The Holy Spirit

[Jesus.defender]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Jesus.defender Everything you have said, has already been confuted, addressed, explained, reinforced, and placed with bibical facts and solidified information that cannot be broken by falsehood. The thing is, this discussion has little to do with the Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses, it is more Trinitarian false ideas and theology being corrected with what the bible really says, for you can use all the WT information you want, it is nothing more than throwing snowballs into a roaring furnace, 0% chance of success to put out a fire that represents truth and nothing but. If you want to defend his claims, you surely could do a better job than that, but clearly, you have not proven anything.

Other than that, you've proven yourself to be as equally misguided as the Trinitarian, Bob the Builder (I have confronted and corrected him, IRL before).

 

??? Not this one ???

 

??? This one ???

 

Therefore, your lack of faith in what the Bible says, is very disturbing.

Ok, God bless you.

[Space Merchant]

@Jesus.defender Perhaps next time, actually read something before you you make comment, and make sure you are honest about it. And may God help you open your eyes, should you choose to accept it.

[Cos]

The common response to the many passages that show that the Holy Spirit is a Person is the claim that these passages are only personifications. But how do the proponents of this view know these passages are personification?

 

Only because they have already assumed the Holy Spirit is an impersonal thing. (In the same way that the Unitarian group known as the Christadelpians have assumed that the Devil is not a person.)

 

This is what is called circular reasoning.  These proponents need to show that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal thing before they can even begin talking about supposed personifications. But this they cannot do.

 

In fact there are so many passages that just can’t be explained away as personifications. The simple fact that the Spirit speaks with and communicates directly with individuals is a case in point. Here is one of many;

 

“While Peter was still thinking seriously about the vision, the Spirit said to him, ‘Look! Three men are looking for you. But get up, go down, and accompany them without hesitation, because I have sent them’” (Acts 10:19-20).

 

If the Holy Spirit were truly not a person, why would He be spoken of with personification? One must wonder at this point what the authors of scripture were trying to graphically illustrate by referring to the Holy Spirit as a Person. <><

[Space Merchant]

@Cos Such has already been addressed, and clearly the group you repeat again here, again, is a Millenarian Christian group who hold a view of Biblical Unitarianism, in fact, this has been address before, but since you like to ignore things, I will repost exactly where you have been corrected on such.

and I quote: (May 22) Christatadelphains are a Millenarian Christian group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenarianism) who hold a view of Biblical Unitarianism. The funny thing is, I told you before the difference in every Unitarian group, so this shot taken towards me is very weak, in addition to that I address before that not all Unitarians are the same, nor do all of them agree with each other, but it is no surprise a Trinitarian such as yourself will go to this length, very laughable too.?

 

Everything else has already been addressed before, hence what the Spirit is often described as. Like I said before also, not wise to be using Paul when he made a clear affirmation in his epistles.

[Cos]

Some THINK that they “address” what is said but they don’t, instead they go on long and incoherent tirade’s which make no sense, and don’t “address” what is stated…they only imagine they do.

 

So what if various Unitarians have varied teachings…so what? The point I made about Christadelpians is valid, but this fact is skirted and then, what they teach, is imagined as being “addressed”, a totally preposterous claim.  This example typifies the imagined “already been addressed” response that is being repeatedly employed. <><

[Space Merchant]

12 hours ago, Cos said:

Some THINK that they “address” what is said but they don’t, instead they go on long and incoherent tirade’s which make no sense, and don’t “address” what is stated…they only imagine they do.

