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@James Thomas Rook Jr. Apparently Trinitarians within mainstream Christendom apply the slogan of Burger King when it comes to their confusing Christology, "Have it Your Way" and it would seem they are having it their way when it comes to scripture.

The thing is here, what the Bible says, what the early Church had taught and practice, which includes the abilities of which Jesus entrusted the Church, being used by Church leaders who adhere to it, the application of scripture in regards to lifestyle, morals, cleanliness, etc. - We should take such in seriousness for such is scriptural.

We should not be adding on something outlandish, but rather take in what is already there, even though we are learning over time, an example would be one reading the Bible to eventually find out God has a Son who is only-begotten when before the reader didn't know about the only-begotten Son of God. But we have the silliness of some today that say God is Jesus or that God approves of guns, these false practices and heresies the mainstream adheres to, as well as a list of other things, in this regard, The Holy Spirit, hence the topic.

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Cos: What you have stated is OPINION.  You have proved NOTHING, except that you can type. Both God and Christ have a personal name ... what is the Holy Spirit's name .... Casper? If so, it must be a FRIENDLY spirit. YEAH, that's the ticket! ( ... for those in Rio Linda that was intended to be biting sarcasm .... because the Holy Spirit does NOT have a personal name ... and God and Christ do! ) note:  ... descriptions do not count as personal names, no more than a wa

Claims of irrationality have always been levelled against witnesses who have experienced Gods great gift. "And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler" Acts 5:29. Compare: " “He has gone out of his mind." "Mark 5:21                    " “You are going out of your mind, Paul!" " Acts 26:24  If you believe that Jesus would have followed the superstitious and insulting pattern set by religious leaders in Israel

The quote referenced above reads: "In the Bible, God’s holy spirit is identified as God’s power in action. Hence, an accurate translation of the Bible’s Hebrew text refers to God’s spirit as “God’s active force.” (Genesis 1:2) This concept is well supported throughout the Bible.—Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35;Acts 10:38." Unfortunately, the inadequate and  bludgeoning reference to this quote in the opening remarks of the argument above displays a level of competency that calls into question the entir

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Looking at the latest series of post, one prevailing view, which one person was so adamant about that he felt the need to end his comments with the word “PERIOD” as if that makes what he says more prominent?

 

When scoffers challenge the Deity of Christ they complain that Christ died on the cross, so that proves that He isn’t God. Of course, these objectors usually introduce a problem of their own, defining death as annihilation. They believe that when someone dies, they cease to exist.

 

What does the Bible teach that death is? It is not annihilation; it is separation.

 

When Christ died, He did not cease existing. His body went into the grave, and His soul went into the compartment of departed spirits (compare Luke 16:19-31; Sheol (or Hades) contained two compartments, one of these was known as Abraham’s Bosom or paradise, the abode of the faithful dead, the other being tartarus for the wicked).

 

Remember also how He told the repentant thief, "Today you shall be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus promised the repentant thief that he would be in this place, the place where the faithful dead go. Scripture also tells us that when Christ ascended to heaven He took with Him the compartment of sheol where the faithful dead stayed in wait (Eph 4:8-9). 

 

Death is a separation. It is a separation of the body from the spirit. It is a separation from this world to the next. A point that emphasizes this very truth is that Jesus claimed that He will raise Himself when the three days were up (John 2:19-22).

 

Also it is interesting to note that the Scriptures says that believers won’t die (John 6:50), but we all know that they still do. If Habakkuk 1:12 did read, “you do not die” it is clearly an idiom saying, you God are immortal and will exist forever. <><

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On 7/8/2018 at 3:29 AM, Cos said:

Frankly I have no problem with using the divine name in Scripture, but this is all about adding what does not have manuscript support.

But presumably adding what does have manuscript support is acceptable? The omission of God's name from the Hebrew Scriptures is a travesty not a translation. The pusilanimous argument that it was not contained in the Ist Century Greek Scriptures has no merit. There were some attempts to justify this by suggesting it's ommission from the Septuagint meant that even quotes made by Jesus or other Scripture writers from this translation would not include the Divine Name. But this pathetic justification falls at the first hurdle in that manuscript support for Ist Century inclusion of the Tetragrammaton is clearly extant.

Nash papyrus BCE.jpg

Nash papyrus.1st Cent BCE (Septuagint) De. 18:16 includes Tetragrammaton

Codex Alexandrinus CE.jpg

Codea Alexandrinus 5th Century CE (Septuagint) De. 18:16 Clear substitution of KY (Abbreviation for kyrios - Lord)

Modern Sept.jpg

Modern Interlinear with Strongs References. (Septuagint) De. 18:16  Clearly follows late substitution of kyrios, Lord.

So the Divine name was Scripturally available in the Ist Century to Jesus and Christian Greek Scripture writers. It is unthinkable that they would follow Jewish superstition and tradition in ommitting it's use, at least in their specific quotations from the Septaugint translation. It is even more improbable that Jehovah, by means of Holy Spirt, would somehow "forget" or ommit to include His own glorous name in His own inspired writings.

Frankly I have no problem with using the divine name in Scripture, or in restoring it to it's proper place in the Greek Scriptures, with manuscript support as far as possible, trusting in Jehovah's guidance where there is not, yet. (Compare the Dead Sea Scroll impact on the saga regarding the restoring of  God's Name to the Hebrew Scriptures). And this despite the determined and resolute attempts of apostate religionists to obliterate God's own name from His own message of salvation to mankind.

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7 hours ago, Cos said:

When Christ died, He did not cease existing.

This is either a grave mistake or  a denial of Christ's ransom sacrifice. This is dangerous ground in either respect but, respectfully, I will leave the determination of which to someone better qualified.

I am departing from this particular discussion.

?

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15 hours ago, Cos said:

Looking at the latest series of post, one prevailing view, which one person was so adamant about that he felt the need to end his comments with the word “PERIOD” as if that makes what he says more prominent?

We are going by what the Bible says and a total respect to the language, that is why what was said before is true, mainly in regards to John 14 and 16 as to where your Greek was called into question and the very fact that even your own source proved you wrong.

15 hours ago, Cos said:

When scoffers challenge the Deity of Christ they complain that Christ died on the cross, so that proves that He isn’t God. Of course, these objectors usually introduce a problem of their own, defining death as annihilation. They believe that when someone dies, they cease to exist.

Jesus is not God for many different reasons, but he is a god/a godlike ones according to the Law of the Jews, even Jesus brought that up in John chapter 10, and later on, Apostle Paul also brought it up, both quoting not just the law, but what God had said about his sons in Heaven and on Earth, for these god/godlike ones are not only of Spirit Beings, but of us humans as well, hence the Judges of Israel, etc. Jesus was in the right to speak of the law against Jews that were blinded by Satan.

Death is ceasing to exist, if you want annihilation, if it is ever so obvious, those of mankind only die once and cease, to dust they came to dust they return, conscious of nothingness, to some a void of darkness, a cease of activity, etc. One is destroyed for good upon the Second Death, in a sense, like permanently deleting a file from your computer, therefore, gone for good as if it never existed.

And God terminates the wicked, he does not watch them suffering in agony day in and day out, if that was the case, you paint God as something entirely different and ignore of how he FELT as to what the people were doing to their sons and daughters, God stated stuff like that would never cross his mind.

On to the next point, God cannot die he is the literal life-giving force the same one who gave life to Jesus after he was crucified. God is a God to you, me and all of those in life, as well as those who had perished and chained up in the pangs of death, Death itself is the last enemy of which God will deal with once his purpose and will has been accomplished. Moreover, God is not like us men, according to Job, and in various passages in the Hebrew Old Testament, God is not a man nor is he a son of man, God's primary nature is incorruptibility, in plain English incorruptibility means Immortality, one who is unable to succumb to and or taste death at all

In the Dictionary incorruptibility means not subject to death and or decay, for one is everlasting. Immortality means living forever, eternal life, therefore, God cannot taste death regardless of what you say and or think, however Jesus can because Jesus came to represent his Father as a man, flesh, roam among the people and the like, preached the good news gospel until he was killed, and him being a man, Jesus was corruptible/moral, both words meaning the state of being subject to death can be corrupted, in this case, to dying.

And one of the most evident things is this man, Jesus, cried out to God, and later on, we see in Acts, and or anything that Paul had written, that God raised Jesus out of the pangs of death, and eventually, Jesus ascended to his Father after giving instruction to his disciples and the reward that is to come from the Father, this reward, The Holy Spirit, last I recall, I told you to read Acts 1 and 2 and you ignored those chapters.

15 hours ago, Cos said:

What does the Bible teach that death is? It is not annihilation; it is separation.

Death is ceasing to exist, to perish be conscious of nothing. Some fear it greatly, some do not shed fear of it but deep down inside they do, others do not care if they die but they worry about friends and family around them, some choose death as a noble sacrifice and or for a radicalized false reason, others accept it knowing they protect something or someone and or maintain a faith in something knowing that even if they die, God knows of their actions.

Death becomes, in a sense, like annihilation when you are dead for good, ceasing totally with no chance of eternal life, therefore, in a sense, you are deleted from this world like a computer file, once it is gone, it is gone for good.

God gives life, eternal life, to those worthy of it, to those righteous, to those meek, to those that truly attempt to seek him, but keep running into obstacles, etc.

To say it is a separation it is as though you believe in the Afterlife, for it is common for Trinitarians to believe this, but what they forget is the very fact that Jesus is the first of the fruits and was the only one to had risen to Heaven and eventually those chosen will follow and only them.

15 hours ago, Cos said:

When Christ died, He did not cease existing. His body went into the grave, and His soul went into the compartment of departed spirits (compare Luke 16:19-31; Sheol (or Hades) contained two compartments, one of these was known as Abraham’s Bosom or paradise, the abode of the faithful dead, the other being tartarus for the wicked).

You do realize that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable - right? In fact, verses 1-10 in this chapter is also a parable, The Parable of the Dishonest Manager, the other being verses 19-31, The Rich Man and Lazarus. Other than that, Sheol, also known as Hades, is known as the grave to some, to others they simply see it as buried in Sheol or taken [down] to Sheol, but in most translations they refer to both Sheol and Hades as Hell, to add further confusion, Gehenna, in some translations is also refereed to as Hell, hence why people confused the two, for you cannot throw the lake of fire into the lake of fire.

In these parables, Jesus was teaching a very important lesson and about the things to come by means of these parables.

As for Jesus, if we are referring to 1 Peter 3:19, it points to both 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6. It also should be evident of what those Spirits are, and they are not deceased humans as you believe, if anyone is honest, they would understand that these so called Spirits are the wicked ones, of whom are reserved for judgement, the demons, those who have rebelled against God.

