Who can really explain *GOG from MAGOG* ?

[Witness]

On 9/13/2017 at 2:35 PM, Shiwiii said:

So by this comparison, and others in your post, you believe that Jesus' parables are literal but described in a parable for the sake of keeping the true meanings from those who would/will distort them? 

They wouldn’t actually be literal (like the “ten virgins”) but their symbolic meaning helps with the application and understanding, which understanding is granted by God through Holy Spirit.  Coinciding with Jesus’ use of illustrations is the admonition to dig for their meaning.  If our heart craves truth as valuable, we struggle to know it.  It takes humility to submit ourselves to God’s direction. John 6:27; Matt 13:44,36,51; Luke 8:8-11; Rev 2:29; 3:22  Only then do we receive insight into the signs of the end.  If we are bent on being the “natural man”, spiritual insight is lost and doctrines of men take over; any ‘digging’ is beneath us. 1 Cor 6:6-16; Luke 16:3; 11:13; Matt 7:7; 21:22

When we worship in spirit and truth, we are sanctified by truth.  John 17:17

On 9/13/2017 at 2:35 PM, Shiwiii said:

When? When did Jesus appoint anyone or any group over anything? John was to take care of His mother (John 19:27), Peter was to build the church (Matt 16:18&19), but no mention of a group of men to be appointed over anything. So my question on this part is, when did this take place and what proof is there to support it?

“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”

We know “Peter” means “rock” -  petros (G4074) – apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock -  “a stone” - one of the twelve disciples”

“on this rock” – petra - feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):—rock.

Peter was one of many “stones” selected to build Jesus’ church, which is the “living” Temple under the New Covenant.  Peter wrote to “God’s elect” speaking of the living Stone, corner stone, stumbling stone -  Christ.  He says,

“ you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual houseto be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

Not everyone is chosen to be part of the Temple priesthood, or to be Christ’s Bride; only those anointed ones since Christ. John 13:20; Matt 10:40; 7:20; 1 Pet 2:9  If the early temple pattern was built by the template in heaven and we know the priesthood duties were specific in the early temple as outlined by heaven’s spiritual diagram, how much more so in the heavenly Temple, and under Christ the High Priest. Heb 8:5  The priesthood then was designated to teach God’s laws and serve mankind; thus since Christ, they ready themselves during their lifetime through intense refinement, to do so in the Kingdom. Mal 2:7 Yet scriptures outline how important it is that the anointed ones follow the arrangement now, but many refuse to submit to Christ and his direction…and fall.   All of this choosing, testing that God allows at the hands of Satan, and refinement from sin, (labor pains, Matt 24:8; Rev 12:1,2) is to ‘set’ the sealed ones onto the ‘rock mass’, and complete the “church” of Christ – God’s Temple. Zech 4:7-10; Rev 7:15   This “birth” of the New Covenant woman/promise, and which is also the union of the Bride and Christ, (Christ chooses his bride, not us)  brings forth the Kingdom and the rest of Abraham’s seed – the “birth” of the Kingdom promise. Isa 66:8  Can serving Christ, the Father, as well as all mankind be done by this priesthood/kingship only from “heaven” as the Wt. teaches?  Of course not. The “Holy City”, New Jerusalem is the Temple, which “comes down out of heaven”.  1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 21:10  Jesus showed us by walking among the people, teaching them.  He also told Peter to “feed my sheep” only possible through Holy Spirit and by remaining on the vine of Christ. John 15:4 The “Temple” of living stones will reside on the earth, yet also have access to God in “heaven”.  This means Christ, who is the cornerstone of the Temple, will also be on the earth.  John 1:51; Rev 21:2; Gen 32:12

“What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”  2 Cor 6:16

On 9/13/2017 at 2:35 PM, Shiwiii said:

So by this logic, is Harold Camping also anointed in your eyes?

