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Albert Michelson

Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?

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7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Besides,

9 hours ago, Albert Michelson said:

Don't get me started on all the other type and anti-type BS that The organization has pushed on people over the years

they changed that.

The 1914 doctrine is a type and anti-type and is the most fundamental doctrine that they have and they have yet to get rid of that.  Oh  and their belief  that Isaiah encouraging the people to return to Jerusalem was a type and the new world that God would establish would be the anti-type.  Oh and that Charles Russell was the anti type of John the Baptist and was the one clearing up the way in Malachi.  I can't think of anymore off the top my head but there are a ton more where Jehovah's Witnesses still have type and anti-type teachings that don't match the Bible whatsoever or that at least require huge leaps of faith with absolutely no evidence to support them.

 Sure they got  rid of most of what Fred Franz had concocted  but they still have a lot left over.

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. They're not.

Why harp on them, then? Who cares?

 

 The 10 that I listed are fundamental doctrine's but  The long list of unimportant doctrines I don't feel need to be included.  I ended with one example but there's probably a lot more that I can think of.  Oh like how they teach that animals didn't die before Adam and eve sinned even though they accept that the earth is billions of years old and that animal life has been on the planet for much longer than human life.   They don't stress that doctrine but it still is technically what they believe, look up the wt  references to genesis 2:4 

 

 Oh and as far as who cares apparently they do considering the fact that if you don't believe these doctrines you can be cast out of the congregation and shunned by all of your friends and family.  They're especially concerned with the 1914 doctrine for the reasons that I mentioned before.  And you really don't see anything wrong with teaching a false gospel (good news) do you?  In my experience JW's will rationalize everything away.  Well at least we don't teach the Trinity, hellfire, or immortality of the soul :)

 

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13 minutes ago, Albert Michelson said:

 Sure they got  rid of most of what Fred Franz had concocted  but they still have a lot left over.

Oh and  I always find it hilarious whenever the organization tries to claim that they've provided wonderful spiritual food throughout the years.  I don't know how anyone examining the material that the organization has produced could in good conscience call it good food. 

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10 hours ago, Albert Michelson said:

The teaching of Christ's millennial year reign. In reality the Bible says nothing about Jesus ruling for only 1000 years. The scriptures that they point to to support this say that the ones "executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus" would come to live and rule for 1000 years. It is their rule that lasts a millennium not Jesus. Revelation 20:4

FWIW, I think you have at least a partial point on all the other pieces of the puzzle you mentioned. But I'm not sure how you manage the beliefs surrounding Armageddon and the Millennium. I know there are a lot of options, but I was wondering how you work out "next the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his Father." (1 Cor 15:24)

 

 

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8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

they changed that.

For some reason they brought one back. (Malachi 3:1)  I think after realizing that they had demoted Russell from the FDS, they realized they needed him again for some kind of continuity attached to the "Watch Tower" name.

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10 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

FWIW, I think you have at least a partial point on all the other pieces of the puzzle you mentioned. But I'm not sure how you manage the beliefs surrounding Armageddon and the Millennium. I know there are a lot of options, but I was wondering how you work out "next the end, when he hands the Kingdom back to his father." (1 Cor 15:24)

 Sorry I was rushing through my breakdown of some of these things so I didn't explain it very well.  I think you included this in your list of issues with the 1914 teaching but I personally believe that the Bible makes it pretty clear that Jesus took the throne after ascending to heaven  in the first century.  So his rulership continues for an  unspecified amount of time and at some point during that rule the 144,000 would be resurrected  and they would begin to rule with him but only for 1000 years.  So what I was trying to say is that it is their rulership that is only 1000 years not his. 

 Now I know there are some technicalities here because technically the organization teaches that there are two kingdoms.  The whole kingdom of the son of his love thing that they instituted in order to explain how Jesus could have taken kingdom power in the first century and then taken it again in 1914 

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4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

For some reason they brought one back.

 Yeah I haven't really done a sweep of all the doctrines to see which ones are type and anti-type still but I'm sure there are more than just the three that I listed.

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31 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

For some reason they brought one back

Maybe they will send it packing again someday.

 

1 hour ago, Albert Michelson said:

They don't stress that doctrine but it still is technically what they believe, look up the wt  references to genesis 2:4 

Come now - it is not a 'doctrine' every time they blow their nose, far less one you have to repeat. 

34 minutes ago, Albert Michelson said:

Yeah I haven't really done a sweep of all the doctrines to see which ones are type and anti-type still but I'm sure there are more than just the three that I listed.

You get almost as much bang for the buck, with no downside, saying "this reminds us of that." Isn't that a good way to do it, so as not to get certain people going?

It reminds me of when I once conducted the Watchtower Study and one of the titles for the review was 'How would you answer?' I used to point out that one could not go wrong here. Even if you said the most ridiculous thing in the world - well - that is how you would answer.

