Jump to content

  1. Srecko Sostar

    Srecko Sostar

  • Similar Content

    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      TTH:
      Just wait until YOU get to be 73, and find battle scars galore.
      A lot of mature restraint is really just being too TIRED.
      Ya wanna FIGHT!?
      ..... yeah, yeah, yeah ....... start without me.
      I need to take a nap.
      ==============================================================
       
      ... except for the Governing Body.  
      When THEY make mistakes, they pay no price whatsoever.
      WE DO.
      They .... never miss a meal.
    • By 4Jah2me
      So lets try to be a bit positive.  A question.  How is the GB and the JW Org moving forward SPIRITUALLY ?
      What progress has it made in the last fifty years ?   I'm not talking about physical things, not buildings, not books, not meeting times........ 
      I'm talking about purely spiritual matters.  Spiritual guidance, true spiritual love from the top of the Org down, mercy, understanding of people, serving the congregants as a way of serving God Himself (as Jesus did), showing patience without having weakness, making true adjustments according to true scripture not according to man's guesses. 
      You may of course comment as to what you feel would make for good spiritual progress within the JW Org too. 
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Norway is the great catalyst that will force the GB to start thinking about basic human rights, as currently there is a lot of discussion in the Norwegian Government about " ... Why are we giving the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society Norwegian dollars (Kroners) every year from Tax money for their charities ... for EACH and every of the approximately 112,000 JWs in Norway (paraphrased), when they prohibit their members to vote"... which THEY consider to be an inalienable, and non-negotiable human right of all peoples, everywhere.
      The WTB&TS is currently being governed by the Lawyers, Accountants, and the Finances department, with the GB not admitting being personally responsible for ANYTHING.
      What we consider "reasonable", they consider EXTREMIST, and many European nations give tax money to ALL legitimate churches, without restriction on how they spend it.
      By violating what these governments' and peoples' basic understanding on what constitutes extremism, soon, if not already, it is going to affect the flow of cash into the Society's Treasury.
      One of several major concerns of the Governing Body is to not hemorrhage money, as it has been doing for years in the constant Child Sexual Abuse court cases.
      THIS is what will drive any change .... not love ... not justice ...not fairness .... MONEY!
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      By the way .... has the Society recently decided that voting is a matter of personal conscience?
      What I have read is so "weasel worded", I cannot tell.

    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      I realize there are many reasons to go to an Assembly, or Convention, and when my children were living at home they would go to others' conventions  for a variety of reasons, as well as their own.
      I would always ask them when they returned home "What did you learn that was new?" .  This was important to me as I had to work long hours to afford to finance their explorations and socialization, which I thought was important ... but I still expected them to learn something new ... and since I was paying for their travels, to tell me what was going on.
      Generally, attendance to an out of town Convention nearby would cost about $200 a day, times three days, so that would be $600.
      Now that I am retired, and my income has been cut by about 80%, it's even MORE important to me to want to get good value for the time and money I would be spending for my wife and I to spend three days, traveling out of town, to learn something of lasting value .... something worth at least three days of our time, which is painfully obviously shorter, and the what is now considerable effort and considerable expense.
      In Engineering it's important that the "Law of diminishing returns" be observed so that you do not go physically, mentally or emotionally bankrupt.
      Perhaps I am just asking for some encouragement that the effort is worth the cost and effort, and that the benefit is worth it, so if I may ask ......
      WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?
      ......
       
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Is it fair?
       
       
      Is it FAIR.wmv
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      I find it interesting when so much is compared between the Jews and the JW's.
      But in my opinion, one big difference between being a Jew before and in the time of Jesus, and being a JW, is choice. 
      If a person was born into the Nation of Israel, they were born under Law and ruled over by the Religious leaders (and the Romans) at that time. There was no choice of being a Jew or not being a Jew. They were born into it. So of course many of them, probably all of them, committed 'sin' and had to make sin offerings. God had chosen that Nation, those people had responsibility but not of their choice. 
      Now, people that enter the JW religion do so voluntarily.  ( Unfortunately for those born into it, they have to go through the motions of serving the JW Org until they are of an age whereby they can leave home. Then, when of age they too can volunteer to be a JW or chose to leave the Org.). 
      There is a big difference from being born into a Nation which you may not like, than voluntarily joining a religion which you do like.
      So the big question is, if 'millions' of people voluntarily join this JW Org, why do so many commit child abuse, adultery and many other sins ? 
      If this is supposed to be 'THE true religion', why are the people not guided by God through Jesus  Christ ?  Just reading comments on here from so called JW's makes me laugh. There is no love, no mercy, no understanding, no respect even. 
      Being an ex JW and seeing things from both sides i have found more genuine love, kindness, friendship, respect, warmth, understanding etc outside of the Org than inside. Inside the Org people have to be told to 'love one another', outside the Org people do it anyway. 
      It has amazed me how JW's can really believe that God is with them when they are so cold and selfish.
      With the Jews that were born into that Nation, they had no choice about their way of life. It was basically a dictatorship by God. The Laws were from 'above'. Obviously for the right reason, to bring forth Jesus Christ who in turn would 'rescue' the human race from complete destruction. But it was a totally different situation to the JW Org today.
      So now all you 'JWs', think on it. Do you truly believe you are in this' special environment' within the Org ? Do you really think that your Org has God's approval ? 
      Think deeply about all the problems within JW Org. All the disgusting things being done voluntarily by all the volunteer JW's. 
      Now ask yourself, are you really a volunteer JW or are you trapped in the Org for fear of losing all those 'so called friends' ? 
      You know that you can only have your family and 'friends' as long as you are a JW.   Do you feel like the Jews must have felt, trapped in that Nation ? 
      As we know many of the Jews left the Jewish religion and way of life to follow Christ, but it was difficult for them. However, they did have God's approval and God, through Christ made this known clearly. And it seems that many are leaving the JW Org to seek God's approval too. 
      But remember that all JW's are volunteers, or should be, so why oh why is there so much trouble in that Org ? 
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Here is another question.
      If Christ has ALREADY come to Earth as an invisible presence, and is ruling as King NOW ......  starting in 1914 ...... why are we still celebrating the Memorial?
    • By The Librarian
      Part of a series on: Jehovah's Witnesses >
      Jehovah's Witnesses began capitalizing Governing Body as a proper noun in 1971;The Watchtower that year announced "The present Governing Body comprises eleven anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The original members of the 1971 Governing Body, all now deceased, are indicated in italics in the lists below.

      Current
      The following people are members of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses[7] (year appointed in parentheses): Samuel Herd (1999) Geoffrey Jackson (2005) M. Stephen Lett (1999) Gerrit Lösch (1994) Anthony Morris III (2005) Mark Sanderson (2012) David H. Splane (1999) Kenneth Cook (2018)  Deceased
      The following individuals were members of the Governing Body until death (years active in parentheses, including years as Watch Tower Society directors, informally identified as the "governing body" prior to 1971): Carey W. Barber (1977–2007) John (Jack) Barr (1977–2010) William Lloyd Barry (1974–1999) John C. Booth (1974–1996) Charles J. Fekel (1974–1977) Frederick William Franz (1944–1992)—5th President of Watch Tower Society George D. Gangas (1971–1994) John O. Groh (1965–1975) Milton George Henschel (1947–2003)—6th President of Watch Tower Society William K. Jackson (1971–1981) Theodore Jaracz (1974–2010) Karl F. Klein (1974–2001) Nathan Homer Knorr (1940–1977)—4th President of Watch Tower Society Guy H. Pierce (1999-2014) Martin Pötzinger (1977–1988) Albert D. Schroeder (1974–2006) Grant Suiter (1938–1983) Thomas J. Sullivan (1932–1974) Lyman Alexander Swingle (1945–2001) Daniel Sydlik (1974–2006) Resigned
      The following individuals resigned or were asked to step down from their positions in the body (years active in parentheses): Ewart Chitty (1974–1979) Raymond Franz (1971–1980) Leo K. Greenlees (1971–1984)  
    • By Jack Ryan
      Loesch, Barr in the middle, Barry in the foreground
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      Luke 10 v 21  In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.
      This seems to show that 'higher education' was not needed to learn, understand and teach, the truth from God, at that time. 
      It seems to be a well know thing within the JW Org and by people outside of same, that JW's are 'told' not to aim for higher education. I say told, although some will say strongly advised, with a possible caution of being disfellowshipped. 
      Now I've noticed on here recently that deep conversation about many things has been and is taking place. Politics earthwide. religious beliefs earthwide and the latest thing seems to be Evolution (from a very deep standpoint ). ( These things were never taught to me at school. )
      I left school at 15 years old, as soon as I was able, for reasons previously mentioned. Here in UK now teenagers have to remain in education until they are 18. The three years from 15 to 18 seem to me to be almost 'higher education', but compulsory.  How much they learn at school now I've no idea. 
      My feelings are, and yes ok i cannot put proof to these feelings, but, my feelings are, that all forms of higher education are advised against by the GB and the JW Org. Some of you may have some proof of this in writing. So, where does this leave JW's ?
      If a young person leaves school to go into full time 'service' ministry, they do not get a higher education. Their 'basic' education may have been just that, very basic. They are then not 'qualified' to talk to others on a higher education level, and this might even be to the point of not understanding such things as are being discussed on here lately. 
      ( Much of what is being discussed leaves me miles behind. I'm a very simple person. Plus at 69 I forget more than i learn. Yes I do write lots of notes and have books for recording different things, but the mind boggles. )
      With respect for those I knew and loved in the past, within my ex congregation, many of them were 'simple country folk'. And I think Tom said about not having the time or inclination to do research online or or otherwise. So let us go back to the scripture at the top. 
      So many questions. Does God reveal more to those of a lesser education ?  Is higher education and greater knowledge a disadvantage when wanting to serve God properly?
      Or is it that those of higher education are too stubborn to learn God's way ?  Too proud maybe ?   
      There are many things that the Bible doesn't tell us. is that deliberate ? Does God want to keep it simple for us ? So, should we pursue more knowledge about worldly things ? 
      A problem may occur when talking to others about God, in that they may have more knowledge on a certain subject than we do and therefore believe something different. Should we then educate ourselves to their level on the same subject, or just pass them by ?  Bearing in mind the scripture at the top of this page. 
      There has to be a balance of course. But my feelings are that the GB would like JW's to be educated only by the Watchtower studies and by the 'workbook' evening meeting studies. And of course by personal Bible reading.   But do JW's do as they are told in this respect or do a lot of them 'educate themselves', or take further education elsewhere ? 
       