This is why I have stated before, biblical hermeneutics is key to study, research and understanding, to learn and take in knowledge of who God is and his purpose and will means, who is his Son and how does the Holy Spirit play a role to the Son and to anyone it has been bestowed upon.And no, these are not tirade's as you claim for it is deep understanding of the truth, example, John 14 and 16, as to what has been address, you learned something, you didn't even know about gender forms until I brought it up, yet you remain oblivious to this fact and repeat yourself like a broken record. As it was said by many, a day will come when people will realize what the mainstream Christians of today's Christendom have been teaching what is deemed incorrect, luckily, Textual Criticism, as with hermeneutics and several other things to bring forth the truth of scripture to life. It is very evident, like pages before, you will repeat yourself time and time again, at this point to what you will repeat, an answer to such will be reposted here via link, you have no foundation here. And I believe I have addressed everything regarding what the Holy Spirit is and what it is described as, with biblical verses as proof also, and as of yet this so called personhood or Godhood of this make believe doctrine regarding the Holy Spirit is nowhere to be found, nor does it know the day or the hour, and it has not manifested into a being or a person or physically convinced a child, as to what you Trinitarians tend to believe, for truth will always be truth, falsehood will always be falsehood, and those who speak truth always defend it.

Jesus wants his followers to teach and adhere to the truth, unlike you, I have been to areas that people want a full explanation to this, that or why this is, etc. Those who are students are always eager to learn, like children, the very example of which Jesus himself made clear of when he used children as an example when it comes to learning about God's Kingdom, as well as the truth - the very truth of which the mainstream cannot accept.

12 hours ago, Cos said:

So what if various Unitarians have varied teachings…so what? The point I made about Christadelpians is valid, but this fact is skirted and then, what they teach, is imagined as being “addressed”, a totally preposterous claim.  This example typifies the imagined “already been addressed” response that is being repeatedly employed. <><

Unfortunately you have to care, for there are those who tech very differently and far form the truth than others. Such a faith derive from Millenarianism, they hold a view of Biblical Unitarianism, which is indeed true. The irony is, your biggest problem is such ones do not really hold a view of Jesus' pre-existence, but I do, hence why I stated denominational as well as non-denominational Unitarians tend to agree/disagree with each other, for Buzzard will not agree with my view of Jesus' pre-existence and I do not agree with his view that Jesus didn't pre-existed. Other than that, despite such ones of that I even refute, I do not remain ignorant of their views.

Christadelpians belief on Satan The Devil: Christadelphians believe that the Satan or Devil is not an independent spiritual being or fallen angel. Devil is viewed as the general principle of evil and inclination to sin which resides in humankind. They are convinced that, dependent on the context, the term Satan in Hebrew merely means "opponent" or "adversary" and is frequently applied to human beings. Accordingly, they do not define hell as a place of eternal torment for sinners, but as a state of eternal death respectively non-existence due to annihilation of body and mind.

Christadelpians belief on Pre-exustence: The Christadelphian denial of the pre-existence of Christ.

The list goes on, but anyone who studies religion will know the views of a Millenarian Christian (clearly not even a Unitarian group, as you claim), any man who knows the Christology knows who they are and their beliefs, it is not mystery nor is it a secret. It is also safe to mention here also that Millenarians are fore Traditions of Men. It is not hard to know of their Christology, but clearly, you cannot compare them to those who believe that the Devil is a Spirit Being that once held a position in Heaven, and or those who believe that Jesus had pre-existed before he was on earth or even given the name Jesus, so that is where your fault remains in, but it is no surprise of the James Whiting that is being done here.

Clearly it is known even before the Devil became Satan, he was among the Spirit Beings/Persons who were in heaven until he rebelled, thus becoming God's adversary, becoming the Devil, named Satan for Satan means accuser or adversary (as well as resister), as for Devil, meaning slanderer, being called that because he is the Chef and foremost slander and false accuser aka The Father of Lies. Satan eventually had his influence on some of the angels, thus they became demons, and Satan is the ruler of these wicked spirits, in addition to those who disobeyed God, an example would be how several angels had fancied women on earth, had sexual relations with said women and bore children, the Nephilim, that would later proven themselves to be violent and brutal towards others in such a violent time. Clearly demons can be cut off from having access to God's dwelling place, that is, Heaven, and eventually Satan himself was cast out and he was hurled (banished) out of Heaven like that of falling lighting out of the sky.

