Netherlands - JW and paedophilia problem

[Srecko Sostar]

"Some 80 reports of sexual abuse involving the Jehovah’s Witnesses community have been made over the past month, Trouw said on Thursday.

 

Justice minister Sander Dekker has already said that the (JW)church should look to the example of the Catholic church to dealing with complaints about sexual abuse."

 

"We are going to study the measures of the Catholic Church."

- Michel van Hilten, spokesman Jehovah's Witnesses

source;  

DutchNews.nl: Dozens come forward to report abuse by Jehovah’s Witnesses http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/12/dozens-come-forward-to-report-abuse-by-jehovahs-witnesses/

https://www.trouw.nl/religie-en-filosofie/minister-dekker-jehova-s-getuigen-moeten-misbruikbeleid-onder-de-loep-nemen-~a796d271/

[Matthew9969]

Rut-roh..Jehovah's witnesses have the upmost hatred for the catholic church and catholics.

[Space Merchant]

9 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Rut-roh..Jehovah's witnesses have the upmost hatred for the catholic church and catholics.

Well majority of Christendom does (share in the dislike/hatred) others just dislike or consider it wrong, but do their best to speak truth to those in the Catholic Camp. Even greater now for reasons being what took place in late October 2017 caused an uproar in the Christian communities of all.

In a sense, the Reformation is a collection of Religious Leaders who comply with what Pope Francis is doing, so it is understandable from the perspective of Jehovah's Witnesses.

That being said, ever group has it problems for we are all imperfect, the very thing that binds us all together because we inherit such from Adam and Eve.

[Srecko Sostar]

21 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Rut-roh..Jehovah's witnesses have the upmost hatred for the catholic church and catholics.

If i recall correctly, last big campaign against Catholic and Christendom was been in WT magazines in the decade 1980-1990.

[Srecko Sostar]

On other hand, in last period (decade or more) of time WT JWorg with its representatives and lawyers going together with other churches in defending some religious rights and Court cases when want defend JW religious rights. They siting together in OSCE conferences too. 

 By that they are also part of Worlds religious system, don't they?   :))

[Space Merchant]

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

On other hand, in last period (decade or more) of time WT JWorg with its representatives and lawyers going together with other churches in defending some religious rights and Court cases when want defend JW religious rights. They siting together in OSCE conferences too. 

 By that they are also part of Worlds religious system, don't they?   :))

Defending of one's religion doesn't make them part of what you claim they are, in addition, world religion leaders in general are part of the Israeli Interfaith and said members of the Interfaith NGO are sponsored by ECOSOC and or UNICEF (any sponsor affiliate that enables one to aid UN in decision making), putting them in the chair when it comes to UN affiliations and decision making, NGOs who are not sponsored and or don't meet DPI criteria, remaining as a associate member, don't have that luxury. The other thing is, Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as several denominations are not gullible, examples being the Religious Reformation of October 2017

That being said, in a short and simple answer: Because the Jehovah's Witnesses and or any religious denomination who attended the OSCE, does not automatically make them part of the World's Religious System, UNLESS, said religious groups are the one's pulling the strings behind everything and aiding that of Superpowers, governments, UN decisions, and the like. Plus it wouldn't make sense that the Jehovah's Witnesses helped in making decisions either besides defending religious/human rights, for France has robbed them financially, Russia has been a Dog on Bone when it comes to the religious denomination of JWs, as well as the UN's Anti-Semitic nature to some religious groups (Members of Islam, Jewish, other from Christian denominations, including JWs) in the past.

Defending rights doesn't make one part of the World's religious system, evident through early church Fathers and even students of Jesus' Apostles.

I have paraphrased the below to keep it somewhat short instead of literally posting a page of information.

First you need to understand what it means, OSCE means this: Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation_in_Europe

The OSCE conference the representatives of civil society sit with governments on an equal footing. Its extensive attendance list also included representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses; individuals from Poland, Russia, Germany, and or any persons in the European area that attended.

Not sure of the actual date, but if I am not mistaken it took place around September 24 - October 5, 2007.

The Jehovah's Witnesses made something fairly clear in one of their Awake magazines from 1997, whereas the topic in question says this: OSCE—What Is It? Will It Succeed?

