Does the Governing Body live on-campus or off-campus?

[Space Merchant]

On 2/25/2018 at 1:57 PM, Witness said:

Allen, I am so very glad to see you use the same scriptures I repeatedly share with JWs. 

John 4:24; Acts 17:24

We can conclude by the words of Acts 17:24 that God’s House – His dwelling -  is his Temple NOT made with hands. And that Temple, as scripture verifies, would be in the hearts of the anointed Body of Christ. John 2:19-21; Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 21:14; 1 Cor 6:19-21  If we agree with this, then surely you can also plainly see the hypocritical teaching in this video.

https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/pub-jwb_201710_7_VIDEO

And this one:

https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/pub-pk_18_VIDEO

Since the Watchtower clearly exposes its idolatrous ways by calling meeting places, “God’s House”; basically, temples built with hands” (Acts 17:24), shouldn’t His true Temple/anointed ones question why God’s Temple is so defamed by substituting man-made buildings as more valuable than God’s Holy Temple made up of His "living stones"?  1 Pet 2:5,9

On the contrary, Acts 17:24 can easily be taken out of context by anyone, which you have just done easily, especially regarding that comment, for if we are to call a group hypocrites for building a house of worship, then all persons of all faiths are to be considered hypocrites for making temples with their hands and said temple is used for worship, if you take a shot like that, then you are taking a shot at all faiths, for was it not by the hands of men churches of all types are built, even the ones built by JWs? In addition to that the early Christians did meet in Temples and profess worship and servitude to God the Father, for that is where a majority of time is spent in terms of worship, as we see in scripture, including letters and the like being sent to brothers and sisters who do their worship inside these temples.

Another thing is regardless of the temple, the word "church" and or "congregation" literally means "group of worshipers".

Acts 17:24 points to this verse, 1 Kings 8:27, as well as the others but I will get to that shortly, as well, which reads:

“But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you; how much less this house that I have built!

God is that great he cannot dwell and or be contained in something a man has built. This alone also one of the reasons why many believe something incorruptible cannot become corruptible. Doesn't matter how many temples of true worship man builds, you can't contain God in them.

Yahweh has stated the following in this verse:

Isaiah 66:1 reads: Thus says the Lord [YHWH]: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?

Continuing form there, we also see the following in Chronicles to the same effect as to what God had said, but these verses below speak of God the Father:

2 Chronicles 2:6, 18-21 reads: (6) But who is able to build him a house, since heaven, even highest heaven, cannot contain him? Who am I to build a house for him, except as a place to make offerings before him? (18) “But will God indeed dwell with man on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, how much less this house that I have built! (19) Yet have regard to the prayer of your servant and to his plea, O Lord [YHWH] my God, listening to the cry and to the prayer that your servant prays before you, (20) that your eyes may be open day and night toward this house, the place where you have promised to set your name, that you may listen to the prayer that your servant offers toward this place. (21) And listen to the pleas of your servant and of your people Israel, when they pray toward this place. And listen from heaven your dwelling place, and when you hear, forgive.

Keep in mind, regarding John 4:24, that God is a Spirit, for he is not just the invisible Father, but also one who is incorruptible as well as being the Eternal Sovereign King. (2 Corinthians 3:17, 1 Timothy 1:17, Hebrews 11:27)

Another thing to note is that Jesus himself dwell in the very temple of his Father, sure it cannot contain God, but Jesus and those who dwell in the temple worship and express servitude to God, in addition to that, Jesus spent his time in the temples preaching the gospel and teaching the people about what God the Father, for the Temple was indeed a place of worship, a temple built by the hands of "man". For men at those times didn't just build temples for nothing, even those before Jesus was born on earth, temples for people to congregate in were met for worship, to offer sacrifice, etc. To ignore these things and not see the temple for what it is today clearly shows the mindset of the individual who expresses Acts 17:24 without even going to the bible to understand what it even means, but what to expect from people who quote but do not interpret, let alone thinking the scriptures have not been corrupted over time.

As for those dwelling in the temple, including Jesus, in addition to other temples with followers that dwell in them. What do they do exactly? John 4:24 pretty much says it all regarding their worship and to this day, this is what she, the temple, must do, for the church, the followers, are to worship God in spirit and in truth. As true Christians who have the knowledge of Jesus as well as God dwelling in us, we are a "A Living Sacrifice", for verse 24 points to Romans 12:1 (which also connects with 1 Peter 2:5, 9) that reads: I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

You may want to re-read your bible regarding temples, the church, the people, as well as Jesus who was in the temples that were already built and the like, for you are being hypocritical here.

Note: You may want to read up on the history of the Samaritans, for they too have built a temple to worship God, a temple built by their hands. Another thing is when Jesus was a child, his parents took him to the Temple of his Father, God Yahweh. Anyone can see what took place as to what happen to baby Jesus there, but it would seem some Christians tend to ignore anything before Jesus' adulthood other than just his birth, but not taking into account of what took place after that. People, Christians, build the temple/church (House of God) as a place of worship to God in addition to teach, preach, etc, to consider this as defaming God because the temple was made by the hands of man, is hypocrisy. Read the bible, please.

On 2/25/2018 at 1:57 PM, Witness said:

Please, just reason on this.  The organization’s teachings of upholding and boasting in, man’s visual desires are a stumbling block to God’s true Temple – and to you, and all other JWs. 

WHAT AGREEMENT HAS THE TEMPLE OF GOD WITH IDOLS? THE LARGEST BEING THE ORGANIZATION ITSELF?  Rev 13:1-8; 2 Thess 2:1-4

 ^“But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”  Matt 16:23

Man's visual? A church organization isn't an idol, however a church can easily hold idols and give more importance to said idols and not God the Father -  for churches who do this do not take into account of the Great Commission and even if they did, they lack, trust, I know from experience.

It baffles me that  some people do not even know what the meaning of an idol is, for an idol is an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship and or a person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered (a person can be referred to as a god also). Idols can also be graven images and or objects, some of which that bare a pagan origin. Only a few churches do not bare idols inside their churches and or houses them, this includes the members and their homes for they too do not bare any sort of idols in their homes as well. For any bowing down to and worshiping an image, an object and or a man is idolatry, I believe I made it clear in one of my older posts as well.

About upholding teachings, last I checked, someone said something was 100% inspired, those who teach what is true knows that is false. A church will do everything necessary to teach what is true and do everything in their power to protect its members from false teachings, practices and traditions that do not belong in a church, something I already told Matthew6969 about in his own post regarding commerce inside of a church.

Lastly, if you are going to use a verse, use it in a way you interpret it and or a brief explanation to what you are getting at. Quoting a verse would get you are without taking it into context, something of which you have already done with John 4:24; Acts 17:24, as for the other verses you posted previously, why post Matthew 16:18 if you are not doing what Jesus says regarding the Great Commission? As I recall you didn't seem like a fan of it or understood it.

For if it were to be put into As for John 2:19-21; Ephesians 2:20-22; Revelations 21:14; 1 Corinthians 6:19-21, I already have a response for that, you may not like it pertaining to your comment of which you used it on, for if put into context and explained, it can be understood by even a young one or an early reader of the scriptures.

 

[Witness]

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You may want to read up on the history of the Samaritans, for they too have built a temple to worship God, a temple built by their hands. Another thing is when Jesus was a child, his parents took him to the Temple of his Father, God Yahweh. Anyone can see what took place as to what happen to baby Jesus there, but it would seem some Christians tend to ignore anything before Jesus' adulthood other than just his birth, but not taking into account of what took place after that. People, Christians, build the temple/church (House of God) as a place of worship to God in addition to teach, preach, etc, to consider this as defaming God because the temple was made by the hands of man, is hypocrisy. Read the bible, please.