       
    • By The Librarian
      All posts tagged 'Geoffrey Jackson" 
      Brother Jackson started pioneering in February 1971 in Tasmania, the island state of Australia. In June 1974, he married Jeanette (Jenny). Shortly thereafter, they were appointed to serve as special pioneers. From 1979 to 2003, they served as missionaries in Tuvalu, Samoa, and Fiji—island nations in the South Pacific. While in the islands, Brother and Sister Jackson also contributed much to the work of translating Bible literature. Beginning in 1992, Brother Jackson served on the Branch Committee in Samoa, and from 1996, on the Branch Committee in Fiji. In April 2003, he and Jenny became part of the United States Bethel family and began to work in the Translation Services Department. Soon thereafter, Brother Jackson was made a helper to the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body. (See w06 3/15 p. 26) Tragically, Geoffrey's wife Jenny lost her battle with cancer and died 22 December 2009 at the age of 54. Geoffrey has since remarried. He is one of the youngest members of the Governing Body, born in 1955.   Recent news:
      Geoffrey Jackson testifies at the Australian Royal Commission 

      Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson Declines to Appear Before Australian Royal Commission and then is ordered to appear on Friday August 14th at 11:00am Australian time.
       
      Milshon Masara (L) posing for a picture with guest speaker Geoffrey Jackson and his current wife, Loraini Jackson. 

      Taken at the Zimbabwe 2014 International Convention - They came, saw and made Zim richer.
       

      Geoffrey and Rae Jackson

      Loraini Jackson is from Tazmania according to this talk: 
      Related Items:
      Talks by Geoffrey Jackson
      When Is Armageddon Coming? - Encouraging clip of a talk by Geoffrey Jackson of the Governing Body

      Talks translated into Spanish
      Enseñe a sus hijos a amar el Reino de Dios - Teach your children to love God's Kingdom
      Geoffrey Jackson knows how to dance and party!


      Books by Geoffrey Jackson available for sale on Amazon.com
       

      International delegates running into Geoffrey and Loraini Jackson in Harare, Zimbabwe.   
    • By JOHN BUTLER
      "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"
      2 Timothy 3 v 16
      Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?                 
      The 2nd book of Timothy was written 65 C.E.  However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.
      So we have two points, 1. The writings were not complete when Paul wrote that information. 2, The Bible had not been constructed so no idea would have been formed as to what the Bible would contain. 
      Were there other writings ? Would they be considered as Scripture? 
      It seems that Paul was inspired to write that "All scripture is inspired.... " 
       
    • By TrueTomHarley
      How many of them do you want answered?
      We went round and round on a prior thread and you just repackage your questions and run them through again.
      The verse says: ‘Taste and see that Jehovah is good.’ If you tasted and saw that he was bad, what can I say? Check your taste buds. But you can just as easily say it to me.
      It may be that you should be praying to The LORD. It is the GB that brings God’s name to the fore, nearly everyone else seeks to bury it, and you have made clear that you don’t trust the GB as far as you can spit.
    • By Jack Ryan
      I suspect @James Thomas Rook Jr. made this one... LOL
    • By Jack Ryan
      Did You Know?
      You can openly and publicly question if the President of the United States is fit for office. You can question his policies, his statements, and his character. Your family and friends will not be taken away from you.
      You can openly and publicly question the policies, fitness for office, statements, and character of governors, senators, congressmen, judges, and various other politicians and leaders in the United States. Your family and friends will not be taken away from you.
      If you believe in a god, you can pray to your god questioning his authority, ability to rule, his decisions, and his purpose. When you open your eyes, you will find that your family and friends have not and will not be taken away from you.
      Jesus had his authority questioned many times. (Matt. 21: 23-27) According to the Bible, he would have had the power to punish those questioning him. Yet, he did nothing to them. He harmed no one physically or emotionally.
      You can confidentially question the ability to lead, the validity, the teachings, the doctrines and policies of the Governing Body to only two family members or close companions.  Your family and friends WILL be taken away from you. You will be labeled as dead, evil, and mentally diseased. You can and will likely lose all the social connections and relationships you have developed over a lifetime.
      Only absolute dictators take away the rights of those they rule if their authority is questioned. Look at the examples of Stalin, Hitler, Bashar al-Assad, and Kim Jong Un. 
      The Governing Body today will attend court hearings in other countries rejoicing when freedoms are granted to their followers. They will organize letter writing campaigns to lobby for religious freedoms of Jehovah's Witnesses. They will take legal arguments to the highest courts to fight for the rights of the organization that they govern. Yet, all it takes for you to lose all of your freedoms to be with your very own family is the admission to enough witnesses that you no longer believe the Governing Body are chosen by God and have authority over you. 
      Did You Know? The Governing Body will fight tooth and nail for their own perceived freedoms, but they have no problems taking away your own freedoms and declaring you dead if you dare to question them.
    • By The Librarian
      Part of a series on: Jehovah's Witnesses

      The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the ruling council of Jehovah's Witnesses[1] based in Brooklyn, New York. The body assumes responsibility for formulating policy and doctrines, producing material for publications and conventions, and administering its worldwide branch office staff.[2][3] Members of the Governing Body say they are followers of Christ rather than religious leaders.[4] One member explained the Governing Body as being "Guardians of the Doctrine" when under oath in Australia in 2015.[119]
      Its size has varied, from seven (2010–2012)[5] to eighteen (1974–1980)[6]members.[7][8] As of October 2012, there are eight members.[5] Members of the Governing Body are not elected; membership is only possible by invitation of existing members.[9]Updated: Current list of the Governing Body as of October 2014
      History

      The Governing Body in 1975
      Since its incorporation in 1884, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has been directed by a president and board of directors. Until January 1976, the president exercised complete control of doctrines, publications and activity of the Watch Tower Society and the religious denominations with which it was connected—the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses.[10][11][12]
      When the Society's second president, J.F. Rutherford, encountered opposition from directors in 1917, he dismissed them; in 1925 he overruled the Watch Tower Society's editorial committee—selected by Charles Taze Russell to have editorial control of The Watch Tower after his death—when it opposed publication of an article that altered doctrines on Bible chronology related to 1914. In 1931, the editorial committee was dissolved.[13][14] 
      as of 2013
         
      In 1943 The Watchtower described the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society as the "legal governing body" of anointed Jehovah's Witnesses.[15] A year later, in an article opposing the democratic election of congregation elders, the magazine said the appointment of congregation servants was the duty of "a visible governing body under Jehovah God and his Christ."[16] For several years, the role and specific identity of the governing body remained otherwise undefined. A 1955 organizational handbook stated that "the visible governing body has been closely identified with the board of directors of this corporation."[17] Referring to events related to their 1957 convention, a 1959 publication said "the spiritual governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses watched the developments [then] the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society [acted]."[18] The 1970 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses noted that the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania was the organization used to plan the activity of Jehovah's Witnesses and provide them with "spiritual food", then declared: "So really the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania."[19]
      On October 1, 1971, Watch Tower Society vice-president Frederick Franz addressed the annual meeting of the Pennsylvania corporation in Buckingham, Pennsylvania, stating that the legal corporation of the Watch Tower Society was an "agency" or "temporary instrument" used by the Governing Body on behalf of the"faithful and discreet slave".[20] Three weeks later, on October 20, four additional men joined the seven members of the Society's board of directors on what became known as a separate, expanded Governing Body.[21] The board of directors had until then met only sporadically, usually only to discuss the purchase of property or new equipment, leaving decisions concerning material to be published in Watch Tower Society publications to the president and vice-president, Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz.[20][22] The Watchtower of December 15, 1971 was the first to unambiguously capitalize the term "Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses" as the defined group leading the religion, with a series of articles explaining its role and its relationship with the Watch Tower Society.[2][23]
      The focus on the new concept of "theocratic" leadership was accompanied by statements that the structure was not actually new: The Watch Tower declared that "a governing body made its appearance" some time after the formation of Zion's Watch Tower Society in 1884,[24] though it had not beenreferred to as such at the time.[10]
      The article claimed that Watch Tower Society president Charles Taze Russell had been a member of the governing body.[24] The 1972 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses stated that following Rutherford's death in 1942 "one of the first things that the governing body decided upon was the inauguration of the Theocratic Ministry School" and added that the "governing body" had published millions of books and Bibles in the previous thirty years.[25] Raymond Franz has disputed those claims, stating that the actions of presidents Russell, Rutherford and Knorr in overriding and failing to consult with directors proved the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses had been under a monarchical rule until 1976, leaving no decisions to a "governing body".[26]
      In 1972, a Question From Readers article in The Watchtower further reinforced the concept of the "Governing Body"; the magazine said the term referred to an agency that administers policy and provides organizational direction, guidance and regulation and was therefore "appropriate, fitting and Scriptural."[23][27]Organizational changes at the highest levels of the Watch Tower Society in 1976 significantly increased the powers and authority of the Governing Body.[28] The body has never had a legal corporate existence and operates through the Watch Tower Society and its board of directors.[29]

      Re-organization
      After its formal establishment in 1971, the Governing Body met regularly but, according to Raymond Franz, only briefly; Franz claims meetings were sometimes as short as seven minutes,[30] to make decisions about branch appointments and conduct that should be considered disfellowshipping offenses.[31][32] Franz claims that in 1971 and again in 1975, the Governing Body debated the extent of the authority it should be given.[33]
      Headquarters purge

      Raymond Franz claimed that in 1980, unease with doctrines surrounding the significance of 1914 surfaced within the Governing Body. In February of that year, three Governing Body members—aware that those who had been alive in 1914 were dying out despite the teaching that their generation would live to see Armageddon—proposed a doctrinal change to identify the "generation" who would see Armageddon as those who witnessed the 1957 launch of the Russian satellite Sputnik, which would be considered a 'sign in heaven'.The proposal, which would have extended the deadline for Armageddon by 43 years, failed to gain a majority vote.[36][37] Former Witnesses James Penton and Heather and Gary Botting claimed that internal dissatisfaction with official doctrines continued to grow, leading to a series of secret investigations and judicial hearings. As a result, the Governing Body led a purge of dissenting Brooklyn headquarters staff in April and May 1980.[38][39][40] Raymond Franz claimed he was forced to resign from the Governing Body, and he was later disfellowshipped from the religion. The Watch Tower Society responded with a new, hardened attitude towards the treatment of expelled Witnesses.[38][39][41] In his 1997 study of the religion, Penton concluded that since Raymond Franz's expulsion in 1980, the Governing Body displayed an increased level of conservatism, sturdy resistance to changes of policy and doctrines, and an increased tendency to isolate dissidents within the organization by means of disfellowshipping.[42]
      Helpers
      The April 15, 1992 issue of The Watchtower carried an article entitled Jehovah’s Provision, the “Given Ones” which drew a parallel between ancient non-Israelites who had been assigned temple duties (the "Nethinim" and "sons of the servants of Solomon") and Witness elders in positions of responsibility immediately under the oversight of the Governing Body who did not profess to be "anointed".[43]Both that issue of The Watchtower and the 1993 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses carried the same announcement:
      In view of the tremendous increase worldwide, it seems appropriate at this time to provide the Governing Body with some additional assistance. Therefore it has been decided to invite several helpers, mainly from among the great crowd, to share in the meetings of each of the Governing Body Committees, that is, the Personnel, Publishing, Service, Teaching, and Writing Committees. Thus, the number attending the meetings of each of these committees will be increased to seven or eight. Under the direction of the Governing Body committee members, these assistants will take part in discussions and will carry out various assignments given them by the committee. This new arrangement goes into effect May 1, 1992. For many years now, the number of the remnant of anointed Witnesses has been decreasing, while the number of the great crowd has increased beyond our grandest expectations.[44][45]
      Each of the current Governing Body members served as a committee "helper" before being appointed to the Governing Body itself.[46][47][48] The appointment of helpers to the Governing Body committees was described in 2006 as "still another refinement."[49]

