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Albert Michelson

Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?

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56 minutes ago, bruceq said:

And since a forum such as this one it is impossible to determine who is or is not an apostate, disfellowshipped or pretending to be a brother while dispensing divisions  and we are obviously associating together here it is my decision to now leave as I wish to cherish true Loyalty to my Creator. 

I mentioned once that I assume up front that everyone is a liar. You have to do that online. It's takes a while to sort them out here, and some you never know for sure. It's probably best just to stay off the darn thing, but I'm not the most balanced guy in the world.

Besides, new or naive ones come along and play here like kids on the street. Villains are trying to run them down, swerving like ISIS to take out as many as possible. Sometimes I can flatten their tires and thwart them, or at least slow them down and cause them to pull out their air pump to imbibe more hot air.

Not to mention that I suspect some here don't have both oars in the water.

 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:
5 hours ago, bruceq said:
5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I upvote ANYBODY when what they say is true, and/or really applicable.

We know. Satan said some things that were also true. B|

But wasn't it Billy Graham or one of those preachers from a bye-gone generation who said:

"We should learn to love and value truth for its own sake. . . . A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God."

 

Actually, it was Charles Taze Russell ....in

the very FIRST issue of the Watchtower.

July 1, 1879 in the article "What is Truth?"

Here is the full text of the article ....

"WHAT IS TRUTH?" 

This question is one which every sincere Christian should ask and seek to answer. We 
should learn to love and value truth for its own sake; to respect and honor it by owning 
and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomsoever presented. A truth 
presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God. 

Perhaps no class of people are more apt to overlook this fact than the Christian. How 
often do they in controversy overlook and ignore truth presented by their opponents. 
This is particularly the case when arguing with an infidel. They feel at perfect liberty to 
dispute everything he says on religious subjects. This is not the correct principle. Many 
infidels are honest— as anxious to speak and believe the truth as are Christians— and if in 
converse with them we ignore truths which they may advance, we not only fail to 
convince them of our truths, but put an end to all hope of reaching them; for our failure 
to admit the evident truth which they advance begets in them contempt for the one who 
is not honest enough to admit one truth because he does not see how it can be reconciled 
to another. Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter R9 : page 3 what it contradicts, 
and rely for ability to afterwards harmonize it with others upon "The Spirit of truth, 
which shall guide you into all truth," as Jesus promised. 

Truth, like a modest little flower in the wilderness of life, is surrounded and almost 
choked by the luxuriant growth of the weeds of error. If you would find it you must be 
ever on the lookout. If you would see its beauty you must brush aside the weeds of error 
and the brambles of bigotry. If you would possess it you must stoop to get it. 

Be not content with one flower of truth. Had one been sufficient there would have been 
no more. Gather ever, seek for more. 

Weave them together as a garland —"Bind them on thee as a bride doeth." "Bind them 
about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: so shalt thou find favor and 
good understanding in the sight of God and man." Prov. 3:3. 

C. T. R. 

I believe that covers it ALL.

Oh ... and JW Insider ... thanks for the "setup".

 

.........

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8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

if it goes back from before I was born, I lose interest

I know what you're saying, but years in themselves don't nullify what happened. If that were the case, then we wouldn't be able to point to the Catholic's sordid past (inquisitions etc.) as an example of why they are bad. Of course I'm comparing apples to oranges...

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3 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I find it amusing and sad at the same time that through the Watchtower, we had to be counseled that we could no longer KILL OUR APOSTATE RELATIVES!

( ... probably advice from the Society's Lawyers and Accountants...)

.

 

Awwww...."shakes head"....JTR!

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5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I upvote ANYBODY when what they say is true, and/or really applicable.

 

17626245_10THIS IS TRUTH  600 .jpg

I like this illustration (and so do you judging by the amount of times you've posted it). Of course both are true, depending on your vantage point. But all it illustrates is that there are several ways of looking at things and they may all be true depending on where you are. I think that was your point. Of course this does nothing to illustrate the "truth" (universal truth) we are talking about as JWs.

