The bible itself says that we must not have fellowship with those who are brazen in conduct. There is no "threat". When a person is a spiritual threat to other brothers and sisters and does not stop brazen conduct......then only, after they have been requested many times to stop unacceptable behaviour, are they disfellowshipped. These are the ones who usually then defame JWs and hide the truth- that they were disfellowshipped because of a Christian conduct, be it repetitive lying, stealing, fornication etc...... a practice of some und of unacceptable behaviour.
Many realize the need to change and come back into the fold - others become more brazen..... and defame JWs.
I see you did not like this comment. ...... it says a lot about you. People like to blame "others" .... never themselves.... Adam blamed eve.... lol.
My daughter bought a small home in UK in a safe area. One bathroom, 3 bedrooms - and it costs over over half million pounds. So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and is definitely not the epitome of luxury - which impression you are trying to create.
To sell a house that people have been using is good. They can use this money to assist brothers in the rest of the world. I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed..... but if they kept it you would also complain. One cannot ever please some people.....
I guess - according to you - we can throw out all the scriptures which indicate the anointed will have heavenly bodies such as 1 cor 15 and revelations - too many places to mention. Not even those which show they will be changed in an instant.
And the scriptures in Hebrews which indicate that they will be priests in the heavenly temple of jehovah.
Jehovah is perfect in logic, so why give a heavenly body when a physical body is more suited to the earth?
The marriage of the lamb will take place where?
Did Jesus give up his earthly body to receive a heavenly spiritual body? And did he really say to his disciples they will be with him where he is?
Agh, there are just too many scriptures which indicate it is a heavenly kingdom and heavenly rulership....and a heavenly priesthood - a function you have forgotten about by just wanting to " rule"......... .which tells me you are up to your same old, same old behaviours.
You boast you are of the body of christ...... so which "body" do you belong to which has perfect unity? . How many members? Where do you meet? And are you and your adherents fulfilling the prophesy that the good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth?
And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kingsr over the earth.”Rev 5:9,10 - NWT
As a JW, this sounded accurate to me, since it fit the supporting doctrine that the “144,000” will rule strictly from heaven – “over” the earth...not within its vicinity, but from the spiritual realm. What I have since learned about this scripture and Christ’s truth regarding where the anointed will be “ruling” from, has been an important turning point for me.
Notice how the organization’s own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures breaks down vs. 10:
“and you made them to the God of us kingdom and priests and they are reigning upon the earth”
Here are a few other examples:
“And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” Scripture4all.org
“…they will reign upon the earth”. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5-10.htm
It is very rare to find a Bible translation using the phrase “over the earth” in this scripture. The organization’s latest pictorial depiction of the 144,000 kings/priests ruling in heaven was of a vast array of emerald green thrones where men appearing identical to one another and to Christ, gazed over the earth as Christ’s “co-rulers”. I wonder what the anointed JW women feel about a female’s apparent transition into a man, who are clones of each other. This teaching sounds ridiculous to me today. However, since the role of JW women is repeatedly slighted, should we expect any acknowledgement of the anointed being both male and female? I could be in error, but I haven’t seen any photos of women partaking in the magazines.
There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28
To be one in Christ does not mean the faithful sealed anointed take on the same physical appearance as Christ. All of the members of a fleshly body are distinctly different in appearance; working separately yet collectively, with the unified goal to allow the body to work efficiently. It is the same in the Body of Christ. 1 Cor 12:15-20 All are given various gifts, and all are individuals with individual personalities. They have abilities reflecting the gift they receive.