Clearly my views pertaining to scripture it is very evident and trying to equal me to that of a millenarian is a poor attempt and very silly, despite the fact that months before you already know of my applications of what the bible says and what it teaches when the dishonesty being spouted had been exposed in said topic. The very reason it is important to care because such things like this will push one to view the Devil as a mere threat, the Devil, an adversary of God is no mere threat for he can cause any imperfect man to stumble, be it the man does not know it or not, for being alone or doing knowing is a sin right there and it leaves one exposed to the Devil's attacks and the welcome of his demons, such we have to be very careful about, this goes for the falsehood that is of the mainstream, for the Devil cannot triumph over those who profess what is true and strive to do what is true. For anything that is liked, it is expected for him and his demons to show and during that time, we will have to be ready for it, for Jesus is a fine example, for when the Devil had tempted him, Jesus prevailed, when the Devil succeeded in getting Jesus killed, he has still failed for God has resurrected Jesus, for when the Devil goes after the church, followers of Jesus prevailed, ones like Paul, who removed those who defiled the church, namely Hymenaeus and Alexander, when the Devil pushes false truths, those who take the scripture with utmost seriousness, will defend it, when the Devil prevents those in countries to not know who God is or never seen a bible in their life, God, who wants to make his Word made known, enables such ones to learn about the truth of the Bible.

 

That being said, those who claim the Holy Spirit is a Person are only of the Trinitarian Camp, and only them, but truth shows us as to what the Holy Spirit actually is and what it can do when it is poured out.

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/24/2018 at 12:57 PM, Cos said:

The common response to the many passages that show that the Holy Spirit is a Person is the claim that these passages are only personifications. But how do the proponents of this view know these passages are personification?

 

 

 

 

 

Only because they have already assumed the Holy Spirit is an impersonal thing. (In the same way that the Unitarian group known as the Christadelpians have assumed that the Devil is not a person.)

 

 

 

 

 

This is what is called circular reasoning.  These proponents need to show that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal thing before they can even begin talking about supposed personifications. But this they cannot do.

 

 

 

 

 

In fact there are so many passages that just can’t be explained away as personifications. The simple fact that the Spirit speaks with and communicates directly with individuals is a case in point. Here is one of many;

 

 

 

 

 

“While Peter was still thinking seriously about the vision, the Spirit said to him, ‘Look! Three men are looking for you. But get up, go down, and accompany them without hesitation, because I have sent them’” (Acts 10:19-20).

 

 

 

 

 

If the Holy Spirit were truly not a person, why would He be spoken of with personification? One must wonder at this point what the authors of scripture were trying to graphically illustrate by referring to the Holy Spirit as a Person. <><

 

 

Exactly.

 

A "impersonal force" does NOT identify itself as an individual! "Separate Saul and Barnabas to ME" .

 

When i showed that passage and "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God." which identifies the Holy Ghost as God the JW elder stopped visiting me! I hope he got born again.

[Space Merchant]

@Jesus.defender You do realize it has come to the point it is not about JWs anymore, for it is solely on the truth about the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is as what I had already described pages ago, nothing of such cannot be deemed wrong.

[Cos]

The argument, in the face of the multitude of Scriptural evidence which declare that the Holy Spirit is a person, is that these are mere personifications. It has been shown here that there are many reasons for why this personification idea is scripturally irrational.

 

Because the word translated “spirit” (pneuma, πνεῦμα) is also very often and naturally referring to persons in Scripture then only an inept author would attribute personhood to the Holy Spirit without being clear that personhood was not meant to be literally ascribed.  

 

Therefore those who argue for personification do so solely on their theological perspective without any Scriptural backing! <><

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Casper would be pleased at your logic, Cos.

[Space Merchant]

@Cos I believe what you have addressed has been said before, and a response has already been made. It seems we are taking laps around the track field, in this sense.

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, Cos said:

only an inept author would attribute personhood to the Holy Spirit without being clear that personhood was not meant to be literally ascribed.

There is, of course, one spirit in the Bible seeking equality with God............ some of his assistants assumed ineptitude of Bible authorship by seeking to add text to Scripture to clarify their doctorine. So this is nothing new.