It says:

Quote

AFTER World War II, a power struggle arose between Western democratic capitalist countries and the Eastern Communist Soviet bloc. Each bloc developed its own security organization: the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in the West and the Warsaw Pact in the East.

By 1975 the Cold War had thawed enough for 35 States, including the United States and Russia, to sign what came to be called the Helsinki Agreement. The Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) was born. It was a multilateral forum for dialogue and negotiation between the two blocs.

At the Budapest Summit in 1994, the CSCE changed its name to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). Today, it is composed of 54 participating States, including the United States, Canada, and all the countries of the former Soviet Union.

Its Objective

The objective of the member nations of the OSCE is to guarantee the security of Europe as well as to foster the implementation of human rights, disarmament, democratic freedoms and the management of regional conflict.

A summit meeting of the OSCE was held in Lisbon, Portugal, on December 2-3, 1996. At first, attention was focused on NATO, since several NATO members, including the United States, are in favor of the expansion of NATO to include more nations from Central and Eastern Europe. But rather than support the enlargement of NATO to include former Eastern bloc allies, Russia and some of her former Eastern bloc allies want the OSCE to become the forum for matters of European security.

The Russian prime minister, Viktor Chernomyrdin, said at the meeting: “We are in favor of strengthening the OSCE, which is the only place in Europe where all States can work together. It is the best international place for discussing security and defense.”

The radiant afternoon sun seemed to create a climate of general optimism at the close of the summit, despite the comments of the press regarding its nebulous results. Whatever success or failure the OSCE may realize, peace lovers everywhere can be assured that true peace and security will soon be realized earth wide under the rule of God’s Kingdom.—Psalm 72:1, 7, 8. —g97 8/22 p. 31 OSCE—What Is It? Will It Succeed?

From Jehovah's standpoint, is it alright for a worshiper of his to attend conferences of a worldly political organization, such as the OSCE, and address its delegates? Regarding Eusebius (Well known Church Father, best imho), who is highly regarded by many as "The Father of Church History," and who attended the Council of Nicaea in the year 325 C.E., convened by Roman Emperor Constantine, a A Watchtower article (2003, 7/15 , pg. 29-31) states the following:

Quote

Why did Eusebius cave in at the Council of Nicaea and support an unscriptural doctrine? Did he have political objectives in mind? Why did he attend the council in the first place? Although all the bishops were summoned, only a fraction—300—actually attended. Was Eusebius perhaps concerned about preserving his social status? And why did Emperor Constantine regard him very highly? Eusebius sat at the right hand of the emperor at the council.

Apparently Eusebius ignored Jesus’ requirement that His followers be “no part of the world.” (John 17:16; 18:36) “Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God?” asked the disciple James. (James 4:4) And how appropriate is Paul’s admonition: “Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers”! (2 Corinthians 6:14) May we remain separate from the world as we “worship [the Father] with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24. —w03 7/15 p. 31 Eusebius—“The Father of Church History”?

The article, quoting from James 4:4, rightly notes that the friendship with the world is enmity with God, and if this applied to Eusebius back in 325 C.E. then it certainly applies also to Christians today, including the Jehovah's Witnesses. As the scripture goes on to tell us, "Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God."

There is good reason why God has told his people not to put their trust 100% in the nobles among them, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." - Psalms 146:3-5; compare to Jeremiah 17:5-8, 13.

The leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses know full well that one cannot be partaking of the table of God and the table of demons, without inciting Jehovah to jealousy -1 Corinthians. 10:20-22.

We personally do not know or aware of the things being done behind closed doors by the ones we look at to as our leaders, but we do know that everything is seen and heard by God, him with whom we have an accounting. Examples of this is Moses Sister Miriam and Aaron, even though Moses wasn't with them as they spoke, but God knows, God's eyes is on all who walk the earth, on the creatures that roam the lands and in the sea, in addition, this reflects Isaiah's prophecy rings for God's people today based on Isaiah 9:15-17.

Information on the Reformation:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41817418

Note: I will not go into detail of what it signifies, but this has caused mass concern for those within Christianity, well those who hasn't submitted themselves to side with the world religious leaders whereas for it's intentions and goals with aid from the UN. This event has put most Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses to have a common opponent, even some who are neutral with JWs share this common enemy.

What can be said is the Reformation is something that is not a good thing, to the world leaders and religious leaders of false teachings, yes, but never to those who know the bible, those who know God and Jesus, they won't fall to tactics like that so easily.