      2000 and beyond
      Until 2000, the directors and officers of the Watch Tower Society were members of the Governing Body. Since then, members of the ecclesiastical Governing Body have not served as directors of any of the various corporations used by Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Governing Body has delegated such administrative responsibilities to other members of the religion.[50] The current president of the Watch Tower Society, Don A. Adams, is not a member of the Governing Body. As of October 2012, the Governing Body comprises eight members, as shown below.
      Governing Body 2003 


      Photo shot prior to the death of Guy Pierce in the 2014 release "God's Kingdom Rules!"
      One of our favorite moments of Annual Meeting…when all 7 of the Governing Body came out and sang with the Watchtower Chorus the last and newest song called: “Jehovah Is Your Name”….what a powerful and moving 100 Year Celebration! @stephendianna
       
      See also
      Organizational structure of Jehovah's Witnesses Letters from the Governing Body Funeral (Memorial) Programs for late **Governing Body** Members How to remember Governing Body Members' names Governing Body signing Bibles for public officials Residences of the Governing Body David H Splane: The Slave Is Not 1900 Years Old - Matt 24v45 - Frederick W. Franz was against the formation of a Governing Body References
      Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 216. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "Questions From Readers". The Watchtower: 703. November 15, 1972. "Our active leader today", The Watchtower, September 15, 2010, page 27, "They recognize, however, that Christ is using a small group of anointed Christian men as a Governing Body to lead and direct his disciples on earth." "Bearing Thorough Witness" About God's Kingdom. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 2009. p. 110. As of September 2005, twelve members listed (See The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26)
      Schroeder died March 8, 2006. (See The Watchtower, September 15, 2006, page 31)
      Sydlik died April 18, 2006. (See The Watchtower, January 1, 2007, page 8)
      Barber died April 8, 2007. (See The Watchtower, October 15, 2007, page 31)
      Jaracz died June 9, 2010. (See The Watchtower, November 15, 2010, page 23)
      Barr died December 4, 2010. (See The Watchtower, May 15, 2011, page 6)
      Mark Sanderson appointed in September 2012 "A New Member of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, July 15, 2013, page 26.[1] Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 217. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (2007). Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. pp. 4, 6. Botting, Heather & Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 178. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. p. 123. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 58.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. pp. 186, footnote. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 162–163, 214. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 61–62. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 59. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. The Watchtower. July 15, 1943. page 216, paragraph 24. The Watchtower. November 1, 1944. page 328, paragraph 32. Qualified to be Ministers. Watch Tower Society. 1955. p. 381. cited by Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience, page 74 "Divine Will International Assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses", The Watchtower, February 15, 1959, page 115, "So with intense interest the spiritual governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses watched the developments... Without delay the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society closed a contract with the owners to use the Polo Grounds simultaneously with Yankee Stadium." Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. Watch Tower Society. 1970. p. 65. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 57.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond. Crisis of Conscience. p. 44. The seven directors at October 20 were Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, Grant Suiter, Thomas Sullivan, Milton Henschel, Lyman Swingle and John Groh. The additional four to form the Governing Body were William Jackson, Leo Greenlees, George Gangas and Raymond Franz. Testimony by Fred Franz, Lord Strachan vs. Douglas Walsh Transcript, Lord Strachan vs. Douglas Walsh, 1954, as cited by Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience, 2007, page 75-76. "Theocratic Organization with Which to Move Forward Now; A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower. December 15, 1971. "A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower: 761. December 15, 1971. Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. 1972. pp. 254–257. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 78.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "Questions From Readers". The Watchtower: 703. November 15, 1972. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 44–110. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 228. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 45.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. p. 46.ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 215. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 81–105. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 80–107. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. Jehovah's Witnesses–Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Society. 1993. pp. 108–109. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 218. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Franz, Raymond (1997). Crisis of Conscience. p. 262. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 117–123. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Botting, Heather & Gary (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 158–165. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. "Witness Under Prosecution", Richard H. Ostling, Anne Constable,//Time// Magazine, February 22, 1982. Franz, Raymond (2007). "11-12". Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 219, 297–302, 319. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "Jehovah’s Provision, the “Given Ones”", The Watchtower, April 15, 1992, pages 16-17 "Announcement", The Watchtower, April 15, 1992, page 31 "Organizing for Further Expansion", 1993 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 253-254 "Governing Body Addition", The Watchtower, November 1, 1994, page 29, "The new member is Gerrit Lösch. ... Lösch has served in the Executive Offices and as an assistant to the Service Committee." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, January 1, 2000, page 29, "The new members, all anointed Christians, are Samuel F. Herd; M. Stephen Lett; Guy H. Pierce; and David H. Splane. Samuel Herd ... was also serving as a helper to the Service Committee. Stephen Lett ... was a helper to the Teaching Committee. Guy Pierce ... had been serving as a helper to the Personnel Committee. David Splane ... had been a helper to the Writing Committee." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26, "Geoffrey W. Jackson and Anthony Morris III—would be added to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. ... In April 2003, [Jackson] became part of the United States Bethel family and began to work in the Translation Services Department. Soon thereafter, Brother Jackson was made a helper to the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body ... 2002 [Morris] worked in the Service Department at Patterson and later as a helper to the Service Committee of the Governing Body." "Walking in the Path of Increasing Light", The Watchtower, February 15, 2006, page 28 "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation". The Watchtower: 29. 15 January 2001. The Watchtower, May 15, 2008, page 29 "How the Governing Body is Organized", The Watchtower, May 15, 2008, page 29. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 85, 115. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "A History-Making Meeting", The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 2011, page 21. "Schools That Teach Jehovah's Ways", //2012 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses//, page 13-17. "Theocratic Schools-Evidence of Jehovah's Love", //The Watchtower//, September 15, 2012, page 13-17. "A “Body of Elders” with Rotating Chairmanship", The Watchtower, November 15, 1971, pages 699,700, "how will the “body of elders” in each congregation be selected? The governing body through the Watch Tower Society will send out a letter asking the committee that now looks after each congregation’s activity to...prayerfully consider who within your congregation really meets the qualifications of an elder or overseer. ...Then recommendations will be made to the governing body. ...After the governing body receives recommendations from the congregation, then proper appointments will be made. The governing body will do the appointing of elders in every congregation and this information will be sent out by the governing body through the various offices of the Society throughout the world." Hope Based on the Unfolding Purpose of God", The Watchtower, February 1, 1975, page 86 "Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 15 "Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 15, "In addition to appointing Branch Committee members, the Governing Body appoints Bethel elders and traveling overseers. However, they do commission responsible brothers to act for them in making certain other appointments." "“Keep Holding Men of That Sort Dear”", The Watchtower, October 1, 1988, page 18-19, "[The] traveling overseers sent forth by the Governing Body to preach the good news and help the congregations should be received hospitably and with respect. ...Elders, in particular, should show proper respect for these visiting representatives of the Governing Body. They are sent to the congregations because of their spiritual qualities and their experience, which is usually more extensive than that of many local elders." [emph added] "Cooperating With the Governing Body Today", The Watchtower, March 15, 1990, pages 19-20, "Since February 1, 1976, each of the branches of the Watch Tower Society has had a Branch Committee made up of capable men appointed by the Governing Body. As representatives of the Governing Bodyfor the country or countries under the supervision of their branch, these brothers must be faithful, loyal men. ...Branch Committees recommend mature, spiritual men to serve as circuit and district overseers. After being appointed directly by the Governing Body, they serve as traveling overseers. These brothers visit circuits and congregations in order to build them up spiritually and help them apply instructions received from the Governing Body." [emph added] "Humbly Submitting to Loving Shepherds", The Watchtower, April 1, 2007, page 27 "The Watchtower and Awake!—Timely Journals of Truth". The Watchtower: 21. January 1, 1994. "Building for an Eternal Future". The Watchtower: 25. January 1, 1986. 2012 Annual Meeting Program (Gov. Body is "Faithful & Discreet Slave" explained in 8 minute clip) "Seek God's guidance in all things", The Watchtower, April 15, 2008, page 11. "‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’". The Watchtower: 200. April 1, 1972. "the modern-day “prophet,” the spirit-begotten, anointed ones who are the nucleus of Jehovah’s witnesses today" "The Things Revealed Belong to Us", The Watchtower, May 15, 1986, page 13. Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. p. 153. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body, The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, page 24 ¶18 Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 211. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. "The faithful slave and its governing body", The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, pages 23-24, "They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special insights beyond what even some experienced members of the "great crowd" may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the 'other sheep' have. They do not expect special treatment; nor do they claim that their partaking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation." "A Secret Christians Dare Not Keep!", The Watchtower, June 1, 1997, page 14. "Insight That Jehovah Has Given", The Watchtower, March 15, 1989, page 22, "It is through the columns of The Watchtower that explanations of vital Scriptural truths have been provided for us by Jehovah’s 'faithful and discreet slave.' The Watchtower is the principal instrument used by the 'slave' class for dispensing spiritual food." "The faithful slave and its governing body", The Watchtower, June 15, 2009, pages 23-24. "The Spirit Searches into the Deep Things of God", The Watchtower, July 15, 2010, page 23, "When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of 'the faithful and discreet slave' at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all." "Question From Readers", "The Watchtower", August 15, 2011, page 22 "Annual Meeting Report". "A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, December 15, 1971, page 762 "The Governing Body", 1973 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 257, "The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses consists of eleven brothers, all anointed of God. They are as follows: Frederick W. Franz, Raymond V. Franz, George D. Gangas, Leo K. Greenlees, John O. Groh, Milton G. Henschel, William K. Jackson, Nathan H. Knorr, Grant Suiter, Thomas J. Sullivan and Lyman A. Swingle." "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, January 1, 2000, page 29 "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 26 "Governing Body Addition", The Watchtower, November 1, 1994, page 29 "A New Member of the Governing Body", //The Watchtower//, July 15, 2013, page 26. Interviews - 133rd Gilead Class (stated at video b. Mark Sanderson of Gov. Body) "Rejoicing Over "Victory With the Lamb", The Watchtower, October 15, 2007, page 31. "Britain", 2000 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 130 "New Members of the Governing Body", The Watchtower, November 15, 1977, page 680 "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", The Watchtower, January 15, 1975, page 60 "We Were a Team", The Watchtower, April 1, 2001, page 24. "He Humbly Served Jehovah", The Watchtower, June 15, 1996, page 32. "A Joyful Perseverer in Good Work", The Watchtower, July 1, 1977, page 399. "Service Assembly and Annual Meeting—Pittsburg", The Watchtower, November 1, 1944, page 334. "How the Governing Body Differs From a Legal Corporation", The Watchtower, January 15, 2001, page 28. "His Deeds Follow Him", The Watchtower, December 1, 1994, page 31. Franz, Raymond (2007). Crisis of Conscience. Commentary Press. pp. 273–336. ISBN 0-914675-23-0. "Gilead Sends Missionaries “to the Most Distant Part of the Earth”", The Watchtower, December 15, 1999, page 28, "Theodore Jaracz, a member of the Governing Body, who himself graduated with Gilead’s seventh class in 1946" "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", The Watchtower, January 15, 1975, page 60 Theodore Jaracz Memorial Service Brochure (1.4MB) "Jehovah Has Dealt Rewardingly With Me", The Watchtower, October 1, 1984, page 21. Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, "Background of N. H. Knorr", page 91: "On June 10, 1940, he became the vice-president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Pennsylvania corporation)." The Watchtower, July 15,1977, "Firm to the End", page 441. "A Staunch Fighter for the Truth", The Watchtower, September 15, 1988, page 31. "His Delight Was in the Law of Jehovah", The Watchtower, September 15, 2006, page 31. "The corporation, the WATCH TOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY, pursuant to its charter and by-laws, and the laws of the State of Pennsylvania, held its annual meeting at Pittsburgh, North Side, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, on the first day of October, A.D. 1938, at which annual meeting a Board of Directors was elected as follows, to wit: J. F. Rutherford, C. A. Wise, W. E. Van Amburgh, H. H. Riemer, T. J. Sullivan, Wm. P. Heath, Jr., and Grant Suiter, to hold office for a period of three years, or until their successors are duly elected." - 1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, "Election", page 195 "A Loyal Fighter Passes On", The Watchtower, February 1, 1984, page 9. "He Ran for “The Prize of the Upward Call” and Won!", The Watchtower, September 15, 1974, page 554, "On October 31, 1932, he [Sullivan] was made a member of the board of directors of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania; he was also one of the eleven-member governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses." "A Time of Testing (1914-1918)", Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, ©1993 Watch Tower, page 71, "Thomas (Bud) Sullivan, who later served as a member of the Governing Body, recalled: “It was my privilege to visit Brooklyn Bethel in the late summer of 1918 during the brothers’ incarceration." Jehovah's Witnesses–Proclaimers of God's Kingdom. Watch Tower Society. 1993. p. 91. "How Priceless Your Friendship, O God!", The Watchtower, June 1, 1985, page 27. "Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses Enlarged", 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 60 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses. 1980. pp. 257–258. "Announcements", Our Kingdom Ministry, August 1980, page 2, "Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980." Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 120. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Beverley, James A. (1986). Crisis of Allegiance. Burlington, Ontario: Welch Publishing Company. p. 71. ISBN 0-920413-37-4. 1986 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, ©Watch Tower, page 255 Penton, M. James (1997). Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. pp. 322, 393. ISBN 0-8020-7973-3. Geoffrey Jackson testifies before the Australian Royal Commission 2015  
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      As my wife and I are preparing to adopt five children, and knowing historically how many elders' children have abandoned the Truth, for whatever reasons there might be, common to mankind ... the thought occurred to me ... Were all of the Apostles Single?
      If any were married, how did they balance their responsibilities to their families, with the field ministry?
      If they were in the Ministry, were they supported by the congregations from the Apostles money box ... and were their families also supported as they rove about ministering about the Good News?
      If so, that would indicate a paid clergy !
      I suppose it all hinges on he first question.
      WERE ALL OF THE APOSTLES SINGLE ?
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Which Pill Would We Take ..... The Red Pill? .... or the Blue Pill?
      In the political world, more and more people are rejecting "Fake News" as provided by CNN (Clinton News Network), ABC (All 'bout Clinton) and NBC (Nothin' but Clinton), etc., and are seeking the truth about what they are being told ..... wherever it may be found.
      Today John Stossel had an article about this on Foxnews which is incredibly important ... not only for the political ramifications ... but every manner of philosophical thought ....  and our very view of how the Universe works, and what "makes it tick".
      If you have seen the movie "The Matrix" .... a MUST SEE movie .... you already know the common expression "Red Pill? Blue Pill?".
      If you don't ... YOU SHOULD. 
      The concept behind the expression is incredibly important ... as to whether we live in and artificial fantasy construct world ... or a world of what is actually REAL.
      JOHN STOSSEL: More people tuning out mainstream media, embracing 'truth'
      http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/03/27/john-stossel-why-so-many-are-taking-red-pill-and-discovering-truth-about-mainstream-media.html
      Oh ... and if you have not seen it .... get a copy of the movie, so you will actually get a "feel" for the depth of the now commonly understood  idiomatic expression.
      (For those in Rio Linda, that has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with basic understanding .....)
      Grok?
       
