess 2:1-12) the light of Christ is obliterated until he “stands up” and calls his people out of darkness (the “valley of decision”), and into his light. Joel 3:14; Isa 63:2-6; Rev 11:3-5;Dan 12:1; Rev 18:4-8

For just one example, look at Watchtower’s study edition of 9/2017  “Imitate Jehovah’s Compassion”  The picture shows Jesus healing a man, but only one small paragraph, as if as an afterthought, gives credence to the compassion God sent us through Christ.  The light of Christ does not shine through in Watchtower’s teachings, something that has taken over 100 years for the organization to develop.  Rev 16:13,14

“For he says: At an acceptable time I listened to you, and in the day of salvation I helped you. See, now is the acceptable time; now is the day of salvation!”  2 Cor 6:2

The thousand year reign of Christ cannot be taken literal as each individual during their life time will either receive salvation or condemnation, depending on their stand for light or darkness.   Faithful anointed ones throughout the ages are “sons” of that “day”, when walking in Christ’s light, even though Satan’s darkness still exists.  1 Thess 5:5; Matt 5:5: John 1:4  There is so much to be said about its symbolic meaning. Revelation is full of symbolism, including this time period of a thousand years, as well as other time factors.  1000 - 10x10X10 – a perfect complete testimony of truth found in the heart of the faithful anointed ones and all who overcame Satan’s darkness when Christ began ruling from heaven.   Ps 110:1-3

So, there is no waiting for man to become perfect physically or mentally to be then judged.  Clearly, scriptures say our “judgment” began when Jesus appeared on the earth. John 3:19 I could never understand Wt’s thousand year teaching, especially knowing so many before Jesus who walked the earth were faithful as imperfect humans.  At that time, Satan was not “restrained” from causing evil, until authority to do so was given to Jesus. Matt 28:18; Rev 20:3 Yet, each person was judged according to their love of truth.  I remember fretting over what would happen after a thousand years of supposed peace – would I stand up to Satan’s last deception?  Well, it is here, right in front of each JW residing with the captive anointed ones in the organization.

God is “not the God of the dead, but of the living.” Only those who have received salvation and “life” now in Christ through our obedience to him – not to men – during this lifetime, is the basis of our judgment.  There is no second chance in a fabricated thousand years to come.  Matt 22:29-33

I checked the defining mark of true prophets vs false prophets in the Insight Book.  True to word, the GB’s teaching fits the description of false prophets…perfectly.  How I wish JWs would wake up.

I apologize for such a lengthy comment. 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

ANYBODY can explain "Gog of Magog"

I am 70 years old, now.

When I was about 7 years old I went with my mother to Assemblies which back then lasted from 9 in the morning to 9 at night .. and ALL DAY we heard about "Gog of Magog", with hundreds of supposedly related scriptures, reasonings, and predictions ... and even then I learned a LOT which has been helpful to me my entire life, and endures to this day.

EVERYBODY ... is always wrong!

no exceptions.

[Queen Esther]

Thats very interesting, dear  Brother @James Thomas Rook Jr.  thank you very much for your story of the past. The most of us making too much thoughts about all....   The Bible is not so complicated. Jehovah let it write for all humans with a good heart and a deep understanding, I think so.  Of course we must study alot time to understand all  Greetings from Camping in Germany....

[Witness]

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

EVERYBODY ... is always wrong!

no exceptions.

I know you include yourself in your disguised humility ?  There are exceptions though; otherwise, we may as well discard more scriptures; beginning with Amos, here are just a few.  