I don’t believe that all false prophets are anointed.  I believe the last of the prospective “priests/kings”/ anointed ones are within the Wt facing the final test that has come upon the “living stones”, played out by Gog and Magog - the two Beasts of Rev 13 - the GB and the organization. Rev 12:42 Thess 2:1-12  It is there that the remaining anointed ones are gathered.  Rev 20:7-9; 16:13,14

On 9/13/2017 at 2:35 PM, Shiwiii said:

In Matthew and Luke, Jesus tells us that many will come professing to come in His name and saying  look here or look there, He is in the inner rooms and for us NOT to believe them. Why would those people in Matthew 24:24-27 say Jesus would be in the inner rooms? Isn't this because the average person could NOT access the inner rooms to see for themselves? That place was reserved for the priesthood. Wouldn't that be the equivalent of an invisible parousia?   

When I look at the meaning of the Greek term, “tameion,” for "inner rooms" it defines it as:

“a dispenser or distributor; akin to τέμνω témnō, to cut); a dispensary or magazine, i.e. a chamber on the ground-floor or interior of an Oriental house (generally used for storage or privacy, a spot for retirement):—secret chamber, closet, storehouse.

I see the organization and how it is treasured in the physical sense, and how that treasure affects the spiritual heart.  Matt 6:19-21; Luke 21:8; Matt 24:23

Jesus follows by saying: “For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. (his parousia)  Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.”  Matt 24:28  Or Luke uses the term “eagles”.  The carcass isn’t Christ, but those of the remnant anointed “killed” by the Beast for their testimony to Jesus. Mark 8:35; Rev 11:1-3; 12:11,14,6 Jesus did say he would “send” those who represent him in truth, and those with perception, like an eagle, would find it. Matt 7:20; Mal 3:18; Rev 11:3,8

 

[Shiwiii]

20 hours ago, Witness said:

Not everyone is chosen to be part of the Temple priesthood, or to be Christ’s Bride; only those anointed ones since Christ. John 13:20; Matt 10:40; 7:20; 1 Pet 2:9

I see nothing in those verses that state that not all are called to be part of the Priesthood or Christ's bride. This does not support a selection for only a group of men nor does it state when it took/takes place. 

 

20 hours ago, Witness said:

I don’t believe that all false prophets are anointed.  I believe the last of the prospective “priests/kings”/ anointed ones are within the Wt facing the final test that has come upon the “living stones”, played out by Gog and Magog - the two Beasts of Rev 13 - the GB and the organization. Rev 12:42 Thess 2:1-12  It is there that the remaining anointed ones are gathered.  Rev 20:7-9; 16:13,14

and again, where is the support for this belief that the remaining anointed are in the wt, if there is a limited number to begin with? If it is solely your belief, that's fine, but it isn't supported by scripture. 

 

20 hours ago, Witness said:

Jesus did say he would “send” those who represent him in truth, and those with perception, like an eagle, would find it. Matt 7:20; Mal 3:18; Rev 11:3,8

Maybe its just me, but I do not see these scriptures speaking of Jesus sending anyone. I see the part about the two witnesses of Jesus in Rev 11, but outside of that those other scriptures have almost nothing to do with what you are saying. 

[Witness]

On 9/18/2017 at 11:10 AM, Shiwiii said:

I see nothing in those verses that state that not all are called to be part of the Priesthood or Christ's bride. This does not support a selection for only a group of men nor does it state when it took/takes place. 

 

I will attempt to clear it up, I am sorry if I sound repetitive. 

Out of all those who put their hope in Christ, he chose 12 at the time to be joined to his Body. John 6:70  They formulate the foundation of the Temple. Eph 4:11-13  Jesus continued to choose the other “living stones” over the span of time until now. The Body/Temple has been building all along when those chosen ones succeed in faithfulness and receive the mark of God. 2 Chron 7:14; Ezek 9:4; Mal 3:16; Rev 7:3; 14:1 The number “144,000” is complete when God says it is; Revelation is symbolic; whether it is literal or symbolic is up to God; but the number alone bears symbolism. 

“You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.”  John 15:16

Contrast this with,

 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.²⁹ Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. ³⁰ For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matt 11:28-30

“Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.”  John 6:35

“To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours” 1 Cor 1:2

The majority of us have the choice to believe in Christ; not so with the anointed ones, who God appoints to serve the rest of his children who desire to believe. These appointed ones are those Jesus said we will know them by their “fruits”.  Matt 7:15-20; 12:33-36; Heb 13:15   Yet, it is true that false prophets and teachers are found among those not anointed also.