       
       
       
       
    • By Noble Berean
      The February 2017 WT had this to say about the GB:
      Compare this to the November 2016 WT which had this to say about the GB's authority:
      The GB wants the unquestioned control and the credit for leading God's organization, but they also wants total freedom from accountability when they are wrong. The existence of the org is based around everyone accepting this premise.
      But how is this premise not 100% illogical and absurd? The GB is presenting itself in 2 completely conflicting ways:
      The GB is uninspired, fallible, and errs, so they should not be blamed for incorrect direction. The GB should not be questioned by JWs, and there is no place for independent thinking. The GB cannot state they make errors in their direction and simultaneously demand unquestioned obedience to their direction. That doesn't make any sense. If anything, JWs should be skeptical of the GB's directions because of their history of incorrect direction. However, critical thinking is discouraged as a negative trait in organization literature--even when that thinking is based on the Bible.
      If there is a God, then surely he is just, and I cannot imagine he would structure an organization on such an illogical premise.
      Think of how this premise negatively affects JWs. Adherents are essentially commanded to follow direction that may be 100% wrong. They are told to "wait on Jehovah" if they have doubts. This also means that a JW could be punished for having a correct idea that is currently not in harmony with the GB. I'm sure this has happened with JWs over its history.
      Also, isn't it disturbing that the GB have set things up so that they have maximum control and minimum accountability? It's the definition of plausible deniability. Everyone here is well aware of the legal issues with blood transfusion rejection and the sex abuse. In these legal matters, it is pretty clear that the organization is distancing themselves from any accountability and is instead placing the burden on the individual JW. This flies in the face of the culture of the religion where everything a JW does revolves around supporting the organization. There is no room for personal opinion. To suggest otherwise in legal cases is very dishonest and shady. Moreover, it goes against the idea that their is an equal relationship--we're supposed to die over organizational doctrines but the GB won't even acknowledge their role in court proceedings?
      The very fact the organization uses plausible deniability in their literature is highly suspect. The fact that they can force JWs to follow their direction, but when it's wrong they can point to a WT and say, "See! We said we were fallible and uninspired!" It all smells dishonest and shady.
    • By The Librarian
      Kenneth Cook was announced today at morning worship as the new member of the Governing Body. 

      He was formerly a helper on the writing committee.
      He is an anointed brother in bethel that about 3 years ago got assigned to Writing Correspondence from Bethel Office in Wallkill.
      He is not a rule oriented brother at all. Definitely a people person, a pleasurable brother. Makes people around him feel relaxed an at ease.
      Brother Cook started pioneering on September 1, 1982, and began serving at the United States branch on October 12, 1984.
      He has been in Bethel his entire life evidently. No children. 
      The Governing Body is now composed of eight anointed brothers.
      For more about the Governing Body see:
      I will update this list of members here:

    • By Witness
      “And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” Matt 8:20
      "Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness,
      his upper rooms by injustice,
      making his own people work for nothing,
      not paying them for their labor.
      14 He says, ‘I will build myself a great palace
      with spacious upper rooms.Â’
      So he makes large windows in it,
      panels it with cedar
      and decorates it in red.
      15 “Does it make you a king
      to have more and more cedar?
      Did not your father have food and drink?
      He did what was right and just,
      so all went well with him.
      16 He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
      and so all went well.
      Is that not what it means to know me?”
      declares the Lord.
      17 “But your eyes and your heart
      are set only on dishonest gain,
      on shedding innocent blood
      and on oppression and extortion.” Jer 22:13-17
       
    • Guest Nicole
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Jehovah's Witnesses put former Brooklyn Heights hotel up for sale
      See also:

      By Lore Croghan
      Brooklyn Daily Eagle
      Attention nostalgic Brooklyn Dodgers fans!
      The Jehovah's Witnesses are selling the former Brooklyn Heights hotel where the forever-missed baseball team stayed during home games.
      The Watchtower has just announced it is putting The Towers, also known as 21 Clark St., up for sale.
      The Dodgers, who in the 1950s infamously left Brooklyn for Elsewhere (to this day, some of us find this trauma hard to write about), used the hotel as their home base, so to speak.
      The 313,768-square-foot, 16-story building is now a residence for the Jehovah's Witnesses — but not for much longer.
      The religious organization is liquidating its once-massive Brooklyn Heights and DUMBO real-estate holdings because it is moving its headquarters to upstate Warwick, NY.
      The Leverich Towers Hotel, as 21 Clark was originally known, had its grand opening in 1928. The architecture firm was Starrett & Van Vleck — which also designed Saks Fifth Avenue's and Lord & Taylor's high-profile Manhattan flagship stores.
      “When you walk the streets of Brooklyn Heights and come alongside The Towers, the elegance of the building commands your attention,” Watchtower spokesman David Semonian said in the announcement about the building's sale.
      “Yet beyond the beauty that we have worked hard to tastefully preserve, The Towers has been a comfortable home for members of our headquarters staff for decades,” he said.
      'The Aristocrat of Brooklyn Hotels'
      The former hotel, which is located on the corner of Willow Street, is located in the landmarked part of Brooklyn Heights. So a purchaser is likely to leave the exterior of the stunning building — which has colonnaded, Venetian-style towers gracing its four corners — largely intact.
      In the property's early days, it was advertised as “The Aristocrat of Brooklyn Hotels.”
      A rooftop terrace with knockout views of Lower Manhattan, New York Harbor and the Brooklyn Bridge that helped give the hotel its cachet remains intact.
      In 1975, the Watchtower bought the magnificent building for $1,992,229.08 from a trust with Leo Rosner and Philip Robbins as trustees, city Finance Department records indicate.
      Following the purchase, the Watchtower turned the hotel into a residence and dining hall for more than 1,000 people who worked at the organization's world headquarters.
      Another Watchtower spokesman, Richard Devine, said the Jehovah's Witnesses were expanding their printing plants at that time and needed space to accommodate increasing numbers of personnel.
      The Jehovah's Witnesses did a more extensive renovation of The Towers starting in 1995, Devine added.
      The Watchtower has been working for the past several years to sell off its Brooklyn real estate portfolio. The latest round of marketing started this past December.
      Vincent Viola, the owner of the Florida Panthers hockey team, recently bought Brooklyn Heights residential property 124 Columbia Heights for $105 million.
      Donald Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner has a handshake deal to buy the Watchtower's Brooklyn Heights headquarters at 25-30 Columbia Heights plus DUMBO development site 85 Jay St. for roughly $700 million, the New York Post has reported.
      Source: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2016/5/24/jehovahs-witnesses-put-former-brooklyn-heights-hotel-sale
       




