Does death really erase sins?

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

Referring to those cities that would not listen to the message, Jesus said that on the Day of Judgment he would be more bearable to Sodom and Gomorrah than to them - Matt. 10:14, 15; Matthew 11: 20-24

Before saying that he used a hyperbole, we would think about another writing.
Matthew 12:36 says, "I tell you that any unprofitable word that men will say will account in the Day of Judgment."
If we only read what has been written without seeking articulated interpretations, it is well understood that "they have said" is in the past, referring of course to what has been said in this life and not what they could have said in the future (in fact, Jesus he is condemning the Pharisees who have just asserted that He drives out demons by Beelzebub).
Let's think about one last writing.
In 2 Timothy 4:14, the Apostle Paul said, "  Alexander the coppersmith did me a great deal of harm. Jehovah will repay him according to his deeds "
Jehovah would have repay his works when?
Before his death, that is in the first century?
Did Jehovah perhaps intervened to punish all persecutors of Christians in the first century?
Is it not clear that the Apostle Paul is saying that Jehovah would remember the actions of this Alexander on the Day of Judgment?

The fundamental question is therefore the following:

We are certain that when the apostle Paul spoke the words in Romans 6: 7, he meant what we believe he understood?

 

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

I tell you that men will render an account+ on Judgment Day for every unprofitable saying that they speak" - Matthew 12:36

"They speak" is to the present, that is to say, "that they have said now in this life".

This means that men will realize in the day of judgment (or in the future) of the profane words that have been said now in this life.

I do not know how it translates into English, but the meaning is clear and are two distinct times.

Alexander the coppersmith did me a great deal of harm. Jehovah* will repay him according to his deeds - 2 Timothy 4:14

The coppersmith caused many pains to Paul and Jehovah "he will ask for account" in the future, or on the day of judgment - Romans 14:10
Those who have no preconceptions do not seek articulated explanations.
The message is clear

 

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

Death really erases the sins?

 

One consequence of the fact that the resurrection takes place at the end of the millennium is asking the question of what basis will be judged resurrected .

So far we have been taught that the resurrected would be judged based on what they would do after their resurrection , that is, over a long period in the kingdom of Christ.

The apostle Paul once said ... "I have hope toward God ... that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous" - Acts 24:15

Because Paul harbored the hope that there was a resurrection for the unjust who, if they were only judged by their past actions, would then killed?

Probably these "rolls" will contain many details of the life of people and perhaps will add detailed instructions on how to proceed, evaluating and mitigating the causes, and it is reasonable to believe that there might also be a probationary time for at least some of them.

We have no particular about it, but Jehovah is the Righteous Judge and certainly will make sure that all those worthy have a chance to live and be happy - Compare Matthew 10:15 and Luke 10:13, 14

However, the Bible book of Revelation teaches that the resurrection will occur at the end of the millennium and not during, and so we must acquiesce to the Scriptures.

The writing is said that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were not finished - Revelation 20: 5

" As long as" means "up to the moment when" and not "during" and this would appear to suggest that these thousand years, elected would reign on the survivors of Armageddon and their families but not on any resurrected.

The same term, "long" used in Matthew 1:25, we always used to demonstrate, to supporters of virginity of Mary, Joseph had no intercourse with his wife until the birth of the child (and this indicates that after this birth Mary and Joseph consummated marriage as any other married couple).

This should be enough to prove that the resurrection will occur after the end of the millennium , a concept that seems to be repeated in verses 12 and 13.

If this is correct, how should we understand the words of Paul described in Romans 6: 7 that "he who has died has been acquitted from their sins"?

If the death has been absolved from sin ... why then it was judged on the Day of Judgment, or the resurrection, according to the things written in the scrolls?

This apparent contradiction has led to think that the Day of Judgment would take place in reality throughout the millennial reign of Christ and will be judged on what people would have done during this period .

The duration of the kingdom of Christ would be in harmony with the concept of "day" expressed in the Scriptures - II Peter 3: 8

Death erases really sin?

However, analyzing the context of Romans chapter 6 it is not clear at all that the Judgment does not occur on the basis of what has been done when he was alive.

Paul, in fact, speaking of the anointed says he "died with reference to sin" and who were baptized into Christ's death.

He also says that they were "buried with him" by baptism and that baptism constituted, in effect, a "newness of life."

It 'clear that Paul is using figurative language because no Christian, anointed or not, is buried with Christ .

In other words it seems that Paul is saying that only sin no more, that is proving to be dead about life previous sinful and demonstrating faith in the ransom sacrifice of Christ , it is free from judgment.