Paul described it this way:
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. 1 Cor 12:4-6
If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 1 Cor 12:19,20
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized byone Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. 1 Cor 12:12-14
15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. Eph 4:11-16
The 144,000 are the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant “woman”/promise. (2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:29-32; Gal 4:26) It is curious that the WT's leaders rarely go into detail about this. When I recall their latest illustration described above, I don’t believe the artist had the idea of “bride” in mind. I could only sense an aura of steely authority, without the needed compassion and love that Jesus exhibited and taught his disciples to nurture within themselves. (Isa 42:3; Matt 14:14; John 13:34,35; 1 John 4: 17; Heb 4:15)
Just as a bride and groom are not identical to each other, neither is Christ’s Bride of many members; either to Christ, or to one another, as the illustration erroneously shows. (1 Cor 12:29,30; Eph 4:11-13) Marriage partners compliment and support each other in love. It is the same with the Body of Christ, being united in one Spirit that imparts love, faith and knowledge of Christ and the Father.
The organization’s leaders are unable to perceive this spiritual unity, since they have rejected the Spirit of Christ, in exchange for the spirit of Satan. (John 15:4-7;1 Cor 6:15-17; 2 Cor 11:3; 2 Pet 1:10; Rev 2:4; 8:10;13:11)
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:12-14
In order to “rule on the earth”, God’s priests must be on the earth. If we can shed the false belief that once the 144,000 are sealed in “heaven” they will remain there, we are then able to grasp how such “heavenly” angel/messenger/priests will be found ruling, teaching, and helping God’s future children on the earth. (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 1:14; Rev 5:9,10)
We can comprehend God’s “new creation” as having two “births”; one by fleshly parents through Adam and Eve, (Gen 2:7) and one by spiritual parents. (John 3:3,5; 1 Cor 15:50; John 15:45; 20:22; Gal 4:26)
Once Jesus was resurrected, he appeared many times to his disciples in the flesh; and just as easily, disappeared into the spirit realm. His example set the precedence of what it means to be a “new creation”. (Mark 16:12; John 21:14; 1 Cor 15:3-8)
By combining this event with Pearl Doxsey's help from her article, “Who are the gods?”, we can visualize the 144,000 “angels” present not only in the spirit realm, but on earth as well:
The sons of God ("gods") inherit the promises given to Abraham. What promises are these?
"I will make you very fruitful (John 15:8) I will make nations of you (Rev 5:9,10), and kings will come from you (Rev 20:4; 1:5; 3:21; 19:16,15; 2:26,27)".
“Jacob had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.
There above it stood the Lord, and he said: "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying
(Ps 37:29; Heb 2:5,16; Gal 3:29; Heb 11:8-10; 13:14; Rev 21:2; Heb 12:22,23; Luke 10:20) (Gen.17:6).
Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring (Rev 22:2). I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go (Matt 28:20), and I will bring you back to this land (Rev 21:7).
I will not leave you (John 14:18) until I have done what I have promised you (John 16:22). Jacob was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place (Heb 12:22,23,28)! This is none other than the house of God (1 Cor 3:9,16; Isa 56:7; Eph 2:19,10); this is the gate of heaven (Rev 11:6; Matt 16:19; Rev 3:12; John 10:9; 2 Cor 5:20)." (Gen.28:12-15,17)
"Jesus added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open (Luke 24:32; Rev 2:17; Matt 13:11; Rev 4:1; 1:1)
(John 3:12; 1 Cor 2:12,13; Col 3:2), and the angels of God ascending and descending (Heb 12:22; Eph 2:6; Rev 3:21) "on* (Greek--*"in service to") the Son of Man.” (John 1:51)
The "angels" (Lit. Greek, "messengers" – Isa 43:10,21; 1 Pet 2:9; Mal 2:7; Acts 1:8) referred to here, could not have served before the time of Christ (John 3:13)
Jesus specifically said that they are in service on "the Son of Man" (1 Cor 4:1).
The "Son of Man" is Jesus in the flesh (John 1:14). Therefore, these angels serve Christ, after his coming down from heaven.
To be a messenger of Christ ("ambassador") who harbors God's spirit of life within...
who has been made new (Rom 12:2; 8:11) as a part of God's new creation (2 Cor 5:17) by means of incorruptible seed, the Word of God (1 Pet 1:23; Luke 8:11)...
…who has been reborn as a Son of the Most High (John 3:3,5; Rom 8:16,17,19,28-30)...
who has been made an immovable pillar in the eternal heavenly Temple of God (Rev 3:12; Prov 9:1; Jer 1:18)...
