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Saying "Peace and Security!" before sudden destruction. (1Th 5:3) What does it mean?


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18 minutes ago, John Houston said:

The increase in security at train stations, bus terminals all over the world show a heightened sense for the need of PEACE AND SECURITY. And since what happenings after is like a thief, we have been lulled to accept all of these things as daily occurrences. Any disaster caused by man against man is shocking but wanes after time, for we are waiting on the next horrific one.

That's another way to look at it.

[edited to add:] I think it actually fits the mental attitude of those who would claim we have peace and security in our time. Because there is no TRUE peace and security -- at least not for the majority of mankind. Many people also tend to think too positively and optimistically. Scientists study the potential effects of water shortages, climate change, famine, disease, and their data shows extreme danger, but in an interview or a summary of the same data there is a tendency to say, "Oh but I'm sure we'll be OK; someone will find a solution in time." This is done for decade after decade while things just keep getting closer to complete disaster. I think this is also a bit like being lulled into acceptance of disasters where the shock value wanes after so many.

It shows that we don't really know how bad things will be before the end. A recent Watchtower on the subject said something interesting, too:

*** w15 8/15 p. 15 par. 7 Keep in Expectation! ***

  • But how bad do you expect conditions to become before “the great tribulation”? (Rev. 7:14) For example, do you expect that there will be a war in every country, no food on anyone’s table, and illness in every household? Under those conditions, even skeptics would likely feel compelled to admit that Bible prophecy was undergoing fulfillment. However, Jesus said that most people would take “no note” of his presence, carrying on with life’s normal activities until it is too late. (Read Matthew 24:37-39.) Thus, the Scriptures indicate that world conditions during the last days would not become so extreme that people would be forced to believe that the end is near.—Luke 17:20; 2 Pet. 3:3, 4.

So the idea you presented could fit this too. But it implies that people would be crying for peace and security instead of just "saying" peace and security as the original text behind the scripture shows. I think the Greek can just as well support the translation like the NLT:

  • When people are saying, “Everything is peaceful and secure,” then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman’s labor pains begin. And there will be no escape.

The Bible just says they are "saying" (lego) not crying, not calling out, etc.

That fits the idea of a sudden surprise destruction that Jesus spoke of when he mentioned how the people "took no note" before the Flood suddenly swept them away, or in the days of Lot when the people appeared to have no warning at all and then one day, the "fire" suddenly swept them away.

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Perhaps a technical point, but the Watchtower Officers during WWI were charged and convicted of sedition against the United States of America ... because they were GUILTY of sedition against the Unite

Like Tonto said to the Lone Ranger, when surrounded by enemy Indians, and Kemosabe said "What do we do NOW, Tonto?" Tonto replied "What you mean "We", white man?" Yes, WWI actually ended.

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When ISIS came on the scene, the videos of beheadings were shocking to many, the world was in a tizzy for all the things this group did. But now they are truly an irritant, claiming things that are done of their business just to stay on the radar of the mainstream media. The change is there, but not a cry, it will never be a cry. The world scene will have many askew toward this one mentality and if we as people discerning these things from scriptural perspective are not careful, as a thief we will be caught unawares. Going about the things of our daily life, trying to survive, health issues, high cost of living standards, even depressed spirit for the length of time, our own endurance will come under attack. So we must stay busy, pray constantly, incessantly, fervently, to Jehovah for the strength to persevere and continue through these final last days!

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2 minutes ago, John Houston said:

Going about the things of our daily life, trying to survive, health issues, high cost of living standards, even depressed spirit for the length of time, our own endurance will come under attack. So we must stay busy, pray constantly, incessantly, fervently, to Jehovah for the strength to persevere and continue through these final last days!

I think you just hit upon a very likely meaning of the verse. We've heard the counsel that it seems easier sometimes to endure persecution because we are focused on just that one thing, remaining faithful through the trouble. But when the persecution stops, more people lose focus and find it harder to remain faithful. Perhaps it's similar to one of the ideas in Matthew 6:

  • (Matthew 6:22) 22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is focused, your whole body will be bright.
  • (Matthew 6:25) . . .On this account I say to you: Stop being anxious about your lives as to what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your bodies as to what you will wear. Does not life mean more than food and the body than clothing?

     

     

 

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5 hours ago, john simumba said:

Your arguments have been read.They can only be one correct argument.Now when Jehovah rids of this earths wickedness and the wicked according to the standards he has put forth in the bible and if all of us on this forum meet in the new system which is not likely then all arguments shall be settled.

The Apostle Paul spoke about fruitless arguments that only are a result of ones showy display of what they think they know.History is replete with high minded people.Jehovah abhors the haughty

Yes, there can only be one correct argument.  Are you including the Governing Body in this, since many here ascribe to the the GB's teaching that the cry of "peace and security" is found in the political world? 