Verse 8 also says "we have died with Christ" and "we believe that we shall also live with him" but of course Paul was not really dead, or with Christ or to anyone else.

He and several others had died compared to their previous life and now lived a "newness of life".

Having decided to be dead from the previous life he and the others had been "delivered from their sin."

This is in harmony with the words of Jesus when he said that those who would listen to his word and exercised faith in Him would not go to trial - John 5:24

Also, if the death sin was canceled, how should we understand the words of Revelation 6:10?

In this scripture it speaks of the souls of the just who apply to be vindicated, but it is assumed that the perpetrators of these Christians have died long ago.

If the death the sin of the perpetrators has been extinguished ... on what basis can they cry out revenge? And who should retaliate this revenge if there are no more sinners? Even other writings help to shed light on this aspect.

Referring to those cities who would not have heard the message, Jesus said that on the Day of Judgment would be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for them - Matthew 10:14, 15; Matthew 11: 20-24

Why it would be more "tolerable" for Sodom and Gomorrah O Tire and Sidon, though the death sin would be canceled and the resurrection would all again from scratch?

In the same principle we can reason about what is said in Revelation 14:13.

The writing refers to Christians and says, "Happy are the dead ... because the things they did go right with them."

If good things are retained in Jehovah's memory even after death, it is not reasonable to believe that this happens for the rest?

Matthew 12:36 says, "I tell you that every word unprofitable that men have said give account on the Day of Judgment."

If we read only what is written without trying articulated interpretations, you understand that "have said" is the past, of course, referring to what has been said in this life and not what they could mean in the future (in fact, Jesus He is condemning the Pharisees who have just asserted that he drive out demons by Beelzebub).

Of this they realized the Day of Judgment.

In Matthew 23: 33-36 Jesus condemns the nation of Israel, especially the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy and violence and says "that is on you all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you assassinaste between the sanctuary and the altar. "

How could anyone ask for the blood of Abel and of all those who died later if their murderers were dead and then become sinless?

In 2 Timothy 4:14 the apostle Paul said, "Alexander the coppersmith has brought me much evil - Jehovah will repay him according to his works."

Jehovah would have made according to his works when?

Before his death, that is, in the first century?

Perhaps Jehovah intervened to punish all the persecutors of Christians in the first century?

Is it not clear that the apostle Paul is saying that Jehovah would remember the works of this Alessandro on Judgment Day?

From these writings it is clear that death does not automatically delete the sin but I will only do the Jehovah's Judgment - Compare Revelation 18: 5

As Romans 6:23 says the wages sin pays is death, and so, even if the death repay the debt, they need to remain in death .

This means that their eventual resurrection, however, should answer for their sins because, indeed, have not remained in that condition.

In fact the word "salary" and "pays" fit perfectly into this concept.

If because of my debts I had to sell my property (so paying back my debts) can not take back what I sold.

If i resuming the money I sold the property just to eradicate that debt , I would be back in debt.

The only way to recover those properties in a lawful is that someone pay instead of me giving me back the properties .

In fact the writing of Romans 6:23 ends with the words ... "but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."

Christ paid the debt for us, allowing us to not remain in death or giving back the life that we had legally lost - Compare Matthew 18: 23-27

However this seems to suggest that the Day of Judgment will not automatically mean the destruction of sinners, and it is probably no coincidence that Jesus used the word "bear" - Matthew 10:15

By harmonizing the words of Paul, who harbored the hope that there would be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, we can assume that it will be a period which governs, in extreme cases will lead to ultimate death, while everyone else will consist in a probationary period, more or less long and more or less hard, which will aim to achieve salvation - Compare Matthew 5:25, 26

There are many indications about it and then we do not go beyond what is written but in fact the book Revelation makes it clear that the resurrection will occur at the end of the millennium (not during), and that people will be judged on what you You are found written.

How they will weigh the individual sins of each individual is not known, but we are grateful that Christ Jesus to judge and not a simple man!

He being the image of God, we can be sure that his judgment will be just and right - Deuteronomy 32: 4; John 5:21, 22; 8:15, 16

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

.... soon enough .... we will all know.

Scholarly analysis of how many angels can dance on the point of a ball-point pen produce nothing useful, except scratch an itch ... and many people scratch until it bleeds, and do that until it goes cancerous.

soon enough ... perhaps too soon ... WE WILL ALL KNOW.

No matter WHAT the case is ..... knowing will NOT change it.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

I have to apologize for my English who is not good.

While using the translator, the translation is inaccurate and the speech becomes confusing.

From what you write I seem to understand that you have explained the meaning of the phrase "to be buried with Christ" but I have not discussed this.

I do not argue that "being buried with Christ" has a profound meaning and many implications. I agree with this.