As for World Leaders, they are all join together, thanks to the UN, they were able to start their conquest for Peace.

Be careful of whom you cast your stones at.

 

Source: http://perimeno.ca/Letters_1107_OSCE.htm

 

[Srecko Sostar]

@Space Merchant  thanks for comment. With what you said and gave several quotes maybe is suitable also this verse,

Isaiah 30, for example:

1"Woe to the rebellious children," declares the LORD, "Who execute a plan, but not Mine, And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, In order to add sin to sin; 

2Who proceed down to Egypt Without consulting Me, To take refuge in the safety of Pharaoh And to seek shelter in the shadow of Egypt!

Perhaps we can derive at least two interpretations on this,  opposite of course :))

1) It is religious or political adultery to make connections and deals with "Gods enemies" (you are aware how WT explains three main evil force under satan power, this are; all false religions, politics and trade system. Well what have "clean JHVH nation" with OSCE or other similar worlds instruments for fixing worlds problems, when JW wait JHVH to fix all problems on HIS terms, not on this "old system" terms?)   

2) It is JHVH plan for WT to have mutual plans with this world how  to improve and secure religious freedoms?

3) Is this/such involving and WT participate just test in which JHVH can see what is in the heart of WT JWorg leaders aka GB?   

[Space Merchant]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

@Space Merchant  thanks for comment. With what you said and gave several quotes maybe is suitable also this verse,

Isaiah 30, for example:

1"Woe to the rebellious children," declares the LORD, "Who execute a plan, but not Mine, And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit, In order to add sin to sin; 

2Who proceed down to Egypt Without consulting Me, To take refuge in the safety of Pharaoh And to seek shelter in the shadow of Egypt!

Perhaps we can derive at least two interpretations on this,  opposite of course :))

1) It is religious or political adultery to make connections and deals with "Gods enemies" (you are aware how WT explains three main evil force under satan power, this are; all false religions, politics and trade system. Well what have "clean JHVH nation" with OSCE or other similar worlds instruments for fixing worlds problems, when JW wait JHVH to fix all problems on HIS terms, not on this "old system" terms?)   

2) It is JHVH plan for WT to have mutual plans with this world how  to improve and secure religious freedoms?

3) Is this/such involving and WT participate just test in which JHVH can see what is in the heart of WT JWorg leaders aka GB?   

In short, preventing the message from the bible from being known (Freedom of Worship/To practice a Faith) will result in those of a Christian faith to stop anything that would silence any knowledge and or teaching of God.

Religious or Political Adultery is when one, or in this case, a faith, be it Muslim, Christian, etc becomes affiliated with global decisions that has that has big outcomes, examples being the UN conference, The Reformation of October 2017, Religion Summit with Religious Leaders from around the world who "support government/organizational views' i. e. siding with the US on the decision made in regards of Jerusalem. As far as I am aware, The Watchtower's views. From a Christendom based standpoint, these things are deemed evil, however, when it comes to protecting God's word, one must not just ignore, for Satan himself will do everything in his power to cease any knowledge of God from being known and or falsifying God and who he is, examples being the Teaching that God is a 3-in-1 or that Jesus is God, things of that nature. Just like early church Fathers, as well as followers and students, they do defended themselves via invitation, like what is historical displayed through the Council of Nicea. In this situation, The Jehovah's Witnesses had representatives attend OSCE via invitation. All in all, there statements only proves that they were there due to dealing with human rights issues as well as religious ones. You can find their statements with a quick search here: http://www.osce.org/gsearch?qr=Jehovahs+witnesses+statement

They didn't have mutual plans, they're statement, as to other faiths at OSCE were to speak on religious issues. in Olden times, It didn't stop the students of John, Peter, and Paul or those Pre-Nicene Christians prior to and after the council. Believe it or not, religious folk, long before all the denominations existed, did defend bible truth and their followers when time calls for it, especially in the realm of Christian persecution (since the world of Christianity today see human rights violations as a major issue, thus such meetings even exist). From a Christian's point of view, they will do what is needed in God's eyes to make sure that the gospel continues to spread and that nothing would cease the message from getting out. In this day and age, not only it is a matter of getting the gospels out, but also in regards of Human Violations and Rights.