Moreover, Jesus did Jesus preach to these spirits in prison, for Peter wrote that this occurred after Jesus only after Jesus was made alive in the Spirit, we see this clearly in 1 Peter 3:18, 19, adding up to verse 22 for this point:

(18) For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, (19) in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, (20) because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. (21) Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (22) who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

When Peter mentioned that Jesus' proclamation and or that he preached, it is obvious that Peter was using past tense, which suggests that such an event in regards to preaching took place before Peter wrote his very first Epistle (letter). Sometime after Jesus' resurrection, Jesus made a proclamation to the wicked spirits, the demons that rebelled, regarding the fully justified punishment they are due to receive on the day of God's judgement. This wasn't a preaching herald good hope, but something of which they will get what is coming to them when God enacts judgement on such Spirits, therefore, it was a preaching and or proclamation of judgment, this is very similar to the actions of Jonah, of whom God had sent to Nineveh, see Jonah 1:1, 2. it is done in similar fashion in regards to the Jesus to the demons.

Jonah Flees the Presence of the Lord

  • (1) Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, (2) “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and call out against it, for their evil has come up before me.”

Furthermore, Jesus had demonstrated his faith and loyalty to the day of his death, well into the day of his resurrection, for he had proved that Satan the Devil indeed had no hold on him, thus being victorious over the Great Serpent, in addition, Jesus had the basis for making such a a great proclamation, again, this can be seen in the chapters mention before, John 14 and 16, more specific 30 in 14 and 8-11 in 16. Soon, Jesus will bind up and then cast Satan the Devil into the the abyss along with the fallen ones that follow him, see Luke 8:30, 31 and Revelations 20:1-3. Until that time comes, these Spirits, the fallen ones who had rebelled, called Demons who are in rebellion against God, are in a condition vast spiritual darkness, and what is to come for them in regards to their final destruction is very, very certain and the day is slowly coming to when judgement will be executed.

16 hours ago, Cos said:

Remember also how He told the repentant thief, "Today you shall be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus promised the repentant thief that he would be in this place, the place where the faithful dead go. Scripture also tells us that when Christ ascended to heaven He took with Him the compartment of sheol where the faithful dead stayed in wait (Eph 4:8-9). 

Jesus did say that to the thief, but those in death do not go to some afterlife, otherwise that would defeat the very purpose of what Jesus says about himself and or the very fact he is the firstborn out of death, let alone being the first of the fruits, I mean, the cross-references to Luke 23:43 actually tells you that. Taking the words of Isaiah, like him, those in death with rise and sing praise to God and his chosen one. As for Ephesians 4:8-9 these captives are the ones of whom cares for the Church, that is the Christ, the chapter even tells you a couple of verses onward, they were not literally taken up on the day Jesus ascended, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of Jesus' own words about him being the only one to ascended (John 3:13) prior to those chosen, which began in Pentecost.

No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

At Pentecost 33 C.E., the ascended Jesus, as God’s chosen one, the man who was a representative of God, began breaking down the house of Satan by carrying out those among the captive — the men who had long been in slavery the likes of sin and death and under Satan’s power and control. These captives became Christ’s slaves/servants without hesitation, doing the will of God with your whole soul. Jesus saved them from Satan’s control and, on Gods behalf, gave them to the Church as gifts in men and clearly this did not sit well with the Devil due to his control that has been tampered with and or broken, for no one can hold these captives and we have the Lord from God who saved such ones.

This is why we see this very fact seen in Ephesians 4:11

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,

This is also quoted in the Hebrew Old Testament, Psalms 68:18

You ascended on high, leading a host of captives in your train and receiving gifts among men, even among the rebellious, that the Lord God may dwell there.

h

16 hours ago, Cos said:

Also it is interesting to note that the Scriptures says that believers won’t die (John 6:50), but we all know that they still do. If Habakkuk 1:12 did read, “you do not die” it is clearly an idiom saying, you God are immortal and will exist forever. <><

Of course, God is immortal, as well as incorruptible, he cannot die, he is the life-giver, the God of both the living and the dead, and God himself can give life and does so by means of his Son, Jesus, in the future, he will grant life in a grander scale to those he remembers, to those who are in the book of life.

You fail to understand the passage from John 6:50. You really have to understand, and but into context what John 6:48-51 is showing, in not doing so, you make a response not even the most well educated Trinitarian would make, therefore, shows you are seeing this verse with a man's understanding.

When Jesus spoke about living forever and not dying, he was not referring that those who were listening to what he had to say would never experience the first death being the human death of which we experience from the age of Adam and Eve's disobedience to now. The  point Jesus was making was that having faith in him could lead to living forever, eternal life. This is why in this instance, Jesus called himself the bread of life. He continues to say something along the lines of that this bread of which he speaks, is the bread that has come down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die, he continues to make it known that He, Jesus, is the living bread that came down from heaven, if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever -  eternal life.

Any man would think that this concludes that Jesus was saying that they could avoid the experience of death, which is understandable, but again, one has to read and apply context to see what the passages really is saying, examining the evidence, if you will. The context itself pretty much is what I had already said. Jesus had just said this is the will of him that sent me, we know God sent Jesus, furthermore, that I should lose nothing out of all that he has given me but that I should resurrect it at the last day, etc. Those, every man that beholds the God's Son and exercises faith in him should have eternal life, and He will resurrect him at the last day. No man can come to Him unless the Father, who sent him, draws him; and He will resurrect him in the last day, see John 6:39-44. Jesus said later on that he that feeds on his flesh and drinks his blood has eternal life, and he shall resurrect him at the last day, see John 6:54. Hence, Jesus’ promise of living forever can be understood, should you accept it, Jesus would not be saying to the listeners that they would never experience death, that would be silly because even today man can and will eventually die, they fear death, but rather, Jesus was conveying the message to show us that there is indeed a way we have this bread, this wine, in turn, gain eternal life.

As for God, he can't die, you make want to check out 1 Timothy 1:17 (also Romans 1:23) also, as with all cross-references that speak of God's nature of incorruptibility/immortality. To say and or believe God can die, then you really do not believe THWH is God thus giving people the reason to think of the All-Powerful having flaws and or weak, like kryptonite to superman, you throw the green rock at him and he is not so powerful after that not to mention falling out of the sky like rain drop, but this is God we are talking about, the El Shaddai, he is All-Powerful and Great, nothing can weaken him nor can he weaken himself, for as Jesus puts it, God is good, and that God is greater than him, the very reason why you have many, even Satan grinding their teeth right now because they know what God is capable of doing, especially to them, erasing them from reality, if you will.

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There is no mistake; Christ did not cease to exist when He was executed on the cross. The “ransom sacrifice” as some like to call it was by the shedding of His blood. The idea that death means you cease to exist is another clear example of how some will read into Scripture what has no biblical support.

 

 

 

Just as when they say the Holy Spirit is not a Person but a “power” with no biblical support. And then regardless of any rationality will claim that all the many times the Scriptures demonstrate the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, they say that these are personifications.

 

 

 

Some as usual go into a long incoherent tirade and avoid (play down) what Jesus says to maintain a false idea that is read into the Scriptures, and then they will later go on to claim that that “has already been addressed”. <><

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On 7/13/2018 at 10:50 PM, Cos said:

There is no mistake; Christ did not cease to exist when He was executed on the cross. The “ransom sacrifice” as some like to call it was by the shedding of His blood. The idea that death means you cease to exist is another clear example of how some will read into Scripture what has no biblical support.

The Christ did cease, to put it simple, him being corruptible had tasted death like any other man, but him being sinless opens a door that a born sinner could not, that being said, mainly if you understand what him being the Firstborn out of the Dead even means, if Christ did not cease, him, being the temple and or foundation, that would defeat the purpose of why he is called as such in the Bible itself. Indeed, some call it as such, they also refer to this a sacrifice, and or substitutionary atonement, so basically it is somewhat of a ransom, if you understand the context leading up to and of Jesus' death, then in turn, his resurrection. So technically speaking, all of those of mankind, those, well all, considered to have inherited sin and death as a result of Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden via disobedience, God's law requires that only the sacrificial death of a perfect, sinless human can atone the Adamic sin, in addition, faith in the ransom of Christ Jesus, known as The Last Adam (Second Adam) is regarded as the only way to atone for sin and escape death, even opens doors to forgiveness of sin and the like, as well as the New Covenant.

Other than that, death is a cease of all activity, for death itself is the obvious opposite of life. When you die, you die, to dust you cometh, to dust you returnth, and in death you have no sort of function and or consciousness whatsoever - hence the term, Pangs of Death.

God took Jesus out of the pangs of death by means of loosening it's grip on His Son, thus resurrecting the Lord himself - Risen Christ (Acts 2:24).

On 7/13/2018 at 10:50 PM, Cos said:

Just as when they say the Holy Spirit is not a Person but a “power” with no biblical support. And then regardless of any rationality will claim that all the many times the Scriptures demonstrate the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, they say that these are personifications.

There is biblical support, and it has been said a number of times, pages back, as well as full description of what it is. The nail to this personhood of the Holy Spirit is what Stephen had mentioned, that alone debunks the idea of the Holy Spirit being a Person, let alone, God. Other than that is is rather silly to make the claim in regards to 14 and 16 of John when one can easily understand the Greek Language Forms, and it is absurd to use Paul and others as examples when testimony and affirmation is as clear as day in this regard.

Therefore, the correction has been made.

On 7/13/2018 at 10:50 PM, Cos said:

Some as usual go into a long incoherent tirade and avoid (play down) what Jesus says to maintain a false idea that is read into the Scriptures, and then they will later go on to claim that that “has already been addressed”. <><

Think of it as you like, the information is both fact and true, after all, it was on your part such long detailed information was posed in such discussions to begin with. Jesus did indeed say to read into the scriptures, and he asks of us to believe in the one who has sent him, never has Jesus made the claim he is his Father and or something accursed, for it is known to everyone in this day and age of who Jesus is, and who is his Father.

That being said, the information in full detail it so show even to the guests who come here what is truth and what is not truth, with included Greek sources of Language forms of which you had made the choice to ignore and repeat yourself like a busted record, but it is true as to what they say, the truth hurts, and the truth is not for everyone, therefore, expect an actual detailed based source on the Holy Spirit in the coming weeks.

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Jesus died on the cross but that does not mean He ceased to exist. The idea that at death Jesus ceased to exist has no scriptural backing, it must be read into the meaning of what death is.

 

Take for example on how some read Eccl 9:5, 10 and falsely concluding that the dead are conscious of nothing. Yet here Solomon was stating the way things appear “under the sun”, that is, from the human perspective alone (see Eccl. 1:2-3, 18).

 

Now the claim that “support” has been “supplied” for the idea that the Holy Spirit is a power is rather lacking. Nowhere in Scripture does it say “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God”. Nowhere!

 

The only passages that have been allegedly “supplied”, to date, are those passages where that idea must be read into them. None actually say what is claim. Search through the Scriptures and nowhere is this idea forthcoming, nowhere.

 

So to establish my point, show where in Scriptures it says “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God”?