The “living stones” of the Temple are called the “firstfruits” with foundation stones as the apostles and prophets.  Eph 2:20

“But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 1 Cor 15:23

(Jer 2:3; Rom 9:6; Rev 14:4; 21:12)

…and they are priests/kings 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:10  (Num 3:11-13)

 whom Christ shares his inheritance with first; he, as the firstborn and the “second Adam”. (1 Cor 15:45) That inheritance is the earth. Gen 17:7; Heb 5:5; Gen 28:13,14; Rom 4:13   

Gal 3:16 – Christ

Gal 3:29,26 – and those who belong to him -  the “firstfruits”

Is it not logical to believe that Christ makes his choice of who will be his Bride and who are the “firstfruits”? 1 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25  The rest of Abraham’s seed comes through this union. Rev 19:7; 22:17

In Rev 22:17, who are being addressed if not the rest of God’s children? There are those anointed and those not anointed, but all can believe in Christ. If one not anointed listens to God’s truths from Christ and his faithful priests, they will be written in the Lamb’s scroll of life.  Zech 8:23; John 13:20  And there is no doubt in an anointed one’s mind that he or she has had Holy Spirit poured out into their heart.  It is an unmistakable “supernatural” event.  Rom 5:5; 1 John 2:27

“Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.  Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.  And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”  Matt 10:40-42

Sealed anointed ones are the “new creation”, both human and spirit.  1 Pet 1:23; 2 Cor 5:17; John 3:5; 1 Cor 15:44,50; Heb 8:5;Eph 2:6; 1 Cor 3:16

They are the “angels”/stars/servants/messengers/priests Christ “sends” during the last days, and who will appear with him on the earth in the Kingdom.  Mal 2:7; Rev 1:6; 20:6; 2 Cor 5:20; Heb 1:6; Rev 21:2; John 1:51; Matt 13:40-42; Rev 11:1-3  They can be deemed as “angel/messengers” while still in their physical bodies on the earth.  Rev 5:10; Heb 13:1,2

Are the anointed only found in the Watchtower?  Except for those who have left to serve Christ fully, and who have rejected an idol - yes.  They are “gathered” in the organization – Gog and Magog - to face the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation and the “divisive sword” of truth against lies is the final test to come upon the remaining “living stones”. Dan 7:23; Rev 13:5-10; 20:7-9; Matt 10:34; Heb 4:12; Rev 1:16; 19:11-16

Any other visible display of the coming end, originates with Satan, who only cares to divert the attention of the spiritual war based on truth against lies, that is raging now.  2 Cor 10:3-6 Why would he make his most deceptive trap to kill off the seed of Abraham, easily visible? Ezek 13:20-23; Matt 2:7; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Col 2:8

The organization is known as “the truth”.  How ironic it is that Christ, the firstborn, is “the truth”.  John 14:6; 1 John 1:6; 2 Cor 11:3-4; Rev 16:13-16  The struggle the anointed face, as well as everyone in there, is whether they are determined to serve God and Christ without the organization.  Ps 86:11; Ezek 11:19

 

[Shiwiii]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Out of all those who put their hope in Christ, he chose 12 at the time to be joined to his Body. John 6:70  They formulate the foundation of the Temple. Eph 4:11-13  Jesus continued to choose the other “living stones” over the span of time until now. The Body/Temple has been building all along when those chosen ones succeed in faithfulness and receive the mark of God. 2 Chron 7:14; Ezek 9:4; Mal 3:16; Rev 7:3; 14:1

I'm with you up until here. 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

The number “144,000” is complete when God says it is; Revelation is symbolic; whether it is literal or symbolic is up to God; but the number alone bears symbolism. 

The number is also literal, but the specifics of who makes up that number as also literal. One cannot take part literal and not the rest. If it is to be taken symbolically, then the rest is also to be taken symbolically. To take part and not the other is to divide scripture. Does that mean that there is only one way of interpreting this 144k? Not at all! There is duality in scripture a plenty, but it either all fits or it doesn't. 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

The majority of us have the choice to believe in Christ; not so with the anointed ones, who God appoints to serve the rest of his children who desire to believe. These appointed ones are those Jesus said we will know them by their “fruits”.  Matt 7:15-20; 12:33-36; Heb 13:15   Yet, it is true that false prophets and teachers are found among those not anointed also.

