The Name of God - Documentary by Fritz Poppenberg

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

Since you got a disingenuous up-vote? I’ll give you a disingenuous down-vote, so TTH can once again, be regaled by his friend.

Not to mention all the comparisons made, to the early Bible Students and the Tower.

No love lost, ah!

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

That's why I place "zero" value in up-votes. You can remove it!

Curious. I've often wondered why Bible Speaks and Queen Esther and, to a much lesser extent, "you and yours" engage in self-up-voting. (TTH did this at least once, too.) But I agree that they are of zero value. There is a whole generation of people today who seem to live and die (sometimes literally) over the concept of digital approval. Facebook had to get rid of the down-vote because it caused the break-up of so many real and "social" friends. 

But the up-vote is still useful as a way to react to a good or funny comment, or express appreciation for the good and useful research that has gone into comments. You have received at least a dozen from me for the latter reason; probably a couple of them are in this very topic. I don't believe I have ever given a down-vote.

So credit where credit is due. I don't see any reason to remove it.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

However, you're mistaken when you assert not pitting scholars over the GB.

I hope not. I didn't think you were doing it on purpose. I just thought you sometimes saw a book with an impressive sounding title and assumed that the book supported something the GB was saying before you read the actual book. I have access to JSTOR and a lot of the full books you have referenced through a university alumni account. So, you probably don't know how much time I've nearly "wasted" trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Then you would, in essence, be voiding all your arguments placed over the years about 607BC and your agreement with COJ's assessment with his scholar's view, about the Watchtower doctrine.

Curious, again. You have usually been more careful to always deny that COJ had a scholar's view. I wonder if you would consider Gerard Gertoux to be a scholar. A few minutes ago, I just emailed him, asking for his permission to quote and discuss his view on the chronology of the destruction of Jerusalem. He appears to agree with COJ that the date must be either 587 or 586, not 607 BCE. The purpose of the email was also to double-check if it is still his current view.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, J.R. Ewing said:

I’ll give you a disingenuous down-vote, so TTH can once again, be regaled by his friend.

I feel his pain

 

[JW Insider]

4 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

having NO formal higher education to substantiate his accusations

Yes, I understand the all-important emphasis that you and opposers put on "higher education." But Gerard Gertoux DOES have formal higher education. How can we explain his agreement with COJ with regard to chronology?

[Anna]

You all may have seen this, but it is a useful list of books, either written by JWs or supportive of JW views (but not necessarily in everything). They range from scholarly to children's stories.  @TrueTomHarley you should get your book on the list there!

http://manitobaphotos.com/theolib/index.htm

I don't know how up to date this list is, because as far as I know, at least one of the authors is no longer a Witness (Greg Stafford), but he was at the time of writing his book.

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

Those working with darkness will never see the light.  John 8:12

1 John 1:5-9New International Version (NIV)

Light and Darkness, Sin and Forgiveness

^5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. ^6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. ^7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all^[a] sin.

^8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. ^9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

[JW Insider]

11 minutes ago, Anna said:

I don't know how up to date this list is, because as far as I know, at least one of the authors is no longer a Witness, but he was at the time of writing his book.

I saw that too. In the explanation at the top he says that the Yes/No in the box refers only to the time when they wrote the book:

• I have indicated whether each book was written by a brother or not at the time that the book was released

 

[Anna]

Just now, JW Insider said:

I saw that too. In the explanation at the top he says that the Yes/No in the box refers only to the time when they wrote the book:

• I have indicated whether each book was written by a brother or not at the time that the book was released

 

Yes, I've just noticed that, lol. I actually went and read his preface after I posted the link. I'm so disorganized!

[JW Insider]

5 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

I wouldn’t know. I received my doctorates without a problem, and I disagree with COJ’s assessment. But, you keep insisting Gerard Gertoux is still a witness, but then again, you claim, the same!

Actually, I have never insisted. Are you saying that if he himself claims to be a JW that you might not believe him? By the way, I did just get a response from him, and he preferred that I only use only one particular article of his when discussing 587/6 BCE. He says:

• "To avoid any controversy on this controversial subject you can quote my article 'Basic astronomy for historians to get a chronology' . . . [link] . . . which was validated by Professor Hermann Hunger who is a reference in Babylonian astronomy."

[Thanks to the person who gave me his most recent email address. I had tried the same one before without a response, but it is still correct. I received the above response a few minutes ago.]

[TrueTomHarley]

12 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

By the way, I did just get a response from him,

Uh oh

[JW Insider]

With reference to the current topic at hand, Gertoux had already said the following about the film, indicating that it was made "from this article" and from "the simplified version of the book" on this subject.

• God's name: readable but unpronounceable, why?
• Fritz Poppenberg a German filmaker made a DVD from this article ( http://www.dreilindenfilm.de/shop/der-name-gottes_en.html ) which is available for free on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oazE-CL06BA The understanding of God's name YHWH is so controversial that it is eventually the controversy of controversies, or the ultimate controversy. Indeed, why most of competent Hebrew scholars propagate patently false explanations about God's name? Why do the Jews refuse to read God's name as it is written and read Adonay "my Lord" (a plural of majesty) instead of it? Why God's name is usually punctuated e,â (shewa, qamats) by the Masoretes what makes its reading impossible, because the 4 consonants of the name YHWH must have at least 3 vowels (long or short) to be read, like the words ’aDoNâY and ’eLoHîM "God" (a plural of majesty), which have 4 consonants and 3 vowels? At last, why the obvious reading "Yehowah", according to theophoric names, which all begin by Yehô-, without exception, is so despised, and why the simple biblical meaning, "He will be" from Exodus 3:14, is rejected.

 

• The Name of God Y.eH.oW.aH Which is pronounced as it is Written I_Eh_oU_Ah. Simplified edition
• Fritz Poppenberg a German filmaker made a DVD from the simplified version of the book ( http://www.dreilindenfilm.de/shop/der-name-gottes_en.html ) which is available for free on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9mtlexbaWA . . . [the remainder of this paragraph is exactly the same as the above].

[TrueTomHarley]

22 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

I’m sure if I read TTH books, I will find certain aspects of his books to disagree with.

No.