God does see what is in the hearts of man. He also sees what those who follow would do in order to preserve truths, protect its followers, and making sure the gospel reaches people; not ceases, or in this case, what the New Testament have stated on when the gospel spreading will cease. Such a thing cannot be stopped by Man, hence why it is understandable that they attempt to do something to prevent any harm to missionary work or the teaching of scripture. As for the OSCE, as stated before, they were invited to these meetings, just as others who were invited to speak their mind.

At the end, for example, if I had the power to attempt to shut down Christianity, denomination after denomination, surely to prevent any mistreatment of members, as well as halting any knowledge of God, you'd probably be the first to accept invitation from those who seek to stop my actions, especially if I had the resources to halt freedom to practice worship/religion that would effect a great multitude of people, perhaps ban and suspend those who get in my way, you would  know that even God wouldn't want such a thing to happen, let alone Jesus himself or the Angels who also watches Man on earth. The thing is here, Christian minorities will do what is needed to prevent such persecution being done to them, especially if it hinders one's ability to freely practice their faith and worship of God. Also if I won in that example I have given, the first course of action was to tag warrants for investigation for any man or woman who is caught uttering anything from scripture, should I succeeded in this example (or my own little parable if you will), Christians would consider my actions vile, perhaps even far worse. In this sense, it is a reality that some face today, even Jehovah's Witnesses (mainly in the Asian and European countries).

Being representatives at the OSCE isn't strongest argument against Jehovah's Witnesses. The presentations are to the OSCE to promote religious freedom, an activity in itself the Christian denominations are 100% open about, even Jehovah's Witnesses. They openly go to court and meet with politicians if it will promote freedom of worship. 

 

I myself know if God doesn't want his word to be lost, halted, falsified and or tarnished, he would use his people to correct these wrongs and or speak up to prevent any of such from happening.

 

My other sources, the ones I left out from my previous post:

http://www.osce.org/odihr/268401?download=true

http://perimeno.ca/TheEuropeanAssociationofJW - Egypt.pdf

http://perimeno.ca/JW - statement to the OSCE Sept - Oct 2008.pdf

 

Final note: Paul confronted Cesar, not only making the gospel known, which was also mentioned on Euseblus's documents.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Final note: Paul confronted Cesar,

Paul was on the accused's bench. He sought for Caesars protection. He did not come to Rome to represent Christians as a representative of the Church, but as a defendant. 

Another question about Paul. Would he also seek, appeal for Caesar's Law if Jews and/or Romans officials in Palestine looked for written or oral reports about criminal acts that happened inside Jews people Christians congregations of those times?

[Space Merchant]

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Paul was on the accused's bench. He sought for Caesars protection. He did not come to Rome to represent Christians as a representative of the Church, but as a defendant. 

Another question about Paul. Would he also seek, appeal for Caesar's Law if Jews and/or Romans officials in Palestine looked for written or oral reports about criminal acts that happened inside Jews people Christians congregations of those times?

Paul was a prisoner who was to appeal to Caesar, yes, but was told to make the gospel known regardless when an angel spoke to him to get the gospel out in Rome and to Caesar (stand before Caesar). This was also brought up in Eusebius, Historia Ecclesiastica, whereas it is mentioned that  Paul successfully defended himself and continue onward to preach the gospel, eventually going to Rome a second time, only to this time be condemned by the malevolent ruler.

If such a case came to that as mentioned, Paul would speak, however those for those who have committed any vile act inside a church, Paul would, or he would instruct the leaders of the church to remove the member(s) who have committed something bad, especially if the person is unrepentant.

In the end, this is in terms of defending one's faith and the freedom to preach the gospel, Paul would not just sit there and accept that the gospel of God should be halted permanently, he will attempt to make his opinions of the matter known, as for those who have done something bad among the church, Paul has mentioned on what to do with wrongdoers in the among them. As for if Paul would defend his brothers and sisters. From Paul's perspective, he would have done anything to make sure the gospel has been preached and never cease, and he doesn't seem like the man to have given up easily or keep silent, especially when threaten, this man was courageous.

Paul instructed the Christians to obey the Law of high powers and to be good citizens regardless of the type of character the leaders have. However, persecution during those times got evidently worse, even to the point whereas Christians who gave into persecution and or given up in faith began to betray their brothers. Paul, as well as the Christians who listened, would never give in to persecution and they won't curse God or denounce  their faith in him as well as Christ on the spot.