So do you think that Paul had no choice? Peter? 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

whom Christ shares his inheritance with first; he, as the firstborn and the “second Adam”. (1 Cor 15:45) That inheritance is the earth. Gen 17:7; Heb 5:5; Gen 28:13,14; Rom 4:13   

Gal 3:16 – Christ

Gal 3:29,26 – and those who belong to him -  the “firstfruits”

Is it not logical to believe that Christ makes his choice of who will be his Bride and who are the “firstfruits”? 1 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25  The rest of Abraham’s seed comes through this union. Rev 19:7; 22:17

I don't see where Christ shares first with any select group. In fact when I read Romans 8, I see where If we are in Christ we are heirs and if we are not in Christ, then we are not His. Consequently, if we are not His (Christs) then we have no life in us (John 6:53).

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Is it not logical to believe that Christ makes his choice of who will be his Bride and who are the “firstfruits”? 1 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:25  The rest of Abraham’s seed comes through this union. Rev 19:7; 22:17

of course it is logical, its even Biblical, John 15:16-19

5 hours ago, Witness said:

In Rev 22:17, who are being addressed if not the rest of God’s children? There are those anointed and those not anointed, but all can believe in Christ. If one not anointed listens to God’s truths from Christ and his faithful priests, they will be written in the Lamb’s scroll of life.  Zech 8:23; John 13:20  And there is no doubt in an anointed one’s mind that he or she has had Holy Spirit poured out into their heart.  It is an unmistakable “supernatural” event.  Rom 5:5; 1 John 2:27

I believe this is a completely separate topic, while tied in...agreed, but a whole different can of worms. We have to go backwards in Revelation to determine who is being talked about here. Remember that Revelation was written from a vision of future accounts to John while on Patmos. So the accounts describe both future and present, according to John. throughout Revelation, there isn't a separation and distinction of "the anointed" vs the rest of God's people. There is a distinction about the wicked and righteous for sure. There is plenty more we can gather as well from the rest of scripture. For instance Galatians 4 tells us a lot about who is from Abraham and who is our mother. I'm sure we'll dig into that a bit more as this discussion progresses. 

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Sealed anointed ones are the “new creation”, both human and spirit.  1 Pet 1:23; 2 Cor 5:17; John 3:5; 1 Cor 15:44,50; Heb 8:5;Eph 2:6; 1 Cor 3:16

Again, with regards to this new creation and 2 Cor 5:17, looking at Romans 8 tells us who is, it are those who are in Christ Jesus. If one is not in Christ Jesus that one does not belong to Him, and thus by means of scripture Jesus was sent to save His people (Matt 1:21), so if one is not found in Christ Jesus, then Jesus did not come to save them.  So all who are in Christ Jesus are anointed, all are called, all are not equal in gifts nor place, all are a part of the body of Christ. It is by those other scriptures you quoted that attest to this, once one is born of the spirit they become heirs, all of them. 

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Are the anointed only found in the Watchtower?  Except for those who have left to serve Christ fully, and who have rejected an idol - yes.  They are “gathered” in the organization – Gog and Magog - to face the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation and the “divisive sword” of truth against lies is the final test to come upon the remaining “living stones”. Dan 7:23; Rev 13:5-10; 20:7-9; Matt 10:34; Heb 4:12; Rev 1:16; 19:11-16

This is opinion, not backed by scripture. The wt is never mentioned in the Bible, nor its group of men. This is the bottom line we are talking about and without scripture to prove this, it is merely opinion. 

 

5 hours ago, Witness said:

The organization is known as “the truth”.  How ironic it is that Christ, the firstborn, is “the truth”.  John 14:6; 1 John 1:6; 2 Cor 11:3-4; Rev 16:13-16  The struggle the anointed face, as well as everyone in there, is whether they are determined to serve God and Christ without the organization.  Ps 86:11; Ezek 11:19

To me this is borderline blasphemy, as well as other claims made by the men of the wt.

Do I believe that there are people in all walks of life in which God will use and save? Sure. If He can use drug addicts, harlots, murders, Idolaters and the like, then He can use anybody for anything and save whom He has chosen. To declare that only those whom men have organized to do their will, are selected and saved is taking the place and power of God.   