You seem to think I have no knowledge of the early Temples.  You also appear to believe I have no idea that nothing can hold God. And, you also seem to be excusing man for building temples today.  There is a difference between meeting to pray and study the Bible, and calling a meeting place, God’s House. 

1 Chron 17:1-15

  Now it came to pass, when David was dwelling in his house, that David said to Nathan the prophet, “See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of the covenant of the Lord is under tent curtains.”

² Then Nathan said to David, “Do all that is in your heart, for God is with you.”

³ But it happened that night that the word of God came to Nathan, saying, ⁴ “Go and tell My servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord: “You shall not build Me a house to dwell in. ⁵ For I have not dwelt in a house since the time that I brought up Israel, even to this day, but have gone from tent to tent, and from one tabernacle to another. ⁶ Wherever I have moved about with all Israel, have I ever spoken a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar–’”’ ⁷ Now therefore, thus shall you say to My servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts: “I took you from the sheepfold, from following the sheep, to be ruler over My people Israel. ⁸ And I have been with you wherever you have gone, and have cut off all your enemies from before you, and have made you a name like the name of the great men who are on the earth. ⁹ Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, ¹⁰ since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel. Also I will subdue all your enemies. Furthermore I tell you that the Lord will build you a house. ¹¹ And it shall be, when your days are fulfilled, when you must go to be with your fathers, that I will set up your seed after you, who will be of your sons; and I will establish his kingdom. ¹² He shall build Me a house, and I will establish his throne forever. ¹³ I will be his Father, and he shall be My son; and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him who was before you. ¹⁴ And I will establish him in My house and in My kingdom forever; and his throne shall be established forever.”’”

“But Solomon built Him a house. “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:

⁴⁹ ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
⁵⁰ Has My hand not made all these things?’

⁵¹ “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.  Acts 7:47-51

Matt 16:18 - And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

“Peter” – Petros – rock or a stone, an apostle, a piece of rock

“rock” – “petra” -  a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively)

“and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock (“petra”) was Christ.” 1 Cor 10:4

“Then as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, ‘Teacher, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!’  ² And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” Mark 13:1,2

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

²⁰ Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”

²¹ But He was speaking of the temple of His body.  John 2:19-21

One Temple, one church, and God’s ONLY house; built on Christ, the Rock.  God is also the Rock.  Ps 95:1  Both, are the Temple Zion.  Rev 21:22

Peter and the apostles were the first “rocks/stones” to be added to the Temple/Rock mass -  Christ and  Head.  1 Cor 3:11  They are the foundation of this Temple along with the prophets.  1 Cor 12:27-28

More followed.

“you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ⁶ Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion – Mountain/Rock  Heb 12:22
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”

⁷ Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,”

⁸ and “A stone of stumbling  And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

⁹ But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light “ 1 Pet 2:5-9

Mount Zion/Holy City is the Temple of God.  

  ^“Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names^[i] of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”  But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.”  Rev 21:14,22

And, since the holy priesthood, “living stones” are part Christ’s Body/rock mass, they too, can be said to be the Temple.

“Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? ¹⁷ If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”  1 Cor 3:16,17  

The “144,000” “living stones” of the Temple belong to God and the Lamb   Rev 14:1

“Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, ²⁰ having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, ²¹ in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, ²² in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.  Eph 2:20-22

This is the only Temple – the only “house” God recognizes as His.  This “holy priesthood” of “living stones” is also the Bride: 2 Cor 11:2; Eph 5:23,25; Rev 21:9,10,2; Zech 8:3; 1 Cor 1:27, 8,28; 6:2

When the woman at the well pointed to the temple where the Samaritans worshipped, and then to Jerusalem’s temple, Jesus was explaining that no longer would there be a physical temple of any sort – no “house” where God’s spirit would dwell; except the house HE and the Father were building with Christ as the chief cornerstone, the foundation in the apostles and prophets, and all the faithful “living stones” added over the years.  Do you really think that God would lay claim to anything else  - that mere man would build?  John 4:19-24    For those in the world who desire to build ostentatious temples and buildings supposedly sanctioned as “God’s House”/dwelling, perhaps Jesus has become  “A stone of stumbling  And a rock of offense.” They stumble, being disobedient to the word”; that being,

“the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands”.

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Man's visual? A church organization isn't an idol, however a church can easily hold idols and give more importance to said idols and not God the Father -  for churches who do this do not take into account of the Great Commission and even if they did, they lack, trust, I know from experience.

Since you appear to come here upholding the Watchtower, you may want their perspective (that comes and goes) about idols: 

WT ‘90 11/1 p. 26 "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization."

An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion.. (“All who remain loyal to Jehovah and his organization will have his continued blessing.” W14/5/15) ...whether material or imagined. Generally speaking, idolatry is the veneration, love, worship, or adoration of an idol. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence [as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature –(the Watchtower exists as both animate and inanimate, as a “spirit directed organization”) ]. Idolatry generally involves some form, ceremony, or ritual.  Insight Vol 1

 Large letters are for emphasis, not signifying yelling, although at times I feel like it.   

 

 

[Space Merchant]

20 hours ago, Witness said:

Text...

Quoting the Watchtower does really take away from what you were trying to say earlier regarding Man’s visual and idolatry, as you said. Idolatry isn’t that hard to identity and people who adorn something or someone other than God and ignore the teachings of Jesus are obviously the odd ones out when it comes to idolatry. Surely you could have done better than that. In addition to that, some of us tend to be very, very careful of whom we paint as an opponent because a small mishap can truly change something without notice.

And again, there is a difference between just posting/quoting verses of which you are trying to show people are you are getting at vs. quoting and explaining a verse so people can better understand something without being confused or mislead, there are comparison errors of verses in your comment too. Again, you need to be careful for that; a simple mistake can be a very dangerous thing.

1 Chronicles 17:1-15

1 Chronicles 17 in its entirety informs us that:

Keep in mind that

David not to build temple (1-6)

Covenant with David for a kingdom (7-15)

David’s prayer of thanksgiving (16-27)

Now on to what we can find out in what we can learn from King David not being permitted from building the temple, but that his successor, being Solomon, who was to build the temple and why.

David wanted to turn to building a temple for the Yahweh. The king spoke to Nathan and said- Here I am, living in a house of cedar, while the ark of the covenant of the Lord [YHWH] is under a tent. This bothered David greatly. Why should the king’s house be a palace, while the house of God was just a tent? At first, Nathan encouraged David to follow through on his desire to build a temple for the Yahweh (1 Chronicles 17:2).

Yet that night the word of God came to Nathan, changing their plans: Go and tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord [YHWH] says: You are not the one to build me a house to dwell in (verse 4). God then points out that, in all the long history of the tabernacle, He never once rebuked Israel’s leaders for not building a permanent temple (verses 5–6). In addition to that, Yes, God can’t dwell inside of a temple as a normal man would, however, he was present, we can look at those 2 verses right now:

The Lord's Covenant with David

(5) For I have not lived in a house since the day I brought up Israel to this day, but I have gone from tent to tent and from dwelling to dwelling (6) In all places where I have moved with all Israel, did I speak a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd my people, saying, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?”’

Note: These verses connect to Exodus 40:2, Numbers 4:24, 25, 2 Samuel 6:17 and Psalms 78:60. Dwelling also tabernacle in some translations.