I have written that "buried with Christ" is not literally, is not it?

I wrote that Paul is using a symbolic language that needs to be understood and therefore even when he says "whoever is dead has been absolved of his sin" we must make an effort to understand what he meant.

If we go on reading Paul's talk, he understands that he is saying that since we have accepted the truth, we are all dead with sin.

We are dead "in relation to sin" and this means that we renounced our previous life (made of carnal desires, lusts, etc.).

In practice, he says: "If we prove to have died in relation to sin (ie not sinning more) by demonstrating that we appreciate the free gift of Christ, then we are absolved in relation to sin."

this is the "novelty of life" he was talking about.

If we understand the words of Paul, all the words that say that the judged on the Day of Judgment (as Jesus' words concerning Tire and Sidon, or when he spoke against the scribes and the Pharisees) are clear, and it is also clear why Paul said that Jehovah would have asked "Alexander the coppersmith" for the sufferings that he had brought to him.

Also one thing must be clear.

The belief that "death erases sins" collides with the doctrine of Christ's redemption.

Is death to erase sin, or is the blood of Christ? - compare Revelation 7:14

Note also the beautiful contrast that Paul does: "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift which God gives is everlasting life + by Christ Jesus our Lord" - Romans 6:23

Eternal life is only obtained through the forgiveness (or deletion) of sins. We agree on this, is not it? - compare John 5:24

If death erases sin, then the Lord is not dead for our sins - 2 Corinthians 5:15

Does the Bible contradict?

For these and for other reasons (there are many scriptures that make us realize that death does not erase sins) Paul's speech is well understood. Paul's words must be read in their context.

 

I want it clear that all this discourse does not have the purpose of "cast a shadow" on the people of Jehovah.

Even though it sounds strange, I'm a witness to Jehovah and I firmly believe that this is the truth.

However, they are not of those who think that there are no mistakes and that a doctrine should not be revisited.

Ultimately, the truth is only the Word of God - John 17:17

P.S.

The writing says that the rest of the dead did not come to life "until the time when" the thousand years were not over.

We can discuss whether "coming to life" means reaching eternal life, or merely being resurrected.

Of course, the question is whether Revelation has been written in chronological order or not.

If we read Revelation in chronological order, then the answer is clear: there is no resurrection in the Millennial Kingdom of Christ but only the survivors of Armageddon.

At the end of the thousand years (and only at the end) death and ades return the dead and are therefore judged.

I am certain that if we reflect carefully on the seven seals (which are sequential) on the seven trumpets (which are sequential and in fact, the Apostle Paul calls the "last trumpet" that trumpet concerning the resurrection - I Corinthians 15:53, Revelation 11:15 ) and the "seven bowls of the worm" which are also sequential, we can understand that the Book of Revelation is written in chronological order.

[Space Merchant]

How I see it in short, like pausing your favorite video game or movie.

Because actions is done when you are alive, whether it be positive or negative, should one perish, what is done is left in God's memory, so when you are brought back, you will be judged for what you have done, judgement for one would be difficult if they were told about God, his Son and the Kingdom in depth and do not do anything to attempt to do what God asks of said person. The righteous and meek will inherit the earth.

Didn't go in much detail because right now I am one tired storm trooper, one of them nights lol.

[Melinda Mills]

"One consequence of the fact that the resurrection takes place at the end of the millennium is asking the question of what basis will be judged resurrected .

So far we have been taught that the resurrected would be judged based on what they would do after their resurrection , that is, over a long period in the kingdom of Christ."    - Israeli Bar Avaddhon

 ===========

Don’t think you understand this all together.  See below.

(Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Romans 6:6, 7) . . .. ⁷ For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.

 Death acquits us of the sins we incur before death.

 (Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

 We will not be resurrected perfect – just in suitable bodies – we will have the same attitude and tendencies but we will have a fresh start or in some cases to be fair a first chance to learn what is right.

 There will be a great crowd that will survive without dying that will also be imperfect still. (Rev 7:13-15,17)

Lamb will guide them to everlasting life.

 (Revelation 20:12-15) ¹² And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. ¹³ And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. ¹⁴ And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. ¹⁵ Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.

Thousand year jubilee or Sabbath will be used to teach, heal and restore all mankind living on the Paradise earth.

