NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Sale of Historic Building, The Towers

[The Librarian]

Jehovah’s Witnesses have sold another of their key legacy holdings in Brooklyn, New York.

Source

 

See photos regarding the Towers here: http://www.jw-archive.org/search/Towers

 

 

VIDEO of the building prepared for sale

[Srecko Sostar]

The Witnesses purchased the building in 1975 . 

Who normally would have spend money to buy building in this old  wicked system just before 1975 Armageddon ??  

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I might ....  a building is at least a real object ... whereas money is just a symbol representing hours of human labor, skill, and industriousness.

Or, I might stock op on non-perishable food, water purification devices, medicines,  tools, weapons and ammunition.

I do not hunt animals, and I do not like to even fish ... but I believe it is a highly desirable skill to have.  

Those that think this is horrible are completely divorced from reality ... as EVERYTHING that lives has to eat ... and I would rather hunt than take up "grazing".

The natural order of things, is that about half of all life eats the other half, and even they have to eat plants that are also alive., and this was true many millions of years before "homo theocraticus" ... humans  directly created by God ... came upon the scene.

Also ... if a loaf of bread is $700 ... and you HAVE $700 ... you eat while others who do NOT have $700 ........ starve to death.

[JW Insider]

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Who normally would have spend money to buy building in this old  wicked system just before 1975 Armageddon ??  

We also paid for people to move out of the building and ended up with about a dozen elderly persons who could not be bought out at any price. We would not be able to use the entire building until they died. We moved them all onto a couple of floors that Bethelites couldn't move into until they died. The construction crew had a kind of pseudo-celebration when the last one died.

It's a curious thing, though, that the Watch Tower's history has seen this happen several times. Russell spent his and his father's money in 1877 because 1878 was going to be the "resurrection" and change from fleshly body to spiritual body. Russell bought into Barbour's Herald and helped him distribute Barbour's "Three Worlds" / "Tabernacle Shadows" and then Russell's own "Object and Manner of the Lord's Return" in huge quantities in 1877 and 1878. Then in 1913 and 1914 almost all the finances of the Society were gone. MacMillan says the Society was completely broke by mid-1914. They had spent a tremendous amount on "Photo-Drama of Creation." There was not much need to hold anything back, as everyone involved in the Society was "going home" to heaven in 1914. Then, in 1924, just one year prior to the resurrection of the ancient worthies, Rutherford took possession of a couple of houses and a couple of expensive cars for David and Abraham to drive. (This is not your fore-fathers Oldsmobile!) Also in 1924, they completed gathering the money to build their own first factory at 117 Adams Street - 8 stories, taking up an entire block.

[Srecko Sostar]

Perhaps GB stick to the story of multiplying Masters money in too literal meaning and working with money in various ways. Investments funds of all sorts, buying, selling and building real estates. ... And is it not strange how US people, citizens are founders of WT Company-Religion? Because US are very good soil for prosperity in various way.    hehe  

[Evacuated]

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Who normally would have spend money to buy building in this old  wicked system just before 1975 Armageddon?

Only Jehovahs Witnesses because only Jehovahs Witnesses not destroyed??

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

Yes, 1975! The year for the eager hearted and hoaxers. Something only an ex-Bethelite, that got kicked out of Bethel, his team of men followers, and apostates can rally behind. The wild, unsubstantiated allegations that follow only to appease Trump Base of followers!!!!

But at least, the Watchtower doesn’t squander its money, rather recycles it to better serve God outside the parameters of the United Nation that could be an inevitable target.

 

After all, the people make the church of Christ, not the building!

 

[JW Insider]

37 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Something only an ex-Bethelite, that got kicked out of Bethel, his team of men followers, and apostates can really behind.

Who is this "ex-Bethelite, that got kicked out of Bethel" you have referred to on multiple occasions now? Or perhaps this is just an example of what you call . . . .

38 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

The wild, unsubstantiated allegations that follow only to appease Trump Base of followers!!!!

 

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

There’s nothing unsubstantiated about ex-Bethelite's for being supporters of Raymond Franz in the 80Â’s, got DfÂ’d in the process only to be reinstated with an ax to grind. Then telling people, they know the Governing Body very well (Best Buds). All the while making wild accusations, about them, behind their backs!! 