Rather than David himself to build a temple, God decided to allow David’s son to oversee this work (verses 11–12). In response, David offered a prayer of praise: You, Lord [YHWH], are God! You have promised these good things to your servant. Now you have been pleased to bless the house of your servant, that it may continue forever in your sight; for you, Lord [YHWH], have blessed it, and it will be blessed forever (1 Chronicles 17:26–27).

David considered God’s word as a tremendous blessing that affirmed his son would also serve as king, for God will already establish David’s son’s Kingship. 1 Chronicles 22:8 sheds some light on God’s decision not to allow David to build the temple: You have shed much blood and have fought many wars. You are not to build a house for my Name, because you have shed much blood on the earth in my sight. David’s background of shedding blood in times of war was God’s reason for choosing David’s son instead (see 1 Chronicles 28:3). God wanted a man of peace to construct the temple, not a man of war. His house was to be a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:7).

Since David was forbidden from building the temple himself, he helped to gather materials and prepare the plans for the temple’s construction. He said to Solomon, I have taken great pains to provide for the temple of the Lord a hundred thousand talents of gold, a million talents of silver, quantities of bronze and iron too great to be weighed, and wood and stone. And you may add to them. You have many workers: stonecutters, masons and carpenters, as well as those skilled in every kind of work in gold and silver, bronze and iron—craftsmen beyond number. Now begin the work, and the Lord be with you (1 Chronicles 22:14–16). In other words, Solomon, who became King of Israel, later on built the Temple (2 Samuel 24:18-25, 1 Chronicles 21:18-30, 2 Chronicles 3:1).

Solomon faithfully fulfilled this command during his reign, leading Israel to the height of world power. David’s desire to build a house for the Lord was noble, but God had other plans. David’s reaction to God’s intervening with his plan is an example for us. When things do not go as we planned, when God closes a door, we should continue to praise God and then move on in a new direction. Rather than complain about what we can’t do, we should do what we can, giving God the glory. Despite having the desire to build the Temple, he was not permitted to do so, but he was able to do other things such as gather the materials that are very expensive by the way, which in our day is well over the what we earn for a living, for the cost of such also took from David’s personal fortune too (1 Chronicles 22:2-16).

What did God do at the Temple and hearing the prayer of Solomon? Fire came down from the sky and burned up the offering that Solomon had prepared and God approved of the temple. The Israelites who were present also rejoiced after witnessing this, mind you, this is after when Solomon said that the temple cannot contain God and or it isn’t big enough for him. For we know clearly that God cannot literally enter the temple, dwell in it even, but he was obviously present hence how he took up the offering from the alter by means of great fire and approved of the temple built by King Solomon of Israel (read 2 Chronicles chapter 6 and 7).

Acts 7:47-51

Stephen’s speech before the Sanhedrin (1-53)                Era of the patriarchs (2-16)

Moses’ leadership; Israel’s idolatry (17-43)                      God does not live in man-made temples (44-50)

Stoning of Stephen (54-60)

Pertaining to the situation with God regarding David and Solomon, the temple was actually built. Even though there is a temple built for God whereas people offer sacrifice, worship and service to God, obviously a place such as a temple, a house and or a tent cannot contain God, especially with what was said about him. But God sees and watches those who religiously worship him, hence what he said regarding going to one dwelling place to another. For he cannot enter the temple itself, however, his glory and presence can be witnessed by his people, other times he is present, overlooking, for this is not the first time

Anyways, 47-51 speaks of the house, being the temple, which was built by Solomon, who had the resources, material, thanks to dad also, and people that contributed to building a temple of which God has approved. We know that God cannot literally dwell inside of a temple, just like what King Solomon had said, but God obviously took up the offering and his glory filled up the temple, mind you, fire came down from the sky on to the alter to take up the offering, a result of that was the people present near the temple were witnesses of God’s glory (his power that was shown) and they, the people present near the temple, rejoiced. We also know from the following verses that the Heaven is God’s throne, for verse 49 is connected to Psalms 11:4, which explains a bit more in detail. As for the footstool, we can turn to Matthew 5:34, 35 of what that footstool actually is. Verse 50, speaks for itself, we see Solomon as an example, as well as David. As for verse 51, it speaks of those who resist and or rebel the Holy Spirit, which you will find in more detail in Isaiah 63:10, for those who became rebellious became enemies and such enemies are fought against, for the verse speaks of Yahweh’s vengeance on the nations (Isaiah 63:1-6) and his loyal love in the times that has past, The Lord's Mercy Remembered (Isaiah 63:7-14), with the remainder of the chapter being about prayer for mercy for the people sought repentance.

Note: Paul and Stephen saying that God doesn’t dwell in a temple house; that is putting God into a box, not appropriate for God Almighty. They probably formulated a general opinion of their time among Jews and non-Jews. Stephen could use this argument successfully before his Jewish listeners and Paul to his Greek listeners. Careful consideration of the relevant Bible texts makes a supposed Bible Contradiction absolutely unacceptable. (KJV has a mistranslation which has been restored in nearly all modern versions.)

Matthew 16:18 is only understandable if you know what the Great Commission is of the church, the people, etc, which you didn’t acknowledge here or before, or even understand of what it is about, but it is common to those who do not really see the take to account what this verse, and its connected/compared verses even mean.

This is already known of what Peter (Greek masculine gender of the word) means, a piece of rock and obviously not literally for every name under the sun has a meaning to something or someone. Yeshua/Jesus/Joshua = Yah/Jah Saves or Yah/Jah is Salvation, Elijah meaning My God is Yahweh/Jehovah (My God is YHWH), Yahweh/Jehovah = To exist, to become, cause to exist (He causes to become), etc, in addition, Peter’s first name, Symeon (Simon), means to hear or to listen, but what is unique about him is that he is named 5 different ways.

As for Peter, you would have to know what this verse means. [A] What is the church, how is it that death will not prevail against it, and [C] what is the role of the Apostles regarding the church.

Peter literally did not see himself as the rock on which Jesus would build his church, for we see what he wrote at 1 Peter 2:4-8 (also verse 9, which I will speak of later) that Jesus was the long-foretold foundation cornerstone, chosen by God himself. Apostle Paul referred to Jesus as the foundation and the spiritual rock. (1 Corinthians 3:11; 10:4), which we will find out later on since you did quote the verse after all. As for the believers, we are the precious living stones.

Death itself, be it Hades, Hell, Sheol, the Grave, whatever floats your boat and drives your car, it will not prevail against the church, of which its very foundation is Jesus who is the spiritual rock of which that church sits upon.

For Jesus had said that his church will be built, that his church will not die out, promising that Hades itself will not prevail against it, he assured his disciples that he would guide his church, preserve his church until he is to return, promising them that he will be with them always until the conclusion of the tribulation and end times. The Christ has ascended into heaven after being resurrected by God, the disciples of Jesus began preaching the gospel, to all people, everywhere, for the Lord is working with them and confirming the Word as well as accompanying the word through signs, for the church most defiantly had an obvious and yet powerful beginning. Because of their actions, people of all kinds, of all nations began to profess Christianity, thus claiming to be members of the church Jesus founded for He is the foundation, for He is the Spiritual Rock, as for taking in knowledge of the Christ and of his Father makes those of the faith be united as one, having the Father dwell in them for they are true Christians. The Apostles were given the command from the chosen Christ to take the lead and to establish it the church. For the church, was built on the foundation due to the Apostles with the aid of the helper and the comforter that is the Holy Spirit which they were filled with, the church kept and handles the teachings, and such teachings is taught to those who seek it, sanctified, lead by Jesus Christ through and or by means of the Apostles. These men who followed the Christ were men having great honor for carrying out the teachings, and in turn, successors carry out the teachings of the Apostles, for they were to and have gone out to make disciples of the people, and those who become teachers follow that same calling of the Great Commission.