[Witness]

On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, Shiwiii said:

The number is also literal, but the specifics of who makes up that number as also literal. One cannot take part literal and not the rest. If it is to be taken symbolically, then the rest is also to be taken symbolically. To take part and not the other is to divide scripture. Does that mean that there is only one way of interpreting this 144k? Not at all! There is duality in scripture a plenty, but it either all fits or it doesn't. 

Just some further thought:  Rev 21:17 – “Then he measured its wall, 144 cubits according to human measurement, which the angel used.”   This is the measurement of the Holy City, comprised of the anointed ones, the new creation of both human and angel/spirit. Rev 21:2,3; 1 Cor 3:16; 6:17,19; John 14:23; Rom 8:9,11; Gal 4:6; Eph 3:17   “144,000” is based on the number 12.  Symbolically, it represents the full number of the living stones of the Temple, just as the 12 foundations represent the apostles.  So, its meaning could take on both a human/literal number as well as a spiritual/symbolic number. Still, it is God’s choice.

On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, Shiwiii said:

So do you think that Paul had no choice? Peter? 

YES!  life in Christ or death.  Thank you for bringing this out.  It is more appropriate to say the anointed are “called” to an appointed work, and Chosen when refined and sealed.  1 Cor 1:2;7:20-22; Rom 9:23,24; 8:29,30; Rev 7:4  I think we need to realize that this appointment made by God, is on the heart condition at the time (2 Chron 16:9 ); which tells me that those who are selected, agree to the “vow”, at least initially.  Matt 20:20-23 From there on, Satan puts them through a similar test that Christ faced. Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 5:8; Rev 12:17  For the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”, the test is more grueling; more deceitful and more ‘tribulating’.  Mark 13:19,20; Rev 12:17

On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, Shiwiii said:

I don't see where Christ shares first with any select group. In fact when I read Romans 8, I see where If we are in Christ we are heirs and if we are not in Christ, then we are not His. Consequently, if we are not His (Christs) then we have no life in us (John 6:53).

If there are “firstfruits” of a crop, that isn’t the whole crop – others follow.  Under the New Covenant, the “firstfruits” are the first…to receive life in Christ.  Rev 20:6; James 1:18; Rev 14:4,5  Since Christ, both have existed. 

 “He himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world.”  1 John 2:2 (John 4:42)

Christ dies first for the members of his Body, his Bride (Heb 9:28); yet he also died for the “sins of the whole world”.   1 John 2:2; 4:14; John 4:42

Once fully united as the Bride of Christ to her “husband” she is the “woman”, the fulfilled New Covenant promise. Gal 4:24-26 She is one in Spirit with Christ.  Rev 22:17; John 7:38; John 6:63, Matt 10:40,41; 1 Cor 6:19,17

The Bride is composed of “ministering spirits” to the ‘second fruits’ Heb 1:14

Rev 22:17 is addressing the ‘secondfruits’, the rest of God’s children.  (John 7:38)

The Bride/anointed ones “come down out of heaven” as “New Jerusalem/Holy City/Temple” to bring healing and restoration to mankind, and all of God’s creation.  Rev 21:2; 22:3,2,17

This time period since Christ has been a preparatory process placed upon those appointed to serve God, Christ and all mankind.  In its finished state, “New Jerusalem” will be seen on earth. Rev 21:2

 

On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, Shiwiii said:

I believe this is a completely separate topic, while tied in...agreed, but a whole different can of worms.

On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, Shiwiii said:

Again, with regards to this new creation and 2 Cor 5:17, looking at Romans 8 tells us who is, it are those who are in Christ Jesus. If one is not in Christ Jesus that one does not belong to Him, and thus by means of scripture Jesus was sent to save His people (Matt 1:21), so if one is not found in Christ Jesus, then Jesus did not come to save them.  So all who are in Christ Jesus are anointed, all are called, all are not equal in gifts nor place, all are a part of the body of Christ. It is by those other scriptures you quoted that attest to this, once one is born of the spirit they become heirs, all of them

 

If all are of God’s Temple, and part of Christ’s Body, what people are they administering to? Mal 2:7 We can all receive Holy Spirit, we can all believe in Christ, but this doesn’t mean we are all “priestly kings”  working with Jesus.  That requires an anointing, becoming the “new creation”, which is not questionable or presumed in the mind of the receiver, it is without a doubt an experience never forgotten.  When reading Matt 5:14-16, it is clear that the apostles fit its description; they let their light shine before all men in the same manner as Christ – because they became part of him, to teach as he taught.

