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TrueTomHarley

If You Are Going to be Unjust, Do It Big Time

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TrueTomHarley -
James Thomas Rook Jr. -
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I am of the unusual opinion that if you are going to ban Jehovah's Witness activity is Russia, then it is a good thing, not a bad thing, to also ban the New World Translation and seize the branch headquarters building. Each drags in people who might not otherwise care.
 
Human rights people protest when Witness activity is banned, but it is partly offset by: 'well, they ARE a pain and they DO call unannounced at inconvenient times.
 
But when you ban the Bible - even ringleader Dvorkin thought that was going too far. It plainly is a Bible; he doesn't like it, but it plainly is one. His country looks like a nation of goons. He is as if to say: 'we cut them off from U.S. organizational and monitory support. That's enough. Break both their legs and they will die! You don't ban the Bible as well, which only make us look like a country where Fred Flintstone is chief.
 
I say ban it for exactly that reason.
 
The academic community couldn't believe it. The Russian expert witness to the Court, an ex-JW, has an education that "doesn't correspond to anything" (mathematics degree) and she just "copies any sort of nonsense off the internet." She had the court harrumphing that it doesn't say 'Bible' on the cover, but 'Sacred Scriptures,' also that it said Hebrew and Greek Scriptures instead of Old and New Testament. She had them perturbed over its use of the name Jehovah, and then it was pointed out the Russian Orthodox version also uses the name.
 
They got concerned that the Jehovah's Witness Bible doesn't support the Trinity and our people showed them that the Russian Orthodox translation also doesn't support it. The Court is plodding about in matters of which it is completely ignorant, Dvorkin fumed, and it shows painfully.
 
Good. Let the record reflect that.
 
The decision regarding the branch headquarters draws in the potentially much more influential business community. Said the Witness representative:
 
"Of course, we will appeal this decision. It is based on nothing, except the desire of the prosecutor's office to simply seize the property. We did not hear a single legal argument. This is expropriation. Russia encourages foreign business to invest in the country, but what investments can be made if the property is not protected and can be seized at any time?"
 
I say it is a good thing for them to seize the building. It cannot serve its intended function anyway. Let it serve its new purpose of calling attention to lawlessness. One Russian news source opined they will ultimately give it back accompanied by huge financial damage penalties. Witnesses will take the matter to the ECHR and also, since the Watchtower Society is American-based, "the American one," whatever that means.
 
If you are going to go unjust, do it big time and make sure everyone knows. The Governing Body saw to it that the initial trial was videotaped in the largest venue possible. That video is widely available. At one point the Russian judge asked the Ministry of Justice whether it had prepared for the trial, so unsupported was their case. In the end, he did what he knew he had to do if he wanted to keep his job, but his interaction with them clearly exposed a sham system, which was repeated at the appeal, repeated again at the trial over the Bible, and again at the hearing to confiscate the branch headquarters.
 
And it was repeated in the case in the imprisonment without trial of Dennis Christensen, the first Witness jailed post-ban, and a Danish citizen. The Ministry of Justice insists he is a dangerous criminal. His last religious act was to preside over a typical Bible study at the Kingdom Hall. His last non-religious act was to build a playground (he is a carpenter) for the children. His second-to-last non-religious act was to take part in a public park cleanup for which the congregation received a certificate of appreciation from the town officials.
 
A lot of people don't like Jehovah's Witnesses - they are a hot-button topic in several ways. But they do know that rule by law and even common sense is a good thing, not a bad thing and when they see it so arbitrarily violated, they get more worked up than they would over Witnesses themselves.

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7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

FOR YOU ... it's all a Play, and you are but actors following a script for their entertainment.

It is a play for everyone. Christians "are a theatrical spectacle to the world," of which "the scene of the world is changing." The sooner that is realized, the better off everyone is. It is not the present life that Paul describes as the real life.

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    • By Jack Ryan
      One of the reasons The New World Translation is not called The Bible was because the word Bible is not found in the holy scriptures but I can not find anything online....
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      the translators of the NWT are "diabolical deceivers." (Julius Mantey in discussion with Walter Martin)
       
      Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
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    • By Jesus.defender
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      (Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?
      (A): I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
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      (Q) : Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
      ( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...
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    • By Jesus.defender
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      The Watchtower Bible calls the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures one of the best translations to be found. But is it a translation or merely are gross distortions of the actual Greek and Hebrew manuscripts based on these men’s opinions. The FORWARD of the New World Translation in 1961 edition, on page 5 states, "It is a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, into modern speech ... The translators who have a fear and love of the divine Author of the Holy Scriptures feel especially a responsibility toward Him to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible." Have their translators been responsible? Are they true to the original languages?
       