Mark 13:1, 2 informs us about the temples that were present in Jesus’ day. Verse 2 gives us detail of Jesus’ prophecy regarding what he had said in this verse, for he was referring to the Romans demolishing Jerusalem and, apart from a few sections of the wall, they completely leveled it; for what he had said was a prophecy fulfilled, I’m sure you and everyone here are familiar with what the Romans role was regarding Jerusalem. As for verse 1, look at also Matthew 24:1 and Luke 21:5. For we can see what Jesus was getting at; for what we know, historical and biblically, that Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple -The Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE).

I’ll save John 2:19 for last because this one deserves better explanation - who else to do it better than a brother who researched and interpreted this very well... Plus my fingers are tired.

For Revelations 21:22 (Pure, Beneficial Rule), What can be said about this verse is 100% true, however, you can’t ignore, but must take into account of the actions of the Apostles who went out to continue, following in Jesus’ example and footsteps in terms of teachings and spreading of the gospel, again, Great Commission, for the church is the Christ and the Christ is the Head of the Church as well as its foundation, but Church also means the people who dwell in the body of Christ also (One in Christ), in turn, these persons are in the presence of God, and God dwells in these people who sought the truth., hence the saying, True Christian(s).

For it is evident that they did not just called it quits after Jesus ascended, for Jesus informed them of a promise from the Father that is to come to them, something that is to help them out, which is the Holy Spirit (the comforter as I said already). We can look into Luke 24 (On the Road to Emmaus) and Acts 1 (The Promise of the Holy Spirit) regarding this, which includes a newcomer to the group, Matthias (Judas Iscariot’s replacement), and of the promise from the Father of which Jesus informed them about, which can be read in Acts 2 (The Coming of the Holy Spirit).

All in all, all the work and progress of Apostles, and the main thing about Revelations 21, specifically verses 22-27, is about New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb. Yahweh’s glory shines upon the temple for there is no need from any light coming from the sun or moon, and the very lamp of the New Holy City is the Lamb, The Messianic King, Lord Jesus Christ and those in the body of Christ, the church, as well as Kings, will walk by means of the light that is He – bringing glory into the New Holy City. The verses also goes on to speak of New Jerusalem’s magnificence, and that anyone who is not sacred and or is a lair will not be able to enter it, for only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life will (see Daniel 12:1, Philippians 4:3, and Revelations. 13:8). A holy and sacred city she is, yet there was no visible temple of worship for Yahweh, God the Almighty is its temple, also the Lamb is also - Its ruler ship over the nations will be beneficial to them, the people, the nations, who will walk by means of its light.

In the end, this is what the teachings will lead one to, for Jesus being the beginning of the New Creation, heavily expressed in Revelations – should one understand of what it implies, for New Jerusalem, the very thing that will be a place of dwelling for those who adhere to what is true, as well as the teachings that are true, in turn, it also makes God’s main objective accomplished by means of his chosen Messianic King, which is Son, Jesus Christ as well as the inhabitants, the church, the people, being part of this New Creation regarding the New Heavens and Earth -  for these people are the righteous and the meek.

Do not confuse Psalms 95:1 (or the Old Testament) with Revelations 21:22 (New Testament), doing so you take the verses out of context and can easily confuse someone or mislead someone if you do not understand these verses, well in this case, just Psalms 95:1. For anyone who is familiar with the Old Testament to its entirety will tell you the same thing, and or state it as a Hebraic Violation as some would say when someone’s trying to connect verses together do not make sense, putting puzzle pieces into a wrong puzzle board, so to speak.

What is to be kept in mind is that Psalms 95:1 is speaks of Yahweh, the God of Israel as being the Rock of Salvation and or the Rock of one’s Salvation. Such a term is exclusively used in the Hebrew Scriptures, the Old Testament, which has occurred several times (Deuteronomy 32:15, 2 Samuel 22:47, Psalms 89:26 and 95:1, etc). Each time such a term is expressed it evokes vivid imagery and a sense of great security, for God is a trustworthy rock-solid savior. In addition to that regarding the Old Testament, the Messiah was not yet realized, so the saying God [YHWH] is the Rock of Salvation was not an overt reference to the salvation through Christ’s blood, however, Isaiah 8:14 alludes to Jesus as “a rock” over which both the houses of Israel will stumbled over, take a look at Matthew 21:42-44 also, but any man or woman can see the big difference as to that and what God the Father is called.

Now, continuing with God the Father, the people in those times considered Yahweh as this Rock, for as crags, high cliffs and rocky mountains of the land, places of which the Israelites often find themselves hiding in its caves and crevices, away from their enemies, an example would be 1 Samuel 13:6 (Saul Fights the Philistines; as well as David’s refuge while running from Saul, 1 Samuel 24:3, David Spares Saul's Life), for in those days, many, many battles were fought in Israel, with majority of the area being rocky places, in addition to that, rocky areas were deemed ideal locations for strong and highly protective fortresses, so therefore, the phrase Rock of my Salvation resonates greatly with God’s people, for God is their protection, God is their fortress. In David’s case when running from Saul, he does not place his hope on the caves, the mountains, a protective city, etc, he placed his hope on God (David’s Rock of Salvation), the creator of the Heaven and the Earth being that Rock (Psalms 121:1-3 My Help Comes from the Lord) as well as in Psalms 62:6-7 - My Soul Waits for God Alone. David knew without a doubt that it is Yahweh, his God and his Father, that is capable of concealing him from great danger by any means necessary; for if one understands the story of David, they can read and see for themselves of how God protected David.

Another example is the faithful Hannah, the mother of Prophet Samuel, for she prayed in triumph and she said the following in 1 Samuel 2:1-2:

Hannah's Prayer

(1) And Hannah prayed and said, “My heart exults in the Lord [YHWH]; my horn is exalted in the Lord [YHWH]. My mouth derides my enemies, because I rejoice in your salvation. (2) “There is none holy like the Lord [YHWH]: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.

Hannah rejoices over God’s deliverance from her barrenness as well as His granting that her husband’s name continue on into many generations.

Therefore in the Old Hebrew Testament the emphasis on Salvation speaks of liberation within the physical realm, while the New Greek Testament on Salvation was predominantly spiritual, there isn’t a need to explain it because most here, including you understand what Salvation is regarding the New Greek Testament.

That being said, let this be an example for NOT mixing scripture to make it seem as though it is something else, for it can change the meaning of something, easily causing someone to stumble, to be mislead. Not cool.

1 Corinthians 3:11 speaks for itself unless one doesn’t understand what it means, for no one can alter, change or remove the foundation of the church, that is Jesus Christ. No one can prevent it from stopping until the Christ makes his return to earth when the Father gives him the OK to do so, and death itself cannot stop the foundation or the church, or its people who are in Christ, for the people live as Christians and they die as Christians, they do not break away from what is true because they know that the future promise that the Bible says is far greater than anything on under the heavens, on the earth. There are false prophets and teachers, yes, but they are not capable of changing what Jesus has set in motion regarding true Christian worship, or as some say, a raw form of Christianity. For such men chooses to go their own way, but not follow the way of God, for False Prophets and Teachers do not care about God, nor do they care about the Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27-28 as stated before, the church is not just regarding the teachings and the practices. It is also the people who are in the body of Christ -  for such persons adhere to the teachings that originated from the Father, and with these teachings they take to the call and mission of what Jesus had told his Apostles, and being part of the church, a Christian is obligates to take this call of the Great Commission as well, no ifs, buts, or delaying it, for this is what Jesus has said, and this is what you as a Christian must do, in the end, it will benefit you, for God sees what you are doing, and most likely Jesus and the heavenly spirit beings who are in the spiritual realm that is Heaven. The adversary of God also watches for he roams the earth an seeks to devour people by misleading them.