1 hour ago, Albert Michelson said:

Oh and  I always find it hilarious whenever the organization tries to claim that they've provided wonderful spiritual food throughout the years.  I don't know how anyone examining the material that the organization has produced could in good conscience call it good food. 

It is good food because it makes you nicer over the years. See? Aren't they all nice here?

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is good food because it makes you nicer over the years. See? Aren't they all nice here?

You are, the witnesses telling my wife and I that we're going to die and calling us horrible names because we aren't going to meetings aren't. 

 

23 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

some opposers are demagoguing it up -insinuating,

Nope that's not what we say that's strait from the leadership (see picture below)

 

23 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

supposedly 'naive' or 'false' claims that it's voluntary,

Um it isn't, not for many at least. And it's just as much an issue of information control and maintaining authority as it is keeping the group "unified".

IMG_0437.JPG

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27 minutes ago, Albert Michelson said:

You are, the witnesses telling my wife and I that we're going to die and calling us horrible names because we aren't going to meetings aren't. 

That's horrible. I can assure you that many JWs would not do something that insensitive. 

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1 hour ago, Albert Michelson said:

You are, the witnesses telling my wife and I that we're going to die and calling us horrible names because we aren't going to meetings aren't. 

I was actually being facetious. We aren't, in many cases, and that's especially demonstrated online. 

Granted, it is not easy. Online conversations everywhere about anything are seldom more than screamfests. However, I suspect there are some Witnesses who go online because they can dispense with the manners that would get them kicked off the doorstep in a heartbeat.

It is the human condition - certainly not primarily true of Witnesses. it is the same situation as persons 'nice as pie' publicly who let down all restraint at home. Witnesses should be better, for they represent Jehovah - that's all I am saying - and that is not always true.

Again, I backtrack a bit. To some extent this forum is fake news, in that it bills itself as a Witness-friendly site, drawing people in from Twitter (which is how I got here). Whether that is right or wrong, who can say? This is the internet and people can do what they want. But many of our people come aboard under false expectations, rove around a little, discover some poisonous people (not you) who are as in-your-face obnoxious as can be - and they lose it! They reach for the spear like Phinehas, not realizing they leave a permanent online trial. (which is quickly buried, however) 

If they anyone spoke mean to you and your wife, I apologize. Not that it matters that I do, but I do anyway. On the other hand, when my daughter was asked whether one had to be a Witness to survive Armageddon, she said: "Well, I'm not Jesus. And I don't know."

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nana Fofana said:

Okay, well, re that:  typos - means breath, wind, blowing-as in glassblowing?, or whatever force the causer would use to form something or express his "express image", for instance[?]

And "anti"-typos would be something striking "against" a typos.  "Anti-Christ" might be to "Christ" as "anti-matter" would be to "matter".  if So, it seems to me, that "anti-type" has been not an accurate word to use when referring to  a "prophetic pattern".

The OED has the following as the very first definitions of the noun "type." Nothing to do with breath, wind or glassblowing. The word type is probably more closely related to the word beat or strike.
 

Quote

type, n.1            (taɪp)              Also 6–7 tipe.

[ad. F. type (16th c. in Littré) or L. typus, a. Gr. τύπος impression, figure, type, f. the root of τύπτειν to beat, strike.]

1. a. That by which something is symbolized or figured; anything having a symbolical signification; a symbol, emblem; spec. in Theol. a person, object, or event of Old Testament history, prefiguring some person or thing revealed in the new dispensation; correl. to antitype. in (the) type, in symbolic representation.

   c 1470 Henryson Mor. Fab. (S.T.S.) 579 Suppose this be ane Fabill, And ouerheillit with typis figurall.    1590 ‘Hobynoll’ To Learned Sheph. v. in Spenser's F.Q. (Pref. Verses), That fare Ilands right, Which thou dost vayle in Type of Faery land, Elizas blessed field, that Albion hight.    1607 Hieron Wks. I. 104 The people of Israel were a tipe of Gods people: Canaan a tipe of heauen.    1654 Jer. Taylor Real Pres. v. 103 He offered wine not water in the type‥of his bloud.    1706 Prior Ode to Queen xxxiv, The British Rose, Type of sweet Rule, and gentle Majesty.    1781 Fletcher Lett. Wks. 1795 VII. 236 [Marriage] the most perfect type of our Lords union with his church.    1829 The Bengallee 182 The Hookah's monstrous snake.‥ That type of eastern Luxury's excess.    1851 Kingsley in Life (1878) I. 255 It is only in proportion as we appreciate and understand the types that we can understand the anti-types.    1863 M. Howitt F. Bremer's Greece II. xii. 29 A river is always the type of human life.    1875 Manning Mission H. Ghost i. 15 Ceremonial actions, and washings, and purifications, which were the types and shadows of things to come.

b.1.b An imperfect symbol or anticipation of something. nonce-use.

