Who can really explain *GOG from MAGOG* ?

[Shiwiii]

7 hours ago, Otto said:

THIS QUOTE OF ISA 2v3 SHOWS 2 THINGS IN ITS USE, THE VERSE IS SAYING THAT LAW GOES FORTH AND TEACHINGS OF TRUTH ABOUT THE WAYS OF GOD SO THOSE WHO ARE TRUE SERVANTS CAN WALK IN HIS (JEHOVAHS) WAYS...

Agreed

7 hours ago, Otto said:

THAT MEANS THAT CHRISTMAS, EASTER, BIRTHDAYS, TRINITY, HELLFIRE, END OF THE WORLD, RAPTURE, CROSS, UNIVERSAL SALVATION etc etc etc ARE ALL BARRIERS TO "HIS WAYS" AND "ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE" OF GOD AND HIS SON...CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT?

Utter rubbish, I see no mention of abstaining from Christmas, Easter, Birthdays Etc. in any of the scriptures you mentioned.....nor any other scriptures. It is only in the wt publications is that mentioned. This is in direct opposition to Colossians 2:16 as I stated above. 

 

7 hours ago, Otto said:

ISA IS REFERING TO KNOWING TRUTH NOT FALSEHOOD, AND PRACTICING TRUTH.

true

7 hours ago, Otto said:

ALL OF CHRISTENDOM PRACTICE THE FALSEHOOD AND THE WITNESSES PRACTICE THE TRUTH IN THAT THEY REJECT THOSE IDEAS ABOVE.

Unsubstantiated claim to align yourself with what you think is the "truth", since none of that can be found in scripture.

7 hours ago, Otto said:

NOT KNOWING THE EXACT IDENTITY OF GOG OF MAGOG (AND THE JWs MAY BE CORRECT ON THIS ANYWAY) IS NOT REQUIRED TO WALK IN HIS LAWS, AS GOG IS NOT A LAW THAT AIDS SALVATION.

You are correct here, it is only by faith that we have salvation (1 Thes 5:9, 2 Tim 3:15). Not any org, not a group of men, nothing but Faith. 

5 hours ago, Otto said:

     NOW ITS EASY TO SAY THIS FROM A MAGAZINE NEARLY 100 YEARS OLD, BUT A FEW YEARS LATER THE JWs REJECTED THE PAGAN CROSS AND THE PAGAN CHRISTMAS......SO OBVIOUSLY THINGS CHANGE, 1914 IS STILL THERE BUT 1925, THE CROSS, CHRISSTMAS  STC ARE ALL GONE BECAUSE OF INCREASE INFORMATION ON THE SUBJECTS IN QUESTION, WOULD YOU PREFER AN ORGANISATION THAT FINDS OUT SOMETHING IS WRONG...LIKE EASTER...BUT PRACTICES IT ANYWAY???  WHAT LOGIC IS THAT, WHERE IS THE LOVE OF TRUTH IN THAT IDEA??

What scriptures support this statement? I mean, what scripture was not available when the cross, Christmas and 1925 were all practiced by jw's? Can you provide these scriptures that changed the views of the gb? By the way, I'd prefer NO organization,

 

5 hours ago, Otto said:

THE WTBATS HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE "INSPIRED"...SHOW ME WHERE THEY SAY THEY ARE. THE USE OF THESE FEW VERSES THAT YOU ATTEMPT TO SHOW APPLIES TO THE JWs IS SILLY AS IT APPLIES TO ALL OF CHRISTENDOM ALSO, NO I SET OF VERSES CAN BE QUOTED TO SHOWTHAT ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE ARE REFERENCED...UNLESS THE VERSE EXPLICITLY SPEAKS OF SOMETHING THAT SAID GROUP PRACITE...THES REST IS PIECED TOGETHER THROUGH REASONING ON MANY BVERSES OF INFORMATION WHICH ARRIVES AT A CONCLUSION BY REASON ALONE....YOU COMMENT IS THEREFORE WRONG AND IRRELEVANT

. You can't be serious.....here are just a few:

1967 "We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." (Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591)

1973 "Consider too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone in all the earth is directed by God's holy spirit or active force." (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, page 402)

1976 "We must take seriously what his Word says and what his organization reveals to us.... Would not a failure to respond to direction from God through his organization really indicate a rejection of divine rulership?" (Watchtower, February 15, 1976, p. 214)

1984 "Faith in Jehovah, faith in those whom he is using as spokesmen, yes, faith in his organization! As we 'go out' to Jehovah's service today, how important it is that we exercise such faith!" (Watchtower July 1, 1984 p17)

1981 "Prophecies open up to us as Jehovah's holy spirit sheds light upon them, and as they are fulfilled in world events or in the experiences of God's people." (Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p. 17)

 

5 hours ago, Otto said:

“This generation” teaching.  POISON  Matt 16:4; Ps 14:5 NONSENSE, THE CURRENT UNDERSTANDING IS SOLID AND ONLY TIME WILL TELL ITS ACCURACY

Really???? Explain it to us then using scriptrue

 

5 hours ago, Otto said:

THE 1ST CENTRUY CHRISTIANS WERE UNITED, PAUL HAD TO GAIN AGREEMENT WITH THE ELDERS AND OTHER APOSTLES, SO NONE OF THE CHRISTIANS WERE ACTING ALONE....YOUR IDEAS ARE VERY WRONG AND DANGEROUS TO THOSE NOT WITH KNOWLEDGE.