Universal truth: There are absolutely no square circles and there are absolutely no round squares xD

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Guest J.R. Ewing
5 hours ago, bruceq said:

I realize that I am not an elder or former elder such as some of you are but I know what Loyalty to Jehovah is. And since a forum such as this one it is impossible to determine who is or is not an apostate, disfellowshipped or pretending to be a brother while dispensing divisions  and we are obviously associating together here it is my decision to now leave as I wish to cherish true Loyalty to my Creator

I found that Pastor Russell was always tussling with the same thing. Unfortunately, about 80 percent of bible students didn’t understand, and I would say about 99 percent of Bethelite’s never understood. That’s a shame when people profess to understand scripture, but really, never did.

You shouldn’t be discouraged, when one is compelled to argue the truth with pretenders of the truth. Ex-Bethelites do just that. They discourage true believers with a untethered truth. Anyone that follows that logic is accepting what Jesus warned against.

The ideology, that it’s up to witnesses to exercise scriptural diligence against the governing body is not looking at their own faults as human beings by the lack of knowledge they profess to know. So, don’t feel bad for having been tricked, into an apostate website.

[R8: page 3]

"WHAT IS TRUTH?"

This question is one which every sincere Christian should ask and seek to answer. We should learn to love and value truth for its own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomsoever presented. A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God.

 

Perhaps no class of people are more apt to overlook this fact than the Christian. How often do they in controversy overlook and ignore truth presented by their opponents? This is particularly the case when arguing with an infidel. They feel at perfect liberty to dispute everything he says on religious subjects. This is not the correct principle. Many infidels are honest—as anxious to speak and believe the truth as are Christians—and if in converse with them we ignore truths which they may advance, we not only fail to convince them of our truths, but put an end to all hope of reaching them; for our failure to admit the evident truth which they advance begets in them contempt for the one who is not honest enough to admit one truth because he does not see how it can be reconciled to another. Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter [R9: page 3] what it contradicts, and rely for ability to afterwards harmonize it with others upon "The Spirit of truth, which shall guide you into all truth," as Jesus promised.

 

And yet, Pastor Russell’s understanding of scripture was relatively simple.

 

[R397: page 7]

THE BODY, THE BRIDE OF CHRIST.

We are always sorry to differ with those we love; yet, when necessary for the truth's sake, we must do it in the spirit of meekness—the spirit of love—the spirit of Christ. We believe that it is our Lord's wish that we "contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints"; therefore we "have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." We find that among the Apostles there were differences. (Acts 15; Gal. 2:11; 1 Tim. 1:19-20; 2 Tim. 2:16-18.) Hence, we need not be surprised if such should be the case in this day. But should the faithful servant ignore doctrinal differences to maintain peace? Did Paul do so? No; as faithful servants, we should contend earnestly, at the same time striving to maintain unity of spirit in the bonds of peace, yet never sacrificing truth for either unity or peace, else we should not be able to grow in grace and knowledge—up to a stature of perfection in Christ.

 

In its last two issues, Zion's Day Star presents, as new light, the idea that the body of Christ—the church—is different from the Bride of Christ—the church. They claim that the "body" means those who overcome the world following the example of Jesus, their Head (which we always held); but deny that the bride is the same class of overcomers. They claim that the body, with the head, constitute the Bridegroom, who, in due time, will be united to the Bride; and they claim that the Bride company, through weakness of the flesh, are not overcomers of the world, but are overcome by the world [the class whom both they and we have always heretofore recognized as the servant company of Rev. 7:9-17].

 

The question arises, is this true—have we heretofore labored under a misapprehension? We are not to conclude that because it is different from what we had thought, therefore it is erroneous; neither are we to conclude that because it is new, therefore it is new light. It might be new error. It might be darkness. Neither should we judge of its truth or falsity by the measure of our love for those who advocate or oppose the view. This is a lesson which all need to learn: that while human teachers are necessary, and should be esteemed very highly for their work's sake (1 Thes. 5:13), yet they are to be respected and heeded only so far as they can show us a thus saith the Lord, for their teachings. Let us, then, inquire of the Lord what is truth on this subject, and receive his reply from his Word.

 

Now, how many here that criticize the Watchtower, can compare a straight forward truth, when Satan has taken over the thoughts and minds with such pervasiveness with the seriousness that GOD holds each and every one of us accountable for leading people, astray.