    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Melody's Interview at 2017 "Don't Give Up" Regional Convention". 
      Last year my wife and I attended an Assembly in Orangeburg, SC, where a brother in an interview on stage was proud that he had not said a single word to his disfellowshipped father in over 20 years.   We were sitting up close and could see his face in person, and on the large monitors. His declaration of cruelty was followed by intense applause from the audience. 
      We were stunned and horrified.
      This video was originally posted on YOUTUBE by the mother of Melody, at a Regional 2017 Convention where she is proud of having shunned her sister, who is disfellowshipped, but many adverse comments on YOUTUBE made her ashamed .....  and she took the posting down.  
      I got this video copy from the  Russian equivalent of YOUTUBE web site,  RUTUBE.COM.
      After she details her cruelty to her sister, the audience reaction is vigorous applause.
      THIS IS WHY the Russian government and most of the people HATE Jehovah's Witnesses.
      Oblivious, clueless, extreme cruelty, in the name of righteousness.
      Melody's interview @ the Regional Convention 2017 _Don't Give Up_.mp4
      .
      .
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      My wife and I are planning to see the movie  "DUNKIRK" this weekend, and I have seen "Saving Private Ryan", and "Schindler's List", all very violent war movies, and in my opinion very IMPORTANT movies to see. 
      The list of incredibly important movies could fill a notebook.
      I could probably list 10 off the top of my head .. some important for very different reasons.
      "The Notebook" comes to mind.
      Some, merely cultural icons, like the entire STAR WARS and STAR TREK franchises, etc.
      What has been your actual experience about what kinds of movies the Brotherhood actually sees ?
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Has the Society ever ruled on what happens if a man or woman abandons their spouse forever ... is the one abandoned stuck forever ?
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      SCENARIO:  You are at a packed Kingdom Hall on Memorial night, and ten minutes into the remembrance talk, six masked people with weapons enter the Kingdom Hall and begin shooting everyone they can, without any conversation.  
      You are shot in the left side of your face and most of those teeth are gone.
      Before you know what is going on twelve Brothers and Sisters have been shot, screaming and panic ensues, and there is blood and bodies and brains all over, and the shooting continues.
      Would it be fitting for a Brother  to use his handgun to return fire on the murderers to try and save his own life, or the lives of his Brothers and Sisters?
      Or, in PubSpeak ... "Would it be fitting for a Christian to keep a firearm, such as a handgun or a rifle, for protection against other humans?" ( July 2017 Watchtower )
      This raises MANY Theocratic, moral, ethical, legal, and Societial policy questions ... all of which have REAL answers. 
      What is the RIGHT thing for a responsible Christian to do?
    • By The Librarian
      Gilead Grad talk 59th class by Frederick W. Franz - Downloadable PowerPoint presentation with Audio (moved here from another page so as not to lose the audio)
      Frederick W. Franz then Vice President of the Watchtower Society and foremost scholar in JW history.
      Sept 7 1975. Location: 44-17 Greenpoint Ave, Sunnyside, NY 11104 (Thanks to @JW Insider’s comment below).
      His comments reflect his views toward forming a Governing Body at that time (which would be implemented months later anyway)