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      (Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?
      (A): I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
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      Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.92)
      (Q) : Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
      ( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...
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      (Q): Why the secrecy?
      (A): Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.
       
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      The facts speak for themselves. The real reason would be that the translators could not be checked since they had no qualifications and anyone investigating this could not find anyone to assume responsibility for the translation. A shrewd plan indeed.
       
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      The men who make up the "translation committee" were self-appointed men lacking any adequate schooling or background in biblical languages unable to function as Bible Translators. Their purpose was not to translate the Scripture into a modern version of the Bible but to justify their theology to their people and have ammunition against Christianity as it is practiced today.
       
      The New World Translation is a fabrication with no scholarship involved. It was specifically created to make the Bible agree their preconceived theology. It was made for their people to believe WT doctrine and uphold their false belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel not God.
       
    • By Jesus.defender
      Terrible translation.
       
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      Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest."
      British scholar H.H. Rowley stated, "From beginning to end this volume is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated."
      "Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they (Watchtower) had misquoted me in support of their translation." (These words were excerpted from the tape, "Martin and Julius Mantey on The New World Translation", Mantey is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Kingdom interlinear Translation)
      Dr. Julius Mantey , author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, calls the NWT "a shocking mistranslation." "Obsolete and incorrect." "It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 'The Word was a god.'"
      "I have never read any New Testament so badly translated as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Greek Scriptures.... it is a distortion of the New Testament. The translators used what J.B. Rotherham had translated in 1893, in modern speech, and changed the readings in scores of passages to state what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach. That is a distortion not a translation." (Julius Mantey , Depth Exploration in The New Testament (N.Y.: Vantage Pres, 1980), pp.136-137)
      the translators of the NWT are "diabolical deceivers." (Julius Mantey in discussion with Walter Martin)
       
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    • By Kurt
      August 18 2017
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      Commenting on the ruling shortly after it was issued, David A. Semonian, international spokesman for Jehovah’s Witnesses at their world headquarters in New York, states: “It’s impossible to comprehend how a court can justify the decision to ban the Bible. It’s absurd that a court would outlaw the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, a Bible respected by scholars around the world, which has not only been distributed in hundreds of millions of copies but also has been translated into over 150 languages. Just how far will Russia’s resistance to religious freedom go? We certainly hope that respect for sacred texts will prevail when we pursue this case on appeal.”
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      With the decision to ban the NWT, the Russian Federation has assumed a hostile posture that should concern more than just the Witnesses. According to Willy Fautré, director and co-founder of Belgium-based Human Rights Without Frontiers: “Any translation of any other historical sacred book – the Koran of the Muslims, the Tanakh of the Jews, and the Kangyur of the Buddhists – can now be declared illegal in Russia, and any sacred book of any other religion is now vulnerable to state censorship in Russia.”
      source HRWF<<click
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      Trial of Bible ends
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      Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 17 August 2017
       
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      Also JW.ORG:
      News Alerts
       
      BREAKING NEWS | Russian Court Bans New World Translation
       
      On August 17, 2017, the Vyborg City Court in Russia ruled to ban the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT). In Russia, it is illegal to ban a Bible. However, a court-appointed “expert study” claimed that the NWT is not a Bible. The decision to ban the NWT came even after the powerful testimony of experts and the fine argumentation of our brothers, proving undeniably that the NWT is a Bible. In spite of such obvious discrimination, Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide take comfort from Isaiah 40:8, “the word of our God endures forever.” We are appealing the decision.
    • By Kurt
      If you want to help about 200,000 of Russian Jehovah's Witnesses avoid being jailed on false, unjust, and absurd grounds, please join our campaign to promote the hashtag #StopJWBan across Twitter and any other social media. This would be our version of the global letter-writing campaign to Mr. Putin. You can post a suitable video (like this one), a piece from Jehovah's Witnesses websites, or anything you want to share, adding this hashtag. The more people will do it, the more likely it will appear in top Twitter trends, and this will create a powerful information wave. Ask power Twitter users and/or bloggers that you know to do the same. Don't stand apart, help us spread the word!