So, stick around, and fight the good fight for your creator. Don’t allow the whims of disloyalty win. That should be the primary focus for a true believer!!!

Believe me, there’s a disfellowshipped ex-bethelite, and his loyalist, rejoicing that another loyal witness bit the dust, so stick around and prove them wrong!!!!

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12 hours ago, bruceq said:

We know. Satan can say things that are true also. But Titus 1:16 - he is not approved by God anymore than a blogger is who upvotes apostates and agrees with their haughty attitudes or "special interpretations"

In the end it is about not stumbling 'one of these little ones who believe' so as to avoid having a millstone thrown about your neck.

If upvoting villains on the rare occasions they behave can trigger someone's stumbling, should I assume the right to do it? It doesn't matter whether I've figured it shouldn't trigger stumbling. It only matters that it does, or can. Should I give the impression that I am having a most pleasant party here with characters who loathe everything Jehovah's Witnesses stand for? Isn't this an "if eating meat causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again" situation?

JTR will shed many a tear, but hopefully he will understand as my upvoting dwindles. No WWI 1914 Christmas truce here, I think it must be..

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28 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Believe me, there’s a disfellowshipped ex-bethelite, and his loyalist, rejoicing that another loyal witness bit the dust, so stick around and prove them wrong!!!!

On the other hand (and I do NOT know which persons you refer to) we all know how there are movies that, if you see them, you feel you ought to take a shower afterwards. The internet can be like that, too.

Nobody should be coerced to keep up the fine fight here because it isn't that fine. Often it is better to stick to the field where the likelihood of finding a 'listening ear' is far higher and the likelihood of finding a honed hating ear is far lower. 

Nor do I agree that anyone 'bit the dust.' More likely, he was Mary who 'chose the better portion.' 

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Guest J.R. Ewing
17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nobody should be coerced to keep up the fine fight here because it isn't that fine. Often it is better to stick to the field where the likelihood of finding a 'listening ear' is far higher and the likelihood of finding a honed hating ear is far lower. 

Nor do I agree that anyone 'bit the dust.' More likely, he was Mary who 'chose the better portion.' 

That's where you and I part company!! ¬¬

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Just now, J.R. Ewing said:

That's where you and I part company!! ̬

Parting is okay, just like Abraham and Lot did.

I once said I half-suspected this entire forum is apostates playing good cop - bad cop to wreak havoc on newcomers. I'm still not 100% certain that's not the case, though I'm getting there.

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Guest J.R. Ewing

Sorry to read that, your confusion abounds! The finite truth between conjecture and knowledge. I believe that was Pastor Russell’s point. Only those who wish to believe by faith will, those that fear destruction stick around to see how society end’s up, won’t.

1 Timothy 6:12New International Version (NIV)

12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Too bad people are willing to negate scripture to pursue their own selfish acts!!

Perhaps looking at the previous highlighted will ease your confusion.

TTH. Don't pretend to go again'st the elite, then turn around to fight for them, just because you don't like the message. If you can put up with someone telling you "your" book suck!, then don't make too much of my comments, Thanks!

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Guest J.R. Ewing
7 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Parting is okay, just like Abraham and Lot did.

I once said I half-suspected this entire forum is apostates playing good cop - bad cop to wreak havoc on newcomers. I'm still not 100% certain that's not the case, though I'm getting there.

Good, then we understand each other. You stay off my back, and I'll stay off of yours!B|

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On 8/28/2017 at 10:11 PM, JW Insider said:

 .....questions during a meeting were more like:

  • "And can anyone see why this teaching might be difficult to explain to someone at the door?"
  • "Would someone like to offer a Biblical reason why this proposed doctrine might not be correct?"
  • "The talk this Sunday will be 30 minutes based on the new outlines: Brother Smithsonian will speak to us for 15 minutes about why the 'little flock' and 'other sheep' could refer to spiritual Israel and spiritual Gentiles. Then Brother Johnsonian will speak to us for 15 minutes about why the 'little flock' and 'other sheep' could refer to literal Israel and  literal Gentiles. So we'll want to put on our thinking caps for that one."