      See also:
      Presentation Transcript
      Slide 1: 
      September 7 th , Graduation day for the 59 th class of Gilead This is the Voice of Brother Nathan H. Knorr introducing brother F.W. Franz who was then Vice President of the Society and principal Bible Scholar   Slide 2: 
      “It is a privilege that is to be esteemed for anyone to give a talk to a class of missionaries attending the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead   Slide 3: 
      and it is my privilege this morning to take advantage of my first opportunity to speak to this graduating class, number 59.   Slide 4: 
      Now this class is being sent forth in collaboration with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York incorporated by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.   Slide 5: 
      Now, the question may be raised today: what right does the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society have to send missionaries out into the field?   Slide 6: 
      Or evangelizers? The American Translation renders the word evangelizer: Missionary.   Slide 7: 
      Who authorized the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania to send missionaries all around the globe?   Slide 8: 
      Now such challenging questions may be also raised with an earlier circumstance   Slide 9: 
      and that is based on the fact that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was founded by a man who became an evangelizer of world note   Slide 10: 
      one of the most imminent evangelizers of this 20 th century   Slide 11: 
      and especially attaining global fame when he made his trip around the world in the year 1912.   Slide 12: 
      That man was Charles Taze Russell of Allegheny Pennsylvania. Now, I’ve often wondered about this matter, and maybe you have too.   Slide 13: 
      Just how did Russell become an evangelizer – who made him an evangelizer?   Slide 14: 
      At the time that he lived, this professed Christian organization that was symbolized in Jesus’ parable by the dragnet   Slide 15: 
      that gathered in fish suitable and unsuitable for orthodox Jews to eat   Slide 16: 
      this professed Christian organization was still in operation and was gathering in these different qualities of symbolic fish.   Slide 17: 
      That meant that the various religious establishments of Christendom were in operation.   Slide 18: 
      For instance, there was the Anglican Church with its ruling body and the Protestant Episcopal Church with its ruling body   Slide 19: 
      there was the Methodist Church with its conference, there was also the Presbyterian Church to which Russell used to belong with its synod.   Slide 20: 
      There was also the Congregational Church which Russell joined with its central congregation, but by none of these controlling organizations of this dragnet organization was Russell made an evangelizer or a missionary.   Slide 21: 
      Well now, since Russell broke away from all these religious institutions of Christendom they didn’t recognize him and he became known as Pastor Russell   Slide 22: 
      and I remember how the clergy would raise the question: Who made him a Pastor?   Slide 23: 
      So the validity of his ministry was questioned and challenged by the clergy of this dragnet organization about which the Lord Jesus Christ spoke in the 13 th chapter of Matthew.   Slide 24: 
      So, in view of those things I often wondered now, how did Russell become what he did become, and maybe you’ve wondered about the matter too.   Slide 25: 
      So I just began to think about the 1 st Century when this Christian evangelistic work or missionary work was first started.   Slide 26: 
      Now, the word evangelizer, or evangelizers is a rare word in the Bible, it occurs only three times – twice evangelizer and once evangelizers.   Slide 27: 
      Now we remember how Jesus sent forth his twelve Apostles, and then he sent afterwards seventy disciples of his to go out preaching the good news of the Kingdom   Slide 28: 
      and these 70 disciples are generally differentiated from the 12 Apostles by being called evangelists or evangelizers.   Slide 29: 
      And so there were 70 of these evangelizers that the Lord Jesus Christ sent forth. Now the record says that he sent them forth by two’s.   Slide 30: 
      Now we’re not to imagine that by sending these 70 evangelizers – if we’re allowed to use that term – because they did preach the evangel of the good news of the Kingdom   Slide 31: 
      by sending them forth by two’s, the Lord Jesus Christ was not creating each two a committee, so that for the 70 evangelizers there were 35 committees of two.   Slide 32: 
      Well, you Missionaries, you’re being sent forth today after your graduation as missionaries…the last telegram we heard was about two being sent to Bolivia   Slide 33: 
      then there are others who are being sent, maybe four or six or eight to a different country as assignment for work.   Slide 34: 
      Now don’t you missionaries think because you are being sent forth two together or maybe four or six or maybe 8, that you are being sent forth as a committee to take over the work in the land to which you are assigned.   Slide 35: 
      No such thing. You are being sent forth as individual missionaries to cooperate together, and to cooperate with the branch of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society   Slide 36: 
      which is operating and directing the work in the land to which you are assigned to act as an evangelizer.   Slide 37: 
      So don’t get this committee idea in to your head because you are being sent out in groups to a special land.   Slide 38: 
      Now, Jesus Christ finished his course as the greatest evangelizer of all, and then time moves on, and there is a man who comes on the scene, and he is the only one who is directly called an evangelizer.   Slide 39: 
      That’s his personal title. We find it in Acts chapter 21 verse 8, and that is Philip of Caesarea.   Slide 40: 
      And when Paul visited him on his stop-over there at Caesarea, why, he was called Philip the evangelizer. He’s the only one   Slide 41: 
      Paul told Timothy in his final letter, 2 Timothy 4:5 that he should do the work of an evangelizer but Phillip is the one who is directly, and the only one thus called personally an evangelizer   Slide 42: 
      but of course we know there were other evangelizers. Now how did this man come on the scene, and who made him an evangelizer or missionary? Now that’s the point to observe.   Slide 43: 
      Well, we remember how the scripture in Ephesians 4, verse 11 tells us how the Lord Jesus Christ ascended on high and led a body of captives and how he gave gifts in the form of men.   Slide 44: 
      Verse 11 says he gave some as Apostles and some as prophets and some as evangelizers and some as shepherds and teachers.   Slide 45: 
      The Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the Congregation, He gave not only apostles, not only prophets, but also evangelizers.   Slide 46: 
      Now how did this Philip become an evangelizer of note; of special mention in the Bible? Well you know how he came on the scene.   Slide 47: 
      Trouble arose in the Jerusalem congregation which was expanding and embracing Greek speaking Jews as well as the Hebrew speaking Jews   Slide 48: 
      and there was complaint made because evidently there was prejudice against the non-Hebrew speaking Jews; against the widows who spoke the Greek language which was the universal language of the day   Slide 49: 
      but yet there was some sort of prejudice against these foreign language talkers among the disciples. They weren’t receiving their allowance of food to their satisfaction   Slide 50: 
      and the problem came up before the Apostles of Jesus Christ, and what did they do?   Slide 51: 
      Well they told the whole congregation to recommend 7 men who were really spiritual characters who they the apostles might approve over this business.   Slide 52: 
      And so there were 7 who were recommended and the first two were Stephen and also this Philip, and then others.   Slide 53: 
      And the apostles appointed them to be over this business. Well now, if you look up the McClintock and Strong’s encyclopedia of religious knowledge   Slide 54: 
      you find that the work that the Apostles assigned to these 7 men is called a semi-secular work. But the Apostles didn’t want that semi-secular work.   Slide 55: 
      They unloaded it off on to these seven men and said “you take care of that”. Well, they said “we’re going to specialize on prayers and teaching”   Slide 56: 
      Now, were these 12 Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, by unloading this responsibility for taking care of tables, were they making of themselves really figure heads in the congregation of God and of Jesus Christ?   Slide 57: 
      They certainly were not making themselves figure heads because they specialized on spiritual things. They were more active at the spiritual end of the matter than at the semi-secular end of the matter.   Slide 58: 
      So things prospered when they did that; when they rendered the things to which they had not been appointed by Jesus Christ as Apostles to take care of as his witnesses to all the congregation.   Slide 59: 
      And they specialized on preaching, and the Lord God blessed them. Now we find with regard to this Philip that he left this job of taking care of tables at Jerusalem. Did you know that?   Slide 60: 
      He left that Job, and he went down to Samaria, and when he was down there in Samaria he did a preaching work and performed many signs and wonders   Slide 61: 
      and it was because of the work that he did down there and afterwards that he became an evangelist. Now who made Philip an evangelist or evangelizer?   Slide 62: 
      Oh, you say “the Apostles ! The body of Apostles! Of course; it couldn’t be any other way”.   Slide 63: 
      But was it? We read the account; let the Bible speak for itself.   Slide 64: 
      It was because of the persecution that was stirred up by Saul of Tarsus that the record says that all the disciples; all of the members of the Jewish congregation were scattered from the Sea except the 12 apostles   Slide 65: 
      and so Philip , as one of the refugees, or the fugitives he went down to Samaria and he preached just as the Bible says all the others who were scattered went preaching and Jehovah was especially with Philip   Slide 66: 
      and he established a congregation there, and it was only later when the Apostles heard about this; what was going on down there   Slide 67: 
      that they dispatched two members of the Apostolic body to go down there and see that they had the Holy spirit of God imparted to them. And then after that what happened?   Slide 68: 
      Why, God Jehovah’s angel talks to Philip and say’s now YOU go, this is the assignment to YOU from Jehovah’s angel, you go down to the road that leads southward from Jerusalem to Gaza.   Slide 69: 
      And he went down there on that assignment from Jehovah’s angel! And then is when he had the encounter with the Ethiopian Eunuch   Slide 70: 
      and he baptized him and after the baptism, why, he was quickly caught away, or led away by Gods Spirit, and he went down there to the Philistine seacoast   Slide 71: 
      and up the coast of Caesarea where he settled down and they had four daughters, and he was there as an evangelist when the apostle Paul came on that boat trip back to the Holy land.   Slide 72: 
      So that’s what happened with Philip; how he became an evangelizer. Now these are things to note friends!   Slide 73: 
      Then something happened right after that and the Lord Jesus Christ took action, and he took DIRECT ACTION WITHOUT CONSULTING ANY MAN OR BODY OF MEN ON EARTH!   Slide 74: 
      And that’s when He , the Head of the congregation met Saul of Tarsus the persecutor there in the road leading to Damascus.   Slide 75: 
      He stopped him and He said; now this is a chosen vessel under me. I’m choosing him as the Head of the church WITHOUT CONSULTING ANY PEOPLE ON EARTH.   Slide 76: 
      And He chose Saul to be an evangelizer to carry the message not only to the Jews but also to all the Gentile nations. Well, What about Jerusalem and the body down there?   Slide 77: 
      Later on the account tells us that Barnabas took Paul, or Saul of Tarsus down to Jerusalem, but they were all afraid of him.   Slide 78: 
      And Saul of Tarsus or Paul tells us that when they went up there to Jerusalem he saw none of the Apostles , except Peter with whom he spent 15 days, and also the apostle James.   Slide 79: 
      Those are the only two! Then he went back to Tarsus and he continued on in his labors.   Slide 80: 
      Well, later on, why, Barnabas was sent down there to Antioch and he ended up – Saul brought him there, and they taught in Antioch for quite a while.   Slide 81: 
      Paul became a member of the Antioch congregation, and he was one of the prophets there in that congregation specially mentioned.   Slide 82: 
      And then, all of a sudden as he was serving there in Antioch – in Syria NOT IN ISREAEL BUT IN SYRIA   Slide 83: 
      why, God’s Spirit spoke to that congregation there in Antioch and said now, of all things you set aside – this congregation in Antioch, YOU set aside these two men   Slide 84: 
      namely Barnabas and Saul for the work for which I have commissioned them, and so the Antioch congregation did that.   Slide 85: 
      And they laid their hands upon Paul or Saul and Barnabas and sent them forth , as a number of translations read, sent em forth!   Slide 86: 
      And then they went forth by the Holy Spirit operating through the Antioch congregation and they went out on their first missionary assignment.   Slide 87: 
      So you see, the Lord Jesus Christ was acting as the Head of the congregation and taking action DIRECTLY; WITHOUT CONSULTING ANY BODY HERE ON EARTH WHAT HE COULD DO OR WHAT HE COULD NOT DO!   Slide 88: 
      And he acted in that way with regard to Saul and Barnabas, and they were both Apostles of the Antioch congregation, and so they went out to the work and had great success.   Slide 89: 
      And in the course of time they completed their first missionary tour, and where did they go? WHERE DID THEY REPORT? (To a Jerusalem-based governing body perhaps?)   Slide 90: 
      Well there’s a record, you read it for yourself in the closing verses of the 14 th Chapter of Acts. THEY WENT BACK TO ANTIOCH, to the congregation there   Slide 91: 
      and the account says, “They related things in detail to them, to this congregation that had committed them to the undeserved kindness of God for the work that they had performed”.   Slide 92: 
      So there’s where they reported! So, the record also says, now they stayed in Antioch “not a little time”. Well note what happened.   Slide 93: 
      All of a sudden something occurs and Paul and Barnabas they go up to Jerusalem. Well, what’s the matter? What brings them up to Jerusalem?   Slide 94: 
      Well, is it the body of the Apostles and the other elders of the Jerusalem congregation that have summoned them up there and said, look here!   Slide 95: 
      We have heard that you two men have gone out on a missionary tour and you’ve finished it and you haven’t come up here to Jerusalem to report to us! DO YOU KNOW WHO WE ARE? We’re the council of Jerusalem!   Slide 96: 
      Don’t you recognize the headship of the Lord Jesus Christ? If you don’t come on up here in a hurry we’re going to take disciplinary action against you!   Slide 97: 
      Is that what the account says?   Slide 98: 
      Well if they had acted that way toward Paul and Barnabas because they reported to the congregation by means of which the Holy Spirit had sent them out,   Slide 99: 
      then this council of Jerusalem of apostles and other elders of the Jewish Congregation WOULD HAVE PUT THEMSELVES ABOVE THE HEADSHIP OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!   Slide 100: 
      But that isn’t what occurred. You know what happened; how Jews came down from Jerusalem and stirred up the matter of circumcision and it troubled the congregation there in Antioch so much   Slide 101: 
      that the ANTIOCH CONGREGATION SENT PAUL AND BARNABAS UP TO JERUSALEM to have the council settle the issue, and of course being sent by the congregation of Antioch   Slide 102: 
      they had to come back and report and advise the congregation of the settlement of the question of the decision that was made by the council there at Jerusalem.   Slide 103: 
      And THEN IT WAS when they were arguing in favor of Christians from the gentiles not having to be circumcised like Jews   Slide 104: 
      it was THEN that Paul and Barnabas told what God had done by means of them in the Gentile world. And THEN it was that the council got the report.   Slide 105: 
      Then they went back to Antioch, which had sent them forth to make known the decision and the Jerusalem council, why, sent along two men Judas and Silas with them.   Slide 106: 
      And so they delivered the report from the council, and there was great rejoicing among the Gentile believers. Now time passes, and Paul and Barnabas are at Antioch.   Slide 107: 
      And what occurs now? Well, do they receive an assignment from somewhere on their next move?   Slide 108: 
      The account says that the two men, Paul and Barnabas, Paul said to him, he said, “Of all things let us go and visit the congregations that we have established”   Slide 109: 
      and they were agreed on this matter, and then the matter of accompanying them came up. Who was going to go with them? And Barnabas was in favor of Mark - young Mark.   Slide 110: 
      But Paul didn’t want him because he had left them in Pamphyl′ia in Asia Minor and had not gone along with them to the finish of the first missionary tour.   Slide 111: 
      So Paul didn’t have any confidence in Mark for the time being. And they had a great altercation, as you know and it resulted in a split   Slide 112: 
      and Barnabas took along Mark. And it proved to be a good choice because afterwards Paul appreciated now the faithfulness of Mark and said, he is a useful servant even to me.   Slide 113: 
      But what about Paul? Well, he chose Silas or Silvanus as his companion in his missionary tour.   Slide 114: 
      And here’s one thing we must note again - now this happened up in Antioch - towards the close of the 15 th chapter of Acts, it says that after Paul and Barnabas had   Slide 115: 
      been commended by the brothers of the Antioch congregation to the underserved Kindness of God that they went forth on the second missionary tour of the apostle Paul.   Slide 116: 
      So again, the Antioch congregation is being used to send out missionaries of great eminence in Bible history.   Slide 117: 
      Then later on, after completing the second missionary tour the apostle Paul finally returns to Antioch, and then Acts 18:23 tells us that after he had spent some time in Antioch in Syria, then he started out on his 3 rd missionary tour.   Slide 118: 
      And he was a man who wanted to break fresh ground; he didn’t like to build on another man’s foundation. When another man had pioneered the way as an evangelizer, but he wanted to break new ground – and that’s what he did.   Slide 119: 
      And so, as we examine this account of these two most outstanding among the missionaries recorded in Bible history, we find that they were sent off specially by the Lord Jesus Christ – the Head of the Church.   Slide 120: 
      A fact which the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has upheld and accepted ever since the society was formed.   Slide 121: 
      So we see how the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of the Church has the right to act direct without any other organizations in view no matter who we are   Slide 122: 
      He is the Head of the Church, and we can’t challenge what HE does”.
  • Forum Statistics

    61,696
    Total Topics
    114,701
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    16,513
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    pastel
    Newest Member
    pastel
    Joined




