What does not passing the collection plate really mean anyway?

[TrueTomHarley]

8 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

What do they have to show for the consolidation of kh's, in particular the ones paid for by the cong and dissolved by the wt? did the wt give the cong their money back? nope. Why not? I mean they paid for it themselves and not from a wt loan. What they did get was a big "thank you, now move along to the kh we tell you to go to now.

Not only do I agree with you emphatically, but I think all congregation members should have black leather jackets with the name of their congregation emblazoned on the back. Come now.

If your focus is to be a 'Little House on the Prairie' church, your viewpoint is fine. But if you are serious about carrying out Christ's commission to preach 'this good news of the kingdom throughout the inhabited earth,' you have no problem with effective organization. In fact, you thank God for it, since it enables the most' bang for the buck' globally.

Primarily, it is not about us. Most gripers here think that it is. It is about the sanctification of God's name and the realization of his purposes.

[Shiwiii]

26 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If your focus is to be a 'Little House on the Prairie' church, your viewpoint is fine. But if you are serious about carrying out Christ's commission to preach 'this good news of the kingdom throughout the inhabited earth,' you have no problem with effective organization. In fact, you thank God for it, since it enables the most' bang for the buck' globally.

Primarily, it is not about us. Most gripers here think that it is. It is about the sanctification of God's name and the realization of his purposes.

And exactly how much money does it cost to speak to someone? None. There is a reason why "religion is a snare and a racket", there is a reason why we are told not to worship riches, etc.

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

And exactly how much money does it cost to speak to someone? None. There is a reason why "religion is a snare and a racket", there is a reason why we are told not to worship riches, etc.

If your only goal is to get people to say "Accept the Lord and be Saved" to their immediate neighbors, not too much. In that case, go to the churches who emphasize money much more than us and ask for it back, since some of them have achieved only that small goal, despite (or because of) a paid clergy.

[Shiwiii]

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If your only goal is to get people to say "Accept the Lord and be Saved" to their immediate neighbors, not too much. In that case, go to the churches who emphasize money much more than us and ask for it back, since some of them have achieved only that small goal, despite (or because of) a paid clergy.

I don't pay to play so there are no churches that have my money. If you think that CO's and Do's don't get paid (green handshakes) then you obviously haven't been told the whole story. Do they get paid handsomely, nope, but paid none the less. To be honest, I really don't care who gets paid for what, I'm just not a fan of saying one thing and condemning other's for what you are doing also.  

[TrueTomHarley]

4 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

If you think that CO's and Do's don't get paid (green handshakes) then you obviously haven't been told the whole story.

Oh. So now generosity is wrong, too? 

Would you be content with that relationship with your employer? - hope that you may get a 'green handshake?'

[Shiwiii]

14 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Oh. So now generosity is wrong, too? 

Would you be content with that relationship with your employer? - hope that you may get a 'green handshake?'

quit making excuses, your cognitive dissonance is showing. 

[TrueTomHarley]

Would you be content with that relationship with your employer? - hope that you may get a 'green handshake?' @Shiwiii

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

There are MANY people who choose to work for a nebulous "green handshake" ... notably real estate agents who work on commission ... and speculation, both at the same time.

I took a serious cut in pay one time because the job offered adventure, in the Congo.

Infinite variety.

I used to be a freelance photographer doing work ENTIRELY on speculation .... I only got paid if they LIKED my photos.

Infinite variety.

HINT: never dive into a river from a cliff with a knife held in your teeth.

[Shiwiii]

Hey, wasn't there something about money in this weeks meeting? Something about the average amount a publisher should be contributing? And you say they don't ask for money.......lol

[TrueTomHarley]

52 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Hey, wasn't there something about money in this weeks meeting? Something about the average amount a publisher should be contributing? And you say they don't ask for money.......lol

What is it with your infantile obsession over this? Do you expect me to gasp at discovering they know what money is?

In your 'secret letter' that you gleefully post, you somehow manage to ignore how the elders may choose to adjust any contribution total up or down depending upon the economic abilities of the congregation. Nobody running an organization puts less emphasis on specific money donations than does the Watchtower. 

More telling is the fact that, at that same meeting, finances were atypically discussed at length, yet you somehow do not even notice it: From the God's Kingdom Rules book, the subject has, at long last, got around to 'how the work is funded':

ON ONE occasion, Brother Charles T. Russell was approached by a minister of the Reformed Church who wanted to know how the activities of the Bible Students were managed.

“We never take up a collection,” explained Brother Russell.

“How do you get the money?” asked the minister.