I guess thatÂ’s why thereÂ’s a need for autonomy, outside of GodÂ’s Kingdom. Love the influence of Mabon!!!

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

There’s nothing unsubstantiated about ex-Bethelite's for being supporters of Raymond Franz in the 80Â’s, got DfÂ’d in the process only to be reinstated with an ax to grind. Then telling people, they know the Governing Body very well (Best Buds). All the while making wild accusations, about them, behind their backs!! 

Interesting theory. I wonder if it really is substantiated however. I have not heard of one single person who supported Raymond Franz in the 80's, got disfellowshipped, and then got reinstated. It's possible, of course, but seems unlikely. I knew one Bethelite, a person who might have supported Franz in the 80's based on his current promotion of a book that R.Franz wrote. He continued as a Bethelite until about 1984? and as an elder until about 1995, but then was disfellowshipped for an unrelated issue related to divorce and re-marriage, but who now thinks he should get back in, he claims, just to help warn more people that they should get out. But I don't think he has ever tried to get back in, and in his mental situation, what would be the chances that he could get reinstated with such a negative view of the WTS? He has views similar to "Witness." Can you imagine "Witness" trying to get re-instated (assuming he was DF'd).

But this is the closest situation I know about. I imagine there are a lot of people who read Franz' books and think that a warning must go out, but it really makes no sense that people would get DF'd over their negative view of the WTS and then truly want to get back inside the WTS just to tear it down. What a waste of a life!

I think it's pretty obvious who you have actually meant to target with your wild, unsubstantiated allegations. You are wrong, of course. By the way, Raymond Franz would have been one of the most difficult persons to be a supporter of while he was at Bethel, as he was always friendly with a smile, but very few words. His weeks where he handled morning worship were never about any controversial subjects, almost always just Christian conduct and character. He was extremely quiet, unassuming and stayed very busy in his office when at work, and handled a lot of Branch visits. Most of the Governing Body did not do multi-stop Branch visits. Otherwise, he spent a lot of time in his own congregation. So what was to "support"?

In my own experience, I got married in the early 1980's and remained in New York so that I was even able to continue several research projects reporting to Bethel, which did not completely wane until 1984. I have never been disfellowshipped. Two brothers from the Writing Department gave our wedding talk, and one of them actually did fade away several years later and I haven't spoken to him since then. But the other remained in his position as editor of the Watchtower well into the 2000's. In 2013, I was asked to give the funeral talk for a person from his old congregation in NYC since he couldn't get there on time. (He lived in Patterson.) He got there later, and we ended up sharing the talk in much the same way as he had shared our wedding talk with another speaker. This was Brother Fred Rusk.

Also, can you explain your reference to "Mabon"? I looked the name up in Wikipedia and can't see what you are trying to say.

Religion and mythology

• Mabon, the Autumnal equinox in some versions of the Pagan Wheel of the Year
• Mabon ap Modron, a figure in Welsh Arthurian legend
• Maponos, a pre-Christian Celtic god
• Mabyn or Mabon, an early Cornish saint

People

• Willie Mabon (1925–1985), American singer & songwriter
• Dickson Mabon (1925–2008), Scottish politician
• William Abraham (trade unionist), also known as Mabon (1842-1922), Welsh politician

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

Oh! I’m pretty sure, we can at least come up with a Raymond supporter other than “Lyman Swingle” that, all but, prevented good old Raymond from being DfÂ’d when he should have been, much earlier. Time Magazine of Feb. 22, 1982, p. 66

And IÂ’m sure we can find one or two, Bethelites that got kicked out of Bethel in the 80Â’s.

1.       Barbara Anderson:

2.       Bill Bowens: Founder of Silentlambs

3.       Edward Dunlap: Left Bethel in 1980 after being Df’d

4.       Nestor Kuilan:

 

 

To some of us. I think we can still remember the good old days, and what it was called in the 80Â’s.

It was known as "The Purge" in JW circles or "Jehovah was cleaning house."

"Up until the purges that took place at Brooklyn Bethel in 1980, Ed Dunlap had served as the Registrar and one of the senior instructors of the Gilead School. Also known a RaymondÂ’s BF and confidante.