   1754 Foote Knights i. Wks. 1799 I. 62 The very abstract of penury! Sir John Cutler, with his transmigrated stockings, was but a type of him.

†2.2 a.2.a A figure or picture of something; a representation; an image or imitation. Obs. rare.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nana Fofana said:

In 33 he was given authority over those who voluntarily submit themselves to his rulership, over his congregation.

So you do not believe Jesus when he said he had just been given "ALL authority in heaven and on earth"?

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2 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

Okay.  So You're right and I was wrong, this once.  So what???  I *told* you it wasn't a disproof necessarily.

Just kidding .  it's embarrassing-yes.

Origin and Etymology of antitype

I've been trying to answer you for the longest time but I keep making types - um, typos.   :)

Between the Supremes and Led Zeppelin, you are starting to reveal the arena in which you are a prophetess.

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2 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

Yes, of course.  Given authority to command in the name of [authority of] Father,son, and holy spirit,   over those who voluntarily submit to him as their head, his congregation, body, bride [eventually numbering 144,000] that he bought from the earth: command them to go and make disciples and baptize in the name of [authority of] Father,son, and holy spirit.  like ,"Stop! in the name of love, before you break my heart!"

You are saying that Jesus was mistaken then, because he said that "ALL authority had already been given to him in heaven and on earth." You seem to be confusing his authority with the first things that Jesus did with that authority. The first thing that Jesus did was transfer subjects from all walks of life into the Kingdom.

It's as if the King of England back in, let's say, the year 1033 CE, just gets into power and says "I am now the King of England, and I now have all authority over the land: both over peasants and land-owners alike." Then he goes on to say that the first thing he will do is accept delegates from all the peasant populations who will voluntary come to London to "bend the knee" in respect to their new king.

Based on that King-of-England scenario, you might now have a bunch of peasants saying: "Guess what? Even though the new king claims to have all authority, it's not not really true, he really only has authority over those of us peasants who voluntarily 'bend the knee' to him. We should make sure that all the land-owners are aware that it's OK not to accept him as a real king over them yet. We don't even have to call him 'king.' It's more like a mini-king over a mini-peasant-kingdom. And he really only has authority over us if we voluntarily offer it. Maybe some time near the end of his kingship over the land will we need to accept the idea that he was truly given ALL authority."
 

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2 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

It's as if the King of England back in, let's say, the year 1033 CE, just gets into power and says "I am now the King of England, and I now have all authority over the land: both over peasants and land-owners alike.

'There's a new king in town'

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Guest J.R. Ewing

Ah! Yes, the Walsh trial. A Brother (JW) suing the government over National (Armed) Service in 1954. And since the government didn’t believe the sect JW was actually a religion? They tried their best to discredit the Watchtower by attempting to show the “Lords in Common” (court Judges) this sect were just fanatics, and lairs.

If anyone wishes to “read” the “TRUE” transcript of the case, it’s available online. Just be careful, since “apostates” have rewritten some pages of the transcript to bolster their ignorant claims. One, that has been submitted here already is a good example since it was gathered by an apostate book.

I believe, it has become a theme for some here to gather untruthful propaganda to engage in a conversation, from a false premise. But that’s what happens when people believe an ex-witness (Bethelite) kicked out from Bethel and is now bent on discrediting the Watchtower in every possible way by insinuating the 1914 doctrine is “false”, when NOT, any ex-witness can “disprove” it.

And this heretical thought that itÂ’s up to us to prove it, is subjectable since theyÂ’re the ones that bring it up. So, itÂ’s for them to prove it wrong. Now, on the other hand, Pastor Russell, proved to the world, his calculations he started 40 years earlier came to a completion. That event was confirmed by worldly conditions.

It’s ironic, that people make every attempt to discredit “time prophecy” when they can’t, and they only choose the Watchtower when there are literally hundreds of predictions on file, with the last one done for this year (2017). That means, Satan must “really” hate the Watchtower for some reason, that people just can’t wrap their head around, this simple unforgotten FACT!

 

Example of Apostate Manipulation: Lying in Court

The Watchtower has a long history of using the theocratic warfare doctrine in court–from the first president, C.T. Russell, in his divorce testimony and elsewhere, to Fred Franz, a previous Watchtower president. A now half-century-old example in which less than full honesty is self-evident is the following exchange between Franz and the prosecutor:

Prosecutor:

Have you also made yourself familiar with Hebrew?

Franz:

Yes Â…

Prosecutor:

So that you have a substantial linguistic apparatus at your command?

Franz:

Yes, for use in my biblical work.

Prosecutor:

I think you are able to read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, German, French.

Franz:

Yes. . .

walsh page 7.png

 

Prosecutor:

Can you, yourself translate that into Hebrew?

Franz:

Which?

Prosecutor:

That fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis?

Franz:

No.