1 Peter 2:5 is regarding A Living Stone and a Holy People. For we should not have a longing for the world or the things of this world because, we, the living stones, are built into a spiritual house, therefore making us in union, being one with Him (The Christ) who is the whole building, joined together harmoniously for we are, as stated before, united as one (just like the disciples are one with Christ and that Christ is one with the Father), and as a holy people, we expand and grow into a Holy Temple for Yahweh, God the Father. That is the only reason why 1 Peter 2:5 points directly to Ephesians 2:21 (verse 22 explaining, briefly, God dwelling in True Christians) regarding the Spiritual House (One in Christ):

[1] One in Christ

(21) in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord [YHWH] (22) In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Note: What you also missed is the living stones are not just the 144,000 that will be chosen for priesthood, the living stones that is built into the Spiritual House is ALL BELIEVERS of the truth also. In addition, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17 pretty much connects here also so the explanation speaks for itself.

As for Spiritual sacrifices, it points to Hebrews 13:15, which says:

[2] Sacrifices Pleasing to God

Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name

Acceptable to God through Jesus Christ pointing to Romans 12:1 (also verse 2, as well as 5, which I will explain later), which reads:

[3] A Living Sacrifice

(1)  I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. (2) Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

In understanding these things and taking into account what it means, any person who reads the bible will see exactly of what alludes to:

The foundation of God’s building is His Son, Jesus Christ, the living Stone. The living stones are believers who come to Jesus and place their lives upon this foundation. The living Stone is precious to those who believe (1 Peter 2:7), but some men reject the living Stone in order to build their lives their own way, not God’s way (Luke 6:46-49 (compared to Psalms 118:22). Unbelievers cast this living Stone aside, not caring that Jesus is the only true foundation upon which they can build securely. (1 cor. 3:11 mentioned this already).

I can go into greater detail all day because there is more to it for the better the understanding and explain something than just quoting it, the better that one who reads it for themselves who want bible verses explained and or something from said verse explained in detail, but that is for another time. These believers, True Christians who adhere to the teachings that is true, take to the call of the Great Commission, are indeed the living stones of the church (the spiritual house) that Jesus, who is the head of the church promised to build (Matthew 16:18). As living stones, we have new life in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). As being the parts of the building of God, we have security in Christ (John 6:37). As the Master Builder, God places His living stones just where He wants us to be (1 Corinthians 12:18). As living stones, we are connected to one (for we all in union with each other) another in the body of Christ (Romans 12:5). Our Lord, the foundation Stone, is alive forevermore (Firstborn out of the death) and will never crumble. He will support us eternally.

Now about that explanation, Peter goes on to describe the function of the living stones: to declare the praises of Him who called us out of the darkness of sin into the light of life and glory (1 Peter 2:9). This is the job of a living stone: a speaker of praise, a declarer of truth and love and light. The spiritual house God is building is designed for His glory, and we, the living stones, glorify the Lord in all we do (1 Corinthians 10:31).

You may want to read up on what the New Holy City is, for Hebrews 12:22 is regarding a Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken. This is why some referred to the New Jerusalem as a New Holy City (Heavenly Jerusalem). That verse alone points directly to 2 verses in Revelations. For Mount Zion (don’t confuse it with the Old Testament) in that verse points to 14:1, which is in context, and the Holy City itself directly pointing to 21:2.

The Messianic King will have 144,000 persons, those chosen from among the people to be co-rulers, being in a position of priesthood to work alongside of God’s Chosen King, for these persons will bear the name of Jesus as well as God’s name, Yahweh, written on their forehead (Revelations 14:1), having the authority to judge for these persons are the ones who are seated on thrones, ruling as kings with the Christ  (Revelations 20:4) – and if you understand the New Creation and how Jesus is the first fruits, you would know about the First Resurrection. For these chosen ones are the very people who slaved for God, sacrificing time and every to do what Jesus had done, those who preached and teach and were persecuted for it, beaten up for it, even tortured murdered brutally for by those who relentlessly attack them and or against them, be it haters of the truth or those who teach what is false and do everything and anything in their power, “unchristian acts”, to defame such people who take the call of the Great Commission even going as far as to conspiring and contributing to infighting/attacking within the Christian faith (Which is a thing nowadays with propaganda and conspiracy). In the end, in trial and error, persecution and brutality; violence and abuses of all kinds, it will not stop such people who are chosen - for those who are chosen, who made the truth known to all persons who can be one with the church, one with in the body of Christ, will be among the 144,000. What happens to those chosen is no different as to what happened to Jesus, who was hated, lied about, insulted, disgraced, defamed, those who call to murder him, conspired to kill him, and those who turn their backs on him, eventually being contributors and accomplices to his crucifixion and death, without batting an eye for their actions. For such burden is places on those who also know of the truth, for they too are victim of such vile actions, reasons why most Christians tend to keep to themselves and not join others in on the infighting, hence my stance as a Christian, for we are defenders of what is true, no contributors to infighting and conspiracy, and like me there are many, many others.

You may want to re-check those verses, to put it briefly, there is no mention of the bride is compared to a radiance precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal, coming down in God’s glory, her light. But yes, as said before, the people who are of the truth make up the living stones, the parts to the foundation that is the Spiritual House. Anyways in the verses you listed:

This just makes us aware of Headship and head covering (1 Cor. 11:2). Interestingly enough, the First Epistle of Corinthians pretty much informs us that there are and has been multiple churches of God (several temples and the like with people with the same worship and faith), however it also lets us know that all these church were indeed a places of worship, and all of them are in union with each other, same faith, same teachings, and because of that, these churches with the believers, who are living stones as the scriptures says, are indeed one in Christ.

Husbands and Wives, nuff said here, however verse 23 shows us that The Christ is the head of the Church, as the Church (also the people) is in subjected to the Christ, so to wives to their husbands in everything (Eph. 5:23, 25). The Head of the Christ is also God, but people who believe Jesus is God will ignore this and try to make it into something it is not.

The bride coming from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband (Rev 21:2)

Knowing that the bride is the Lamb’s Wife, one being carried off, John, to see the holy city coming out of heaven, the city explained in detail (Rev. 21:9, 10, I believe you met 12)

You may want to read your bible for this one; it was not talking about New Jerusalem, Big difference compared to Jerusalem (Zec. 8:3). There is a reason, remember this carefully: Jesus, the Christ/Messiah, had been rejected by earthly Jerusalem. It is unwise to add that to consider earthly Jerusalem as New Jerusalem, vice versa when using the Old Testament regarding this verse.

For 1 Cor. 6:2 - The verse speaks of the holy ones, the chosen ones who will be co-ruling alongside the Christ, points to Rev 2:26, 27 and 20:4, no mention of the bride in those verses.