 *** ka chap. 7 pp. 137-138 pars. 52-54 What to Expect of Judges for a Thousand Years ***

“The millennial “land of straightforwardness,” of straightforward dealing with the people and among the people, will be a place where great favor is shown to all mankind in their inborn human imperfection. Some members of the human family have gone down more deeply into sinful degradation than others and have been hardened in an unjust personality because of long failing to be brought to account. Their accustomed bent is toward injustice. It is easy to see how wicked ones of that kind would find it difficult to learn righteousness and uprightness even when all around them there is straightforwardness and divine favor is being shown to them through the King Jesus Christ. In spite of all the help proffered to them, they will be inclined to do unjustly. They will not want to recognize the eminence of Jehovah as the rightful Lawgiver nor the rightness of His standards for living. Respecting them the principle set forth by the apostle Peter seems fitting:

⁵³ “For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the end be of those who are not obedient to the good news of God? ‘And if the righteous man is being saved with difficulty, where will the ungodly man and the sinner make a showing?’”—1 Peter 4:17, 18.

⁵⁴ Persons who, in the “land of straightforwardness,” receive the “favor” of God in vain, missing its loving purpose, and who prove unreformable, need not necessarily be preserved to the end of the thousand years before being executed as unfit for eternal life in the Paradise restored to earth. Without any injustice to such who prove to be beyond correction, they may be executed by the one whom God has appointed to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness. These do not get their names written “in the book of life” and hence they are fit for nothing but the “second death,” as symbolized by the “lake of fire” that causes a complete destruction. (Revelation 20:14, 15) How wise and prudent it is, then, to be obedient now to the “good news of God” and to cultivate a love of righteousness in view of that coming Judgment Day!”

 

Isa 11:9 – knowledge given about dealing with earth, animals; knowledge from the scrolls dispensed; mankind rehabilitated to perfection.

End of millennium Satan will be let out of his “pit” to test restored mankind. See Rev 20:7

 Afterward (Adamic) Death the last enemy – will be destroyed.  Adamic death will be hurled into the lake of fire. It will no longer be needed nor will it happen.  See 1 Co 15:25,26; Rev 21:3,4., Rev 20:13,14

  (1 Corinthians 15:25, 26) For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. ²⁶ And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing.

  (Revelation 20:13, 14) And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. ¹⁴ And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.

 (Revelation 21:4) And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

 Second death will always be available to Jehovah to destroy anything that threatens the universe, though this will be unlikely.  It is the second death or lake of fire that will destroy Satan and his demons, and also Adamic death. Wicked people,people who sin against the holy spirit,  the political nations, the false prophet, etc, will already have been thrown there.

 When the Rest of the “Dead” comes to life

Does not mean the order of the resurrection.  Does not mean that this is when the righteous and unrighteous are resurrected.

*** Bible Citations ***

(Revelation 20:4, 5) And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. ⁵ (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

*** it-2 p. 249 Life ***

In his command to Adam, God implied that if Adam obeyed, he would not die. (Ge 2:17) So with obedient mankind, when man’s last enemy, death, is brought to nothing, there will be no sin working in their bodies to bring death. To time indefinite they will not need to die. (1Co 15:26) This bringing of death to nothing takes place at the end of Christ’s reign, which the book of Revelation shows is 1,000 years long. Here it is said of those becoming kings and priests with Christ that they “came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.” “The rest of the dead” not coming to life “until the thousand years were ended” must be those alive at the end of the thousand years, but before Satan is released from the abyss and brings the decisive test on mankind. By the end of the thousand years, people on earth will have reached human perfection, being in the condition that Adam and Eve were in before they sinned. Now they will really have life in perfection. Those who thereafter pass the test when Satan is released for a short time from the abyss will be able to enjoy that life forever.—Re 20:4-10.

 Will answer some more later.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

"Romans 6:23) For the wages that sin pays is death, but the gift that God gives is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Romans 6: 6, 7). . 7 For whoever is dead, he has been absolved of his sin.

  Death takes away the sins we have before death"

 

False. Writing simply says that sin leads to death.

Death is a just reward. Stop.

If you remain in death then sin is paid.

This is where we are talking about resurrection and the point is to understand if the resurrection (that is, it has not remained in death) must respond to sins.

 

"(Acts 24:15) And I have hope in God, who hope for these men also to look to the future, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unjust"

This writing implies that surely the right judge will assess the causes and attenuants of each individual.

This means that the sinner will not automatically end in death and it is not excluded that there may be a period of probative time to expiate sin - compare Matthew 5:26

On the contrary, if there is a resurrection of the just and the unjust, it means that the "unjust" are unjust because of what they did when they were alive.

Obviously writing does not say that they are "unjust" because of the tendencies they would once have resurrected.

"We will not be resurrected perfectly - in the right bodies - we will have the same attitude and tendencies but we will have a new beginning or in some cases be honest a first chance to learn what is right."

 

This is logical but being just or unjust has nothing to do with the tendencies.