(Cross Examination of Fred Franz. PursuerÂ’s Proof of Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham, Clyde, Scottish Court of Sessions, Wednesday, November 24, 1954, p.7, pars. A-B. and p. 102, par. F.)

walsh page 102.png

walsh page 103-1 (2).png

Just like when it comes to the word” shun”. A word exaggerated by disgruntle ex-witnesses. A word synonymous with a wide range of human condition, and emotions.

1.      Can anyone obligate a “family” that has strong cultural ideologies with, let’s say, a family member that becomes “GAY” or LESBIAN”? This condition of “shunning” has nothing to do with being a witness. Since worldly people do it every day!!!!

2.      Can anyone obligate a “family” that has strong cultural ideologies with, let’s say, a family member that becomes addicted to drugs? This condition of “shunning” has nothing to do with being a witness. Since worldly people do it every day!!!

3.      Can anyone obligate a “family” that has strong cultural ideologies with, let’s say, a family member that becomes an alcoholic? This condition of “shunning” has nothing to do with being a witness. Since worldly people do it every day!!!

Now, disfellowship. Show, in scripture, that an unrepentant heart should remain in GodÂ’s grace. If scripture itself implies in 2 Timothy 4:1-5 the conditions of preaching GodÂ’s word.

 

 

 

Now, Punish. ThatÂ’s a subjective word that needs more clarity.

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5 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

If anyone wishes to “read” the “TRUE” transcript of the case, it’s available online. Just be careful, since “apostates” have rewritten some pages of the transcript to bolster their ignorant claims. One, that has been submitted here already is a good example since it was gathered by an apostate book.

Or you could just say 'it was 70 years ago. Who cares? Even if it was 100% faithfully reported, they've had plenty of time to shape up.' Everyone knows the world 70 years ago bears little resemblance to today.

If someone insists on acting as a 10-year old, there's no need to go there with him.

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      All the ideas behind the Watch Tower's version of the 1914 doctrine have already been discussed for decades now, and all of them, so far, have been shown to be problematic from a Scriptural point of view. Since the time that the doctrine generally took its current shape in 1943, the meanings and applications of various portions of Matthew 24 and 25 have already been changed, and the timing of various prophesied events and illustrations have changed. Most recently, the meaning and identification of the "faithful and discreet slave" has changed. And the definition of "generation" has changed about half-a-dozen times. This doesn't mean that the current understandings are impossible, of course, only that it has become less likely from the point of view of reason and reasonableness.
      Besides, for most of the years of teaching this doctrine, we have had the flexibility of extending the "1914 generation" from a possible 40 years, up to 70, then 75, then 80 years. And this has been applied to teenagers who saw 1914, 10-year-olds who saw 1914, then even newborns who saw 1914. With every one of these options already tried and stretched to their limits, we finally were forced to convert the meaning of generation from its most common meanings and give it a new "strained" meaning that has no other Biblical parallel. (See Exodus 1:6; Matthew 1:17; 16:4; 23:36; Luke 11:50)
      But that flexibility is still seen as the last reason for hope that the Watch Tower Society might have still been correct in hanging on to 1914. Since the Bible says that a lifespan is 70 or 80 years and 1914 + 80 = 1994, the "generation" doctrine in its original form (1943) could remain stable until about 1994. Of course, a lifespan could technically reach to 120 years or more, and Gen 6:3 even gives vague support to the idea that the "1914 generation" could last 120 years, until 2034.
      The current alternative solution is to make the generation out of the length of two lifespans, which technically could be double 120 years, or nearly 240 years from 1914. That would have had the potential to reach to the year 2154 (1914+240) except for the caveat that it can, by its new definition, only refer to anointed persons who discerned the sign in 1914 and whose lives overlapped (technically, by as little as one second) with the lifespan of another anointed person representing the second group. If persons from each group don't really discern their own "anointing" until age 20, for example, this would effectively remove 40 years from the overall maximum. 1914+120-20+120-20 = 2114. We could also assume a possible lifespan of more than 120 years, but otherwise, the new two-lifespan generation could potentially make the generation last 200 years. This "technical maximum" is not promoted currently, because for now we look at examples like Fred Franz who was part of that original generation already anointed and who saw the sign, and the typical example of an anointed brother who was apparently "anointed" prior to Franz' death in 1992 would be someone like Governing Body member, Brother Sanderson, who was born in 1965, baptized in 1975, and was already a "special pioneer" in 1991. His is currently 52.
      However, the generation problem is just one more problem now which we can add onto the list of all the other points that make up the 1914 doctrine. Here are several points related to 1914 that appear problematic from a Scriptural point of view:
      All evidence shows the 1914 date is wrong when trying to base it on the destruction of Jerusalem. (Daniel 1:1; 2 Chron 36:1-22; Jer 25:8-12; Zech 1:12, 7:4; Ezra 3:10-13) Paul said that Jesus sat at God's right hand in the first century and that he already began ruling as king at that time. (1 Cor 15:25) Jesus said not to be fooled by the idea that wars and rumors of wars would be the start of a "sign" (Matt 24:4,5) Jesus said that the "parousia" would be as visible as lightning (Matt 24:27). He spoke against people who might say he had returned but was currently not visible. (Matt 24:23-26) Jesus said that his "parousia" would come as a surprise to the faithful, not that they would discern the time of the parousia decades in advance. (Matt 24:36-42) Jesus said that the kingdom would not be indicated by "signs" (Luke 17:20, almost any translation except NWT in this case) The "synteleia" (end of all things together) refers to a concluding event, not an extended period of time (Matt 28:20) Jesus was already called ruler, King and even "King of Kings" in the first century. (1 Tim 6:15, Heb 7:2,17; Rev 1:5; 17:14) Wicked, beastly King Nebuchadnezzar's insanity and humiliation does not represent Jesus as the "lowliest one of mankind." (Heb 1:5,6; 2:10,11; Daniel 4:23-25; cf. Heb 2:7; 1 Pet 3:17,18) The demise of a Gentile kingdom cannot rightly represent the time of the rise of the Gentile kingdoms (Daniel 4:26,27) The Gentile kings did not meet their demise in 1914. (Rev 2:25,26) The time assigned to the Gentile Times that Jesus spoke about in Luke 21:24 is already given as 3.5 times, not 7 times (Revelation 11:2,3) The Devil was already brought down from "heaven" in the first century. (1 John 2:14,15; 1 Pet 5:8; Luke 10:18; Heb 2:14) The Bible says that the "last days" began in the first century. (Acts 2:14-20; 2 Tim 3:1-17; 1 Peter 3:3-5; Heb 1:2, almost any translation except NWT in this case.)
    • By Noble Berean
      "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence" (2 Thessalonians 2:8).
      I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus Christ presence began back in 1914. I also understand that JWs believe the clergy of Christendom represent the Man of Lawlessness. However, if that is the case, why have the clergy thrived since 1914? Shouldn't they be brought to "...nothing by the manifestation of his presence"?
    • By JW Insider
      A recent topic about whether the Watchtower view of 607 BCE is SCRIPTURALLY supported is linked below. This new topic should provide a better place to discuss the SECULAR evidence. I also think it would be useful to discuss the methodology that the Watch Tower Society has historically used to treat this evidence.
      I would hope that we can do this without so much side discussions of unrelated topics. To avoid another topic that goes on for 30+ pages where only half of them were on-topic, I would suggest that if we get enough off-topic posts, we merely move them to another more appropriate topic.
      The link to the most recent topic on a similar subject is here:


       
    • By JW Insider
      Why another topic about 1914 and 607?
      Because we could use a topic where we can all agree a little more easily. Seriously. In this topic, we don't need to worry about whether 607 is correct, or 1914 is correct. No one needs to say why it does or doesn't make sense to them. Let's just see if we can review the possible and probable sources that were influential, and ultimately resulted in 607 and 1914 being accepted as a Bible-based fulfillment of prophecy.
      No one needs to jump from another thread about 607 and Biblical evidence over to this one. In fact, I just read a couple of books last night for the first time, and I had some questions that I couldn't find an answer to, and hoped that someone from that other thread, or anyone really, might have run across the resources that might have answered the questions. I'm reading one more book first, and don't think I'll finish it tonight, so consider this topic to be kind of a placeholder for a couple days.
      So this is the purpose of the three current threads:
      https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/5510-607-bce-is-it-biblically-supported/ a place to discuss mostly the Scriptural evidence for or against the 607 portion of the 1914 doctrine. https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/51655-607-bce-is-there-any-secular-support-for-the-watch-towers-view/ a place to discuss mostly the Secular evidence for or against the 607 portion of the 1914 doctrine. And this current one: a place to discuss the sources that were influential in the WTS accepting the 607 date as part of the 1914 doctrine. One place to start is with a couple sentences in the "Proclaimers" book (next post). I personally intend to avoid a certain book by COJ for this topic, to avoid unnecessary controversy, although anyone should feel free to use any resources from anywhere they wish, as long as it appears to be a statement of fact. Again, this is not about questioning the correctness of the doctrine.
    • By The Librarian
      Master Chronological List > 1914
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  pointed to 1914 as the end of the "Gentile Times" or "The Appointed Times of the Nations."

      Subsequent President of the  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  established 1914 as the date of "Christ's Invisible Return" and crowning as King of  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  which had been previously believed to be 1878. Hence, Jehovah's heavenly Kingdom is established.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  teach that Satan and his demons were cast down to earth from heaven after October 1, 1914 at which point the end times began.

      From 1914 C.E. to the early part of 1918 C.E. or 1,260 days Jehovah's people preached a "sackcloth" message concerning Christendom and the world, in fulfillment of Revelation 11:3, 4. See re pgs. 164-7 pars. 10-18, also see yw pgs. 264-307, also bf pg. 592.