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    • By Micah Ong
      Yes our obedience to our almighty heavenly father is definitely an individual thing but why associate with an organisation that holds highly God's name, yet uses a hybrid name "Jehovah" which is made using the Tetragrammaton and then inserting vowel points using the vowels of Adonai?  This was popularised around the 1200's by a Catholic monk Raymundus Martini.
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      The Christian Greek scriptures do not even contain the divine name.  Run a search on "Jehovah" in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation on the JW Library app and you will find it comes back with '0' occurrences. 
      Yet the Watchtower takes it upon themselves to take away and add to what was already established in Koine Greek the original.
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      It is no secret that the New World Translation Translation uses Johannes Greber to back up doctrine in the NWT.                   
      Johannes Greber was a Catholic priest turned spiritist who translated the New Testament with the help of God’s “spirits.” He used his wife, who was a spirit-medium, to channel spirits to help translate difficult verses in the bible. His experiences with spirits and their communications with him are related in his book Communication with the Spirit World, published in 1932.
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      The Word
      A translation by a former Roman Catholic Priest, Johannes Greber, and (1937 edition) renders the second appearance of the word “god” in the sentence as “a god.”
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      "Keep testing whether you are in the faith"
      Agape Love
      John 8:32 "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
       
    • Guest Nicole
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      For their part, representatives of the Jehovah’s Witnesses said the witnesses had been prepared in advance for their testimony in the court.
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      Essence of the lawsuit
      In its lawsuit to outlaw the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Justice Ministry pointed to various violations in the organization’s activities revealed during a surprise inspection, including breaches of the Law on Counteracting Extremist Activities. The ministry has asked to recognize the organization and its 395 local branches as extremists, ban their activity and seize property.
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      https://www.therussophile.org/jehovahs-witnesses-former-members-tell-court-they-were-subjected-to-total-control.html/
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    • By Jack Ryan
      Google translate:
      The Christian Assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses
      April 1, 2017
      TO ALL MEETINGS
      Theme: Using the Synodal Translation of the Bible in New Conditions
      Dear brothers!
      From the bottom of our hearts, we want to thank you for your active participation in the campaign to write letters. Your participation in this campaign was a clear testimony of brotherly love in action (1 Peter 2:17). At the same time, we realize that the most important thing that we can do to support our brothers facing persecutions is to offer our prayers to Jehovah for them.(Read 1 Timothy 2: 1--4.)
      As already reported, the Ministry of Justice wants to impose a ban on the activities of the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia. If the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation decides to ban, this will negatively affect more than 175,000 of our brothers and sisters, on their honorable duty to carry God's words from door to door.
      Perhaps opponents think in this way to hinder the preaching work, but our main tool is the Bible, and we can participate even more diligently in the preaching work (1 Corinthians 15:58, Ephesians 6:17). Although the translation of the New World has helped us for many years to better understand the truth and carry the message of the Kingdom of God to other people, but in the new conditions that have arisen in Russia, we must start using the synodal translation of the Bible again.
      This is necessary to avoid accusations of distortion of God's word from the world of Satan and discourage our opponents until the verdict of the Supreme Court.
      Your brothers,
      A copy of the district overseers
      Note for coordinators of councils of elders.
      Please ensure that this letter is read at the next meeting on weekdays, and also at a weekend meeting. Do not post this
    • Guest Nicole
    • By Kurt
      RUSSIAN JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES LAUNCH HASHTAG IN SOCIAL NETWORKS BECAUSE OF THREAT OF BANNING THEIR ACTIVITY IN THE COUNTRY

      Portal-Credo.ru, 25 March 2017
       
      Late in March Russian Jehovah's Witnesses began a campaign for promoting on the Internet the hashtag #StopJWBan in order to attract attention to the threat of a ban on their confession. Thanks to the action, in just one day almost 20 thousand persons viewed on YouTube a video appeal of Vasily Kalin, the director of the Administrative Center of their confession, a Portal-Credo.ru correspondent reports.
       
      "They don't let us defend ourself in courts and they do not admit us to major news media. Only the Internet remains," the campaign on the website, stopjwban.blogspot.com, says.
       
      The action is actively connected to believers beyond the boundaries of the country. Twitter users from various countries have published on the aforementioned hashtag photographs of their own letters to Russian authorities, the American president, the United Nations, and other international organizations.
       
      The hearing in the Supreme Court of the RF on the lawsuit of the justice ministry is scheduled for 5 April, which requests declaring the religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses to be "extremist" and liquidating it. 
      ------------------

      Rights advocate fears criminalization of tens of thousands believers
      BAN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND DECLARATION OF THIS ORGANIZATION AS EXTREMIST VIOLATE FREEDOM OF RELIGION

      Echo of Moscow, 17 March 2017
       
      Consideration of the lawsuit of the Russian Ministry of Justice for ruling the "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" to be an extremist organization and for liquidating it and banning its activity on the territory of the country has been scheduled by the Supreme Court of the RF for 5 April
       
      Granting the lawsuit by the court will be an act that is unconstitutional and a violation of freedom of religious confession. This opinion was expressed on a broadcast of radio station Echo of Moscow by the director of the SOVA Center for News and Analysis, Alexander Verkhovsky.
       
