Jump to content

Alessandro Corona

Demonism and the Watchtower

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

Alessandro Corona -
Anna -
191
5647

Top Posters


Recommended Posts


On 9/5/2017 at 0:02 PM, Cos said:

But then in 1962, knowing full well of Greber’s occult connections they quoted his demon inspired “translation” of the New Testament to support the NWT rendering of certain passages (see the Watchtower September 15, 1962, page 554).

I would add that probably you know really how insignificant this reference is in support of your claim of:

On 9/3/2017 at 5:01 AM, Cos said:

how often they [WT] cite occult sources

There is as much credibilty and relevance in this claim as there would be in suggesting  that Luke the Gospel writer relied on an occult source for the words recorded at, for example, Luke 4:9-11. I can't be bothered to cite other examples in Scripture as the claim is so preposterous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

I would add that probably you know really how insignificant this reference is in support of your claim of:

There is as much credibilty and relevance in this claim as there would be in suggesting  that Luke the Gospel writer relied on an occult source for the words recorded at, for example, Luke 4:9-11. I can't be bothered to cite other examples in Scripture as the claim is so preposterous.

Gone Fishing,

 

Why do you think that this is “insignificant” in the context of the thread?

 

Is it true? Yes!

 

Luke 4 records Jesus’ interaction with the Devil, but nowhere in that discourse does Luke “support” the actions or speech of the Devil. So it is preposterous for you to say that that is similar!

 

Does the Watchtower agree with the occultist teachings? Yes.

 

Why does 1 Tim. 4:1 speak out against demon inspired teaching if it’s insignificant? Because this is what is to happen and is happening!

 

Why play down the fact that the Watchtower is in accord with demonic teachings?

 

The Watchtower's occult links are true. <><

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cos said:

Why do you think that this is “insignificant” in the context of the thread?

insignificant

ɪnsɪɡˈnɪfɪk(ə)nt/

adjective

1. too small or unimportant to be worth consideration.

"the sum required was insignificant compared with military spending"

synonyms:unimportant, of minor importance, of no importance, of little importance, of little import, trivial, trifling, footling, negligible, inconsequential, of little consequence, of no consequence, of no account, of no moment, inconsiderable, not worth mentioning, not worth speaking of, nugatory, meagre, paltry, scanty, petty, insubstantial, unsubstantial, flimsy, frivolous, pointless, worthless, irrelevant, immaterial, peripheral, extraneous, non-essential; 

2. meaningless.

"insignificant yet enchanting phrases"

The point of reference has no relevance to the assertions made.

8 minutes ago, Cos said:

nowhere in that discourse does Luke “support” the actions or speech of the Devil.

By the same token, nowhere does the WT "support" the actions or speech of the Devil. To claim otherwise is "preposterous".

In fact, Jesus faced similar stupid assertions from religionists in his day:

(Matthew 12:24)

"the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Be·elʹze·bub, the ruler of the demons.”

and dealt with them graciously:

(Matthew 12:25-28) 

"Knowing their thoughts, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.  In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?  Moreover, if I expel the demons by means of Be·elʹze·bub, by whom do your sons expel them? This is why they will be your judges.  But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you."
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

insignificant

ɪnsɪɡˈnɪfɪk(ə)nt/

adjective

1. too small or unimportant to be worth consideration.

"the sum required was insignificant compared with military spending"

synonyms:unimportant, of minor importance, of no importance, of little importance, of little import, trivial, trifling, footling, negligible, inconsequential, of little consequence, of no consequence, of no account, of no moment, inconsiderable, not worth mentioning, not worth speaking of, nugatory, meagre, paltry, scanty, petty, insubstantial, unsubstantial, flimsy, frivolous, pointless, worthless, irrelevant, immaterial, peripheral, extraneous, non-essential; 

2. meaningless.

"insignificant yet enchanting phrases"

The point of reference has no relevance to the assertions made.

By the same token, nowhere does the WT "support" the actions or speech of the Devil. To claim otherwise is "preposterous".

In fact, Jesus faced similar stupid assertions from religionists in his day:

(Matthew 12:24)

"the Pharisees said: “This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Be·elʹze·bub, the ruler of the demons.”

and dealt with them graciously:

(Matthew 12:25-28) 

"Knowing their thoughts, he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.  In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?  Moreover, if I expel the demons by means of Be·elʹze·bub, by whom do your sons expel them? This is why they will be your judges.  But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you."
 

Gone fishing,

 

The Watchtower DO support the utterance of demons, they acknowledge this by citing for support of their own teaching, an occultist!

 

Gone Fishing, I thought you were a bit more astute, but it seems not, the Jews FALSELY accused Jesus of being in league with the Devil, how is that the same as the Watchtower agreeing with demon inspired teachings?

 

Answer this simple question; did the Watchtower use the renderings of Johannes Greber’s NT to support their own renderings of NT passages? Yes or no?

 

The Bible firmly condemns any alliance with occult teachings! <><

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cos said:

did the Watchtower use the renderings of Johannes Greber’s NT to support their own renderings of NT passages? 

Yes, and even if they distance themselves from it now, it is still the basis of the nwt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Cos said:

how is that the same as the Watchtower agreeing with demon inspired teachings?