“Be on your guard against false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.  You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  So you’ll recognize them by their fruit."  Matt 7:15-20

“Trees” represent the anointed ones; fruit is what they teach.  Heb 13:15  If one teaches “bad fruit” it means that one is a false prophet.  Any teachings that lead people in the wrong direction spiritually, is considered “bad fruit”; not “new light”.  Eph 5:9; 1 Tim 6:20,21

“You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give you.”  John 15:16

Losch said, “a lie is a falsehood that is deliberately presented as being true”.  If this is the case, why are Watchtower’s changed doctrines called “new light” and “present truth”?  If one chooses to reject the GB’s “bad fruit”, their high mindedness becomes quite apparent.

As you say, “The Apostle Paul spoke about fruitless arguments that only are a result of ones showy display of what they think they know.”

“The ax is already at the root of the trees. Therefore, every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. “ Matt 3:10

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9 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Which part of the political world don't you understand the formation of the United Nations? Or are you suggesting in your Malay, that the UN is a church? In the other hand, how many here ascribe to your teaching and understanding, among other things by "pretenders" of the same faith.

I understand Watchtower's teaching of the cry of "peace and security", I also understand what the Bible attributes it to.  Looking at Satan's world for signs of "peace and security" and Armageddon, is just what he wants you to do.  Not very deceptive is it?  Matt 16:1-4

As I said earlier in response to Eoin, you can find my comment under "controversy".

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6 minutes ago, john simumba said:

Mr. Administrator please please please remove my account from this forum.Darkness and Light cannot mix..Whoever knows they are in light should immediately close their accounts.The bible warns all of us not to be sharers with demons.Can you conduct a study to a demon or teach the truth to an apostate?'My people move out of Babylon the great and do not touch anything that represents her....'

The following are submitted without comment .....

Russell Passport Application  500 .jpg

RutherfordPassport 500 .jpg

KnorrPassportaa 500 .jpg

KnorrPassportaa 500 .jpg

HenschelPassport  500 .jpg

FFranzPassport 500 .jpg

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1 minute ago, AllenSmith said:

Meanwhile, I will do my darndest to continue being the town crier! Regardless if I get deleted for saying the truth.

I suspect that you get deleted, not because you speak the truth ... but because you speak whatever it is with a mouth full of venom ... not for ideas ... but for individual Brothers ...

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Allen, with respect to your FIRST accusation ... which by the way, PROVES the point I was making :

Who is James T. Rook, Jr.   - 500   -    .jpg

Your selective quoting was specifically designed to be a slander to either him or me.  Here is his reply, which was posted WITH the above question ... but that you deliberately left out in order to mislead.

" Dear Reader,

I get many comments about Brother Rook. I think maybe his American “style” and brutal honesty at times can set Europeans and others “on edge” to say the least.

I think most just lack the ability to understand his humor.  Especially the French. (j/k… you all know I love France… I’d live there if I could)

Humor has never translated well into other languages. Brother Rook, has been around here for years now and has many insights and life experience to share as well as “keeping me and other editors on here honest” with fact checking etc. (He is not one to take a story at face-value)

He wasn’t being disrespectful.

Agape!

The Librarian

p.s. - To be honest, Rook has come close to irritating me a few times… there was one day a while back when EVERY COMMENT for like a week was some sarcastic witty ‘something" and I was in a bad mood without eating for awhile. But in the end, Love is what? “long-suffering, kind, does not look for it’s own interests….” you get the idea.

Most days though he calls it like it is.

“Keep putting up with one another”….. I think I have a talk about that somewhere…. ;-)"

In making the comparison ... Arther Godfrey was a HIGHLY respected Television host in the 1950's, and the Librarian was right ... I was NOT being disrespectful ... AND he correctly discerned that it was merely an attempt on my part to be FUNNY.

Since you do not HAVE a sense of humor, naturally both points were lost on you, AllenSmith.

4 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

So, whats the difference with passports?

First of all, the photos I posted of the GB at the time were not passports ... they were passport APPLICATIONS, and on each and every one the GB swore allegiance to the Constitution of the United States, and solemnly swore, before God, to defend it against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

If you or I had done that, we would be disfellowshipped.

Think of it ... the leadership of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society swearing before God to protect and DEFEND the Constitution against the likes of Adolph Hitler, Josef Stalin, Emperor Hirohito, and any others seeking to overthrow the Constitution.

That does NOT involve reading them scriptures from behind a bullet scarred concrete wall.

THE DIFFERENCE between that, and the NRA ... is that I have not sworn allegiance to the Constitution, and the NRA has not asked me to, and will not ask me to.

The WTB&TS Leadership has not only sworn allegiance to the Constitution, but solemnly sworn to DEFEND IT! .... against all enemies.

ONE of those "enemies" is Jehovah God, who will will overthrow it, and install his Christ as King.

What's wrong with THAT picture?

And AllenSmith ... these facts are not an attack on you ... they are an attack on your goofy perspective.

You are probably OTHERWISE a very fine Brother ... whereas all I claim to be is a Barbarian interested in Justice and Fairness.

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10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Let's pretend we are not referring to the human race, that the bible is referring to.

 

Firstly, where you "reside" in the organization is your false sense of spiritual "peace" and "security".  I have said quite a bit already earlier, and in the post I directed you to.  

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

How will this be accomplished in your mind?

“So he answered me, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by strength (of men) or by might (of men), but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord of Armies.   Zech 4:7

 

 

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