      [KING OF THE NORTH is now Germany, the KING OF THE SOUTH is the alliance between Great Britian and the United States of America, see Daniel 11:27-29], Archduke Francis Ferdinand and his wife, Countess Sophie Chotek, duchess of Hohenberg were assassinated on June 28th in Sarajevo, Bosnia, (now in Bosnia and Herzegovina), by a Serb nationalist. This action precipitated World War I. 
       
      On October 2, 1914, Jesus took the throne. Shortly thereafter, a war in heaven broke out wherein Satan and his demons were cast from the heavens. Satan then became so enraged that he began to wreak havoc upon the earth. One of the first things he did was to start the Great War (WWI). So WWI must have started a few days after October 2, 1914.
       
      “World War I set the violent twentieth century in motion. It was the first use of chemical weapons; the first mass bombardment of civilians from the sky; the century’s first genocide.” So begins the 1996 PBS series The Great War and the Shaping of the Twentieth Century.


      The war’s horrendous prosecution and unsatisfactory end were made even worse by the Versailles Peace Conference, a conclave which created the false peace that only allowed the combatants to rearm and proceed to a second conflict which was even more destructive than the first one. World War II merely took up the Great War’s unfinished business. Indeed many historians call both conflicts Europe’s “Second Thirty Years’ War.”

      The First World War led to the birth of the first communist dictatorship. The world flirted with nuclear destruction as that dictatorship engaged in a murderous rivalry with its erstwhile allies. When the USSR finally imploded, some of the splinter states which emerged from its ruins fell to either fighting among themselves or suffering internecine bloodletting. And the problems elsewhere in southwest Asia as well as the Middle East can be traced to hatreds fostered by European colonialism which the Great War only intensified.

      The world we have today had its birth pangs in World War I. It was Austria-Hungary’s invasion of Serbia on 28 July 1914 that caused a myriad of dominoes to fall—and they are continuing to tumble even now.


      The war shattered an entire world order. In 1914, sixty percent of the world's population lived under the rule of kingdoms or empires. Today less than ten percent do so. The only important royal dynasty to survive the war was the House of Windsor and that was not without challenge. The fragmentation of these empires led to the rise of independent states which continues down to this day as the doctrine of "self-determination", promulgated by Wilson at Versailles, continues to govern many movements in our time.

      But what makes the Great War different from its predecessors is that it was the first fought in all four quarters of the globe and by blocs of nations as opposed to just a few. Its carnage also was unmatched in previous world history. Nobody knows how many actually died although estamates range from fourteen to twenty million. Among its aftershocks were the Spanish Flu, the pandemic that killed more people than the war itself, and widespread famine. So to say that the Great War was not much different from earlier ones entirely misses the point,
       
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      July 28, 1914. Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia. August 1, 1914. Germany Declares War on Russia. August 3, 1914. Germany declares war on France. August 4, 1914. Britain declares war on Germany. August 6, 1914. Austria declares war on Russia. April 6, 1917 - The United States declares war on Germany.
      Depiction from the 
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      Older depiction from the 1982 book "
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      Related Links and Questions
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      1914-2014 - One Hundred Years of Kingdom Rule!

      Where did you find the theme text for 1914?

      Jesus said that "This generation will not pass away until all these things occur." Did he mean the generation that saw saw World War 1 in 1914?

      What shows that Christ became King in 1914?

      When Jesus began ruling as King in 1914, was that the start of the Millennial reign of the Messianic Kingdom?

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      Watchtower Publications from 1914
      YearText: “Be strong and courageous.” Joshua 1:9
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      Berean Studies on The New Creation - C.T. Russell 
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      Return to the 
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      Watchtower_May_15_1984_pages_1_to_7.pdf
      Previous Watchtower Publications quotations concerning 1914
      “Some persons living A.D. 1914 when the series of foretold events began will also be living when the series ends with Armageddon.” - The Watchtower, September 1, 1952, p. 543

      THE TRAIN ILLUSTRATION - Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 5

      “The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the ‘last days’ have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God...Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the ‘last days’ began. Jesus was saying that some of those persons who were alive at the appearance of the ‘sign of the last days’ would still be alive when God brought this system to its end.” - Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 13


      “But there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happening then and who were old enough that they still remember those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes!” -  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.