This is a FALSE accusation as was the accusation of the Pharisees and scribes regarding the teachings of Jesus.

10 hours ago, Cos said:

did the Watchtower use the renderings of Johannes Greber’s NT to support their own renderings of NT passages? Yes or no?

Only in that Greber's rendering is perfectly acceptable and conveys the correct meaning of the text. As do other renderings of the passage in question. The Word of God does not need the support of Greber, or any other human authority for that matter.

The reluctance of religionistas to accept that Greber could get a scriptural passage right due to his personal beliefs is quite unfounded and displays a level of prejudice and ignorance of the Word of God. Demon inspired individuals can pronounce God's truths, like it or not. We have a number of scriptural examples of this.

Unfortunately for opponents, this rather baseless accusation only serves to embarass it's proponents and display a remarkable lack of appreciation for Jesus' masterful response to the accusers of his day. "“Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand." Matt 12:25 (Consider the context).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

This is a FALSE accusation as was the accusation of the Pharisees and scribes regarding the teachings of Jesus.

Only in that Greber's rendering is perfectly acceptable and conveys the correct meaning of the text. As do other renderings of the passage in question. The Word of God does not need the support of Greber, or any other human authority for that matter.

The reluctance of religionistas to accept that Greber could get a scriptural passage right due to his personal beliefs is quite unfounded and displays a level of prejudice and ignorance of the Word of God. Demon inspired individuals can pronounce God's truths, like it or not. We have a number of scriptural examples of this.

Unfortunately for opponents, this rather baseless accusation only serves to embarass it's proponents and display a remarkable lack of appreciation for Jesus' masterful response to the accusers of his day. "“Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand." Matt 12:25 (Consider the context).

Gone Fishing,

 

You claim my comment "Watchtower agreeing with demon inspired teachings" is a “false accusation”, but then you contradict yourself by saying “Greber's rendering is perfectly acceptable…demon inspired individuals can pronounce God's truths”.

 

That is a contradiction sir and no wonder, just like the Watchtower, that warned its readers about Greber demon inspired NT, then goes and quotes it for support.

 

Despite knowing full well that Greber was a occultist, the Watchtower Society continually cited Greber as an authority in support for their own false teachings.

 

And in the end the Society lied outright by claiming that they were unaware of Greber’s occult association. <><

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Cos said:

Greber's rendering is perfectly acceptable…demon inspired individuals can pronounce God's truths”...That is a contradiction sir......

There is a danger of drawing a false conclusion from your statement here. Greber's rendering of John 1:1 is not true because it is demon-inspired. It is true because it is true. That is what the Watchtower agrees with.

Satan himself quoted accurately from scripture, yet this does not detract from the truthfulness of those texts. (Luke 4:10-11). Luke was not supporting Satan by including his words in the sacred text.

Caiaphas, the High priest,  prophesied correctly in connection with Jesus death. (John 11:49-50) Although  he was one of the "offspring of vipers" (Matt.23:33) and from his "father the Devil" (John 8:44), this did not effect the truthfulnes of his utterance. The apostle John's inclusion and explanation of this man's utterance did not indicate a support for him and his wicked master. 

So there is no contradiction ...sir.

However, there is a further danger that these words of Jesus could apply to your argument if you omit to check the reasoning carefully before pressing "Submit Reply":

"Jesus said to them: “You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God" Matt 22:29 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:32 PM, Gone Fishing said:

There is a danger of drawing a false conclusion from your statement here. Greber's rendering of John 1:1 is not true because it is demon-inspired. It is true because it is true. That is what the Watchtower agrees with.

Satan himself quoted accurately from scripture, yet this does not detract from the truthfulness of those texts. (Luke 4:10-11). Luke was not supporting Satan by including his words in the sacred text.

Caiaphas, the High priest,  prophesied correctly in connection with Jesus death. (John 11:49-50) Although  he was one of the "offspring of vipers" (Matt.23:33) and from his "father the Devil" (John 8:44), this did not effect the truthfulnes of his utterance. The apostle John's inclusion and explanation of this man's utterance did not indicate a support for him and his wicked master. 

So there is no contradiction ...sir.

However, there is a further danger that these words of Jesus could apply to your argument if you omit to check the reasoning carefully before pressing "Submit Reply":

"Jesus said to them: “You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God" Matt 22:29 

Gone fishing

 

The fact that the Watchtower lied about not knowing of Greber’s occultism should worry you…what other lies are they telling you…?

 

I showed you your contradiction. You called what I said about the Watchtower agreeing with demon inspired teachings a “false accusation”, but then you go on to support that they did agree with Greber.

 

Look, if you want I can show how the Watchtower teachings, which are in line with demon teachings, are false. Let me know and we can look at them closely.

 

Sure the Devil can quote Scripture, I never said he can’t, but he distorts what he quotes and falsely applies it, read it for yourself.<><   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By Bible Speaks
      17 "And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."
      (Revelation 22:17) NWT
      jw.org
      IMG_4542.MP4

  • Forum Statistics

    62,102
    Total Topics
    116,924
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    16,537
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    Returns
    Newest Member
    Returns
    Joined




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.