 

In fact there are a number of passages that show how absurd this idea actually is, Acts 10:38 for example, which would read “anointing with power and power”. <><

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5 hours ago, Cos said:

Jesus died on the cross but that does not mean He ceased to exist. The idea that at death Jesus ceased to exist has no scriptural backing, it must be read into the meaning of what death is.

Jesus did die, if you have forgotten, Jesus was a man, thus being corruptible,

  • Luke 23:46 - Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

Moreover, Jesus spoke of his death, being killed and the fact he will raise up again, resurrection (Luke 9:22–27) even foretold it, again in other passages, even when troubled, knowing the day is upon him only for God to comfort him (John 12:27), the reason as to why Jesus is said, several times, to be the Firstborn out of the Dead (Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Revelations 1:5, Romans 8:29 , Hebrews 11:28, 12:23) and Jesus himself made mention of this position about him being the Living one who has died and had risen, also him having the keys to Hades (Revelation 1:18), to say otherwise is teaching something accursed that even your own Trinitarian brothers would not dare to say. Be it you believe he died on a cross, a tree or a stake, what is there is a man, who cried out to his Father, and died, for as for all who have died, even Jesus himself, go to Hades (according to Jews, buried in Sheol). Jesus' cries in pain and suffering was foretold, see Psalms 22:1, which points back to what he had said prior to his death while suffering. We also see such in description of God being the one taking Jesus out of death as seen in Hebrews 5:7,and if we are to follow what Paul has said, he has made this clear in nearly all of which he had written, mainly in Acts.

What death is, is a state of no function, the opposite of life, that of which is corruptible, life/flesh, is subjected to succumb to death itself.

And actually the Bible makes it clear, for 3 days, Jesus himself slept in Hades and on the final day, he had risen. There is a reason why the belief in life and the resurrection is indeed a thing regarding the Christ,for he had conquered death, thus being the first of the fruits, firstborn out of the dead, hence his state when he had been raised and eventually ascended back to heaven.

We also have to remember that Jesus died so that humans could have their sins forgiven and receive eternal life. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 1:7) Jesus’ death also proved that a human can remain loyal to God the Father even when faced with many forms of trials putting them to the test (Hebrews 4:15).

Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins. (Colossians 1:14). He died so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (John 3:16). the Christ became obedient to the point of death, thus proving that a human could be faithful to God the Father under any test or trial. (Philippians 2:8).

We also have to not forget that Death at the hands of Roman torturers and executioners was certain and could come from several causes. Jesus had been beaten repeatedly and lashed with a Roman scourge before His crucifixion (Matthew 27:26). The leather scourge, a type of whip, was designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain and damage possible on to the victim, which in this case, had been inflicted upon Jesus. It was also braided with bone and metal pieces woven into the ends that tore into the flesh with each stroke, its as painful as it gets. The scourge would rip into the underlying muscles and produce strips of quivering, bleeding flesh.

Church Father Eusebius, reported that the sufferer’s veins were laid bare, and the very muscles, sinews, and bowels of the victim were open to exposure, and it is known that many victims would die from the scourging before they could be crucified.

Extreme pain, mixed together with blood loss, would often cause the victim to go into shock, for his blood pressure would drop and cause fainting, collapse and intense thirst. In the Gospels accounts, Jesus experienced these symptoms on His way to Golgotha (Skull Rock). Weakened to the point of collapse, He couldn’t bear the weight of the device of which he is to be crucified on, of which he was carrying and a bystander, Simon (of Cyrene), was forced to carry it part of the way for Him as seen in Mark 15:21. When He was crucified, He said, I thirst , see John 19:28. He had already suffered beatings on a level of savagery before the scourging. At His trial before the Sanhedrin, they spat in His face and beat Him; and others struck Him with the palms of their hands, saying that Prophesy to us, Christ! Who is the one who struck You?, see Matthew 26:67-68. When they turned Him over to the Roman soldiers, they further brutalized Him, beating Him with their fists, slapping Him and shoving a crown of thorns on His head, see Matthew 27:29-30; Mark 15:16-19; John 19:3. The extent of this beating is indicated in the prophecy

  • Isaiah 50:6 - I gave my back to those who strike, and my cheeks to those who pull out the beard; I hid not my face from disgrace and spitting.

Another, more explicit and yet graphic prophecy:

  • Isaiah 52:14 - As many were astonished at you— his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the children of mankind—

This pretty much tells you that Jesus was badly beaten, so bloodied and maimed, that he was scarcely recognizable as a human being, for that is how bad it was, how the brutality level was through the roof in this sense.

Furthermore, his accusers had a thirst for blood (John 19:1-6). But their hatred of the bloodied man from Nazareth could only be satisfied, hence why they insisted the crucifixion.

Jesus suffered in agony, The prophecy of Christ’s suffering is seen in Psalms 22:14 and it refers to His tortured condition.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

Take for example on how some read Eccl 9:5, 10 and falsely concluding that the dead are conscious of nothing. Yet here Solomon was stating the way things appear “under the sun”, that is, from the human perspective alone (see Eccl. 1:2-3, 18).

Solomon verses connect to Psalms 39:5 and Romans 8:20. Also of what Solomon's says has nothing to do of what is spoken of about the Dead, the same can be said of what the Law itself speaks of regarding those in death. verse 18 is about an abundance of wisdom, thus connecting correctly with these 2 passages in the same book, 2:15 and 12:12, therefore, these verses have no connection with Eccl. 9:5, 10, for a passage speaks of death coming to all and no activity in Hades while the other passage, regarding what Solomon had said makes no connection to death and the grave whatsoever.

under the sun appearing in chapter 9 is related to what we do in life because when we die we cannot do things we did in life. A dead man cannot care for his child, a dead man cannot work with his hands, however, only those, under the sun, alive and roaming about the earth can do these things, but once dead and buried into Sheol, sent to Hades, you can't really do anything. Chapter 5 also makes mention of those who, under the sun, eating and drinking, enjoying the work of their hands from hard work. An expression does not really change what a passage is conveying, so the remark about Solomon is unfounded.

Regarding chapter 9, death is applied to both humans and animals, even the Law in the Torah makes mention of death and or perishing, even making claim to the fact that the law of which the people followed, they themselves knew the opposite of life itself, is death, it is not something entirely different and or a mystery, in fact, the Bible speaks of it explicitly, as well as referring to death as an enemy.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

Now the claim that “support” has been “supplied” for the idea that the Holy Spirit is a power is rather lacking. Nowhere in Scripture does it say “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God”. Nowhere!

Actually it is not lacking, it was mention several times, you simply chose to ignore it as well as the biblical description of the Holy Spirit, it being out-poured to the people, etc. Example Genesis Act of Creation (even Trinitarians know about this one so it is odd for you to ignore such), and or the fact that Jesus, having the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is able to perform the works by which the power of the Spirit enables him to do and the very fact that God the Father abides in him. Believe such was mention 3-4 times, but you just brush over it.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

The only passages that have been allegedly “supplied”, to date, are those passages where that idea must be read into them. None actually say what is claim. Search through the Scriptures and nowhere is this idea forthcoming, nowhere.

What was supplied have been mentioned several times, it is clear you are ignoring it.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

So to establish my point, show where in Scriptures it says “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God”?

Check out what was already addressed for about 4-5 times now. See below, perhaps read it this time instead of ignoring it because at this point everything you made mention of, even of Jesus' death, has been refuted, thus correcting you.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

In fact there are a number of passages that show how absurd this idea actually is, Acts 10:38 for example, which would read “anointing with power and power”. <><

Again, already been explained several times, mainly if the verse is taken into context, clearly, again, it shows you are ignoring because if you are bringing this up again, it just proves my point even further.

 

I will post the response here.... again, and pinpoint your first mention to show people here you are repeating yourself even after being corrected:

This has been answered between May 12th-13th (found under page 19 of this topic)

You made mention of this before, reading into the text without understand context, I will say it again in all caps for you - CONTEXT.

 

A copy of the response to what you seem to not understand:

Quote

Acts 10:38 has cross-references, really strong ones. Also making this response "anointing with power and power" is pretty weak, if you really knew what the Holy Spirit is capable of and what it has been used to do, etc. it would be clear to you.

God was with him, Jesus, especially during his ministry and the like via said power.

FACT: Many scriptures refer to the Holy Spirit as the power of God (Zechariah 4:6; Micah 3:8). Apostle Paul told Timothy that it is the spirit of power and of love and of a sound mind in 2 Timothy 1:7 (added emphasis).

  • 2 Timothy 1:7  - for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

FACT: In the gospel of Luke, Luke 4:14, it records that Jesus Christ began His ministry in the power of the Spirit. Luke 1:35 identifies the Holy Spirit with the power that is of the Highest. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, which would be given to His followers after His death, Jesus told them, You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

Acts 1:8 - But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

FACT: Simon Peter relates how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, [and Jesus] went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him, as seen in Acts 10:38 (pertaining to the above). The Holy Spirit is here associated with the power by which God was with Him— the power through which Jesus Christ performed mighty miracles during His earthly, physical ministry. The Holy Spirit is the very presence of God's power actively working in His servants. The apostle Paul's desire was that the members of the Church in Rome would abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit, in the same way that Jesus Christ had worked through him in mighty signs and wonders , by the power of the Spirit of God (Romans 15:13, 19).

Answer to Acts 10:38 found here:

 

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On 7/13/2018 at 9:50 PM, Cos said:

There is no mistake; Christ did not cease to exist when He was executed on the cross. The “ransom sacrifice” as some like to call it was by the shedding of His blood. The idea that death means you cease to exist is another clear example of how some will read into Scripture what has no biblical support.

 

 

 

Just as when they say the Holy Spirit is not a Person but a “power” with no biblical support. And then regardless of any rationality will claim that all the many times the Scriptures demonstrate the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, they say that these are personifications.

 

 

 

Some as usual go into a long incoherent tirade and avoid (play down) what Jesus says to maintain a false idea that is read into the Scriptures, and then they will later go on to claim that that “has already been addressed”. <><

 

 

Koine Greek: PNEUMA - Hebrew: RUACH?

In the Christian Greek texts "pneuma" is always designated as a neuter noun - meaning the writers understood it as a what or a which but never a who, let alone a he or him [note for clarification for those who would hope to salvage the "who" for trinity purposes, ho parakleetos is a descriptive masculine noun used in reference to the neuter noun pneuma in John 14:16, 26 and John 15:26. The demonstrative pronoun of ho parakleetos is ekeinos, meaning "that" or "that one." The author has appropriately used ekeinos in reference to ho parakleetos as "that one," whereas most translations incorrectly translate ekeinos as "He." ]


This is consistent with the Hebrew cognate ruach [the Hebrew word you often see translated as "spirit"], which merely means, literally, in its concrete, an impersonal force which enacts upon other things. Like the "wind" which enacts upon the leaves of a tree and appears to make the tree animate. "Wind" is in fact how the word ruach is first used in the biblical text in Genesis.


One example: John 3:8, "“The wind [pneuma] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit [pneuma].” [ESV].


