Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

[Noble Berean]

Kind of confused how this is a "controversial topic." It's literally real, ongoing news.

[Noble Berean]

Well, at this point I definitely think JWs can throw out that old line "Look at those wicked Catholic Churches with their child abusing priests!"

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Kind of confused how this is a "controversial topic." It's literally real, ongoing news

you are absolutely right, it is controversial for those who are not able to see  

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

By your rationale.

:)))) by "rationale" of JWorg web side "Gentiles" is equal to other word- "enemy". Article  "Keep On Doing Good" w08 5/15 p. 7-8 - some quotes;

DOING good to others can be a challenge. Those to whom we show love may not reciprocate... Jesus Christ told his disciples: “Continue to love your enemies and to do good.” (Luke 6:35) Let us now take a close look at this admonition. We will also benefit from other points Jesus made about doing good to others.....The Mosaic Law required that the Israelites stay separate from other nations, but the viewpoint had developed that all non-Jews were enemies, to be hated as individuals.....

and now  

 ^...Stressing how important it was for his disciples to ‘continue loving their enemies,’ Jesus said: “If you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?” (Matt. 5:46, 47) If we were to limit our love to those who reciprocate, this would not merit any “reward,” or favor, from God. Even tax collectors, who were generally despised, showed love for people who loved them.—Luke 5:30; 7:34.

It is noteworthy that Jesus set out this rule of conduct: “All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them.” (Matt. 7:12) Only if we treat fellow humans in this way can we prove that we are true followers of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Rationale -----WT GB Rationale-----My Rationale-----Your Rationale -----------:))))))))))

 

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Well, at this point I definitely think JWs can throw out that old line "Look at those wicked Catholic Churches with their child abusing priests!"

I disagree. To the extent your statement is true it is only because media has managed to muddle perception - today,  'rape' is equated to 'too free with the hands' which is equated to 'having investigated it for purposes of discipline/protection but never having done it themselves.'

IMO, it is disloyal to God to not always point this out, regardless of how culpable one may think the modern-day organization is. In this case, the subject truly is a convicted rapist and he was an elder, but that is extraordinarily rare, whereas for the Church, it was a dime a dozen. In a collection of millions of persons, you will find examples of anything. Everybody knows that. JW Elder abuse is essentially unheard of. No large group of anything human has a better record

Having said that, I am not one for beating up on the Church over this. It is too much like rejoicing over another's downfall - regardless of whether they deserve it. It has become public knowledge - I do not have to pile on. If I mention it, it is only a mention. I do not harp on it. Their deeds are between they and God, as are ours.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

convicted rapist and he was an elder, but that is extraordinarily rare,

"Another Jehovah’s Witness Elder Pleads Guilty to Sexually Abusing Teen Boy"

KTLA, Channel 5 [Los Angeles, California] reported that a former teacher in a now-closed private school in Long Beach (located at the south end of Los Angeles County) has finally agreed to a guilty plea for his 2007 crimes against children.

[BY ERIKA MARTIN AND KRISTINA BRAVO,  NOVEMBER 15, 2017]

http://ktla.com/2017/11/15/long-beach-private-school-teacher-jehovahs-witness-elder-pleads-guilty-to-sexually-abusing-teen-boy/

"In 2009, the teenager reported the abuse to the congregation, which then removed Gorski from his position as an elder, but allowed him to remain an active member. Gorski later moved to South Carolina and started attending a Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation in Charlotte, North Carolina."

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

the teenager reported the abuse to the congregation, which then removed Gorski from his position as an elder, but allowed him to remain an active member

That's two, Srecko. Good job! Yes, and in the whole wide world there will be many  more. His crime:

pleaded to two counts of lewd or lascivious acts

We were speaking of countless cases of rape within another certain dominant religion. In that context, the contribution you've excitedly offered up  - so thrilled -  just doesn't cut it. It is not in the same 'league.'

"which then removed Gorski from his position as an elder, but allowed him to remain an active member"

After imposing what discipline?, for they invariably would. It would be rebuke of some sort with sanctions - something not mentioned in the story. Should they have shot him? What were the laws at that place at that time? If it is a scenario where critics say they must go "beyond the law" to prove their concern for children, doing that can get them in hot water in most places, because the default law is clergy/penitent protected confidentiality. That's why G Jackson pleaded to the ARC to make their laws uniform, which would make JWs job so much easier - it would be across-the-board policy, with no room for misunderstanding or misapplication, and it wouldn't matter if a given family head wanted to avoid airing his family's dirty laundry on the 11PM News. Even today, families do not line up to do that, whether religious or not.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

After imposing what discipline?, for they invariably would. It would be rebuke of some sort with sanctions - something not mentioned in the story.

"We are not entitled for privileged informations" according to "Shepherd book" :))

6 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is not in the same 'league.'

I thought that crime is crime, sorry for disturbing readers with inappropriate news.  

[TrueTomHarley]

1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I thought that crime is crime, sorry for disturbing readers with inappropriate news

You are right. Crime is crime. Sorry. If we are discussing backing the dumptruck of toxic waste into the river, it is very important that you post your story of the guy caught littering. 

 

11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

pleaded to two counts of lewd or lascivious acts

It is not good. No one says otherwise. But it is also not very specific - nor is it rape. If it was, he would have been convicted of it.

[Anna]

28 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That's why G Jackson pleaded to the ARC to make their laws uniform, which would make JWs job so much easier - it would be across-the-board policy, with no room for misunderstanding or misapplication, and it wouldn't matter if a given family head wanted to avoid airing his family's dirty laundry on the 11PM News.

Right.

[Srecko Sostar]

42 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

G Jackson pleaded to the ARC to make their laws uniform, which would make JWs job so much easier  

Please, show me place where G. Jackson said that, that i would be able to check for myself, thanks! 

https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/getattachment/c2d1f1f5-a1f2-4241-82fb-978d072734bd/Report-of-Case-Study-No-29

"Authority to produce or revise child sexual abuse policy

Mr Geoffrey Jackson said that the Governing Body’s expectation is that Branch Offices around the world will act in accordance with the procedures and guidelines set out in the 2015 Branch Organization Manual.113 Mr O’Brien told the Royal Commission that ‘the theocratic or Scriptural direction that the Governing Body provides, is the same in every branch and for all Jehovah’s Witnesses, worldwide’.114 Mr O’Brien explained that the Branch Committee faithfully implements and follows the direction of the Governing Body.115 Mr Toole said that Jehovah’s Witness congregations in Australia take their direction and instructions from the Branch Office.116

It is apparent that the Governing Body retains authority over the general principle and framework of all publications in the name of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation, and any view or perspective contrary to the Governing Body’s interpretation of the Scriptures is not tolerated."

[Srecko Sostar]

11 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

It still your rationale. I didn't suggest, it was a good one, when "all" you show, is the manipulation of Watchtower literature, and distortion of scripture.

 

very sad to hear your conclusion! without real reasoning and ... ahh better to save my air and not to try respond more than this