It sounds like you fell out of bed and banged your head really hard! Lol 

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      A recent topic about whether the Watchtower view of 607 BCE is SCRIPTURALLY supported is linked below. This new topic should provide a better place to discuss the SECULAR evidence. I also think it would be useful to discuss the methodology that the Watch Tower Society has historically used to treat this evidence.
      I would hope that we can do this without so much side discussions of unrelated topics. To avoid another topic that goes on for 30+ pages where only half of them were on-topic, I would suggest that if we get enough off-topic posts, we merely move them to another more appropriate topic.
      The link to the most recent topic on a similar subject is here:


       
    • By JW Insider
      Why another topic about 1914 and 607?
      Because we could use a topic where we can all agree a little more easily. Seriously. In this topic, we don't need to worry about whether 607 is correct, or 1914 is correct. No one needs to say why it does or doesn't make sense to them. Let's just see if we can review the possible and probable sources that were influential, and ultimately resulted in 607 and 1914 being accepted as a Bible-based fulfillment of prophecy.
      No one needs to jump from another thread about 607 and Biblical evidence over to this one. In fact, I just read a couple of books last night for the first time, and I had some questions that I couldn't find an answer to, and hoped that someone from that other thread, or anyone really, might have run across the resources that might have answered the questions. I'm reading one more book first, and don't think I'll finish it tonight, so consider this topic to be kind of a placeholder for a couple days.
      So this is the purpose of the three current threads:
      https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/5510-607-bce-is-it-biblically-supported/ a place to discuss mostly the Scriptural evidence for or against the 607 portion of the 1914 doctrine. https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/51655-607-bce-is-there-any-secular-support-for-the-watch-towers-view/ a place to discuss mostly the Secular evidence for or against the 607 portion of the 1914 doctrine. And this current one: a place to discuss the sources that were influential in the WTS accepting the 607 date as part of the 1914 doctrine. One place to start is with a couple sentences in the "Proclaimers" book (next post). I personally intend to avoid a certain book by COJ for this topic, to avoid unnecessary controversy, although anyone should feel free to use any resources from anywhere they wish, as long as it appears to be a statement of fact. Again, this is not about questioning the correctness of the doctrine.
    • By The Librarian
      Master Chronological List > 1914
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  pointed to 1914 as the end of the "Gentile Times" or "The Appointed Times of the Nations."

      Subsequent President of the  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  established 1914 as the date of "Christ's Invisible Return" and crowning as King of  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  which had been previously believed to be 1878. Hence, Jehovah's heavenly Kingdom is established.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  teach that Satan and his demons were cast down to earth from heaven after October 1, 1914 at which point the end times began.

      From 1914 C.E. to the early part of 1918 C.E. or 1,260 days Jehovah's people preached a "sackcloth" message concerning Christendom and the world, in fulfillment of Revelation 11:3, 4. See re pgs. 164-7 pars. 10-18, also see yw pgs. 264-307, also bf pg. 592.

      [KING OF THE NORTH is now Germany, the KING OF THE SOUTH is the alliance between Great Britian and the United States of America, see Daniel 11:27-29], Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife, Countess Sophie Chotek, duchess of Hohenberg were assassinated on June 28th in Sarajevo, Bosnia, (now in Bosnia and Herzegovina), by a Serb nationalist. This action precipitated World War I. 
       
      On October 2, 1914, Jesus took the throne. Shortly thereafter, a war in heaven broke out wherein Satan and his demons were cast from the heavens. Satan then became so enraged that he began to wreak havoc upon the earth. One of the first things he did was to start the Great War (WWI). So WWI must have started a few days after October 2, 1914.
       
      “World War I set the violent twentieth century in motion. It was the first use of chemical weapons; the first mass bombardment of civilians from the sky; the century’s first genocide.” So begins the 1996 PBS series The Great War and the Shaping of the Twentieth Century.


      The war’s horrendous prosecution and unsatisfactory end were made even worse by the Versailles Peace Conference, a conclave which created the false peace that only allowed the combatants to rearm and proceed to a second conflict which was even more destructive than the first one. World War II merely took up the Great War’s unfinished business. Indeed many historians call both conflicts Europe’s “Second Thirty Years’ War.”