Now I’m not talking about the “claim” Bill Bowens made about Raymond Franz, that he was the author of the society’s “two eye-witness rule” and then, how good old Bill turned on Ray for not going on a TV news show, around, 2002.

IÂ’m sure I can continue, but somehow, your claims of being part of that transactional period in the Bethel House with your recollection seems to fall short when it comes to the truth.

Carry on, and entice your base with juicy stories of yesteryear!!!

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Oh! I’m pretty sure, we can at least come up with a Raymond supporter

I'm sure we can, too. It appears that those who worked directly with him supported him. But have you already forgotten your claim so quickly? You said that it could be substantiated that ex-Bethelites who supported R.Franz in the 80's, got DF'd in the process only to be reinstated. As you put it:

10 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

ThereÂ’s nothing unsubstantiated about ex-Bethelite's for being supporters of Raymond Franz in the 80Â’s, got DfÂ’d in the process only to be reinstated with an ax to grind.

Perhaps you have already backed down from this unsubstantiated claim. I think anyone would agree that there were and are R.Franz supporters, though.

Barbara Anderson might be one, I don't know. But she was never at Bethel when he was there. I think she's more of a 90's Bethelite. But she completely lost her belief that this could be the truth, so I doubt anyone could talk her into coming back.

Bill Bowen might or might not; I thought he blamed him for the "two-witness" rule, too. Also, he never was a Bethelite, I don't think. And I've heard he is kind of creepy.

Ed Dunlap. Yes he was at Bethel, yes, the time period is right, and I've read in the R.Franz book that they were good friends, and I knew that they worked together. Not much chance he'll try for reinstatement. He died long before R.Franz did. 

Nestor Kuilan. That could be a candidate. He was good friends with Rene Vasquez, who was also disfellowshipped, along with Cristobal Sanchez. All of them worked on Spanish translation and all of them knew each other. But Vasquez worked outside of Bethel, and handled some Circuit Overseer assignments. That circuit covered the congregation R.Franz was in, I think. When Vasquez came to Bethel, I think he mostly came to the factory building where Sanchez and Kuilan worked (along with both their wives). I remember that Rene Vasquez sold "Shaklee" vitamins and health supplies as did many brothers in the same circuit. He had done this for years, and was one of the first and biggest suppliers in the area. That meant that a lot of other Witnesses who he had helped to get into the business were actually making a portion of their money for Vasquez, and this had become a big question that even made its way around Bethel. It turned out that some Bethelites were also selling Shaklee on the side, in the same way that a couple of sisters were selling Avon products on the side. (We didn't have the "vow of poverty" in the early 1980's.) At their next circuit assembly (in Spanish) Brother Fred Franz gave a talk and made it clear what they should do. He said:

• "We get OUR VITAMINS from the Faithful and Discreet Slave!!"

 

3 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Now I’m not talking about the “claim” Bill Bowens made about Raymond Franz, that he was the author of the society’s “two eye-witness rule” and then, how good old Bill turned on Ray for not going on a TV news show, around, 2002.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if R.Franz was the primary one behind the two-witness" rule. I remember some articles that came in for artwork from R.Franz, so I knew a little bit about his style. But I never saw anything specifically on the two-witness rule. Still, from the articles I did see, he was the one who was usually assigned to take on specific portions of "organization books" and some articles on congregational issues dealing with qualifications for elders, ministerial servants, disfellowshipping, reinstatement, and the like. Most of these types of articles were cut down into "Questions from Readers" and never got an "artwork" assignment anyway. A few of his that were full-fledged Watchtower articles would have no artwork, but would only get an assignment for someone to create or choose a special "headline font." Some of the writers interacted with the Art Dept and were "memorable" for their interactions, as they were hard to please. But I never saw R.Franz interact much. If someone (like Swingle) thought one of his articles could use some art, he'd request it, but I don't remember Franz personally interacting with anyone in Art.

3 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Carry on, and entice your base with juicy stories of yesteryear!!!

LOL. If I can remember anything "juicier" you'll be one of the first to know. Or judging by how many names you appear to be using for yourself on here, you might even be the first through the fourth persons to know.