“I assure you: Whoever receives anyone I send receives Me, and the one who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.”  John 13:20

“Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, certain that God is appealing through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.”  2 Cor 5:20

On the day of Pentecost, Peter gave a speech to all those drawn by the commotion they heard.  For those who became believers after Peter spoke to them, were they then anointed?  No, but they were baptized in water, showing their dedication to Christ, and became disciples of Christ. Acts 2:41,42 Many of the early disciples were commended for their care of the “saints”.   Heb 6:10; 1 Cor 1:2; Matt 25:37-40  

On 9/20/2017 at 12:16 PM, Shiwiii said:

This is opinion, not backed by scripture. The wt is never mentioned in the Bible, nor its group of men. This is the bottom line we are talking about and without scripture to prove this, it is merely opinion. 

 

No religious organization is mentioned in the Bible, but it tells us that when Christ’s “thousand year reign” is over, Gog and Magog/two Beasts/ deceive the anointed ones – gather them, and surround them with deceit – a “delusion”  2 Thess 2:1-12  This leads back to my initial posts here.  Revelation ties in completely with the signs Christ gave us of his coming.

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

19 hours ago, Witness said:

So, its meaning could take on both a human/literal number as well as a spiritual/symbolic number. Still, it is God’s choice.

Then why such the demand that 144k is literal? 

 

19 hours ago, Witness said:

It is more appropriate to say the anointed are “called” to an appointed work, and Chosen when refined and sealed.  1 Cor 1:2;7:20-22; Rom 9:23,24; 8:29,30; Rev 7:4  I think we need to realize that this appointment made by God, is on the heart condition at the time (2 Chron 16:9 ); which tells me that those who are selected, agree to the “vow”, at least initially.  Matt 20:20-23 From there on, Satan puts them through a similar test that Christ faced. Luke 22:31; 1 Pet 5:8; Rev 12:17  For the “remaining ones of the woman’s seed”, the test is more grueling; more deceitful and more ‘tribulating’.  Mark 13:19,20; Rev 12:17

I see this as ALL who are in Christ, not any select number. 

 

19 hours ago, Witness said:

Under the New Covenant, the “firstfruits” are the first…to receive life in Christ.  Rev 20:6; James 1:18; Rev 14:4,5  Since Christ, both have existed.

Certainly the number of those from Rev 20:6 are from the first resurrection as it states, but the second resurrection is that of judgement. Don't you agree? 

 

19 hours ago, Witness said:

Rev 22:17 is addressing the ‘secondfruits’, the rest of God’s children.  (John 7:38)

I disagree, Rev 22:17 is almost a rhetorical statement about the members of the Bride in general. 

 

19 hours ago, Witness said:

If all are of God’s Temple, and part of Christ’s Body, what people are they administering to?

All believers are a part of the body and they would be ministering to each other, a lifting up of each other. Everyone needs support and uplifting, a pastor, even if he is the head of a cong, still needs support and ministering to by others. I do not see this as us and them, but rather a collective "we". 

 

19 hours ago, Witness said:

That requires an anointing, becoming the “new creation”, which is not questionable or presumed in the mind of the receiver, it is without a doubt an experience never forgotten.

This is true, however I believe our experiences and opinions on this "new creation" differ greatly. 

 

19 hours ago, Witness said:

The Bride/anointed ones “come down out of heaven” as “New Jerusalem/Holy City/Temple” to bring healing and restoration to mankind, and all of God’s creation.  Rev 21:2; 22:3,2,17

Lets dig deeper into this, shall we? I agree with you where the bride comes down out of Heaven as the new Jerusalem. What is this new Jerusalem made up of? You say that it is the anointed ones, and I don't disagree, but our idea of who makes up the anointed is different. You subscribe to a number in which the wt agrees, 144k from Rev 7:4, yes? I'll leave this here for now. I want to make sure I understand your position clearly before we continue.