      "Of course this violates freedom of religious confession, because there already have been many bans of local organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses and prohibition of their brochures, texts, and website.  And they are considered to be extremist simply because they themselves consider that their religion is best of all. Speaking frankly, this is a bit wild," he said.
       
      A. Verkhovsky emphasized that the ban of the Administrative Center will entail the automatic ban of all local organizations.
       
      "Believers are not going anywhere from this, they will all still gather together, and all this activity can be viewed as a criminal offense. I do not rule out that such measures will be applied. It will turn out that more than 100,000 persons will prove to be in some sense criminals although they do not intend to commit a crime. I think that somebody needs to intervene now. The prosecutor general's office has gone much too far," he concluded. 

      ------------------
      Another rights advocate speaks out for Jehovah's Witnesses
      AFTER THE BAN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES WE WILL GET 170,000 PRISONERS FOR FAITH IN RUSSIA

      Blog of Oleg Kozyrev, 17 March 2017
       
      The Ministry of Justice has requested closing the chief organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. The old accusations are extremism and other furious passions.
       
      Jehovah's Witnesses belong to the so-called new religions. Neither the traditional Christian confessions nor protestants acknowledge them as their own. Like Mormons, Jehovists incorporate some Christian teaching, but beyond that they add much of their own. The greatest criticism is evoked by the point that Jehovists, alone of the major confessions, simply take and rewrite the Bible in their own way. This is the so-called "New World Translation," in which everything that does not conform to the teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is casually corrected. Well, the doctrinal difference of Jehovists from ordinary Christians is great.
       
      At the same time, everybody recognizes that the Jehovah's Witnesses preach possibly more than all religious movements. Their life is, on the whole, pious. They do not drink, smoke, or take drugs, and they are faithful to their wives and husbands and are good fathers and mothers.
       
      On the personal level, all have different experiences of discourse with Jehovists. But on the whole their situation does not differ in any way from representatives of other confessions. Some Jehovists are more reserved and some are more congenial and social, generally like everybody.
       
      Problems with the surrounding setting and with the state arise for the Jehovists only on two issues. First, they do not accept blood transfusion, since they believe that this is a form of cannibalism. Second, they do not engage in politics, nor serve in the army, nor celebrate holidays.
       
      It is easiest to criticize Jehovists for refusing blood transfusion. But let's be honest, there are in the world thousands of various religions and many of them have various strange restrictions. Jehovists do not damage bodies, nor restrict nourishment for themselves and their children, nor practice monasticism and withdrawal from the world. They work, study, live, and proclaim. Why imprison them merely for their faith?
       
      I recall that even during World War II, Hitler was not able to break Jehovists by torture and concentration camps. Many of them perished in ovens and gas chambers, but they did not betray their faith and did not take up arms. I do not think that the Ministry of Justice will manage to frighten them if Hitler could not. We will get 170,000 (the approximate number of Jehovists in Russia) prisoners of conscience, who are imprisoned merely for faith. And there may be some number of additional broken fates.
       
      Christians have a dark cloud of criticisms of Jehovists. But that is our "disputes." Everything can be clarified through preaching, through criticism, through apologetics. Why involve the government? The Jehovists are not some kind of dark forest. They have been in the world for many years and they are in almost all countries. Let's admit that they are a rather ordinary religion. Sure, somebody is annoyed that they are ringing the doorbell. But if one realizes that among them there are former drug addicts and alcoholics who could ring the doorbell for entirely different reasons—then it is better to let the Jehovists ring the bell. For the fact that people are striving for a proper life—for that they should not be punished.
       
      There is also one other rather sticky issue. Because of their faith, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot, on principle, defend themselves in any way politically, since they do not participate in politics. They are not Mormons with their own state of Utah; they are not Disciples of Christ or Baptists with their own presidents leading the USA. In principle Jehovists do not have political forces that could protect them. And of course Christian confessions love to exploit these, who have such representation and who have their own teeth for this effect.
       
      I will not talk about other confessions. Perhaps if they were banned, their people would flee. But as to Jehovah's Witnesses, we know what will happen. The majority of them will not renounce their faith. So what then—send them to the camps? And repeat what the fascists did?
       
      Think about it: do we need to break the life of 170,000 persons?
       