      The First World War led to the birth of the first communist dictatorship. The world flirted with nuclear destruction as that dictatorship engaged in a murderous rivalry with its erstwhile allies. When the USSR finally imploded, some of the splinter states which emerged from its ruins fell to either fighting among themselves or suffering internecine bloodletting. And the problems elsewhere in southwest Asia as well as the Middle East can be traced to hatreds fostered by European colonialism which the Great War only intensified.

      The world we have today had its birth pangs in World War I. It was Austria-Hungary’s invasion of Serbia on 28 July 1914 that caused a myriad of dominoes to fall—and they are continuing to tumble even now.


      The war shattered an entire world order. In 1914, sixty percent of the world's population lived under the rule of kingdoms or empires. Today less than ten percent do so. The only important royal dynasty to survive the war was the House of Windsor and that was not without challenge. The fragmentation of these empires led to the rise of independent states which continues down to this day as the doctrine of "self-determination", promulgated by Wilson at Versailles, continues to govern many movements in our time.

      But what makes the Great War different from its predecessors is that it was the first fought in all four quarters of the globe and by blocs of nations as opposed to just a few. Its carnage also was unmatched in previous world history. Nobody knows how many actually died although estamates range from fourteen to twenty million. Among its aftershocks were the Spanish Flu, the pandemic that killed more people than the war itself, and widespread famine. So to say that the Great War was not much different from earlier ones entirely misses the point,
       
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      July 28, 1914. Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia. August 1, 1914. Germany Declares War on Russia. August 3, 1914. Germany declares war on France. August 4, 1914. Britain declares war on Germany. August 6, 1914. Austria declares war on Russia. April 6, 1917 - The United States declares war on Germany.
      Depiction from the 
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      Older depiction from the 1982 book "
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      Related Links and Questions
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      1914-2014 - One Hundred Years of Kingdom Rule!

      Where did you find the theme text for 1914?

      Jesus said that "This generation will not pass away until all these things occur." Did he mean the generation that saw saw World War 1 in 1914?

      What shows that Christ became King in 1914?

      When Jesus began ruling as King in 1914, was that the start of the Millennial reign of the Messianic Kingdom?

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.

       
      Watchtower Publications from 1914
      YearText: “Be strong and courageous.” Joshua 1:9
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      Berean Studies on The New Creation - C.T. Russell 
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      Return to the 
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      Watchtower_May_15_1984_pages_1_to_7.pdf
      Previous Watchtower Publications quotations concerning 1914
      “Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon.” - The Watchtower, September 1, 1952, p. 543

      THE TRAIN ILLUSTRATION - Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 5

      “The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the ‘last days’ have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God...Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the ‘last days’ began. Jesus was saying that some of those persons who were alive at the appearance of the ‘sign of the last days’ would still be alive when God brought this system to its end.” - Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 13


      “But there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happening then and who were old enough that they still remember those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes!” -  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.

      “However, there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happening then and who were old enough that they still remember those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes!” - The Watchtower, February 15, 1969, p. 101

      “Men of this world offer you nothing stable, nothing sure. Their promises and predictions of better things have failed time and again. Why let yourself be carried along with them in a steadily downward course to ultimate disaster due to rejecting God’s will? God’s prophetic Word has not failed. Time has confirmed its truthfulness, its unerring accuracy. The generation that saw the start of the time of distress that began in 1914 is now dwindling in numbers. Before it passes off the scene the prophesied ‘great tribulation’ will come. You can be among the joyful survivors, experience deliverance from a world system that has proved oppressive, unworkable and death dealing.” - The Watchtower, February 1, 1971, p. 69

      “And the remaining ones of that generation of 1914 are still talking about it. Some of them will be talking about it right down to the time when the ‘great tribulation’ wipes Satan’s wicked system of things off the face of our globe. For Jesus Christ himself assures us: ‘Truly I say to you that this generation [the generation that saw the ‘beginning of pangs of distress’ in 1914] will by no means pass away [completely] until all these things occur. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.’--Matthew 24:3,8,34,35.” - The Watchtower, May 1, 1982, p. 15

      “After drawing attention to the many things that have marked the period from 1914 onward, Jesus said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things [including the end of this system] occur.’ (Matthew 24:34,14) Which generation did Jesus mean? He meant the generation of people who were living in 1914. Those persons yet remaining of that generation are now very old. However, some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon. Some of the generation living in 1914 will see the end of the system of things and survive it.” -  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.