Paul did not need to gain approval from anyone but God, which he already had by means of his faith. In fact, I believe it was Paul who called those at the council in Jerusalem  "false brethren" Gal 2:6. Why did he call them this? Because they were imposing additional teachings upon Christians! I think, but I might be wrong,  those additional teachings might have been no blood...or no birthdays...or there is no hell....following a group of men....etc. Doesn't really matter the fullness of the additional teachings, what matters is that adding the "law" (whatever "law") is wrong and against God's ways...

by the way, the part about birthdays and blood and hell was only for reference, it was about additional "laws" kinda like the :laws" the gb/wt puts upon its members. 

 

 

I also noticed how quickly you ignored my reply above about reading the Bible alone. 

[TrueTomHarley]

On 8/31/2017 at 2:21 PM, Shiwiii said:

If the 1000 year reign is AFTER Armageddon, and then this battle takes place at the end of the 1000 years, who exactly is fighting who according to jw's? I mean, doesn't the society state that ONLY jw's will be saved after Armageddon? So if all that there is left is jw's, then who do they go to war against? 

I would guess it is those who have developed a complaining and challenging spirit - even a belligerent spirit - against those who have not, the same as can be seen today. 1000 years is a long time for it to take hold - it will take a while for memory of Armageddon to fade. In the first century outright rebellion broke out the instant the apostles died.

In other words, it will be JWs against jws.

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In other words, it will be JWs against jws.

This was the answer I was figuring. 

 

So how can this be if they do not go to war?

[TrueTomHarley]

1 minute ago, Shiwiii said:

So how can this be if they do not go to war?

The bad ones will have 1000 years to work up a head of steam. You don't think that's enough time?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would guess it is those who have developed a complaining and challenging spirit - even a belligerent spirit - against those who have not, the same as can be seen today. 1000 years is a long time for it to take hold - it will take a while for memory of Armageddon to fade. In the first century outright rebellion broke out the instant the apostles died.

In other words, it will be JWs against jws.

No actually, .... it will be Christ Jesus as King, against rebellious subjects to his Kingdom.

In a thousand years humanity may be in several dozen star systems through immigration, and  interstellar war is not practical, for a variety of reasons, but that is a possible secondary concern.

[Shiwiii]

4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The bad ones will have 1000 years to work up a head of steam. You don't think that's enough time?

its not that, it is more about the fact that jw's do NOT go to war and kill. How will they then if that is the stance now? 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

it is more about the fact that jw's do NOT go to war and kill. How will they then if that is the stance now? 

As I say, they have 1000 years to work up to a new position. Moreover, how much is physical warfare on their end is unclear. Surely this forum has proven a genuine battleground, yet not a punch has been thrown.

It's 1000 years off. If things 100 years in the past do not interest me overmuch, neither do they 1000 years in the future. Maybe even JTR's points will factor in somehow. Dunno. I'll worry about it when I get there, assuming I do.

[Shiwiii]

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

As I say, they have 1000 years to work up to a new position. Moreover, how much is physical warfare on their end is unclear. Surely this forum has proven a genuine battleground, yet not a punch has been thrown.

It's 1000 years off. If things 100 years in the past do not interest me overmuch, neither do they 1000 years in the future. Maybe even JTR's points will factor in somehow. Dunno. I'll worry about it when I get there, assuming I do.

It kind of blows a huge hole in the wt's stance that jw's do not go to war. That was my point. This just proves that the whole not going to war thing is made up by men, and it is those men who impose these additional teachings upon their followers. Hence the relation to the topic and conversation by Otto, Witness and I.

[TrueTomHarley]

No offense, Shiwiii - forgive me if I misunderstand you - but it seems you are being obtuse. I said more than once that they have 1000 years to work up to a position they do not occupy now, even if we assume their warfare is physical.

14 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

This just proves that the whole not going to war thing is made up by men,

Go off to war then if you think it is such a great idea. No one here is saying you can't.

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

ts not that, it is more about the fact that jw's do NOT go to war and kill. How will they then if that is the stance now? 

Strange stance in the light of James 4:1.  The answer is in James' letter actually.

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No offense, Shiwiii - forgive me if I misunderstand you - but it seems you are being obtuse. I said more than once that they have 1000 years to work up to a position they do not occupy now, even if we assume their warfare is physical.

Go off to war then if you think it is such a great idea. No one here is saying you can't.

Now I think you are being silly and trying to confuse not only me but all those around here. I was addressing this stance:

"Who are no part of the world and learn war no more? Again, the historical record of the 20th century testifies: only Jehovah's Witnesses." Watchtower 1992 Apr 1 p.12

 

[Shiwiii]

56 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Strange stance in the light of James 4:1.  The answer is in James' letter actually.

James 4:1 is speaking about the conflicts which arose around the time James wrote, between the Jews, which were about which of the 12 tribes had more power and ability to take the issues to court. See James 2:5-6. This was showing favoritism and oppressing the poor by taking them to courts and establishing a false power by means of wealth.  All of the book of James is directed towards the Jews who were Christian about the practical aspects of the Christian faith. This has nothing to do with fighting among the members of the church per se, but more so about the inward fighting among each individual about carnal desires. It is our own desires that conflict within us to envy, lust, hatred, etc.