The same word and gender and form is used in both places. In one instance, those performing the English translation hold true to existing koine Greek grammatical rules - and in the second instance, they blatantly depart from those rules - any suppositions as to why?
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Jesus died on the cross, but that does not mean He ceased to exist. What Jesus says in Luke 23:46, “into your hands I commit my spirit” means, in fact, that even though His body died His spirit continued existing. This can be seen from the stoning of Stephen.

 

“And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit’” (Acts 7:59). This verse virtually makes no sense if you interpret that Stephen ceased to exist at the moment of his death. Why would Stephen pray to Jesus to “receive” what was about to cease existing?

 

Then there is the claim that “Jesus himself slept in Hades”. This claim ignores many Scriptures. Anyway let’s look at this; sleeping is NOT the cessation of personal existence as some seem to assume. Death is compared to sleep because the person “sleeping” is not aware of the physical realm.

 

Anyway none of what the claimant says shows that death means the person ceases to exist.

 

Now, I am being accused of ignoring what actually is not stated.

 

I hold that nowhere in Scripture does it say “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God”. Nowhere! Every passage where the idea the Holy Spirit is a power must be read in into them.

 

First one that I supposedly ignored, Zechariah 4:6 “He then said to me: ‘This is the word of Jehovah to Zerubbabel: ‘“Not by force, nor by power, but by my Spirit,” says Jehovah of armies.’”

Now I don’t see in this passage where it says the Holy Spirit is a power, unless one reads that idea into the verse, in fact just substitute the word “Spirit” with the word “power” and you will see how absurd such an idea actually is!

 

Next is Micah 3:8, again the idea must be read into the verse, in fact being filled “with power BY the Spirit” shows that “power’ and the “Spirit” are NOT synonymous.

 

2 Tim. 1:7 again is reading into the passage that “a spirit” is supposedly the “the Spirit”. Here “a spirit” is the proper temperament and character formed in Paul and Timothy. Simple test; “for God gave us a power not of fear but of power…” once again an absurd idea read into 2 Tim 1:7.

 

It is claimed Luke 4:14 “records” that Jesus “began His ministry in the power of the {power}” Once again this demonstrates the absurdity of the idea that is being read into the passage of Luke 4:14.

 

Next claim is that Luke 1:35 “identifies the Holy Spirit with the power that is of the Highest” Let’s note that this verse is NOT saying that the Holy Spirit is synonymous with the “power”, that idea must be read into the verse.

 

FACT; Luke 1:35 is not saying “The Holy Spirit is the power of the Highest”.

 

In Romans 1:16 the Scriptures are called the power of God; “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation…” but everyone knows that they are not used interchangeably synonymous in this verse but are two distinct things: "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God." Matt. 22:29.

 

 The Scriptures were the source of the Jews doctrinal misunderstandings and God's power would raise all men from the dead at the second coming. To demand that Scriptures and God's power are interchangeably synonymous in Matt. 22:29 is just as wrong as claiming the Holy Spirit and power are interchangeably synonymous in Luke 1:35.

 

Acts 1:8 is another text I supposedly ignored; again one must read into this passage the idea that ‘power” and “the Holy Spirit” are interchangeably synonymous when the two are not.

 

As can be seen these verses, which I supposedly ignored, must have the idea that the Holy Spirit is a “power” read into them.

 

Nowhere in Scripture does it say “the Holy Spirit is a power” or “the Holy Spirit is the power of God” unless one reads that idea into a passage or text. <><

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      ORIGEN OF ALEXANDRIA ON ISAIAH 48v16 References
      Millard J. Erickson (1992). Introducing Christian Doctrine. Baker Book House. p. 103. T C Hammond; Revised and edited by David F Wright (1968). In Understanding be Men:A Handbook of Christian Doctrine. (sixth ed.). Inter-Varsity Press. pp. 54–56 and 128–131. Grudem, Wayne A. 1994. Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine. Leicester, England: Inter-Varsity Press; Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan. Page 226. Acts and Pauline writings by Watson E. Mills, Richard F. Wilson 1997 ISBN 0-86554-512-X, pages xl–xlx Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey by Craig L. Blomberg 2009 ISBN 0-8054-4482-3, page 280 Grabe, Petrus J. The Power of God in Paul's Letters 2008 ISBN 978-3-16-149719-3, pp. 248–249 Spirit of Truth: The origins of Johannine pneumatology by John Breck 1990 ISBN 0-88141-081-0, pages 1–5 Jesus in Trinitarian Perspective: An Introductory Christology by Scott Horrell, Donald Fairbairn, Garrett DeWeese and Bruce Ware (Oct 1, 2007) ISBN 080544422X pages 208-213   John by Andreas J. Köstenberger 2004 ISBN 080102644X, page 442 The Gospel of John: Question by Question by Judith Schubert 2009 ISBN 0809145499, pages 112–127 Lord, giver of life by Jane Barter Moulaison 2006 ISBN 0-88920-501-9 page 5 Vickers, Jason E. Invocation and Assent: The Making and the Remaking of Trinitarian Theology. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2008. ISBN 0-8028-6269-1, pages 2–5 The Cambridge Companion to the Trinity by Peter C. Phan 2011 ISBN 0521701139, pages 3–4 Companion Bible–KJV–Large Print by E. W. Bullinger, Kregel Publications, 1999. ISBN 0-8254-2099-7. Page 146. Robin W. Lovin, Foreword to the English translation of Karl Barth's The Holy Spirit and the Christian Life (1993 ISBN 0-664-25325-3), page xvii Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . The Guardian (London). 2005-04-11. Retrieved 2010-05-04. Matthew 28:19 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. The Gospel of Luke by Luke Timothy Johnson, Daniel J. Harrington 1992 ISBN 0-8146-5805-9, page 195 1, 2, and 3 John by John Painter, Daniel J. Harrington 2002 ISBN 0-8146-5812-1, page 324 The anointed community: the Holy Spirit in the Johannine tradition by Gary M. Burge 1987 ISBN 0-8028-0193-5, pages 14–21 Theology of Paul the Apostle by James D. G. Dunn 2003 ISBN 0-567-08958-4, pages 418–420 A Concise Dictionary of Theology by Gerald O'Collins, Edward G. Farrugia 2004 ISBN 0-567-08354-3 page 115 Holy People of the World: A Cross-Cultural Encyclopedia, Volume 3 by Phyllis G. Jestice 2004 ISBN 1-57607-355-6, pages 393–394 1 & 2 Thessalonians by Jon A. Weatherly 1996 ISBN 0-89900-636-1, pages 42–43 The Acts of the Apostles by Luke Timothy Johnson, Daniel J. Harrington 1992 ISBN 0-8146-5807-5, pages 14–18 A Bible Handbook to the Acts of the Apostles by Mal Couch 2004 ISBN 0-8254-2391-0, pages 120–129 Reading Acts: A Literary and Theological Commentary on the Acts of the Apostles by Charles H. Talbert 2005 ISBN 1-57312-277-7, pages 24–25 Karl Barth (1949). Dogmatics in Outline. New York Philosophical Library. p. 95. The Gospel According to John: An Introduction and Commentary by Colin G. Kruse (Jun 2004) ISBN 0802827713, page 123 The Cambridge Companion to Christian Doctrine by Colin E. Gunton (Jun 28, 1997) ISBN 052147695X, pages 280–285 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Pope Pius XII (1943). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . See discussion in "Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ". Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. 1913. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Luke 1:35 Harrington, Daniel J., SJ. "Jesus Goes Public." America, Jan. 7–14, 2008, p. 38 [Mt 3:17] [Mk 1:11] [Lk 3:21-22] John 15:26 John 14:16 Theology for the Community of God by Stanley J. Grenz (Jan 31, 2000) ISBN 0802847552 page 380 Baptism in the Early Church: History, Theology, and Liturgy in the First Five Centuries by Everett Ferguson (Mar 29, 2009) ISBN 0802827489, page 776 Systematic Theology by Lewis Sperry Chafer 1993 ISBN 0-8254-2340-6, page 25 The Wiersbe Bible Commentary: The Complete New Testament by Warren W. Wiersbe 2007 ISBN 978-0-7814-4539-9, page 471 The mystery of the Triune God by John Joseph O'Donnell 1988 ISBN 0-7220-5760-1 page 75 Millard J. Erickson (1992). Introducing Christian Doctrine. Baker Book House. pp. 265–270. Though the term "born again" is most frequently used by evangelical Christians, most denominations do consider that the new Christian is a "new creation" and "born again". See for example the Catholic Encyclopedia Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ] The Holy Spirit and His Gifts. J. Oswald Sanders. Inter-Varsity Press. chapter 5. T C Hammond; Revised and edited by David F Wright (1968). In Understanding be Men:A Handbook of Christian Doctrine. (sixth ed.). Inter-Varsity Press. p. 134. CCC nos. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . The Epistle to the Galatians (The New International Commentary on the New Testament) by Ronald Y. K. Fung (Jul 22, 1988) Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing ISBN 0802825095, pages 262–263 Erickson, Millard J. (1992). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Publishing Group. ISBN 0-801-03215-6; ISBN 978-08-0103-215-8. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . ISBN 0-801-02250-9; ISBN 978-08-0102-250-0. Shaw, Russell; Stravinskas, Peter M. J. (1998). Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Huntington, Indiana: Our Sunday Visitor Publishing. p. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . ISBN 0-879-73669-0; ISBN 978-08-7973-669-9. Kasper, Walter. The Petrine ministry. Catholics and Orthodox in Dialogue: Academic Symposium Neld at the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. Paulist Press. p. 188. ISBN 978-0-8091-4334-4. Kinnamon, Michael; Cope, Brian E. (1997). The Ecumenical Movement: An Anthology of Key Texts and Voices. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. p. 172.ISBN 978-0-8028-4263-3. The Holy Spirit: Classic and Contemporary Readings by Eugene F. Rogers Jr. (May 19, 2009) Wiley ISBN 1405136235, page 81 Introduction to Theology by Owen C. Thomas and Ellen K. Wondra (Jul 1, 2002 )ISBN 0819218979, page 221 David Watson (1973). One in the Spirit. Hodder and Stoughton. pp. 39–64. Encyclopedia of Protestantism by J. Gordon Melton 2008 ISBN 0816077460, page 69 Encyclopedia of Protestantism by J. Gordon Melton 2008 ISBN 0816077460, page 134 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Awake!: 14–15. July 2006. "In the Bible, God's Holy Spirit is identified as God's power in action. Hence, an accurate translation of the Bible's Hebrew text refers to God’s spirit as "God's active force."" Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "True to the Faith", p. 81Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. David Watson (1973). One in the Spirit. Hodder and Stoughton. pp. 20–25. Catechism of the Catholic Church: Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Renaissance Art: A Topical Dictionary by Irene Earls 1987 ISBN 0-313-24658-0, page 70 Gardner's Art Through the Ages: The Western Perspective by Fred S. Kleiner ISBN 495573558, page 349 Vladimir Lossky, 1999 The Meaning of Icons ISBN 0-913836-99-0, page 17 We Believe in the Holy Spirit (Ancient Christian Doctrine, No. 4) by Joel C. Elowsky (Jul 13, 2009) InterVarsity ISBN 0830825347, page 14 The Holy Spirit: Classic and Contemporary Readings by Eugene F. Rogers Jr. (May 19, 2009) Wiley ISBN 1405136235, pages 121–123  
    • By The Librarian
      Franz Fred - Operation of the Holy Spirit.mp3

      Operation of the Holy Spirit 
      Holy spirit and history
      by:
      1982 
      Allegheny PA 
      1:51:51
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Witness:
      I pay attention to what you write ... it being easier the shorter the epistle is, but I have an observation that in THIS case I consider to be quite true.
      The fact that down at the bottom, below the Elder  level of organization, the crapola that sometimes comes out of JW leadership, in it's self serving, self aggrandizing pontification, is somehow (for the most part) subtracted out, and our lives are made much better in every way,
      The only explanation I can deduce for this phenomena is "Holy Spirit", working in the minds and hearts of the JWs down at the bottom of the stack.
      It's like watching Forest Gump wander through life, thinking he has invested in a start-up fruit company ... and it turns out to be Apple Computer.
    • By The Librarian
      "Also, do not be grieving God’s holy spirit, with which you have been sealed for a day of releasing by ransom."
      - Ephesians 4:30
       
      Be wrathful but do not sin.....
      Staying angry could be what could grieve the spirit.
       