  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Anna: .... I tried to read all that stuff from the 1968 Watchtower you posted.  I REALLY did. But I concluded that the whole thing could probably be condensed to two short paragraphs, and to read it in it's entirety would probably be fatal to me, from the handful of caffeine tablets I would need to finish it.
    • My opening scriptures were Rev 5:9,10.  If you will look again at the WT’s Greek Interlinear, it states that the kings/priests will reign ON the earth.  Do you want to change that truth, Arauna?  If you could only see that a “new creation” is both heavenly and human.  They will serve God in heaven and as the early priests were commissioned to do – teach and serve the people under the direction of their High Priest, Jesus Christ..  Mal 2:7; Rev 1:5,6; 7:15  Can God’s priesthood teach the people if they remain in a spiritual state that the rest of God’s children do not have access to?  Can they say these words and be heard if they are out of contact with God’s future children?... “And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And the one who hears, let him say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty, let him come. The one who wants, let him take the water of life freely.”  Rev 22:17 Can “New Jerusalem” prepared as a bride, come down from heaven if it is to remain in heaven?  Rev 22:2 Remember, the “144,000” are the Temple, the Holy City.  They bring God’s Spirit/direction/guidance to His children.   And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with humanity, and he will take up residence with them, and they will be his people and God himself will be with them.  Rev 21:3 The dwelling of God is the Temple/House of God – 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Cor 6:19; Eph 2:20-22 So, his ability to come back to earth has now passed.  Is this what you are saying?  Where are the scriptures that support this?  I have provided scripture that show Jesus returning to the earth. And after he had said these things, while they were watching, he was taken up, and a cloud received him from their sight. 10 And as they were staring into the sky while he was departing, behold, two men in white clothing stood by them 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand there lookin] into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven like this will come back in the same way you saw him departing into heaven!” Acts 1:9-11 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “And let all the angels of God worship him.”  Heb 1:6  I am pretty amazed that Gen 28:12-17 and John 1:51 do not help you see that Jesus will be on the earth in the Kingdom.  I hope you actually read them.  A symbolic stairway in Jacob's vision is set up between heaven and earth.  The descendants of Jacob in Genesis, are “Israel”.  His descendants, the “144,000” inherit the earth.  Jesus referred to the stairway again in John, with his “angel”/messengers “ascending and descending” upon the Son of Man.   An anointed, refined and found faithful can be sealed while on the earth.  Yet even so, their obedience only to Christ must continue until he returns.  1 Cor 1:21,22; Eph 1:13; 4:30 Can you see you are creating a doctrine with no sound basis?  How do you know this?  You speak of unity among all in the organization, yet they are all individuals, both men and women.  You have even in error, designated that the organization's members are the Body of Christ.  But, when it comes the the true anointed Body of Christ you now say there will be no men or women, but clones as your GB portray them, once God's Kingdom arrives.  You are applying two sets of standards, which is hypocrisy.    Yes they do. You can see the slaves however you like, but I detect you looking through the lens of the GB who are telling all JWs lies about the anointed ones.  I see what scripture points out clearly, that the elders have usurped the role of God’s priesthood. Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; 13:6  Revelation’s “Jezebel” feeds God’s servants/slaves lies, and expects gratitude given to an organization, an idol.  Your very words speak their lies. The ancient Jezebel killed the prophets of God (1 Kings 18:13);  today’s “Jezebel” spiritually “kills” any anointed as well as their companions who see truth and reveal “her” lies.  Rev 13:11,14-17 But I have against you that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, the one who calls herself a prophetess,(Rev 13:11) and teaches and deceives my slaves to commit sexual immorality (spiritual harlotry) and to eat food sacrificed to idols.  Rev 2:20 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear, and will produce great signs and wonders in order to deceive, if possible, even the elect    
    • One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! Here authors said how some "fulfilled Bible prophecy" showed something. This would mean how WT Society knew at that time what was already fulfilled or it will be. Is this claim really correct? Because they made interpretations about human events and projected their expectations, explained them as Bible prophecies. This was common practice. Another thing, let me remind please what was explanation of "generation" in 1968?  But they knew "something" about 70., what was more important for them :)) .... and it seems how "instructions" (gave from Jesus, and not Jeruzalem GB)  showed themselves as reasonable even from human standpoint. :))
    • After today's WT study I was reminded of how much simpler and clearer we have become. There are still some speculative elements there, but overall its nothing compared to some past WT studies, and although this might be slightly off topic here (but still on topic with regard to "difficult doctrine") I would just like to post one example from 1968. (WT 68/8/15)  Either people were more patient and studious than they are now, or even back then, perhaps only a handful were able to wrap their heads around this study. I will be bold enough to say many may have just heard "end in 1975", and that's it. Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? 1, 2. (a) What has sparked special interest in the year 1975, and with what results? (b) But what questions are raised? WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam’s creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion. 2 But wait! How do we know their calculations are correct? What basis is there for saying Adam was created nearly 5,993 years ago? Does the one Book that can be implicitly trusted for its truthful historical accuracy, namely, the Inspired Word of Jehovah, the Holy Bible, give support and credence to such a conclusion? 3. Is the date for Adam’s creation as found in many copies of the Bible part of the inspired Scriptures, and do all agree on the date? 3 In the marginal references of the Protestant Authorized or King James Version, and in the footnotes of certain editions of the Catholic Douay version, the date of man’s creation is said to be 4004 B.C.E. This marginal date, however, is no part of the inspired text of the Holy Scriptures, since it was first suggested more than fifteen centuries after the last Bible writer died, and was not added to any edition of the Bible until 1701 C.E. It is an insertion based upon the conclusions of an Irish prelate, the Anglican Archbishop James Ussher (1581-1656). Ussher’s chronology was only one of the many sincere efforts made during the past centuries to determine the time of Adam’s creation. A hundred years ago when a count was taken, no less than 140 different timetables had been published by serious scholars. In such chronologies the calculations as to when Adam was created vary all the way from 3616 B.C.E. to 6174 B.C.E., with one wild guess set at 20,000 B.C.E. Such conflicting answers contained in the voluminous libraries around the world certainly tend to compound the confusion when seeking an answer to the above questions. 4. What have we learned in our previous study, and, hence, what are we now prepared to do? 4 In the previous article we learned from the Inspired Writings themselves, independent of the uninspired marginal notes of some Bibles, that the seventy years of desolation of the land of Judah began to count about October 1, 607 B.C.E. The beginning of this seventy-year period was obviously tied to its ending, that is, with the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C.E. So with 607 B.C.E. as dependably fixed on our Gregorian calendar as the absolute date of 539 B.C.E. we are prepared to move farther back in the count of time, to the dating of other important events in Bible history. For instance, the years when Saul, David and Solomon reigned successively over God’s chosen people can now be dated in terms of the present-day calendar. 5. What history-making events took place in 997 B.C.E.? 5 At the death of Solomon his kingdom was split into two parts. The southern two-tribe part, composed of Judah and Benjamin, continued to be ruled by Solomon’s descendants, and was known as the kingdom of Judah. The northern ten tribes made up the kingdom of Israel, sometimes called “Samaria” after the name of its later capital city, and were ruled over by Jeroboam and his successors. By our applying the prophetic time period of 390 years found in Ezekiel 4:1-9 with regard to Jerusalem’s destruction the death of Solomon is found to be in the year 997 B.C.E. This was 390 years before the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. ISRAEL’S ERRORS CARRIED 390 YEARS 6, 7. What time periods are referred to in Ezekiel 4:1-9? 6 Notice what is said on this matter by the prophet Ezekiel: 7 “And you, O son of man, take for yourself a brick, and you must put it before you, and engrave upon it a city, even Jerusalem. And you must lay siege against it . . . It is a sign to the house of Israel. And as for you, lie upon your left side, and you must lay the error of the house of Israel upon it. For the number of the days that you will lie upon it you will carry their error. And I myself must give to you the years of their error to the number of three hundred and ninety days, and you must carry the error of the house of Israel. And you must complete them. And you must lie upon your right side in the second case, and you must carry the error of the house of Judah forty days. A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you. . . . And as for you, take for yourself wheat and barley and broad beans and lentils and millet and spelt, and you must put them in one utensil and make them into bread for you, for the number of the days that you are lying upon your side; three hundred and ninety days you will eat it.”—Ezek. 4:1-9. 8. When did the carrying of the “error” of the southern kingdom end? 8 This chapter 4 of Ezekiel, was not recounting past historical events but was prophecy of future events. It was telling of the time in the future when the glorious city of Jerusalem would be besieged and its inhabitants taken captive, all of which occurred in 607 B.C.E. So the forty years spoken of in the case of Judah ended in that year. The “error” of the northern kingdom, said to be carried for 390 years, was nearly tenfold greater when compared with the error of Judah carried for 40 years. When, then, did these 390 years end? 9. What indicates the “error” of the northern kingdom also ended in 607 B.C.E.? 9 They were not terminated in 740 B.C.E., when Samaria was destroyed, for the simple fact that Ezekiel enacted this prophetic drama sometime after “the fifth year of the exile of King Jehoiachin,” which would make the termination not earlier than 613 B.C.E., that is, 127 years after the destruction of Samaria by Assyria. (Ezek. 1:2) Since this whole prophetic drama plainly pointed forward to the destruction of Jerusalem, and since both the house of Israel and the house of Judah were in reality one inseparable covenant-bound people, the remnant of whom would not be a divided people upon their return from exile, there is only one reasonable conclusion, namely, the errors of both houses ran concurrently and terminated at the same time in 607 B.C.E. In this way the 70 years of desolation of the land of Judah ended 70 years after the termination of carrying the error of both houses, so that thus a remnant of both houses could return to the site of Jerusalem. 10. So when did the “error” of Israel begin? 10 If the “error of the house of Israel” ended in 607, its beginning, 390 years prior thereto, was in 997 B.C.E. It began the year that King Solomon died and Jeroboam committed error, yes, great error, in that Jeroboam, whose domain was ripped off from the house of David, “proceeded to part Israel from following Jehovah,” causing them “to sin with a great sin.”—2 Ki. 17:21. DATE OF EXODUS, 1513 B.C.E. 11, 12. What other event in man’s history are we now prepared to date, and with the aid of what key text? 11 Looking back into the distant past we see another milestone in man’s history, the never-to-be-forgotten exodus of the Israelites from Egyptian slavery, under the leadership of Moses. Were it not for Jehovah’s faithful Word the Bible, it would be impossible to locate this great event accurately on the calendar, for Egyptian hieroglyphics are conspicuously silent concerning the humiliating defeat handed that first world power by Jehovah. But with the Bible’s chronology, how relatively simple it is to date that memorable event! 12 At 1 Kings 6:1 we read: “And it came about in the four hundred and eightieth year after the sons of Israel came out from the land of Egypt, in the fourth year, in the month of Ziv, that is, the second month, after Solomon became king over Israel, that he proceeded to build the house to Jehovah.” 13, 14. (a) On the Gregorian calendar, in what year did Solomon begin to reign? (b) In what year did he begin the building of the temple? 13 With this information one has only to determine what calendar year Solomon began building the temple, and it is then an easy matter to figure when Pharaoh’s army was destroyed in the Red Sea. 14 “And the days that Solomon had reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel were forty years.” (1 Ki. 11:42) This means that his last full regnal year ended in the spring of 997 B.C.E.