      “However, there are people still living who were alive in 1914 and saw what was happening then and who were old enough that they still remember those events. This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death. Yet Jesus very pointedly said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. This means that only a short time is left before the end comes!” - The Watchtower, February 15, 1969, p. 101

      “Men of this world offer you nothing stable, nothing sure. Their promises and predictions of better things have failed time and again. Why let yourself be carried along with them in a steadily downward course to ultimate disaster due to rejecting God’s will? God’s prophetic Word has not failed. Time has confirmed its truthfulness, its unerring accuracy. The generation that saw the start of the time of distress that began in 1914 is now dwindling in numbers. Before it passes off the scene the prophesied ‘great tribulation’ will come. You can be among the joyful survivors, experience deliverance from a world system that has proved oppressive, unworkable and death dealing.” - The Watchtower, February 1, 1971, p. 69

      “And the remaining ones of that generation of 1914 are still talking about it. Some of them will be talking about it right down to the time when the ‘great tribulation’ wipes Satan’s wicked system of things off the face of our globe. For Jesus Christ himself assures us: ‘Truly I say to you that this generation [the generation that saw the ‘beginning of pangs of distress’ in 1914] will by no means pass away [completely] until all these things occur. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.’--Matthew 24:3,8,34,35.” - The Watchtower, May 1, 1982, p. 15

      “After drawing attention to the many things that have marked the period from 1914 onward, Jesus said: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things [including the end of this system] occur.’ (Matthew 24:34,14) Which generation did Jesus mean? He meant the generation of people who were living in 1914. Those persons yet remaining of that generation are now very old. However, some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon. Some of the generation living in 1914 will see the end of the system of things and survive it.” -  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.

      ILLUSTRATION: “1914 The Generation That Will Not Pass Away” - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, title page

      “If Jesus used ‘generation’ in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80’s or 90’s, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive. Some of them ‘will by no means pass away until all things occur.’ --Luke 21:32” - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, p. 5

      “From a purely human viewpoint, it could appear that these developments could hardly take place before the generation of 1914 disappears from the scene. But fulfillment of all the foretold events affecting the generation of 1914 does not depend on comparatively slow human action. Jehovah’s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: ‘This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.’ (Luke 21:32) And Jehovah, who is the source of inspired and unfailing prophecy, will bring about the fulfillment of his Son’s words in a relatively short time.--Isaiah 46:9,10; 55:10,11.”
      - The Watchtower, May 15, 1984, pp. 6-7

      “Today, a small percentage of mankind can still recall the dramatic events of 1914. Will that elderly generation pass away before God saves the earth from ruin? Not according to Bible prophecy. ‘When you see all these things,’ Jesus promised, ‘know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’--Matthew 24:33,34” - The Watchtower, May 1, 1992, p. 3

      “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.” - Awake!, October 22, 1995, p. 4


      “Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the ‘great tribulation’ would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However, we ‘bring a heart of wisdom in,’ not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we ‘count our days’ in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah. (Psalm 90:12) Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term ‘generation’ as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” - The Watchtower, November 1, 1995, p. 17


      “Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy today, ‘this generation’ apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ’s presence but fail to mend their ways...Does our more precise viewpoint on ‘this generation’ mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! Though we at no time have known the ‘day and hour,’ Jehovah God has always known it, and he does not change.” - The Watchtower, November 1, 1995, pp. 19-20

      “Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.” - Awake!, November 8, 1995, p. 4
       
      One hundred years on from the Great War

       
    • By Jack Ryan
      If the love you have for your children is predicated on their beliefs, you don't love your children you love YOUR beliefs
    • By Jack Ryan
      In previous decades, when someone was disfellowshipped, they were told their time would be 6 months. Now it’s a full year?
      Why did that change from 6 mo to a year? and are they getting more ppl to come back with the increased time? With the less members staying in the org, you would think they want to lower the “jail time “
      Also are there any other religions that gives you months or years of time out, if you commit a sin, even if you actually want to come back?
      Also any former elders here? Why is there a standard set time for everyone? And why can they reject someone’s letter who wants to come back? Don’t they need more members ?
    • By Jack Ryan
      Jehovah's Witness Organization Redefines Shunning to Falsely.mp4
      Every JW visiting this page should MORALLY comment below and publicly state that this JW Lawyer is LYING through his teeth to the Canadian Supreme Court.
      If you don't, YOU participate in this gross sin. Because you ALL KNOW this is a false statement.
      Remember as well that this JW Lawyer is also an Officer of the Court.
      What the courts do not know is that JW's consider outright lying in court a part of "theocratic warfare" just like Muslims do. So it is a virtue to them.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. SMH.
      Can you spell P-E-R-J-U-R-Y?
    • By Jack Ryan
      "Sunday, December 30
      Asa’s heart was complete with Jehovah all his life.—1 Ki. 15:14.
      Each of us can examine his heart to see if it is fully devoted to God. Ask yourself, ‘Am I determined to please Jehovah, to defend true worship, and to protect his people from any corrupting influence?’ For example, what if someone close to you has to be disfellowshipped? Would you take decisive action by ceasing to associate with that person? What would your heart move you to do? Like Asa, you can show that you have a complete heart by fully relying on God when you are faced with opposition, even some that may seem insurmountable. You may be teased or ridiculed at school for taking a stand as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Or colleagues at work may taunt you for taking days off for spiritual activities or for not often working overtime. In such situations, pray to God, just as Asa did. (2 Chron. 14:11) Remain firm for what you know is right and wise. Remember that God strengthened and helped Asa, and He will strengthen you.
      w17.03 3:6-8 "

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    • By Jack Ryan
      This was a case where in June 1987, the United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld the Witnesses' right to shun those who fail to live by the group's standards and doctrines, upholding the ruling of a lower court.