      See also: 
      Article on 
       
    • By AnonymousBrother
      Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
      That might over one case.
    • By The Librarian
      Glass Ulysses - Joseph and the Operation of Jehovahs Holy Spirit.mp3
      Ulysses V Glass
      Joseph and the Operation of Jehovahs Holy Spirit
      3/22/1971 
      Florida
      1:56:55

      See also:
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      WILL FEAR STOP THE GOOD NEWS OR GOD'S WILL?
      (John 15:19)  Because of peer pressure, some men may hesitate to follow Christ fully. Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea kept their interest in Jesus secret because they were afraid of what other Jews might say or do if they found out. (John 3:1, 2; 19:38)
      This fear was not imaginary. The religious leaders’ hatred for Jesus eventually became so great that anyone who confessed faith in him was expelled from the synagogue.
      In some places today, if a man takes too much interest in God, the Bible, or religion, he may be harassed by his workmates, friends, or relatives. In other places, it may even be dangerous to talk about changing one’s religion.
      Peer pressure can be especially difficult when a man is actively serving in the military, in politics, or in the local community.
      For example, a man in Germany admitted: “What you Witnesses preach about the Bible is true. But if I became a Witness today, by tomorrow everyone would know about it. What would they think at work, in the neighborhood, and at the club my family and I belong to? I could not put up with that.”
      Although none of Jesus’ apostles were cowards, they all struggled with fear of man. (Mark 14:50, 66-72)
      How did Jesus help them to progress despite intense pressure from their peers?
      Jesus took steps to prepare his disciples for the opposition they would later face. “Happy are you whenever men hate you,” he said, “and whenever they exclude you and reproach you and cast out your name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man.” (Luke 6:22)
      Jesus warned his followers that they should expect reproach. Any reproach was “for the sake of the Son of man.”
      Jesus also assured them that God would back them up as long as they relied on Him for help and strength. (Luke 12:4-12)
      Moreover, Jesus invited new ones to associate freely with his disciples and make friends with them.
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.


    • By Jesus.defender
      HOLY SPIRIT: Is He a PERSON or an ACTIVE FORCE? II Cor3:17
      Watchtower Teaching: The WT claims that the HS is neither a person nor God, but an impersonal ‘active force’ to achieve God’s will, like electricity or radio waves.
      Bible Teaching: The Holy Spirit is fully God and has personality as He can be blasphemed.
      The Holy Spirit has the three attributes of personality, those being: mind, emotions and will.
      An ‘active force’ does not have personal attributes. The WT’s claim of the Holy Spirit being an active force is disproven if the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit has mind,emotions & will.
      1. The Holy Spirit has a mind.
      (1) ‘He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit’. (Romans 8:27). The word ‘mind’ means ‘way of thinking’, something which is only true of a person.
      (2) ‘The things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.’ (I Corinthians 2:11).
      QUESTION: How can the Holy Spirit know the things of God if the Spirit does not have a mind? A force does not know things. To know requires a mind.
      (3) The Spirit searcheth all things’ (I Corinthians 2:10). The Greek word for ‘search’ means to thoroughly investigate a matter, something only a mind can do.
      2) The Holy Spirit has emotions
      (4) The Holy Spirit loves: ‘I beseech you..through the love of the Spirit’.(Rom 15:30 NWT).
      (5) ‘Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God’. (Ephesians 4:30) The Holy Spirit is grieved (made sad) when believers sin. Grief is an emotion that one feels. A force can’t be grieved.
      3) The Holy Spirit has a will. He performs personal acts.
      (6) The Holy Spirit distributes spiritual gifts ‘to every man severally as he will.’(I Cor.12:11) The phrase ‘he wills’ in Greek means ‘a decision of the will after previous deliberation’. The Holy Spirit chooses which gifts each believer receives. A force has no such will,
      nor ability to make decisions.
      (7) The Holy Spirit commands: ‘The Spirit bade me go with them’ (Acts 11:12)
      (8) The Holy Spirit forbids:‘forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia’.Acts 16:6
      (9) The Holy Spirit speaks: ‘The Spirit said to Philip, Go near.’ (Acts 8:29)
      ‘The Holy Ghost said, separate me Barnabus and Saul’. (Acts 13:2)
      ‘The Spirit speaketh expressly’. (I Timothy 4:1).
      QUESTION: How do you explain the WT view of the Holy Spirit being an impersonal force, with the Bible’s teaching that the Holy Spirit has a mind that can know, emotions that can feel love and grief, and a will to make decisions?
      (10) The Holy Spirit testifies: ‘He shall testify of me’. (John 15:26).
      The same Greek word for testify (or bear witness) used here, is also used of:
      a) The disciples testifying about Christ in John 15:27.
      b) John the Baptist bearing witness to the truth in John 5:33.
      c) God the Father bore witness to Cornelius’ (and Gentiles’) conversion by giving them the Holy Spirit. (Acts 15:8)
      Just as the disciples, John and God the Father (who are all persons) testified or bore witness, so the Holy Spirit bears witness about Christ. A force cannot bear witness, only a person can. (The Holy Spirit bears witness in heaven and on earth - I John 5:7,8)
      (11) The Holy Spirit intercedes or prays for believers.‘The Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings’. (Romans 8:26). 
      Just as Jesus Christ (a person) intercedes for believers (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25), so the Holy Spirit (as a person) intercedes
      (same Greek word) for believers. A force cannot pray for another; only a person can pray.
      (12) The Holy Spirit teaches believers. (‘he shall teach you all things’. John 14:26)
      (13) The Holy Spirit hears. ‘Whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.’ (John 16:13)
      (14) The Holy Spirit shows us things. ‘he....shall show it unto you’. (John 16:15)
      (15) The Holy Spirit restrains sin. ‘My Spirit shall not always strive with man’(Genesis 6:3)
      (16) The Holy Spirit can be blasphemed.‘he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost’.Mk3:29
      People cannot be blasphemed. We can only be slandered. Only God can be blasphemed.
      By Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit being blasphemed means we’ve proved the Trinity.
      (a) God the Father can be blasphemed. (Revelation 13:6; 16:9)
      (b) God the Son can be blasphemed. (Luke 22:65)
      ‘And many other things blasphemously they spake against him’.
      (c) God the Holy Spirit can be blasphemed. (Matthew 12:31)
      ‘Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.’
      (17) The Holy Spirit can be lied to (Acts 5:3). Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit.
      QUESTION: Have you ever lied to electricity and asked electricity to forgive you?
      (18) The Holy Spirit cries in our hearts, Abba, Father. (Galatians 4:6)
      (19) The Holy Spirit approves some decisions:
      ‘It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us’. (Acts 15:28)
      (20) The Holy Spirit invites people to be saved:‘The Spirit & the bride say Come’Rev 22:17
      (21) The Holy Spirit fills us (Ephesians 5:18) just as God may fill us (Ephesians 3:19).
      (22) The Holy Spirit uses personal pronouns to describe Himself: John 15:26; 16:13;(he):
      ‘The Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabus. . .’ (Acts 13:2).
      The Holy Spirit considers Himself a person, not a personification.
      Watchtower Objection:
      The main reason the JWs say that the Holy Spirit is an ‘active force’ is because the Greek word for ‘spirit’ (pneuma) is neuter.
      Answer: This is faulty reasoning, because 1)the gender of a word relates to the grammatical form of the word, not to its sex or physical gender. Because a word is grammatically neuter does not mean that the object is an ‘it’ or of neuter sex.
      (Source: Elements of NT Greek, J W Wenham, 1979, p.8).
      For example, in Greek, ‘children’ is a neuter word, ‘desert’ is a feminine word, etc.and
      2) In John 15:26 and 16:13, the neuter noun ‘pneuma’ is referred to by the masculine pronoun ‘ekeinos’ (1565=that one, masculine) recognising the Holy Spirit’s masculine personality. ‘He (ekeinos) shall testify of me’ (15:26); ‘when he (ekeinos), the Spirit of
      truth shall come’ (16:13). Note: ‘ekeine’ is feminine ‘that one’, and ‘ekeino’ is neuter).
      (23) The Holy Spirit comforts (Gk: parakletos) believers. John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7. This same Greek word ‘parakletos’ (3875) is used of Christ who has personality in John 14:16 and I John 2:1. ‘Another Comforter’ (Gk: allos parakletos, John 14:16) means
      ‘another of the same kind’ as Christ, in contrast to ‘heteros’ (2087) meaning ‘another of a different kind’. As Christ has Deity and Personality, so does the Holy Spirit. To comfort requires empathy, understanding, love, compassion and concern for another’s
      well-being, all being attributes of personality.
      Conclusion: Hence,the Holy Spirit is a person because 1) He has mind, emotions,& will. 2) Personal pronouns are used of Him. 3) He performs personal acts.4) He associates with the Father and Son in the Baptism formula, Apostolic benediction and as Church
      Administrator (I Cor. 12:4-6). 5) He can be personally mistreated (tempted, lied to, grieved, resisted, insulted and blasphemed). The New Testament clearly shows the Holy Spirit to have a personality and to be God. (‘Jehovah is the Spirit’ II Cor. 3:17 NWT).
       