Amos 3:7

Num 12:6

Acts 2:17-21

1 Cor 14:32

Rev 1:1-3;2:29; 10:11

Matt 17:9-12

Ezek 43:10-12

1 Cor 3:16,17

2 Cor 6:16

Eph 2:20-22

1 Pet 2:5,9

Dan 9:24,25; 8:13,14

Matt 24:15,16

Neh 2:17,18

2 Thess 2:3,4

Rev 13:5-7,15

Rev 11:1-3,7-10

Luke 21:24,25,17-19 

Zech chapter 4

Rev 3:9-12; 21:2

Rev 10:7

If the completion of the Temple brings God’s Kingdom to mankind onto the earth, as well as Satan’s demise, it would be foolish to think Satan won’t do everything in his power to stop it.  It would also be foolish to think that God won’t reveal Satan’s plan against God’s servants, and the way they are to cope with it. And it would be foolish to think Satan doesn’t know how to create a counterfeit plan to “soothe” the future Temple members into a false sense of “peace and security”. 

We as people may have moved into the 21^st century, believing we are beyond God’s power to work through individuals; however, God never changes.  Isa 48:17,18,3

 Can this Temple/New Jerusalem be completed via the organization?  No, it’s “restoration” occurs outside of the whitewashed walls, outside of the delusion.  Ezek 13:14-23; 2 Thess 2:1-4,11,12 

A power was predicted to come against the “saints”; it is the organization/GB that disgraces God’s anointed servants inside by replacing them with false teachers, removing any "power"/Holy Spirit  they may have possessed (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Dan 12:7); and outside the organization, for those who turn to Christ.   Dan 7:23-25; Luke 21:24,25,17-19; John 16:2-4; Rev 13:15; 11:7-10; Heb 13:13; Matt 5:10,11;Ps 22:6;78:35; Jer 31:11;  Isa 41:13-15;44:22

If JWs are Bible readers, as they propose to be, it is the scriptures that reveal God’s message to his people, as well as how it is delivered.  The scriptures shouldn’t scare us off from understanding there are more anointed ones than just the GB, and who actually bear "fruit that will last".  They're just not as "pretty".    Matt 7:15-20; John 15:16; 1 Cor 1:27-31

 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

I got beat up with ever changing definitions for a half century, and MORE.

THEY WERE ALL WRONG

You are confusing me with someone WHO CARES .

[Queen Esther]

Step by step I will read all...  Thank you Brother @Witness

[Queen Esther]

Just little confusing too.....Why some brothers always coming with soooo many Bible Scriptures ?  I remember that from special brothers in the past and here again ! So less brothers can explain things very clear !  Why so big differences ?

Ok.  For now I say thank you all?  

[Witness]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

I got beat up with ever changing definitions for a half century, and MORE.

THEY WERE ALL WRONG

You are confusing me with someone WHO CARES .

OK, then.  I get it.  I have four family members who feel the same way. Initially, what appeared to be a spiritual feast, turns out to be a constant change of diet that never satisfies. Amos 8:11   But as you say on another thread,

“If you want God's blessing, you try to be the recipient of directed "Holy Spirit", at this end.”

Wouldn’t God’s blessing help us sort out the confusion?

 ^"Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

Today, if you hear his voice,
 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
 where your fathers tested me, tried me,
and saw my works  for forty years.
Therefore I was provoked to anger with that generation
and said, “They always go astray in their hearts,
and they have not known my ways.”
 So I swore in my anger,
“They will not enter my rest.”

 Watch out, brothers and sisters, so that there won’t be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.  But encourage each other daily, while it is still called today, so that none of you is hardened by sin’s deception.  For we have become participants in Christ if we hold firmly until the end the reality that we had at the start.  As it is said:

Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."  Heb 3:17-15

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Nana Fofana:

I you had never even HEARD there was a "Gog of Magog", it would not affect your faith or salvation AT ALL.

I am sure there IS a correct answer ... but I don't care .. I cared for years... then it was changed ... and changed... and Changed ... AND CHANGED.

If I was that bad at MY job, I would have been be unemployable. ( I am retired now ... ).

Everything NECESSARY to know and have faith in, and NECESSARY for salvation can be put on a single page of paper ....

.... those First Century Christians had ... EVEN LESS THAN THAT!