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Has there been any cases after this, where DF cases went to court? Have there been cases in other countries were DF decisions were challenged and reversed?
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Here in the United States we have Cable TV with such things as "History Channel", "Discovery Channel", "Scifi Channel", and "A&E" the "Arts and Entertainment Channel".  Apparently around November 13 of this year they had a famous (?) TV star, Leah Remini,  who had been a Scientologist since she was eight years old turn Apostate, and she has done at least two TV seasons exposing the ills of the Church of Scientology", do an Expose' of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      I do not watch TV as a rule, and missed it, and I spent a few days looking for it and trying to download a copy.  It was not on YouTube, but I did find it under "Aftermath Jehovah's Witnesses" on the Russian equivalent of YouTube, "Rutube.ru". It would not download with my usual download software, so I had to find a free screen capture software, which took about four hours to get the settings just right, and I was able to download the two hour program from my monitor, as it was playing.
      Therefore, I watched the TV program three times, as I experimented with the settings to get a good screen copy to my hard drive..
      I could see both sides of the program viewpoints presented, and did not find us to be misrepresented in any way whatsoever ... but if there was EVER a clear example of the Law of Unintended Consequences, the horror the Governing Body has caused in disfellowshipping the way that it is currently done ... by ripping families apart, and creating  irreparable damage that can never be corrected with reinstatement, was chilling, and puts us in the same class as Scientologists ... which completely disregarding the horror and hardsip, and cruelty without any mercy whatsoever it creates locally, shames Jehovah's Name and Reputation over the whole planet.
      I don't believe there is anything a local Jehovah's Witness could do ... rob a bank ... have a harem ... have sex with horses ... etc., ad nauseum ... that would besmirch Jehovah's name and reputation globally as much as our current blatantly cruel public policies of destroying whole families for the sins of one person.
      I am very glad to have the education I have to know that the TRUTH is still the truth .... even though the 85% drivel has rotted and fermented into rotten sewage.
      Most JWs do NOT have this educational advantage ... so their lives are permanently destroyed.
      I don't expect much from people, and almost NOTHING from groups of people .... so for me, like getting one of those great salads at the Olive Garden Restaurant, and finding a big chunk of solid sewage in it ... I hold my nose, and eat around it.
      This TV Special is global news .... what could I possibly say to the average person that would clear the Name of God, that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, NOT THE TELEVISION PROGRAM, has corrupted by its Pharisaic policies that have real world consequences?
      The exact same thing happened in ancient Israel, and a system that God blessed and supported for a thousand years and more was abandoned by God.
      The exact same thing.
       
       
       
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      CAN A PERSON ... OR SHOULD A PERSON . BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED IN ABSTENSIA?
      Here is the situation .....  a person REPORTED to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused, and NOT convicted ( ... because he is a fugitive from Justice ...) .....

      Apparently he was at one time in a "Position Of Authority", which possibly alludes to his being an  "Elder", and he may have relocated to another State or even another Country. Possibly using an alias.
      The  various Congregation Elders cannot find him, the Society cannot find him, and the U.S. Marshal's Service cannot find him.
      Not having any indication to the contrary ... at least from the information given in the pseudo-Wanted Poster shown above, he is possibly still officially one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
      Whether he is or not, his bad example raises an interesting  aspect of trying to figure out how the disfellowshipping "system" protocol actually works.
      Can any of the Congregations  he went to disfellowship him without his being present  to answer charges ?
      ... and SHOULD he be?
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
      I was a teenager in the 60's,  and I had a good friend that on Scout camping trips I introduced to the Truth, and I was there in NYC at Yankee Stadium when he was baptized as one of Jehovah's Witness. He was a true "straight arrow", and pioneered, always dressed immaculately, and eventually over the years became an Elder.
      One night, at an Elder's Meeting, he announced to the other Elders that he was Jesus Christ, and that his mother was the virgin Mary, and of course he was disfellowshipped.
      He spent several years in private mental institutions until his insurance money ran out, then in a State institution for several years.
      He called me up, and told me the story, and I told him I was the Great Turtleman, and every November, before I hibernated, I rose from the swamp and gave toys to all the good little boys and girls.  I was just pulling his leg, but he was dead serious.
      Later, he was in England, while his wife was trying without success to get him to take his medications, and fell over a balcony at Heathrow Airport and got killed.
      DO  WE STILL  DISFELLOWSHIP  THE  MENTALLY  ILL ?
       
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