For 1:27, this verse doesn't points to the bride being mentioned as a living stone, to a very, very famous bible verse, Matthew 11:25. Verse 8 (still in 1 Cor.) informs us that we are to remain firm until the Lord comes back, we are not to judge anything until he comes back, for we are to be watchful of Satan, in addition, what our intention that resides in our hearts, as well as being received up in praise to God (compared 1 Cor. 4:5, 5:5, Rev. 1:10). 1 Cor. 1 still, Verse 28 speaks for itself if you understand 1 Cor. 2:6.

John 4:19-24 Yep. Jesus talking to a Samaritan Woman, but did you know that the Samaritans have temples of which they built, by their hands and the sweat of their brow, a temple to worship God, in the mountains, specifically, Mount Gerizim? That is why I mentioned the Samaritans previously.

Keep in mind that in those verses that:

The Samaritan woman told Jesus Christ: “Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” To show her that true worship was not to be dependent on a physical location, Jesus responded by saying: “The hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.” (John 4:20, 21). Jesus explains that the place of worship is not important, he goes on to say, verses 23, 24, telling her: “The hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” But when we really understand the chapter, What the Father looks for in true worshippers is not where they worship but how they worship, for true worshippers can also be found in temples of which they built, remember that. The woman was impressed with what Jesus had to say, the reason why she says the following (verse 25):“I know that Messiah is coming, who is called Christ,” she says “Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.” And of course, in the next verse, Jesus’ response “I who speak to you am he.” The reason of the chapter, again, speaks for itself and it is a good example for Christians to follow, well, if you understand it.

Anyways, regarding the history of the Samaritans, they did have temples, specifically this one particularly of which I will speak of, a place of which they worshipped God, of which they had built, with their hands -  to this day I think people still have Passovers and communions in the area, modern day Nablus.

Mount Gerizim, where the famous well of Jacob is located near here, the very place of where Jesus spoke with the Samaritan woman. This mountain is mentioned several times in the Hebrew Scriptures. (De 11:29; 27:12; Jos 8:33; Jg 9:7) A Samaritan Temple, rivaling the one in Jerusalem, was constructed on the mountain. It destroyed by the Jews in 128 B.C.E, however this temple was built around the 4^th-5^th century B.C.E. The Samaritans accepted only the first five books of the Bible, and probably the book of Joshua (revised), which is known as the Samaritan Pentateuch. It was written in their own characters, derived from ancient Hebrew. The text differs from the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible. Some versions have are minor detailed changes, in some cases, major. Because of their acceptance of the Pentateuch, this reveals that the Samaritans basis for believing that a prophet greater than Moses would come, for instance, the basis of belief that can be seen here regarding a prophet from among the people, Deutoronmy18:18, 19. The 1^st century Samaritans were looking for the coming of Christ, the Messiah, for some of them, they recognize him, others have rejected him, some probably clueless, but believed.(Luke 9:52-56, 17:16-19, John 4:9-43). Because of the disciples, the living stones also, for they too are believers, their actions, the preaching of the gospel, making disciples, the gathering of people on to the church, etc was the result of the Samaritans later embracing later the teachings, there for embracing Christianity. (Acts 8:1-17,25,  9:31; 15:3).

Once again, being ignorant of such information only backfires, but learning of these things, should the person accept, will better understand scripture. God is too great to dwell in a temple compared to a normal man or woman who dwells openly inside of a temple, in every corner of the building, praying, teaching, worshipping, etc. However God is present in some way or another, for we see examples of this, and yes, temples, tabernacles, tents, etc were places of which God is present in, despite not being able to literally dwell in them, as we see this in the Old Testament.

We, as Christians, are the living stones of the spiritual house that is in all subjection to the Christ, the house that God the Father sees and considers His temple. We are indeed the church for the very word means “a calling forth” and or “the gathering of people” for the very word describes the people, not the building itself – another reason why it is said the church is universal by early Church Fathers.

So, I take into account of what the bible says and not the words of people who do not really understand something. Knowledge is power for a reason, and in learning these things you will not be mislead so easily. But it seems that many people are astray because of errors in the bible such as the KJV and or of prophets who use errors to push a claim and or teaching.

 As for John 2:19, I will just post here what a Christian Brother from community has said due to his research and study on this verse:

Quote

John 2:19

 

Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.   The Trinitarian Claim Trinitarians interpret the text to mean Jesus raised himself from the dead and somehow suppose this means he must be God who raised himself from the dead.   The Claim vs. The Facts The Scriptural facts show us that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus was the Father's Word and the Father spoke decisively when He raised Jesus from the dead. Since Jesus was the Father's Word, what should we expect the Father to say when the Jews planned to kill His son but the words, "Destroy this Temple and I will raise it up"?   The Problems with the Claim 1. John 10:17-18 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my soul so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.” In this passage, it says Jesus was given the authority to take it up again by a command of the Father. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to claim John 2:19 means Jesus is God because he raised his own body if he needed to be given the authority to do so by God. It is also worth noting that the word commonly translated as "take" in verse 17 is the same Greek word which is inconsistently translated as "receive" in verse 18b.   2. Violating other Scripture The following passages do not square with the Trinitarian interpretation of John 2:19. "I saw the Lord always in my presence for He is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken. Therefore my heart was glad and my tongue exulted; moreover my flesh also will live in hope because You will not abandon my soul to Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption." Acts 3:25-27  In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to the One who is able to save him from death and he was heard for his godly fear. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. Hebrews 5:7   2. The Wild Imaginations of Trinitarian Minds: The dead raising the dead According to the Trinitarian mindset, one is expected to somehow suppose Christ was not actually dead and lifeless in a tomb but was quite alive and empowered to raise his own dead body to life. This problem is completely disregarded by Trinitarians. If the person Jesus was not actually dead, but alive and able to raise his body from the dead, then no person had died for their sins. But like Cerinthus, they suppose that at the point of death, the divine Christ departed from that flesh named Jesus hanging on the cross. In this way, the divine Christ was not dead but alive and they laid a dead human named Jesus in a tomb. Put another way, dying usually results in being dead but not in the case of the Trinitarian divine Son. His dying did not result in being dead. God the Son died only in process but not in result and he remained quite alive while discarding his human flesh and leaving his dead carcass behind. Jesus the divine being escaped to parts elsewhere and remained quite alive while Jesus the human being was that dead flesh hanging dead on the cross. In the Trinitarian mind, it is necessary to espouse this heretical Cerinthian concept where Jesus the divine being remained alive while Jesus the human being was hanging dead on the cross.   3. A Self Refuting Claim Trinitarians like to claim John 2:19 means Jesus raised himself. For some strange reason, they don't see the problem with their claim. They also claim that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead, the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, and Jesus raised himself from the dead. And so they believe that all three persons of Trinity doctrine raised Jesus from the dead. And so they conclude the Triune God raised Jesus from the dead. Here is where their utter confusion manifests itself. Unfortunately, they don't seem to understand that they aren't making any sense. In the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father is not the Triune being, the Son is not the Triune being, and the Holy Spirit is not the Triune being, and conversely, the Triune being is not the Father, the Triune being is not the Son, and the Triune being is not the Holy Spirit. So to say Jesus raised himself is therefore to say the Triune being did not raise Jesus because Jesus is not the Triune being in Trinity doctrine. Or to say the Triune being raised Jesus is to say that Jesus did not raise himself since the Triune being is not the Jesus. In the mental gymnastics of their minds, the Father raised Jesus from the dead + Jesus raised Jesus from the dead + the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, and that amounts to the Triune God raising Jesus from the dead. What they don't seem to comprehend is that if they make such a claim, they can't say the Father raised Jesus from the dead nor can they say Jesus raised Jesus from the dead nor can they say the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead because any one of these three is not the Triune God in their own doctrine. Put more simply, to claim the Triune God raised Jesus contradicts the claim that Jesus raised himself. In Trinitarian doctrine, you simply cannot say that the Triune God raised Jesus from the dead and also insist Jesus raised himself from the dead, and hope to make any kind of sense whatsoever because Jesus is not the Triune God, and the Triune God is not Jesus. Either the Triune God raised Jesus from the dead or Jesus raised himself from the dead. In Trinitarian doctrine, you can't claim both without contradicting yourself. But because they do claim both, they do contradict themselves. The same situation holds true for claiming the Father raised Jesus and Jesus raised himself. In Trinity doctrine, the Father is not Jesus and Jesus is not the Father. To say Jesus raised himself is also to say the Father did not raise Jesus because Jesus is not the Father. Or to say the Father raised Jesus is also to say that Jesus did not raise himself. To insist Jesus raised himself from the dead is also to say it was not the Triune God who raised Jesus since Jesus is notthe Triune being and the Triune being is not Jesus. Morover, what sense does it make to claim Jesus raised himself and then insist that two other persons raised "himself"? But it's even worse than this since they are ultimately claiming four different identities raised "himself": (1) the Father, (2) the Son, (3) the Holy Spirit, (4) the Triune God. For some reason, Trinitarians are unable to see or acknowledge their own muddled contradictory confusion.   4. Jesus was able to do nothing from himself In the Gospel of John, Jesus insisted that he was not able to do anything from himself. As he himself testified, it was the Father abiding in him who did the works (John 14:10; cf. Matt 12:28; Acts 2:22). Now if this was true of Jesus while he was alive and well, how much more was he unable to do anything of himself when he was laying dead in a tomb! I am not able of my own self to do anything. John 5:30.   5. The Testimony of Scripture The New Testament consistently declares that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead by the power of His Holy Spirit. Yet, Trinitarians want to have it that John 2:19 is an exception which states someone else actually did it. But a review of the Scriptural data shows rational minded people that something is terribly amiss with the Trinitarian claim. God raised him up again, having loosed the pangs of death, since it was not possible for him to be held by it. Acts 2:24  This Jesus God raised up again. Acts 2:32.  You put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses. Acts 3:15.  Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead. Acts 4:10.  The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging him on a cross. Acts 5:30.  God raised him up on the third day. Acts 10:40.  God raised Him from the dead... God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, "You are My son; Today I have begotten You." He raised him up from the dead, no longer to return to corruption... He whom God raised did not undergo corruption. Acts 13:30-37.  His Son, who came to be out the seed of David according to the flesh, fixed son of God in power by the resurrection out of the dead, according to the Spirit of Holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 1:3-4  Those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. Romans 4:24.  Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4  But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit which dwells in you. Romans 8:11. God raised him from the dead. Romans 10:9.  Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. 1 Corinthians 6:14.  Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 1 Corinthians 15:15.  We also believe, therefore we also speak knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus. 2 Corinthians 4:13-14.  The God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.... He raised him from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenlies. Ephesians 1:17-20.  You turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead. 1 Thessalonians 1:10  ...through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 1:21  God the Father, who raised him from the dead. Galatians 1:1.   Analysis of the Facts 1. My Father's House The Trinitarian interpretation completely fails to honestly regard the context of the passage: "Take these things away and stop making my Father’s house a marketplace." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house will consume me." John 2:16-17 (see Psalm 69:9). The Temple is the Father's house, the Father of Jesus. Likewise, we are to understand that the body of Christ is the temple of God, that is, the Father's house. The Father's Word had tabernacled in human flesh (1:14) and the Father abiding in Jesus did the works (14:10). Let the reader also observe that Jesus did not describe the Temple as his house; Jesus did not describe the Temple as the Triune God's house; the Temple was his God's house, the Father's house. The Old Testament God of Israel was the Father of Jesus and the Temple built by Solomon was the Father's House. This simple fact alone tells us that the God of the Shema was the Father of Jesus. Under the Law, the Father's house was a stone temple. But something new was taking place. The Spirit of the Father had come to dwell in Jesus and this man himself was now God the Father's tabernacle, the Temple of God. And indeed, we also read in the Scriptures that the body of Christ, the church, is the Temple of God where His Spirit dwells.   2. Mark 14:58/ Mark 26:61 - Another Temple made without Human Hands Some stood up and began to give false testimony against him, saying, "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this Temple made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands.'" The Jews falsely testified that Jesus intended to destroy the Temple in Jerusalem. Notice what Jesus had said, "I will build another made without hands." He will build another Temple which was not made with human hands. Let us remember that the church is the body of Christ and how Jesus had said, "Upon this rock, I will build my church."   3. The Body of Christ Later in the Gospel of John, Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life." In Christianity, resurrection life is found in the body of Christ because he was bodily raised to resurrection life. The Spirit is life and as Paul says, Jesus was bodily raised to be "life-giving Spirit." Christ is the Head of the body, that is, the church. Jesus himself said, "On this rock, I will build by church." No longer is the stone Temple the meeting place between God and his people. The meeting place is now Christ. The temple is now Christ and the members of his body, that is, Christians, and it is within the body of Christ that God's Spirit dwells. Christ is the cornerstone and the members of his body are his followers, the living stones fitted together into one Temple of God. The Temple of God is the body of Christ and the passage in question is about the Temple of God and the body of Christ.   4. Destroy this Temple To destroy this Temple is to destroy the Temple of God. The chief priests and the scribes heard this, and began seeking how to destroy Him; for they were afraid of Him, for the whole crowd was astonished at His teaching. Mark 11:18. He was teaching daily in the temple; but the chief priests and the scribes and the leading men among the people were trying to destroy him. Luke 19:47 Notice what happens to those who destroy the Temple of God. If any man destroys the Temple of God, God will destroy him. 1 Corinthians 3:17.   5. What Sign do you Offer Us? Jesus was responding to a question from the Jews. After clearing the Temple, the Jews had asked Jesus for a sign to show them to justify why he did these things. Hence, we must understand that Jesus' response tells them what that sign will be. The Jews wanted to know by what authority he was doing these things. When He entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to Him while He was teaching, and said, "By what authority are You doing these things, and who gave You this authority?" Matthew 21:23 Who gave Jesus this authority to clear the Temple? The Father. Note how the Jews ask the same question in the the Synoptic parallel accounts: When [Jesus] entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him while he was teaching, and said, “By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?” Matthew 21:23 And as He was walking in the temple, the chief priests and the scribes and the elders came to him, and began saying to him, “By what authority are you doing these things, or who gave you this authority to do these things?” Matthew 11:27-28 On one of the days while he was teaching the people in the temple and preaching the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes with the elders confronted him, and they spoke, saying to him, “Tell us by what authority You are doing these things, or who is the one who gave you this authority?” Luke 20:1-2 This occurs right after Jesus cleared the temple. Jesus responds by asking them a question which boxes them in. The obvious answer is that the Father gave this authority to clear the Temple to Jesus. And that is precisely what Jesus tells us in the Gospel of John. Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, unless it is something he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the son also does.... just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the son also to have life in himself....and he gave him authority to judge.... I can do nothing from myself.... the very works that I do - testify about me, that the Father has sent me....I have come in the name of my Father. John 5:18-43 The above is the language of authority. The Father gave Jesus authority to act in His name. In the same way, his death and resurrection came from the authority of the Father. For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down my life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from me, but I lay it down from myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father. John 10:17-18. See 12:49-50. At this point, note how Jesus is pointing in the direction of the Father and remember that everywhere else in Scripture we find that it was the Father who raised Jesus from the dead.   6. The Word became flesh: the Father's Word Jesus was the Prophet who was coming into the world (6:14). God put His words in Jesus' mouth. "I will raise up a prophet... I will put My words in his mouth" (Deuteronomy 18:15-18).  For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for it is not by measure that he gives the Spirit. (3:34).  My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me. If any man's will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. (7:16-18).  Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear my word.... He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God. (John 8:47).  He who sent me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world (John 8:26).  Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing from myself but as my Father teaches me I speak. (8:28).  For I do not speak out of myself. The Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak. (12:49).  Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from myself but the Father who abides in me does the works. (14:10).  He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me. (John 14:24).  I will put MY Words in his mouth. Deuteronomy 18:18; see Acts 2:22-26.  And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. (John 12:44).    Jesus was the Word of God. As God's Word he was the Father's voice to Israel.   7. The Word Jesus had spoken: Two Witnesses But He was speaking of the temple of His body. So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken. John 2:21-22. The words Jesus had spoken were the words of God the Father. When Jesus spoke, there were two witnesses: (1) Jesus, and (2) the Father. Jesus did not speak from himself. The Father abiding in him did the works (14:10). If I alone testify about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who testifies of me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about me is true. 5:31-32. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of TWO witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is THE FATHER who sent me.... I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world... I do nothing from myself, but I speak these things as the Father taught me. John 8:17-28.   8. Summary The point of the passage is to illustrate how the Father's Word is tabernacled in His temple, that is, the body of Jesus by the Holy Spirit that was in Jesus and as the Father's Word we are to understand that the son speaks on his Father's authority. The Father raised Jesus from the dead and because Jesus came in his Father's name he speaks the words of his Father, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." Jesus was the promised prophet of God who had declared that He would put His words in his mouth just as Jesus confirms many times in the Gospel of John. Just as the prophets of old spoke in the name of God and used terms like "I" and "Me" as if the Father himself is speaking, Jesus the very Word of God is speaking as the Word of the Father. Notice where Jesus is at the moment. He is in the Temple, a body of flesh which is the Word of God which had become flesh. The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. So where is the Spirit of God? In his body. The Word had previously abided in the Spirit of God and now the Spirit of God was abiding in the Word. The Gospels teach over and over that that authority of God is given by his Spirit and the same is true here. He is not speaking on his own but in the Spirit of God his Father who gave him authority in the Spirit and who will raise him from the dead in that same Spirit. By what authority? By the authority that will raise him up, the Father in the Spirit of Holiness. This was a message from God the Father to these Jews. The Jewish Temple rulers were the ones who conspired to kill Jesus and yelled, "Crucify him, crucify him." They would destroy God the Father's temple, the place where his Spirit dwelt, the body of the man Jesus. And the Word having become flesh, God the Father speaks to these Jews by means of his Word, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." We must carefully regard the question the Jews had asked Jesus. They wanted a sign that would tell them his reasons for clearing the Temple. And we find in the Gospel of John that Jesus tells us by what authority that he says the things he says and does the things he does. He came in the name of his Father and the Father abiding in him did the works (14:10). His words were not his own but the Father's who sent him (14:24).   Conclusion The Scriptural facts show us that his body was the Temple of God; the Word tabernacled in human flesh and that flesh was the Father's Temple. He, this body of flesh, was the Father's Word and he spoke the words of the Father. This account is about the Father's house, the Temple. Jesus' words were not his own but the Father's who sent him. This body of flesh, His Temple, was His Word to the world. Since he was the Father's Word, there were two witnesses as according to the Law. Jesus tells us many times in John's Gospel that he spoke the words of the Father. He kept his Father's word (8:55) for eternal life. For I did not speak from myself, but the Father Himself who sent me has given me commandment as to what to say and what to speak. I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me. John 12:50 The word Jesus had spoken at John 2:19 were the words of the Father. The Father's word is "the word of life" (1 John 1:1). In the Gospel of John, Jesus is the Father's word tabernacled in human flesh. Therefore, being the Father's word, what then did you expect the Father to say when these men asked Jesus by what authority he had cleared the Temple? "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up."   "I am the resurrection and the life." John 11:25