Christians in the past have suffered persecution for their faith, even fighting to prevent any halt in their preaching or speaking of God's Kingdom. If Paul was alive today, he would be among the many who will do whatever it takes to defend God's message and prevent it from stopping due to heavy persecution from Man. Which makes you think, if every Christains was persecuted and had given up, I doubt no one would have really known who God is, or Jesus.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Paul instructed the Christians to obey the Law

Thanks for comment

Does under this instruction about obeying the secular government, also is included that, from church leaders of WT to every single elder in congregation, give full cooperation with governmental officers (police, court, various services...) and giving, showing notes and documents to them in purpose that they, as one who is/are "God's servants who wear sword to execute...." can decide about wrongdoers if some acts of church members is not only breach of "membership rules", but it is breaking secular law too?   

[Space Merchant]

On 1/14/2018 at 3:37 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Thanks for comment

Does under this instruction about obeying the secular government, also is included that, from church leaders of WT to every single elder in congregation, give full cooperation with governmental officers (police, court, various services...) and giving, showing notes and documents to them in purpose that they, as one who is/are "God's servants who wear sword to execute...." can decide about wrongdoers if some acts of church members is not only breach of "membership rules", but it is breaking secular law too?   

Yes, obeying the law (pay taxes, follow the rules, etc.), however when it comes to one's faith being put at risk or to cease, as was said before, it would prompt Christians to try and prevent this from happening, one of the reasons I posted that link to my source in regards to the church fathers and of OSCE, as well as the remarks about Paul by one of the most well known Fathers. The same can be said about early Christians who defended themselves when their faith has been threaten. The other link I provided stated nearly something similar of the like, which I didn't put in my post before.

The thing is with modern day churches, it is said they tend to police themselves sometimes, seeing if they can handle situations on their own and if things do get worse than outside authority will be needed, others have also address such situations or problems and even speaks on the mistake of members of a church who have done something wrong, each church and denomination varies on this subject, even to us Unitarians. There was actually something to this regard that was mentioned on this video I watched on YouTube a while back, if I find it I would post it here, the same thing was brought up too by the anti-religion groups that also spoke on those videos. So in short, yes churches are enabled to deal with internal issues, however, if such issues become problematic, aid from outside authorities is necessary. Some matters don't really become public and or it is briefly mentioned regardless if said church accepts aid from outside or decide to handle the situation internally. However, regardless of the problem, churches and or church leaders should address situations, publicly if they wish, if it is due to a problem with the church, a problem with a member, etc, so at least the people are aware of what is going on.This goes for conflicts in a church too, especially if a pastor or leader has multiple churches with a multitude of members. In our case us Unitarians, if a problem does take place, there would be internal investigation first, if something is deemed problematic, without causing tension in a church, we would go speak with authorities, especially if there is conflict or misconduct that would result in something bad, i. e. a member of a church wanting to/planning to inflict serious injury to someone in the same church. Even though churches have main leaders too, those who they appoint to a specific church and the like, pastors or deacons, they too are subjected to this, but each and every one of them handles situations differently than the next, not sure if the Jehovah's Witnesses are set up this way, assuming their leaders are pastors and that the elders are deacons, if that is it.

But in the realm of Human Rights, the attack of one's religion or belief, acts of antisemitism, attacks from the irreligion groups that affect those of a faith, things of the nature, it will most definitely result in members of  faith/denomination to petition anything of that nature that is done to them, especially if it is a ban, suspension or cease of worship of their faith, they'll fight/defend themselves, thus preventing the teaching of God from stopping. In regards of the OSCE, the meeting of people of faith who come as representatives of their faith, in this case, The Jehovah's Witnesses who had their representatives there, does not automatically make anyone there complying with government officials on decisions done in world affairs, but they come to make petitions known in terms of Human Rights, and what can be agreed upon to prevent their practice of worship is not hindered by other groups and or those who persecute said faith. Religion-wise, that is pretty much the core of OSCE. The usual OSCE meetings consist of representatives from each denomination that routinely attend conferences of the OSCE. During these conferences people of their faith sit together, apart from others who sit with their faith groups alongside government officials and representatives from other religions to discuss these issues.