      ILLUSTRATION: “1914 The Generation That Will Not Pass Away” - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, title page

      “If Jesus used ‘generation’ in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80’s or 90’s, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive. Some of them ‘will by no means pass away until all things occur.’ --Luke 21:32” - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, p. 5

      “From a purely human viewpoint, it could appear that these developments could hardly take place before the generation of 1914 disappears from the scene. But fulfillment of all the foretold events affecting the generation of 1914 does not depend on comparatively slow human action. Jehovah’s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: ‘This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.’ (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son’s words in a relatively short time.--Isaiah 46:9,10; 55:10,11.”
      - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, pp. 6-7

      “Today, a small percentage of mankind can still recall the dramatic events of 1914. Will that elderly generation pass away before God saves the earth from ruin? Not according to Bible prophecy. ‘When you see all these things,’ Jesus promised, ‘know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’--Matthew 24:33,34” - The Watchtower, May 1, 1992, p. 3

      “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.” - Awake!, October 22, 1995, p. 4


      “Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the ‘great tribulation’ would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However, we ‘bring a heart of wisdom in,’ not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we ‘count our days’ in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah. (Psalm 90:12) Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term ‘generation’ as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” - The Watchtower, November 1, 1995, p. 17


      “Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy today, ‘this generation’ apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ’s presence but fail to mend their ways...Does our more precise viewpoint on ‘this generation’ mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! Though we at no time have known the ‘day and hour,’ Jehovah God has always known it, and he does not change.” - The Watchtower, November 1, 1995, pp. 19-20

      “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.” - Awake!, November 8, 1995, p. 4
       
      One hundred years on from the Great War

       
    • By Jack Ryan
      If the love you have for your children is predicated on their beliefs, you don't love your children you love YOUR beliefs
    • By Jack Ryan
      In previous decades, when someone was disfellowshipped, they were told their time would be 6 months. Now it’s a full year?
      Why did that change from 6 mo to a year? and are they getting more ppl to come back with the increased time? With the less members staying in the org, you would think they want to lower the “jail time “
      Also are there any other religions that gives you months or years of time out, if you commit a sin, even if you actually want to come back?
      Also any former elders here? Why is there a standard set time for everyone? And why can they reject someone’s letter who wants to come back? Don’t they need more members ?
    • By Jack Ryan
      Jehovah's Witness Organization Redefines Shunning to Falsely.mp4
      Every JW visiting this page should MORALLY comment below and publicly state that this JW Lawyer is LYING through his teeth to the Canadian Supreme Court.
      If you don't, YOU participate in this gross sin. Because you ALL KNOW this is a false statement.
      Remember as well that this JW Lawyer is also an Officer of the Court.
      What the courts do not know is that JW's consider outright lying in court a part of "theocratic warfare" just like Muslims do. So it is a virtue to them.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. SMH.
      Can you spell P-E-R-J-U-R-Y?
    • By Jack Ryan
      "Sunday, December 30
      Asa’s heart was complete with Jehovah all his life.—1 Ki. 15:14.
      Each of us can examine his heart to see if it is fully devoted to God. Ask yourself, ‘Am I determined to please Jehovah, to defend true worship, and to protect his people from any corrupting influence?’ For example, what if someone close to you has to be disfellowshipped? Would you take decisive action by ceasing to associate with that person? What would your heart move you to do? Like Asa, you can show that you have a complete heart by fully relying on God when you are faced with opposition, even some that may seem insurmountable. You may be teased or ridiculed at school for taking a stand as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Or colleagues at work may taunt you for taking days off for spiritual activities or for not often working overtime. In such situations, pray to God, just as Asa did. (2 Chron. 14:11) Remain firm for what you know is right and wise. Remember that God strengthened and helped Asa, and He will strengthen you.
      w17.03 3:6-8 "