    • By Bible Speaks
      Stress is all around us, what do you do to be Stress-free? Read the Bible day and night, keep in God's Love, ask for His Holy Spirit to help you. Attend meetings and conventions, study, help others It will keep you strong!
      King David was under much Stress when having to deal with King Saul, what did he do? - He found Jehovah was the only one to help him through this hard time. 
      If you are having hard times right now, find comfort in these scriptures. - Jehovah Cares for Us too! - No Fear just Protection! - Now I Feel Better, don't You? ~
      (Psalm 31:21-24) . . .Blessed be Jehovah, For he has rendered wonderful loving-kindness to me in a city under stress. 22 As for me, I said when I became panicky: “I shall certainly be exterminated from in front of your eyes.” Surely you have heard the voice of my entreaties when I cried to you for help. 23 O love Jehovah, all YOU loyal ones of his. The faithful ones Jehovah is safeguarding, But he is rewarding exceedingly anyone showing haughtiness. 24 Be courageous, and may YOUR heart be strong, All YOU who are waiting for Jehovah. . ."
      (1 Samuel 23:26) . . .Eventually Saul came to this side of the mountain, and David and his men were on that side of the mountain. So David became hurried to go away because of Saul; all the while Saul and his men were closing in on David and his men to grab hold of them." 
      (Psalm 68:19) Blessed be Jehovah, who daily carries the load for us, The [true] God of our salvation. Se′lah."
      (Luke 1:68) “Blessed be Jehovah the God of Israel, because he has turned his attention and performed deliverance toward his people."
      (Psalm 6:9) Jehovah will indeed hear my request for favor; Jehovah himself will accept my own prayer."
      (Proverbs 15:29) Jehovah is far away from the wicked ones, but the prayer of the righteous ones he hears."
      (Hebrews 5:7) In the days of his flesh [Christ] offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear."
      (Deuteronomy 10:12) “And now, O Israel, what is Jehovah your God asking of you but to fear Jehovah your God, so as to walk in all his ways and to love him and to serve Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul."
      (Deuteronomy 30:20) by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them.”
      (Psalm 34:9) Fear Jehovah, YOU holy ones of his, For there is no lack to those fearing him."
      (1 Samuel 2:9) The feet of his loyal ones he guards; As for the wicked ones, they are silenced in darkness, For not by power does a man prove superior."
      (Psalm 145:20) Jehovah is guarding all those loving him, But all the wicked ones he will annihilate.
      (Psalm 27:14) Hope in Jehovah; be courageous and let your heart be strong. Yes, hope in Jehovah."
      (Isaiah 35:4) Say to those who are anxious at heart: “Be strong. Do not be afraid. Look! YOUR own God will come with vengeance itself, God even with a repayment. He himself will come and save YOU people.”





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    • Eric Ouellet

      CHANTONS À JÉHOVAH UN CHANT NOUVEAU
      Il est bon de rendre grâces à Jéhovah
      et d’exécuter des mélodies pour ton nom, ô Très-Haut !
      D’annoncer ta bonté de cœur le matin
      et ta fidélité pendant les nuits,
      sur un instrument à dix cordes et sur le luth,
      aux accords sonores de la harpe.
      Car tu m’as réjoui, ô Jéhovah, à cause de ton action ;
      à cause des œuvres de tes mains je pousse des cris de joie.
      Que tes œuvres sont grandes, ô Jéhovah !
      Tes pensées sont très profondes.
      L’homme dépourvu de raison ne peut les connaître,
      et le stupide ne peut comprendre cela.
      Quand les méchants germent comme la végétation
      et que fleurissent tous ceux qui 
      pratiquent ce qui est malfaisant,
      c’est pour être anéantis pour toujours.
      Mais toi, tu es là-haut pour des temps indéfinis, ô Jéhovah!
      Car voici que tes ennemis, ô Jéhovah,
      car voici que tes ennemis périront;
      tous ceux qui pratiquent ce qui est malfaisant seront séparés les uns des autres.
      Mais tu élèveras ma corne comme celle du taureau sauvage;
      je m’arroserai d’huile fraîche.
      Mon œil regardera mes ennemis;
      mes oreilles entendront parler de ceux
      qui se dressent contre moi, les malfaiteurs.
      Le juste fleurira comme un palmier ;
      il grandira comme un cèdre du Liban.
      Ceux qui sont plantés dans la maison de Jéhovah,
      dans les cours de notre Dieu — ils fleuriront.
      Ils prospéreront encore durant les cheveux gris,
      ils resteront gras et frais,
      pour annoncer que Jéhovah est droit.
      Il est mon Rocher, Celui en qui il n’y a pas d’injustice.
      Jéhovah lui-même est devenu roi!
      De grandeur il est vêtu ;
      Jéhovah est vêtu de force Il s’est ceint.
      Le sol productif aussi s’établit solidement
      de sorte qu’il ne peut chanceler.
      Ton trône est solidement établi depuis les temps anciens ;
      tu es depuis des temps indéfinis.
      Les fleuves ont fait retentir, ô Jéhovah,
      les fleuves ont fait retentir leur bruit ;
      les fleuves sans arrêt font retentir leur fracas.
      Par-dessus les bruits des eaux immenses,
      des vagues majestueuses de la mer qui déferlent,
      Jéhovah est majestueux dans les hauteurs.
      Tes rappels se sont révélés très dignes de foi.
      La sainteté convient à ta maison, ô Jéhovah,
      pour la longueur des jours.
      Ô Dieu aux actes de vengeance
      Jéhovah , ô Dieu aux actes de vengeance, apparais.
      Lève-toi, ô Juge de la terre!
      Fais revenir la rétribution sur les orgueilleux.
      Jusqu’à quand les méchants, ô Jéhovah,
      jusqu’à quand les méchants vont-ils exulter ?
      Sans cesse ils font jaillir un flot de paroles,
      sans cesse ils parlent avec audace;
      sans cesse ils se vantent, 
      tous ceux qui pratiquent ce qui est malfaisant.
      Ton peuple, ô Jéhovah, ils continuent à l’écraser,
      et ton héritage, ils continuent à l’affliger.
      Ils tuent la veuve et le résident étranger,
      ils assassinent les orphelins de père.
      Et ils continuent à dire : “ Yah ne voit pas;
      le Dieu de Jacob ne le comprend pas. ”
      Comprenez donc, vous qui êtes dépourvus de raison parmi le peuple;
      et vous, stupides, quand serez-vous perspicaces ?
      Celui qui plante l’oreille, est-ce qu’il ne peut pas entendre ?
      Ou Celui qui forme l’œil, est-ce qu’il ne peut pas regarder ?
      Celui qui corrige les nations, 
      est-ce qu’il ne peut pas reprendre,
      oui Celui qui enseigne la connaissance aux hommes?
      Jéhovah connaît les pensées des hommes,
      il sait qu’elles sont comme une vapeur.
      Heureux l’homme robuste que tu corriges, ô Yah,
      et que tu enseignes par ta loi,
      pour lui donner le calme aux jours du malheur,
      jusqu’à ce qu’une fosse soit creusée pour le méchant.
      Car Jéhovah n’abandonnera pas son peuple,
      et il ne quittera pas son héritage.
      Car la décision judiciaire retournera à la justice,
      et tous ceux qui ont le cœur droit la suivront.
      Qui se dressera pour moi contre les malfaiteurs?
      Qui se postera pour moi contre ceux qui pratiquent ce qui est malfaisant ?
      Si Jéhovah ne m’était venu en aide,
      sous peu mon âme aurait résidé dans le silence.
      Lorsque j’ai dit : “ À coup sûr, mon pied chancellera ”,
      ta bonté de cœur, ô Jéhovah, m’a soutenu sans relâche.
      Quand mes pensées troublantes se multiplièrent au-dedans de moi,
      tes consolations se mirent à cajoler mon âme.
      Sera-t-il allié à toi, le trône qui cause des adversités,
      tandis qu’il façonne le malheur par décret ?
      Ils lancent de vives attaques contre l’âme du juste
      et déclarent coupable le sang de l’innocent.
      Mais Jéhovah deviendra pour moi une hauteur sûre,
      et mon Dieu, le rocher de mon refuge.
      Il ramènera sur eux leurs méfaits
      et les réduira au silence par leur malheur.
      Jéhovah notre Dieu les réduira au silence.
      Oh ! venez, poussons des cris de joie vers Jéhovah !
      Poussons des cris de triomphe vers notre Rocher de salut.
      Présentons-nous devant sa personne avec des actions de grâces;
      avec des mélodies poussons vers lui des cris de triomphe.
      Car Jéhovah est un grand Dieu
      et un grand Roi au-dessus de tous les autres dieux,
      lui en la main de qui sont les profondeurs 
      les plus secrètes de la terre
      et à qui appartiennent les cimes des montagnes;
      lui à qui appartient la mer qu’il a faite
      et dont les mains ont formé la terre ferme.
      Oh ! entrez, adorons et courbons-nous!
      Agenouillons nous devant Jéhovah notre Auteur.
      Car il est notre Dieu, et nous sommes le peuple
      de son pâturage et les brebis de sa main.
      Aujourd’hui, si vous écoutez sa voix,
      n’endurcissez pas votre cœur comme à Meriba,
      comme au jour de Massa dans le désert,
      quand vos ancêtres m’ont mis à l’épreuve ;
      ils m’ont examiné, ils ont aussi vu mon action.
      Pendant quarante ans j’ai éprouvé du dégoût pour cette génération,
      alors j’ai dit :
      “ C’est un peuple au cœur errant,
      et ils n’ont pas appris à connaître mes voies ” ;
      à propos de qui j’ai juré dans ma colère:
      “ Ils n’entreront pas dans mon lieu de repos
      Chantez pour Jéhovah un chant nouveau.
      Chantez pour Jéhovah, vous tous, gens de la terre !
      Chantez pour Jéhovah, bénissez son nom.
      De jour en jour annoncez la bonne nouvelle de son salut.
      Proclamez parmi les nations sa gloire,
      parmi tous les peuples ses œuvres prodigieuses."
      Car Jéhovah est grand et on doit le louer infiniment.
      Il est redoutable par-dessus tous les autres dieux.
      Car tous les dieux des peuples sont des dieux sans valeur ;
      mais Jéhovah, lui, a fait les cieux.
      Dignité et splendeur sont devant lui;
      force et beauté sont dans son sanctuaire.
      Attribuez à Jéhovah, ô familles des peuples,
      attribuez à Jéhovah gloire et force.
      Attribuez à Jéhovah la gloire qui appartient à son nom;
      portez un don et entrez dans ses cours.
      Prosternez-vous devant Jéhovah en ornements sacrés;
      soyez dans de violentes douleurs à cause de lui, 
      vous tous, gens de la terre !
      Dites parmi les nations :
       “ Jéhovah lui-même est devenu roi."
      Le sol productif aussi s’établit solidement,
      de sorte qu’il ne peut chanceler.
      Il va plaider la cause des peuples avec droiture. 
      Que les cieux se réjouissent, et que la terre soit en joie.
      Que gronde la mer et ce qui la remplit.
      Qu’exulte la campagne et tout ce qui s’y trouve.
      Qu’en même temps tous les arbres de la forêt 
      poussent des cris de joie devant Jéhovah. 
      Car il est venu ;
      car il est venu pour juger la terre.
      Il jugera le sol productif avec justice
      et les peuples avec sa fidélité.
      Jéhovah lui-même est devenu roi ! 
      Que la terre soit en joie.
      Que les îles nombreuses se réjouissent
      Des nuages et une obscurité épaisse sont tout autour de lui;
      justice et jugement sont le lieu fixe de son trône.
      Devant lui marche un feu,
      il consume ses adversaires tout autour.
      Ses éclairs ont illuminé le sol productif ;
      la terre a vu, elle a été prise de violentes douleur.
      Alors les montagnes ont fondu
      comme de la cire à cause de Jéhovah,
      à cause du Seigneur de toute la terre.
      Les cieux ont annoncé sa justice,
      et tous les peuples ont vu sa gloire.
      Qu’ils soient honteux,
      tous ceux qui servent quelque image sculptée,
      ceux qui se glorifient en des dieux sans valeur.
      Prosternez-vous devant lui, vous tous les dieux !
      Sion a entendu et s’est alors réjouie,
      et les localités qui dépendent de Juda sont devenues joyeuses
      à cause de tes décisions judiciaires, ô Jéhovah !
      Car toi, ô Jéhovah, tu es le Très-Haut sur toute la terre ;
      tu es très haut dans ta montée par-dessus tous les autres dieux.
      Ô vous qui aimez Jéhovah,
      haïssez ce qui est mauvais.
      Il garde les âmes de ses fidèles;
      de la main des méchants il les délivre.
      La lumière est apparue pour le juste,
      et la joie pour ceux qui ont le cœur droit.
      Réjouissez-vous en Jéhovah, ô vous les justes,
      et rendez grâces à son saint mémorial.
      Chantez pour Jéhovah un chant nouveau,
      car prodigieuses sont les choses qu’il a faites.
      Sa droite, oui son saint bras, lui a procuré le salut.
      Jéhovah a fait connaître son salut;
      aux yeux des nations il a révélé sa justice.
      Il s’est souvenu de sa bonté de cœur et de sa fidélité
      envers la maison d’Israël.
      Toutes les extrémités de la terre ont vu le salut de notre Dieu.
      Poussez des cris de triomphe vers Jéhovah, vous tous, gens de la terre !
      Égayez-vous et poussez des cris de joie et exécutez des mélodies.
      Exécutez des mélodies pour Jéhovah avec la harpe,
      avec la harpe et la voix de la mélodie.
      Avec les trompettes et au son du cor,
      poussez des cris de triomphe devant le Roi, 
      JÉHOVAH.
      Que gronde la mer et ce qui la remplit,
      le sol productif et ceux qui y habitent.
      Que les fleuves battent des mains ;
      que toutes ensemble les montagnes poussent
      des cris de joie devant Jéhovah
      car il est venu pour juger la terre.
      Il jugera le sol productif avec justice
      et les peuples avec droiture.
      Jéhovah lui-même est devenu roi.
      Que les peuples s’agitent.
      Il siège sur les chérubins. 
      Que la terre frémisse.
      Jéhovah est grand dans Sion, et il est élevé
      par-dessus tous les peuples.
      Qu’ils louent ton nom.
      Grand et redoutable, celui-ci est saint.
      Avec une force de roi il a aimé le jugement.
      C’est toi qui as solidement établi la droiture.
      Le jugement et la justice en Jacob, c’est toi qui les as réalisés.
      Exaltez Jéhovah notre Dieu et prosternez-vous
      devant son marchepied ; Car Il est Saint.
      Moïse et Aaron étaient parmi ses prêtres,
      et Samuel parmi ceux qui invoquaient son nom.
      Ils appelaient Jéhovah, et lui leur répondait.
      Dans la colonne de nuage il leur parlait.
      Ils gardaient ses rappels et la prescription qu’il leur avait donnée.
      Ô Jéhovah notre Dieu, tu leur répondais toi-même.
      Tu as été pour eux un Dieu qui pardonne,
      mais qui exécutait la vengeance
      contre leurs actions scandaleuses.
      Exaltez Jéhovah notre Dieu
      et prosternez-vous à sa montagne saint.
      Car Jéhovah notre Dieu est saint.