You're just or unfair because of what you do.

They are recognized as just or unjust because of what has been done (not because of the tendencies) and not because of what you "could do".

 

"There will be a great crowd that will survive without dying that it will also be imperfect yet (Ap 7: 13-15,17)

Lamb will guide them to eternal life "

 

Correct. But these are already considered "righteous" because they have washed their clothes in the blood of the Lamb.

This scripture has no title in determining whether sinners (the unrighteous) once resurrected have to answer their own mistakes or not.

 

"(Revelation 20: 12-15) 12 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in front of the throne, and flowing open, but another scroll was opened, it is the roll of life. things written in rolls according to their works "

 

This is another script that is just the opposite of what you want to support.

Writing says that either the dead were judged by "written things" or by things that have already been written. Time is in the past.

I do not know how it comes in English but in my native language and text the meaning is "things written" and there is no script "the dead will be judged by the things that will be written" (ie in the future after the resurrection).

 

"End of the Millennium Satan will be left out of his "well" to test restored humanity. See Acts 20: 7"

 

The intent of this writing starts from another wrong assumption.

The wrong assumption is that Armageddon destroys all humanity and that no nation is saved.

Instead, the Bible explains that Armghedon will destroy the wild beast and his armies; in practice, the satanic system.

Will all humanity be destroyed?

Daniel 7:11, 12 says, "I continued to look at that, because of the sound of the great words the horn spoke; I kept looking until the beast was killed and his body was destroyed and was given to the burning fire. But as far as the rest of the beasts were concerned, their domains were removed, and they were granted a prolongation of life for a time and a season "

I already know what the Governing Body says about these scriptures so it is useless to repeat them.

However, we try to reason.

Who is killing the beast?

Is Christ, right?

When was this beast killed? It's happened in the past?

No.

Who has the authority to cast "burning fire"? One person? Another kingdom?

No, only Christ or Jehovah. It's not true?

Well, the writing says that "the beast was killed and his body was destroyed and was given to the fiery fire (to Armageddon, right?) But as for the rest of the beasts, their domains were removed, and granted them a prolongation of life for a time and a season. "

As you rightly wrote, Satan must be untied from the abyss and needs to "mislead the nations at the four corners of the earth" but there is a problem.

During the Millennium reign will there be other nations?

Will the world be divided into nations?

Until recently "Gog of Magog", according to the Governing Body, was "Satan the Devil" and after one hundred years they realized that it was "a little strange" that Satan was devoured by birds and had a tomb here on earth.

Now he says Magog's Gog is a coalition of nations (and that's right) but the problem is ... which nations?

Will there be still nations (and therefore political divisions) during the Millennial Kingdom?

The difficulty of understanding Gog's identity comes from the difficulty of understanding who will be destroyed by Armageddon.

Be careful of this writing.

"(1 Corinthians 15:25, 26) For he must reign until God puts all the enemies under his feet.26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing"

This writing also shows that there is a problem with the present intent.

If Christ has to rule "until God places all the enemies under his feet" and the Armageddon destroys all the rest of the world, then Christ should return the Kingdom at the end of Armageddon in fact 1 Corinthians 15; 27 says "But when all things they will be subjected, then the Son himself will submit to Him who has subjected Him all things, that God may be all things to all. "

It is clear that there are still enemies during the Millennial Kingdom.

Who are these enemies?

Just "the nations at the four corners of the earth" - Revelation 20:7

Gog of Magog have never become our brothers.

When Gog of Magog will be destroyed, then "all enemies will be placed under the feet of Christ" and at the end Christ returns the Kingdom to his Father, Jehovah.

Magog's Gog will be destroyed and in the end there is still a last enemy to be eliminated: death.

Death is eliminated during the resurrection which, in fact, takes place at the end of the millennium and not during the millennium.

If death was eliminated at the beginning of the millennium, then it would not be "the last enemy." (but "last enemy it's Gog)

Revelation 20: 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the end of the 1,000 years).

"Until the end" it is not difficult to understand if we are free of the preconceptions.

 

I have no interest in commenting on the explanation of the Governing Body. Only the Bible explains herself.

If you have considered "absurd" that Armageddon does not destroy the whole world (as we have always believed), I invite you to read the article on this link and compare the Scriptures.

Surely you will be able to assess whether the subject is supported by the Scriptures (that is, from the Bible) or whether they are personal ideas.

 

http://attenzioneallaprofezia.blogspot.it/2017/06/quali-nazioni-scompaiono-ad-armaghedon.html

http://attenzioneallaprofezia.blogspot.it/2017/08/chi-e-gog-di-magog.html

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Regards greetings