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    • By Jack Ryan
      This was a case where in June 1987, the United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld the Witnesses' right to shun those who fail to live by the group's standards and doctrines, upholding the ruling of a lower court.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Has there been any cases after this, where DF cases went to court? Have there been cases in other countries were DF decisions were challenged and reversed?
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Here in the United States we have Cable TV with such things as "History Channel", "Discovery Channel", "Scifi Channel", and "A&E" the "Arts and Entertainment Channel".  Apparently around November 13 of this year they had a famous (?) TV star, Leah Remini,  who had been a Scientologist since she was eight years old turn Apostate, and she has done at least two TV seasons exposing the ills of the Church of Scientology", do an Expose' of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      I do not watch TV as a rule, and missed it, and I spent a few days looking for it and trying to download a copy.  It was not on YouTube, but I did find it under "Aftermath Jehovah's Witnesses" on the Russian equivalent of YouTube, "Rutube.ru". It would not download with my usual download software, so I had to find a free screen capture software, which took about four hours to get the settings just right, and I was able to download the two hour program from my monitor, as it was playing.
      Therefore, I watched the TV program three times, as I experimented with the settings to get a good screen copy to my hard drive..
      I could see both sides of the program viewpoints presented, and did not find us to be misrepresented in any way whatsoever ... but if there was EVER a clear example of the Law of Unintended Consequences, the horror the Governing Body has caused in disfellowshipping the way that it is currently done ... by ripping families apart, and creating  irreparable damage that can never be corrected with reinstatement, was chilling, and puts us in the same class as Scientologists ... which completely disregarding the horror and hardsip, and cruelty without any mercy whatsoever it creates locally, shames Jehovah's Name and Reputation over the whole planet.
      I don't believe there is anything a local Jehovah's Witness could do ... rob a bank ... have a harem ... have sex with horses ... etc., ad nauseum ... that would besmirch Jehovah's name and reputation globally as much as our current blatantly cruel public policies of destroying whole families for the sins of one person.
      I am very glad to have the education I have to know that the TRUTH is still the truth .... even though the 85% drivel has rotted and fermented into rotten sewage.
      Most JWs do NOT have this educational advantage ... so their lives are permanently destroyed.
      I don't expect much from people, and almost NOTHING from groups of people .... so for me, like getting one of those great salads at the Olive Garden Restaurant, and finding a big chunk of solid sewage in it ... I hold my nose, and eat around it.
      This TV Special is global news .... what could I possibly say to the average person that would clear the Name of God, that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, NOT THE TELEVISION PROGRAM, has corrupted by its Pharisaic policies that have real world consequences?
      The exact same thing happened in ancient Israel, and a system that God blessed and supported for a thousand years and more was abandoned by God.
      The exact same thing.
       
       
       
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      CAN A PERSON ... OR SHOULD A PERSON . BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED IN ABSTENSIA?
      Here is the situation .....  a person REPORTED to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused, and NOT convicted ( ... because he is a fugitive from Justice ...) .....

      Apparently he was at one time in a "Position Of Authority", which possibly alludes to his being an  "Elder", and he may have relocated to another State or even another Country. Possibly using an alias.
      The  various Congregation Elders cannot find him, the Society cannot find him, and the U.S. Marshal's Service cannot find him.
      Not having any indication to the contrary ... at least from the information given in the pseudo-Wanted Poster shown above, he is possibly still officially one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      Whether he is or not, his bad example raises an interesting  aspect of trying to figure out how the disfellowshipping "system" protocol actually works.
      Can any of the Congregations  he went to disfellowship him without his being present  to answer charges ?
      ... and SHOULD he be?
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
      I was a teenager in the 60's,  and I had a good friend that on Scout camping trips I introduced to the Truth, and I was there in NYC at Yankee Stadium when he was baptized as one of Jehovah's Witness. He was a true "straight arrow", and pioneered, always dressed immaculately, and eventually over the years became an Elder.
      One night, at an Elder's Meeting, he announced to the other Elders that he was Jesus Christ, and that his mother was the virgin Mary, and of course he was disfellowshipped.
      He spent several years in private mental institutions until his insurance money ran out, then in a State institution for several years.
      He called me up, and told me the story, and I told him I was the Great Turtleman, and every November, before I hibernated, I rose from the swamp and gave toys to all the good little boys and girls.  I was just pulling his leg, but he was dead serious.
      Later, he was in England, while his wife was trying without success to get him to take his medications, and fell over a balcony at Heathrow Airport and got killed.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
       
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