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[TrueTomHarley]

52 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So Tom show some sense of humor on what i was smiled. But only on one part. On other part can not.

I'm not sure what terrible thing I said. John said of those who went out in the first century, 'they were not of our sort.' So of someone who 'went out' in the modern day, he would say that they were?

[TrueTomHarley]

23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But if it is so in USA (not meaning nothing bad with this) than i can now finally understand all about WT organization

Someone said somewhere: 'what you are doing, get done more quickly,' so you almost wish that if someone is going to leave the faith, they would have done it long ago. That way they do not carry on about being misled or even brainwashed. Why do they not leave quicker?

Does one become a Witness through brainwashing? If so, there are far better examples. College is foremost among them. The student is separated almost 24/7 on campus from all that is familiar to him or her. In contrast, on the pathway to become a Witness, you will go to two meetings a week and have a personal Bible study which lasts an hour or two per weekly session. And you'll get to know people and cultivate new relationships in exactly the same way you would cultivate new relationships anywhere else. A special event or two and that's it. 95% of the time you are in the same well-trod territory you have always been in.

Moreover, nothing about the way God uses a human agency to direct his people is ever hidden. It is manifest from day one. So it seems disingenuous to grouse about being misled. Instead, one simply reassesses matters over time. They decide the cost is too high and the reason for paying it too nebulous or far off. They depart because they were 'not of our sort' and because they decide that they like this system of things after all, or at least do not dislike it enough to keep such distance.

An exception would be those raised in the faith. They never did see both sides. Or, rather, to the extent most of them saw both sides, it was both sides presented through the eyes of the theocratic organization, which hardly represents the other side as that side would represent itself. How to solve this?

I don't know. It may already be solved to the extent it can be. The reason Obi-wan does not want Luke to go over into the dark side is that he really thinks it is the dark side. He is not trying to control Luke. He is not trying to deprive him of anything. He is looking out for him. He truly believes the dark side is bad, and he doesn't say 'why don't you go over there and roam around for a while so you can make an informed choice.'

So it is with the GB. Charges that they try to control people are so juvenile, so adolescent, that they are hard to countenance. How could anybody be so stupid? No. They truly believe the theocratic side is good and the other side is - well - the dark side. Though that viewpoint is objectionable to some, it is exactly how the Bible presents matters. I don't know how you get around it, or if you even want to, though it does result in the problems mentioned above. 

Furthermore, if the GB ever 'misrepresents' the non-Witness world, it is not because they are sinister. It is because they don't know it themselves. They take their own counsel, which is the Bible's counsel, and they don't go there. They are lowly people who have poured themselves out and who now find themselves in places that are 'high for them.' They don't puff themselves up over it. They trust in God and actually, like the kings of old supposedly did, read their Bibles daily. They keep away from what is 'falsely called knowledge' and from 'empty philosophies that violate what is holy and toss people about as though the waves of the sea.' They have run their own lives with the lesson of Haggai ever foremost - 'clean will be contaminated by unclean,' not the reverse - and so they don't go there. Because they don't go there, they know it only through the lens of Scripture.

If the Bible says, in effect, that the 'world will chew you up and spit you out,' they assume that it does. if they find someone who says exactly those words, they eat it right up and broadcast it. And who is to say the words are untrue? Some get chewed up and spit out so decisively and quickly that no one would ever deny it, but with others? Who is to say the scriptures are wrong on that point? It may just take a longer time to get chewed up and spit out. Certainly the one out of ten senior citizens from the other post might have come to think that, seeing everything they had worked for drained away.

[INTREPID TRAVELLER]

I also endured Detention in Military prison for 14 months Srecko - I don't regret the experience because I also learned a lot about myself and about others while in prison. 

But we found out later that brothers are allowed to take alternative service now ......"New Light" . 

This is an organization that enjoys having people being persecuted because it "markets" their goals ~ 

[b4ucuhear]

On 2017-10-05 at 10:00 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

An exception would be those raised in the faith. They never did see both sides.

An interesting observation I had to wrestle with before leaving, experiencing the world and then coming back again. So ineffect, I had to learn the "hard way" that Satans system and allurements were not what they appeared to be. That is not to say all is well within either. (I have seen the bad things that can happen and at times it's far more than just "imperfections" that seem to be our go-to response to these matters - but that's another story). 