      · 0 replies
    • folens  »  Eric Ouellet

      Hello Eric merci pour ce bon condensé sur les vœux. Bonne journée et à bientôt. Michel
      b-13-sculptures-de-givre-ggo-wp1.ppsx
      · 1 reply
    • Eric Ouellet

      « Le vœu que tu fais, acquitte toi de se voeux sans renoncer »
      « Tu dois t’acquitter envers Jéhovah de tes vœux » (MATTHIEU 5:33).
      YIPHTAH était un chef et un guerrier courageux. Hanna était une femme humble qui prenait soin de son mari et de sa famille. Tous les deux adoraient Jéhovah. Mais ils ont un autre point commun : ils ont fait un vœu à Jéhovah et ils l’ont respecté fidèlement. Ils sont d’excellents exemples pour les chrétiens qui décident de faire des vœux à Jéhovah. Répondons maintenant à ces trois questions : Qu’est-ce qu’un vœu ? Faire un vœu à Jéhovah, est-ce sérieux ? Quelles leçons tirer des histoires de Yiphtah et de Hanna ?
      Dans la Bible, un vœu est une promesse sérieuse faite à Jéhovah. Par exemple, la promesse de faire quelque chose, d’offrir quelque chose, de commencer un certain service, ou de ne pas faire certaines choses. On fait un vœu volontairement, en utilisant sa liberté de choix. Personne n’est obligé de faire un vœu. Mais si on décide d’en faire un, Jéhovah le considère comme une promesse dont on doit s’acquitter. D’après la Bible, un vœu est aussi important qu’un serment. Un serment, c’est quand une personne jure de faire ou de ne pas faire quelque chose (Genèse 14:22, 23 ; Hébreux 6:16, 17). Que dit la Bible à propos du sérieux des vœux faits à Jéhovah ?
      Dans la Loi de Moïse, on lit que si quelqu’un fait un vœu à Jéhovah, « il ne doit pas violer (trahir) sa parole. Il fera selon tout ce qui est sorti de sa bouche » (Nombres 30:2). Plus tard, Salomon a écrit : « Quand tu fais un vœu à Dieu, n’hésite pas à t’en acquitter, car il n’y a aucun plaisir dans les stupides. Le vœu que tu fais, acquitte-t’en » (Ecclésiaste 5:4). Plus tard encore, Jésus a enseigné qu’un vœu fait à Jéhovah est quelque chose de sérieux, en rappelant : « Il a été dit à ceux des temps anciens : “Tu ne dois pas jurer sans tenir [parole], mais tu dois t’acquitter envers Jéhovah de tes vœux” » (Matthieu 5:33).
      C’est donc clair qu’il faut prendre très au sérieux toute promesse qu’on fait à Jéhovah. Respecter ou non nos vœux a des conséquences sur notre relation avec lui. Un jour, David a demandé : « Qui pourra monter à la montagne de Jéhovah, et qui pourra se lever en son lieu saint », autrement dit être accepté par Jéhovah ? Il a répondu que c’est celui qui ne fait pas de « serment avec tromperie » (Psaume 24:3, 4). Mais quels vœux Yiphtah et Hanna ont-ils faits ? Cela a-t-il été facile pour eux de s’en acquitter ?
      ILS SE SONT ACQUITTÉS DE LEURS VŒUX
      Yiphtah a fait sa promesse à Jéhovah avant de combattre les Ammonites, des ennemis du peuple de Jéhovah (Juges 10:7-9). Il a fait ce vœu (en résumé) : « Si vraiment tu me donnes la victoire, voici ce qui devra arriver : quand je reviendrai en paix de chez les fils d’Ammôn, la personne qui sortira de ma maison à ma rencontre, celle-là devra alors t’appartenir. » Jéhovah a répondu à la prière de Yiphtah en l’aidant à gagner la guerre. Quand Yiphtah est rentré chez lui, sa fille chérie est sortie vers lui. Ce serait donc elle qui « appartiendrait à Jéhovah » (Juges 11:30-34). Qu’est-ce que cela allait changer pour elle ?
      Pour respecter le vœu de Yiphtah, sa fille devrait partir servir Jéhovah à plein temps au tabernacle. Yiphtah avait-il fait son vœu sans réfléchir ? Non. Il savait sans doute que sa fille pourrait être la première personne à sortir vers lui. Mais qu’il l’ait su ou pas, cela n’a pas été facile pour lui de respecter son vœu, et pour sa fille non plus. En effet, en la voyant sortir, il a dit que cela lui causait un grand chagrin. Et elle, elle est partie « pleurer sur sa virginité ». Pourquoi ont-ils pleuré ? Yiphtah n’avait pas de fils, et maintenant sa fille unique ne se marierait jamais et n’aurait pas d’enfant. Le nom de famille de Yiphtah disparaîtrait. Mais tous les deux comprenaient que le plus important, ce n’étaient pas leurs sentiments. Yiphtah a dit : « J’ai ouvert ma bouche pour Jéhovah ; je ne [peux pas] revenir en arrière. » Et sa fille a répondu : « Fais-moi selon ce qui est sorti de ta bouche » (Juges 11:35-39). Tous les deux étaient des personnes fidèles : ils n’auraient jamais eu l’idée de casser un vœu fait à Jéhovah, même si c’était difficile de le respecter (lire Deutéronome 23:21, 23 ; Psaume 15:4).
      Hanna aussi a fait un vœu à Jéhovah dans un moment difficile de sa vie. Elle était malheureuse parce qu’elle ne pouvait pas avoir d’enfants, et qu’à cause de cela elle subissait des remarques méchantes (1 Samuel 1:4-7, 10, 16). En exprimant ses sentiments à Jéhovah, elle lui a fait cette promesse : « Ô Jéhovah des armées, si tu ne manques pas de regarder l’affliction (le chagrin) de ton esclave et si vraiment tu te souviens de moi, si tu n’oublies pas ton esclave et si vraiment tu donnes à ton esclave un descendant mâle, oui je le donnerai à Jéhovah pour tous les jours de sa vie, et le rasoir ne viendra pas sur sa tête. » (1 Samuel 1:11). Jéhovah a répondu à sa prière : l’année suivante elle a eu un fils, Samuel. Elle était très heureuse ! Mais elle n’a pas oublié le vœu qu’elle avait fait à Jéhovah. Après la naissance de son fils, elle a dit : « C’est à Jéhovah que je l’ai demandé » (1 Samuel 1:20).
      Quand Samuel a eu environ trois ans, Hanna a tenu sa promesse. Elle a amené Samuel au grand prêtre Éli, en disant : « C’est à propos de ce garçon que je priais, pour que Jéhovah m’accorde [...] ce que je lui demandais. Et moi, à mon tour, je l’ai prêté à Jéhovah » (1 Samuel 1:24-28). À partir de ce jour-là, Samuel a habité au tabernacle. La Bible dit que « le garçon Samuel grandissait auprès de Jéhovah » (1 Samuel 2:21). Cela n’allait pas être facile pour Hanna de respecter son vœu. Elle ne pourrait plus passer du temps chaque jour avec son fils qu’elle aimait tendrement. Ce serait dur de ne pas le voir grandir. Mais elle a pris son vœu au sérieux. Pour tenir sa promesse, elle a accepté volontiers de sacrifier des choses qui étaient importantes pour elle (1 Samuel 2:1, 2 ; lire Psaume 61:1, 5, 8).
      Parmi les vœux faits à Jéhovah, il y a le vœu de l’offrande de soi, le vœu du mariage et le vœu des serviteurs spéciaux à plein temps
      T’acquittes-tu de tes vœux envers Jéhovah ?
      LE VŒU DE L’OFFRANDE DE SOI
      Le vœu le plus grand qu’un chrétien puisse faire, c’est celui de s’offrir à Jéhovah pour toute la vie. Dans une prière personnelle, ce chrétien promet à Jéhovah d’utiliser sa vie pour le servir pour toujours, quoi qu’il arrive. En faisant ce vœu, il « se renie lui-même » : il promet de donner la plus grande importance non pas à lui-même, mais à Jéhovah (Matthieu 16:24). À partir de ce moment, il appartient à Jéhovah (Romains 14:8). Il prend au sérieux son vœu d’offrande de soi. Il pense comme l’écrivain des Psaumes qui a dit : « Que rendrai-je à Jéhovah pour tous ses bienfaits envers moi ? Je m’acquitterai de mes vœux envers Jéhovah, oui devant tout son peuple » (Psaume 116:12, 14).
      As-tu fait le vœu d’offrir ta vie à Jéhovah, et l’as-tu montré en te faisant baptiser dans l’eau ? Si oui, félicitations ! Rappelle-toi le discours de ton baptême. Le frère t’a demandé si tu avais offert ta vie à Jéhovah, et si tu comprenais qu’en te faisant baptiser, tu montrais « que tu devenais Témoin de Jéhovah ». En entendant ton « oui », tous les assistants ont compris que tu avais offert ta vie à Jéhovah et que tu pouvais te faire baptiser ministre ordonné de Jéhovah. Tu as certainement fait très plaisir à Jéhovah !