“If I tell you what is the simplest truth you will hardly be able to believe it,” replied Russell. “When people get interested in this way, they find no basket placed under their nose. But they see there are expenses. They say to themselves, ‘This hall costs something . . . How can I get a little money into this thing?’”

The minister looked at Brother Russell in disbelief.

“I am telling you the plain truth,” continued Russell. “They do ask me this very question, ‘How can I get a little money into this cause?’ When one gets a blessing and has any means, he wants to use it for the Lord. If he has no means, why should we prod him for it?” *

² Brother Russell was indeed telling “the plain truth.” God’s people have a long history of making voluntary contributions to support true worship. In this chapter, we will examine some Scriptural examples of this along with our modern-day history. As we consider how Kingdom activities are being financed today, each of us would do well to ask, ‘How can I show my support for the Kingdom?’

And there is much more. Whereas you do not hesitate to publish confidential letters, I am reluctant to publish excerpts from public books out of regard for copyright law. I don't think I have done it before. I do so now only to address your childish tantrum. Of course any organization uses money - any ten-year-old knows it . The real point is that no one seeks it less obtrusively or stewards it more wisely, even with techniques that your colleague in arms, @James Thomas Rook Jr., rails about, coming from the other side, where he tries to portray wise stewardship as stealing 'his' Kingdom Hall. He didn't really 'give' anything, did he? He just put his assets in another pot that he wants not to let go of. 

Your leaked letter makes us look good, not bad, as you have hoped. An ungodly organization would say "put the screws to them, no matter what!" Ours says "the elders may choose to raise or lower the amount based on the economic abilities of the congregation." And should their goal comes up short nonetheless, they simply readjust the goal, confident that those of greater means will make up for the deficiency of those of lesser means.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

54 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

quit making excuses, your cognitive dissonance is showing. 

And please do not quote this cognitive dissonance nonsense, for it is no more than:

'You do not agree with me. Therefore you must be suffering massive cognitive dissonance.'

[Shiwiii]

3 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What is it with your infantile obsession over this? Do you expect me to gasp at discovering they know what money is?

In your 'secret letter' that you gleefully post, you somehow manage to ignore how the elders may choose to adjust any contribution total up or down depending upon the economic abilities of the congregation. Nobody running an organization puts less emphasis on specific money donations than does the Watchtower. 

More telling is the fact that, at that same meeting, finances were atypically discussed at length, yet you somehow do not even notice it: From the God's Kingdom Rules book, the subject has, at long last, got around to 'how the work is funded':

ON ONE occasion, Brother Charles T. Russell was approached by a minister of the Reformed Church who wanted to know how the activities of the Bible Students were managed.

“We never take up a collection,” explained Brother Russell.

“How do you get the money?” asked the minister.

“If I tell you what is the simplest truth you will hardly be able to believe it,” replied Russell. “When people get interested in this way, they find no basket placed under their nose. But they see there are expenses. They say to themselves, ‘This hall costs something . . . How can I get a little money into this thing?’”

The minister looked at Brother Russell in disbelief.

“I am telling you the plain truth,” continued Russell. “They do ask me this very question, ‘How can I get a little money into this cause?’ When one gets a blessing and has any means, he wants to use it for the Lord. If he has no means, why should we prod him for it?” *

² Brother Russell was indeed telling “the plain truth.” God’s people have a long history of making voluntary contributions to support true worship. In this chapter, we will examine some Scriptural examples of this along with our modern-day history. As we consider how Kingdom activities are being financed today, each of us would do well to ask, ‘How can I show my support for the Kingdom?’

And there is much more. Whereas you do not hesitate to publish confidential letters, I am reluctant to publish excerpts from public books out of regard for copyright law. I don't think I have done it before. I do so now only to address your childish tantrum. Of course any organization uses money - any ten-year-old knows it . The real point is that no one seeks it less obtrusively or stewards it more wisely, even with techniques that your colleague in arms, @James Thomas Rook Jr., rails about, coming from the other side, where he tries to portray wise stewardship as stealing 'his' Kingdom Hall. He didn't really 'give' anything, did he? He just put his assets in another pot that he wants not to let go of. 

Your leaked letter makes us look good, not bad, as you have hoped. An ungodly organization would say "put the screws to them, no matter what!" Ours says "the elders may choose to raise or lower the amount based on the economic abilities of the congregation." And should their goal comes up short nonetheless, they simply readjust the goal, confident that those of greater means will make up for the deficiency of those of lesser means.

 

what you are failing to grasp is that while YOU say, and they say they do not ask for money, I have just shown you that they DO in fact ask for money. So when you stand on your soapbox and proclaim just how much better the wt is because they don't ask for money, just shows how hypocritical they really are.