In leaving the truth (for over 10 years) to try to see things more objectively - to see things without a JW lens, asking questions (and actually living a VERY worldly lifestyle) I came to a realization at one point that there was no real future in this system. It was a garbage can painted to look like gold. So I did a more earnest study of different religions, but I always had to come back to one fundamental question that could have saved me a lot of time. What did Jesus say would identify his true followers? Did the answer really require the lengths I was going to, to sift through all that garbage? John 13:34, 35 was what did it for me. How can you be fulfilling this requirement and killing your same brothers in war? How can you love even your enemies by killing them and their children in war? That really narrowed things down for me. 

Still, I wondered how would someone/me narrow it down further? Be exposed to different questions I may not have thought of asking? Or points of view that were foreign to me that I may have neglected to consider? Or even contrary to what I believed? How could the "scientific method" of thesis, antithesis and synthesis be practically applied? How could I be exposed to all this important information? The answer was simple and obvious: be active in the ministry. That is an acid test. People will express their views to you, uncoloured by a JW lens - directly from their perspective and it is up to you then to weigh the evidence in your reply. If your reply carries scriptural weight it will reinforce your beliefs. If not it will weaken them or require further research. So someone raised in the truth doesn't really need to waste years of searching. They just need to get down to doing what every Christian should be doing anyways. Preaching to others. 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 10/5/2017 at 16:00, TrueTomHarley said:

"Someone said ......" to the end of comment

I can see Tom your hard working in thinking. You have battle inside you, and that is good. I also see that you still looking at all this through black/white lenses and that is not good.

You mentioned "Witness" and "separated college students" = brainwashed. After reading your text, my conclusion would be that all are brainwashed no matter are they 24/7 or 2/2. You are sure how students are deceived because mount of hours in class, but i will say that WT education program is much effective because they have same result (brainwashed) with only 4 hours a week :))))))))))))))     

"Human agency" aka WT has hidden things, some of them we talk about. "Shepherd  the Flock"  or "Preparing for child custody cases" books are one of them. 

"How could anybody be so stupid? No", you said. People must not to be stupid, but deceiver must be much more clever while making people stupid. :))))))) Deceiver must gain trust from the victim, and one of method is to tell some truth and some half truth, after that false truth will take place.  

you quote: "the 'world will chew you up and spit you out". With power of clever-stupid explanations GB chew up and spit out many Bethelites and pioneers after many years of "faithful service", because economic issue aka - money the god-. Issue of money and power, control over people are always main reason, not "adjustments" to the Truth. In WT terminology, "Adjustments" are made for the goal of hold and gain control over masses of followers.     

 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

So someone raised in the truth doesn't really need to waste years of searching.

Glad to hear your experience, but i will quote your big brother A. Morris III who all this what you told us say in one nonsense statement: "Stick with what we have authorised and you will be saved."

Must i remind you or readers of WT how GB also said:

"We need to obey FDS..."

"WE need to obey any instruction...."

"We are not inspired, we can err in instructional and doctrinal matters ...."   

But anyway ----- "Stick with what we have authorised and you will be saved."

That make me sadly laughing :))))) 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

These are my favorites ... if you disregard the "Tight Pants Tony" comedy.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

On 10/4/2017 at 10:30 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

We do not even NEED a conscience ... EVERYTHING not prohibited ... is required.

Period

[JW Insider]

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"Stick with what we have authorised and you will be saved."

The context was use of the Internet. What he said was: "Be careful on the Internet...I don't know how many times we have to tell you, be careful!...We're just warning you. That's all we can do is admonish . . ..Stick with what we have authorised; you will be safe. You want to go out there? It's at your spiritual risk."

A person who claims to be an apostate has put up just a short snippet here as if it is something more nefarious, but keep it in context and notice that it doesn't say, "you will be saved."

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

25 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Stick with what we have authorised; you will be safe.

Sometimes in life ... you get the Bear ... sometimes the Bear gets you.

In a car group with the smartest brother in my Kingdom Hall, we were discussing all the MASSIVE Internet presence of the Society, nowadays, between return visits, and I mentioned (paraphrased) "Yeah, I remember when anyone who had an Internet connection was called in and chastised ..... " .

He thought for a moment and said " ...... yeah ......".

It is a difficult spot to be in, when the people that occasionally have GOOD ADVICE ... have squandered their credibility on drivel, like TPT has.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

it doesn't say, "you will be saved."

thanks for show me err. ok safe :)))) after we make you you safe you will be saved :))))) end is the same, isn't ? ahahahah 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

( placekeeper for some incredibly wise comment, if I should think of one later....)