      Quand tu t’es fait baptiser, tu as promis à Jéhovah d’utiliser ta vie pour le servir, et de tout faire pour obéir à ses normes. Mais le baptême n’est qu’un début. Le temps passant, on doit tous continuer à s’examiner. Alors, demande-toi : « Ma relation avec Jéhovah est-elle de plus en plus forte depuis mon baptême ? Est-ce que je le sers toujours de tout mon cœur ? (Colossiens 3:23). Est-ce que je prie souvent ? Est-ce que je lis la Bible tous les jours ? Est-ce que j’assiste régulièrement aux réunions de la congrégation ? Est-ce que je prêche aussi souvent que possible ? Ou, au contraire, est-ce que j’ai perdu un peu de mon envie de faire ces activités ? » D’après l’apôtre Pierre, pour ne pas devenir inactifs dans notre service pour Jéhovah, nous devons nous efforcer de faire grandir en nous la foi, la connaissance, l’endurance et l’attachement à Jéhovah (lire 2 Pierre 1:5-8).
      Une fois que quelqu’un a prononcé le vœu de servir Jéhovah, il ne peut pas reprendre sa parole. S’il en a assez de servir Jéhovah ou de vivre en chrétien, il ne peut pas dire : « Je n’ai jamais vraiment offert ma vie à Jéhovah ; mon baptême n’était pas valable* » (lire la note). Si un chrétien commet un péché grave alors qu’il s’est offert à Jéhovah, il est responsable de sa conduite devant Jéhovah et la congrégation (Romains 14:12). Nous ne voulons pas ressembler aux chrétiens à qui Jésus a dit : « Tu as laissé l’amour que tu avais au début. » Au contraire, nous voulons qu’il puisse nous dire : « Je connais tes actions, et ton amour, et ta foi, et ton ministère, et ton endurance, et je sais que tes actions récentes sont plus nombreuses que celles d’autrefois » (Révélation 2:4, 19). Nous voulons faire plaisir à Jéhovah en nous acquittant avec zèle de notre vœu.
      LE VŒU DU MARIAGE
      Des mariés échangent leurs vœux de mariage
      Le deuxième vœu le plus important qu’on puisse faire, c’est celui du mariage. Le mariage est sacré. Jéhovah considère ce vœu comme quelque chose de très sérieux. Quand des mariés prononcent leurs vœux, ils font une promesse devant Jéhovah et devant les personnes présentes. Ils se promettent de s’aimer, de se chérir et de se respecter l’un l’autre aussi longtemps qu’ils vivront ensemble sur la terre dans le cadre du mariage tel qu’il a été institué par Dieu. Quelles que soient les paroles exactes que les mariés se disent, dans tous les cas, ce sont des vœux faits devant Jéhovah. En les faisant, ils deviennent mari et femme. Le mariage doit être une union pour toute la vie (Genèse 2:24 ; 1 Corinthiens 7:39). Jésus a dit que personne ne doit séparer ce que Jéhovah a uni (Marc 10:9). Un homme et une femme qui se marient ne doivent pas se dire que, si leur union ne marche pas, ils pourront toujours divorcer.
      Bien sûr, il n’y a pas de mariage parfait puisqu’il n’y a pas d’humain parfait. C’est pourquoi la Bible dit que toute personne mariée aura parfois « des tribulations (des problèmes) » (1 Corinthiens 7:28). Dans le monde d’aujourd’hui, beaucoup ne prennent pas le mariage au sérieux. Ils pensent : « Si ça ne marche pas, on pourra toujours divorcer. » Mais les chrétiens ne considèrent pas le mariage de cette façon. Ils sont conscients qu’ils ont prononcé leur vœu de mariage devant Jéhovah. S’ils cassaient leur vœu, ce serait comme s’ils lui mentaient. Or Jéhovah déteste les menteurs ! (Lévitique 19:12 ; Proverbes 6:16-19). Les chrétiens mariés doivent se rappeler ces paroles de l’apôtre Paul : « Es-tu lié à une femme ? Cesse (arrête) de chercher à t’en détacher » (1 Corinthiens 7:27). Paul a pu dire cela parce qu’il savait que Jéhovah déteste aussi les divorces quand ils sont des trahisons (Malaki 2:13-16).
      Jésus a enseigné que la seule situation qui donne une raison de divorcer, c’est lorsqu’un mari ou une femme commet l’adultère (est infidèle à son conjoint) et que le conjoint innocent décide de ne pas lui pardonner (Matthieu 19:9 ; Hébreux 13:4). Par ailleurs, peut-on se séparer de son conjoint ? La Bible est claire à ce sujet aussi (lire 1 Corinthiens 7:10, 11). Il n’existe pas de raison biblique de se séparer de son conjoint. Mais parfois un chrétien (ou une chrétienne) pense que c’est absolument nécessaire. Par exemple, il est sûr que sa vie ou sa relation avec Jéhovah seront en très grand danger s’il reste avec un conjoint violent.
      Si des conjoints demandent conseil aux anciens de la congrégation pour rendre leur couple plus solide, les anciens pourraient leur demander s’ils ont regardé la vidéo Qu’est-ce que le vrai amour ? et s’ils ont étudié la brochure Le secret des familles heureuses. Ces documents montrent quels principes bibliques peuvent rendre un mariage plus solide. Des Témoins racontent : « Depuis que nous étudions cette brochure, notre couple est plus heureux que jamais. » Une sœur mariée depuis 22 ans pensait que son mariage allait bientôt se briser. Mais elle a regardé la vidéo. Elle raconte : « Nous sommes tous les deux baptisés, mais sur le plan affectif nous étions complètement différents. La vidéo est arrivée au bon moment ! Maintenant, notre couple va beaucoup mieux. » Vraiment, si un mari et une femme appliquent les conseils de Jéhovah, leur union devient plus heureuse et plus forte.
      LE VŒU DES SERVITEURS SPÉCIAUX À PLEIN TEMPS
      Au début de l’article, nous avons parlé des vœux de Yiphtah et de Hanna. Grâce à ces vœux, la fille de Yiphtah et le fils de Hanna ont passé leur vie à servir Jéhovah d’une façon spéciale. À notre époque, beaucoup de parents chrétiens ont encouragé leurs enfants à s’engager dans le ministère à plein temps et à concentrer leur vie sur le service pour Jéhovah. En fait, nous pouvons tous encourager ces jeunes frères et sœurs à tenir bon dans leur service (Juges 11:40 ; Psaume 110:3).
      Aujourd’hui, il y a des dizaines de milliers de membres de l’Ordre international des serviteurs spéciaux à plein temps des Témoins de Jéhovah. Certains servent au Béthel, ou dans l’activité de construction ou alors dans le service de la circonscription. D’autres sont formateurs aux écoles bibliques, pionniers spéciaux, missionnaires, ou serviteurs affectés à une Salle d’assemblées ou à un centre d’écoles bibliques. Ils ont tous fait un « Vœu d’obéissance et de pauvreté ». En le faisant, ils ont promis de concentrer leurs efforts sur toute activité qu’on leur donne au service de Jéhovah, d’avoir une vie simple, et de ne pas avoir un emploi payé s’ils n’en ont pas l’autorisation. Ce ne sont pas les personnes qui sont considérées comme spéciales, mais leurs activités. Ces chrétiens sont humbles, et ils sont décidés à s’acquitter de leur vœu tout le temps qu’ils resteront dans le service spécial à plein temps.
      Dans cet article, nous avons étudié trois vœux qu’un chrétien pourrait faire aujourd’hui à Jéhovah. Peut-être que tu en as fait un, ou deux, ou les trois. Nous savons que nous devons prendre nos vœux au sérieux et tout faire pour les respecter (Proverbes 20:25). Si nous ne respectons pas nos vœux faits à Jéhovah, les conséquences risquent d’être graves (Ecclésiaste 5:6). Faisons donc comme le psalmiste qui a dit à Jéhovah : « Je veux exécuter des mélodies pour ton nom à jamais (pour toujours), pour m’acquitter de mes vœux jour après jour » (Psaume 61:8).


      · 0 replies
    • K625XM

      Hello Twyla,
      I am not able to view the study materials.  Can you help me out pls ?  Thank you.
      · 0 replies
    • Claud's Lst  »  misette

      Bonjour ma sœur Misette. Comment vas-tu ? J'espère avec l'aide de Jéhovah toute la communauté et especialement toi vont bien. 
      Je n'ai pas reçu la réunion de cette semaine, est-ce qu'il y a un problème pour cette semaine ? 
           Bonne journée ou soirée 
                                   Agape 
      · 3 replies
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