    • By The Librarian
      This is Part 2 of a three-part series based on exclusive interviews with noted scholars of religion, politics, and sociology, as well as experts in Soviet and post-Soviet studies. Source
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    • If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate?  That is not logical. It depends on what you define as own purposes, private purposes, public purposes, necessities, etc.  I think you really should be more thankful to be associated with the organization and what it does for us.
    • My donations are always by check, and written thereon is "for local needs". It's like paying taxes, some of which are used to make hydrogen bombs, and ICBMs. Not my problem. Jesus and the Apostles needed NONE of those things you mentioned, Arauna. If you are NOT inspired of God, as the GB admits they are not ( February 2017 Watchtower), you do need all of those things you mentioned. They are actually essential, as I would freely admit. .... and HEY!, I am just guessing about all of this ... as is everyone else. And Arauna .... did you get NOTHING out of the "Follow Jesus" Assemblies? Jesus set the example . We are either following that example, or ..... WE ARE NOT. The fact of the matter is that the GB DOES use the billions for their own purposes. but, I am, as you stated, "no one to criticize" ... as I do not follow Jesus' example either. If I had that kind of money, I would buy a Chinook double rotor helicopter, instead of Rolex watches, and cartoons of Caleb and Sophia, etc. uh ... for Witnessing on beautiful Pacific Islands, of course ....    
    • Just one question for you:  when you go to meeting or field service you get to use many videos that were made to be easily accessible for all ages and peoples.  Do you have any clue what equipment costs?   Many poor congregations in Africa receive projectors from the organization because they cannot afford it. They do still print bibles and watchtowers etc. Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers? You have a budget to fulfill your responsibilities at home.....dont you?  Why not broaden out and see that they also need money to provide services in almost 1000 languages?   I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism...  ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes....  They are always in need of funds to make it stretch further..... because we do get all our spiritual needs fulfilled without cost.  You need not give any donation if you feel they waste it.  You can use all amenities without giving a dime!   
    • I strongly suspect that Jehovah's Holy Spirit is given in direct proportion to the amount of Spirit you actually need.... considering that Jesus Christ and the Apostles had NO Real Estate whatsoever, as part of their Organization, and only enough money for the days food, and to the best of my knowledge, just the clothes on their backs, they needed a lot ... and they received a lot of Holy Spirit. The Governing Body has billions of dollars in Real Estate, all over the world, and controls billions of dollars worth of money, to spend as they alone see fit. ... and dat's de fact, Jack. SOOooooo... they are on their own. ..... as are the great majority of us. I have SEEN Jehovah's Spirit build up and sustain several of the Anointed ones, who had no strength of resources of their own, and I suspect when it is needed ... actually NEEDED .. the rest of us "ground pounders" get it as well. That is just my guess of how it works ... no more. ...and I suspect it is INVERSELY proportional to how much you have naturally, WITHOUT Jehovah's intervention.       the formula for that is 1/x. There is probably a button on your pocket calculator for that.
    • Answer: Hatred borne of jealousy ... .... because the people  covering the Earth, outside of Adam and Eves' family, were NOT directly created beings of Jehovah, and did NOT have an opportunity to live forever ... ...and they KNEW that to be the case. That is why Cain was afraid that wherever he went in his enforced exile to wander the Earth, those evolved  humans would kill him. I do not "have Polaroids", but that idea solves a LOT of problems, including millions of tons of hard fossil evidence, all over the Earth, that only the willfully stupid would say means nothing ... and it solves the problem of who Cain married.
    • I am not so sure that Colossians speaking about coincidence.  I never thought this way, but questions comes after reading this Colossians verses. What sort of "created lordships or governments or authorities" already existed in the heavens and on earth, especially in time period before, in the moment and after Adam and Eve were created? Have some idea?  New born human society was made of two. I see, in Genesis, how Adam had sort of "power" over animals. Eve had free will and autonomy, just like Adam. Only after Cain's crime we see how he had big fear over his life because there was possibility, that some people (who they are, where they lived, what structure they created??) will kill him because of what  he has done.  I see here some issues. God didn't punished Cain (God is Lord, Government and Authority). Adam didn't punished Cain (Adam was his father, but he didn't show he had any power over his son). Some unknown people, living who knows where have some thoughts about killing Cain, because he murdered Abel. Why would they be interested in this Adam's family "business"? And why they were interested in "punishing" Cain?  What sort of structure, legislative (lordships or governments or authorities) existed inside this outside group, tribe, society, that show us how they had something what Adam and Eve family, tribe hadn't ?
    • My above comment was an illustration.  If you find it a joke you have not thought it through. It illustrates the need for "barriers" to drive on a road safely and also to drive through life. To not tread on each others toes we need barriers which are not crossed. When they are crossed society does not function properly. There are people here who hate JWs..... so do not take them seriously.
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