...is a "god" (Ps 82:6; Rom 8:14; 1 Cor 8:5).
I do hope readers here find this information to be a personal turning point as it was for me, in learning that both Christ and the 144,000 kings and priests/ Bride of Christ, will have access to heaven as well as on earth, and living among God’s future children in the Kingdom.
“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” Matt 5:14
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. Rev 21:1-3
“But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple” Rev 21:22
And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Rev 22:3-5
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16
Pearl Doxsey: (type in her name and the title of the article in the search bar. The link should appear)
“End of the New Covenant”
“Those not anointed – what benefit now?”
“The Holy City”
PLEASE SEE AND ENJOY, “The Holy City” - http://pearl-holycity.blogspot.com/
Pearl Doxsey, “End of the New Covenant”
Those not anointed-what benefit now? - http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/04/i-received-two-questions-1.html
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.” (Heb.1:6)
"Jesus will again, be brought into the world. At that time, the totality of his angels/messengers, will worship him... and be in service to, the Son of Man." Pearl Doxsey
We do have very good reasons, the math for 1914 wouldn't work out otherwise
Yes, I think we would laugh. After all, messing around with numbers to "fit something you want it to fit" sounds pretty cultish. When looking at this subject again, in light of Br. Splane's talk about types and antitypes, and how he said that (paraphrased) we have to make sure that when we are talking about types, that they are genuine types, because the word of God says they are puts a whole different slant on it. Then the idea is enforced even further when he says who is to decide if a person or event is a type, if the word of God doesn't say anything about it and he quotes Br. Shroeder: ( We need to exercise great care when applying accounts in the Hebrew Scriptures as prophetic patterns or types if these accounts are not applied in the Scriptures themselves).
Therefor reading the account in Daniel 4 without any preconceived ideas, I see these main lessons:
verse 17 "This is by the decree of watchers, and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.” Lesson: (quite self explanatory really) Jehovah can do what he wants because he is the ultimate sovereign.
verse 27 "Therefore, O king, may my counsel be acceptable to you. Turn away from your sins by doing what is right, and from your iniquity by showing mercy to the poor. It may be that your prosperity will be extended". Lesson: Listen to Jehovah and do right, otherwise Jehovah will discipline you.
verse 37 “Now I, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, am praising and exalting and glorifying the King of the heavens, because all his works are truth and his ways are just, and because he is able to humiliate those who are walking in pride. Lesson: similar to above, and also proof that Jehovah carries out his discipline.
The reasoning put forward as to why this particular chapter of Daniel (4) has greater meaning (paraphrased from WT October 2014) is that the book of Daniel has a central theme, that of God's Kingdom, and keeps pointing forward to the establishment of that Kingdom under the rulership of his Son, Jesus. For example what it says in Daniel 2:44: "“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever.”
I can see that Daniel Ch 2 is talking about Neb's. dream of the statue, representing subsequent rulerships, and that during the feet period God's Kingdom will come. In my opinion this is one valid and definite description of when the Kingdom will come. Then Chapters 7 and 8 are full of cryptic beasts, Chapter 9 prophesy about the coming of the Messiah including his cutting off, chapter 11 more cryptic descriptions, this time involving the king of the north and south, and the last chapter (12) the time of the end with Michael standing up. I need an encoder! I must admit, because of my more practical disposition, when we studied the Daniel book, I did not pay enough attention. My son was quite small and I had my hands full, and I can't even remember if we studied it again after that?
For example what are these numbers about?: Daniel 12:11 “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. 12 “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!" (It's ok, no need to answer, I can look it up myself).
,Sorry, I was being confusing. I didn't mean 607 was special. I meant what happened when counting 2520 years from that date, I meant that 1914 was a very significant year.
(have to go, will carry on later)
My daughter would play her album Time After Time, over and over. When I found out that Eva Cassidy had already died when the album came out, it kind of made a few of the songs sound even more "haunting" than they already were.