 

[Matthew9969]

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:22 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

No argument with this. It might be good to acknowledge this more frequently than is done.

Nonetheless, it is a bit like you hire a worker to reroof your house and he paints the house instead. Even though it did need painting, you are not happy. If he had painted in addition to reroofing, you would have been thrilled. But he painted instead of.

So it is with preaching good news and charitible works. Preaching always has the priority. See, for example, Matthew 9:35:

And Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the Kingdom and curing every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity.

I notice he was teaching and healing, not just knocking on doors.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

" Quoting the Watchtower does really take away from what you were trying to say earlier regarding Man’s visual and idolatry, as you said. Idolatry isnÂ’t that hard to identity and people who adorn something or someone other than God and ignore the teachings of Jesus are obviously the odd ones out when it comes to idolatry. Surely you could have done better than that. In addition to that, some of us tend to be very, very careful of whom we paint as an opponent because a small mishap can truly change something without notice." ...... and a LOT more ...

That is quite a thesis you have there ... and what I read seems well considered, but .......

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

ZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

ZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz

You may want to get yourself one of these to always be awake. 

[Witness]

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So, I take into account of what the bible says and not the words of people who do not really understand something. Knowledge is power for a reason, and in learning these things you will not be mislead so easily. But it seems that many people are astray because of errors in the bible such as the KJV and or of prophets who use errors to push a claim and or teaching.

Knowledge is a blessing from Holy Spirit Col 1:9,10; Eph 1:15-18  I am sorry if you feel I have been misled.  Through your words, there is both a condescending attitude, yet I do detect some compassion.   In general, you appear to have a strong defense for your own words.  Again, you assume much about me without knowing my full beliefs, which is quite incredible; judging me, when you have no basis to.   Some of what you say I am in agreement with; a large portion of it, I am not.   I defend GodÂ’s Word through scripture; trying fervently to boast only in the Father and Jesus, and not of myself.   Gal 6:3,4,14   I hope you understand this.  We both have the freedom to speak what we believe is truth. 

God’s presence is within one’s heart, fertile ground for the Word of God; not within the physical walls of a building, of any sort.  John 14:23; Luke 8:15,8; Col 1:9,10 This is a fleshly view inspired by the desires of men.  Gal 6:7-9 ;1 Cor 2:14; Col 3:2; Heb 11:8-10

But, I do appreciate the history lesson that I was already aware of. 

 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

What good is knowledge with a mistaken view? This concept

You may want to be a bit clearer.  What concept?  And, what is my mistaken view?

[Witness]

6 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

I notice he was teaching and healing, not just knocking on doors.

"Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves.  Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. ⁵ But whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’  And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you. ⁷ And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house. Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you.  And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ "  Luke 10:3-12

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

It just occurred to me that the expression "New Light" ... because it is constantly changing .... can be accurately accurately described as "Insufficient Light" ..... assuming it is not regressive Tachyons.

Let's say you have a "New Light" and you do this four times.

Each time you THINK what you know is true, but it turns out in fact, or by political edict, not to be true.

If we have "New Light", is what we had before "Old Darkness"?

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Of course "Insufficient Light" is only discerned from a future perspective.

There is the expression "We have perfect hindsight", looking back, but in reality even that is flawed.