* Adding 40 to 997 gives 1037 B.C.E., the year that Solomon began his peaceful reign. He did not begin the temple building, as the account says, until the second month of the fourth year of his reign, which means he had ruled a full three years and one month. Thus subtracting 3 years from 1037 one gets 1034 B.C.E., the year that the building work began. The time of the year was the second month Ziv, that is, April-May. This, the Bible says, was “in the four hundred and eightieth year” after the Israelites left Egypt. 15. (a) Explain the difference between a cardinal and an ordinal number. (b) So when did the Israelites leave Egypt? 15 Anytime we put a “th” on the end of a number, for instance on the number 10, saying 10th, the number is changed from a cardinal to an ordinal number. When one speaks about playing baseball in the tenth inning of the game, it means that nine full innings have already been played, but only part of the tenth; ten innings are not yet completed. Likewise, when the Bible uses an ordinal number, saying that the building of the temple began in the 480th year after the Israelites left Egypt, and when that particular year on the calendar is known to be 1034 B.C.E., then we add 479 full years (not 480) to 1034 and arrive at the date 1513 B.C.E., the year of the Exodus. It too was springtime, Passover time, the 14th day of the month Nisan. HOW LONG SINCE THE FLOOD? 16. How far back in history have we now penetrated, and what are the prospects of probing even deeper? 16 Already with the help supplied by the Bible we have accurately measured back from the spring of this year 1968 C.E. to the spring of 1513 B.C.E., a total of 3,480 years. With the continued faithful memory and accurate historical record of Jehovah’s Holy Word we can penetrate even deeper into the past, back to the flood of Noah’s day. 17. In recounting Israel’s experiences, to what events and to what time period does Stephen refer? 17 Stephen, the first martyred footstep follower of Jesus Christ, referred to what Jehovah said would befall Abraham’s offspring. “Moreover, God spoke to this effect, that his seed would be alien residents in a foreign land and the people would enslave them and afflict them for four hundred years.” (Acts 7:6; Gen. 15:13) Stephen here mentions three of Israel’s past experiences: As alien residents in a foreign land, as people in slavery, and as people afflicted for four hundred years. 18. What argues against the conclusion that these events were separate experiences following one another in consecutive order? 18 It would be a mistake to assume that all three of these experiences were of equal duration, or that they were separate individual experiences that followed one another in consecutive order. It was long after their entrance into Egypt as aliens that they were enslaved, more than 70 years later, and sometime after the death of Joseph. Rather, Stephen was saying that within the same 400-year period in which they were afflicted, they were also enslaved and were also alien residents. 19. How do we know the Israelites were “aliens” before entering Egypt? 19 Please note that, when Stephen said they were “alien residents in a foreign land . . . for four hundred years,” he did not say and he did not mean to imply that they were not alien residents before entering Egypt. So it is a mistake to insist that this text proves the Israelites were in Egypt for four hundred years. It is true that, upon entering Egypt and being presented before Pharaoh for the first time, Joseph’s brothers said: “We have come to reside as aliens in the land.” But they did not say nor did they mean that up until then they had not been alien residents, for on the same occasion their father Jacob, when asked by Pharaoh how old he was, declared: “The days of the years of my alien residences are a hundred and thirty years.” And not only had Jacob spent his whole lifetime as an alien resident before coming to Egypt, but he told Pharaoh that his forefathers before him also had been alien residents.—Gen. 47:4-9. 20. When did these 400 years end, and when did they begin? 20 Since the affliction of Israel ended in 1513 B.C.E., it must have begun in 1913, 400 years earlier. That year would correspond to the time that Isaac was afflicted by Ishmael “poking fun” at him on the day that Isaac was weaned. At the time, Isaac was five years old, and this was long before the Israelites entered Egypt.—Gen. 21:8, 9. 21, 22. Were the Israelites 430 years in Egypt exclusively, and how do certain ancient manuscripts shed light on this point? 21 Well, then, how long were the Israelites down in Egypt as alien residents? Exodus 12:40, 41 says: “And the dwelling of the sons of Israel, who had dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years. And it came about at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, it even came about on this very day that all the armies of Jehovah went out of the land of Egypt.” 22 Here Ex 12 verse 40 in the Septuagint reads: “But the dwelling of the sons of Israel which they [and their fathers, Alexandrine MS] dwelt in the land of Egypt AND IN THE LAND OF CANAAN [was] four hundred and thirty years long.” The Samaritan Pentateuch reads: “IN THE LAND OF CANAAN and in the land of Egypt.” Thus both of these versions, which are based on Hebrew texts older than the Masoretic, include the words “in the land of Canaan” together with the word “Egypt.” 23. (a) So how long were the Israelites actually in Egypt, and how does Paul confirm this? (b) Explain the difference between the 400 and the 430 years mentioned in the Scriptures. 23 From the time that Abraham entered Canaan until Isaac’s birth was 25 years;* from that time until Jacob’s birth, 60 more years; and after that it was another 130 years before Jacob entered Egypt. All together this makes a total of 215 years, exactly half of the 430 years, spent in Canaan before moving in to Egypt. (Gen. 12:4; 21:5; 25:26; 47:9) The apostle Paul, under inspiration, also confirms that from the making of the Abrahamic covenant at the time the patriarch moved into Canaan, it was 430 years down to the institution of the Law covenant.—Gal. 3:17. 24, 25. The Flood began in what calendar year, and how long was this before Abraham entered Canaan? 24 By adding this 430 years to the 1513 it puts us back to 1943 B.C.E., the time when Abraham first entered Canaan following the death of his father Terah in Haran, Mesopotamia. It is now only a matter of adding up the years of a few generations to date the Flood correctly. The figures are given in Genesis, chapters 11 and 12, and may be summarized as follows: From start of Flood To Arpachshad’s birth (Gen. 11:10) 2 years To birth of Shelah (11:12) 35 “ To birth of Eber (11:14) 30 “ To birth of Peleg (11:26) 34 “ To birth of Reu (11:18) 30 “ To birth of Serug (11:20) 32 “ To birth of Nahor (11:22) 30 “ To birth of Terah (11:24) 29 “ To death of Terah in Haran, and Abram’s departure to Canaan at age of 75 (11:32; 12:4) 205 “ Total 427 years 25 Adding these 427 years to the year 1943 B.C.E. dates the beginning of the Deluge at 2370 B.C.E., 4,337 years ago. 6,000 YEARS FROM ADAM’S CREATION 26, 27. (a) How long before the Flood was Adam created? In what year? (b) What indicates that Adam was created in the fall of the year? 26 In a similar manner it is only necessary to add up the following years involving ten pre-Flood generations to get the date of Adam’s creation, namely: From Adam’s creation To birth of Seth (Gen. 5:3) 130 years To birth of Enosh (5:6) 105 “ To birth of Kenan (5:9) 90 “ To birth of Mahalalel (5:12) 70 “ To birth of Jared (5:15) 65 “ To birth of Enoch (5:18) 162 “ To birth of Methuselah (5:21) 65 “ To birth of Lamech (5:25) 187 “ To birth of Noah (5:28, 29) 182 “ To beginning of Flood (7:6) 600 “ Total 1,656 years 27 Adding this figure 1,656 to 2,370 gives 4026 B.C.E., the Gregorian calendar year in which Adam was created. Since man naturally began to count time with his own beginning, and since man’s most ancient calendars started each year in the autumn, it is reasonable to assume that the first man Adam was created in the fall of the year. 28. How does this chronology differ from Ussher’s in regard to Adam’s creation? 28 Thus, through a careful independent study by dedicated Bible scholars who have pursued the subject for a number of years, and who have not blindly followed some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, we have arrived at a date for Adam’s creation that is 22 years more distant in the past than Ussher’s figure. This means time is running out two decades sooner than traditional chronology anticipates. 29. Why be concerned with the date of Adam’s creation? 29 After much of the mathematics and genealogies, really, of what benefit is this information to us today? Is it not all dead history, as uninteresting and profitless as walking through a cemetery copying old dates off tombstones? After all, why should we be any more interested in the date of Adam’s creation than in the birth of King Tut? Well, for one thing, if 4,026 is added to 1,968 (allowing for the lack of a zero year between C.E. and B.C.E.) one gets a total of 5,993 years, come this autumn, since Adam’s creation. That means, in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now (and not in 1997 as would be the case if Ussher’s figures were correct), it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind! ADAM CREATED AT CLOSE OF “SIXTH DAY” 30. What may occur before 1975, but what attitude should we take? 30 Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. 31. What do the first two chapters of Genesis disclose? 31 In regard to Adam’s creation it is good to read carefully what the Bible says. Moses in compiling the book of Genesis referred to written records or “histories” that predated the Flood. The first of these begins with Genesis 1:1 and ends at Genesis 2:4 with the words, “This is the history of the heavens and the earth . . . ” The second historical document begins with Genesis 2:5 and ends with Ge verse two of chapter five. Hence we have two separate accounts of creation from slightly different points of view. In the second of these accounts, in Genesis 2:19, the original Hebrew verb translated “was forming” is in the progressive imperfect form. This does not mean that the animals and birds were created after Adam was created. Genesis 1:20-28 shows it does not mean that. So, in order to avoid contradiction between Ge chapter one and chapter two, Genesis 2:19, 20 must be only a parenthetical remark thrown in to explain the need for creating a “helper” for man. So the progressive Hebrew verb form could also be rendered as “had been forming.”—See Rotherham’s translation (Ro), also Leeser’s (Le). 32. What indicates the sixth creative day did not end immediately with Adam’s creation? 32 These two creation accounts in the book of Genesis, though differing slightly in the treatment of the material, are in perfect agreement with each other on all points, including the fact that Eve was created after Adam. So not until after this event did the sixth creative day come to an end. Exactly how soon after Adam’s creation is not disclosed. “After that [Adam and Eve’s creation] God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.” (Gen. 1:31) After the sixth creative day ends, the seventh one begins. 33. (a) How do we know the end of the sixth creative day came very soon after Adam’s creation? (b) How does Genesis 1:31 prove the sixth day ended before Adam and Eve sinned? 33 This time between Adam’s creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God’s leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve’s creation was quickly accomplished, ‘while Adam was sleeping.’ (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam’s creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time. The pronouncement at the end of the sixth day, “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good,” proves that the beginning of the great seventh day of the creative week did not wait until after Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from the Garden of Eden. 1975! . . . AND FAR BEYOND! 34. What has brought about a better understanding of Bible chronology? 34 Bible chronology is an interesting study by which historic events are placed in their order of occurrence along the stream of time. The Watch Tower Society over the years has endeavored to keep its associates abreast with the latest scholarship that proves consistent with historic and prophetic events recorded in the Scriptures. Major problems in sacred chronology have been straightened out either due to fulfillment of Bible prophecies or by reason of archaeological discoveries or because better Bible translations convey more clearly the records of the original languages. However, several knotty problems of chronology of a minor nature are not yet resolved. For example, at the time of the exodus from Egypt when Jehovah changed the beginning of the year from autumn time on the secular calendar to spring time on the sacred calendar, was there, in the Jewish calendar, a loss or a gain of six months?—Ex. 12:1, 2. 35. Why is this no time for indifference and complacency? 35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”! 36. What helpful example did the apostles leave us in this regard? 36 Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active? The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975. All they could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them. (1 Pet. 4:7) Hence, there was a ring of alarm and a cry of urgency in all their writings. (Acts 20:20; 2 Tim. 4:2) And rightly so. If they had delayed or dillydallied and had been complacent with the idea the end was some thousands of years off they would never have finished running the race set before them. No, they ran hard and they ran fast, and they won! It was a life or death matter with them.—1 Cor. 9:24; 2 Tim. 4:7; Heb. 12:1. 37. So what will you be doing between now and 1975? And beyond that, what? 37 So too with Jehovah’s faithful witnesses in this latter half of the twentieth century. They have the true Christian point of view. Their strenuous evangelistic activity is not something peculiar to this present decade. They have not dedicated their lives to serve Jehovah only until 1975. Christians have been running this way ever since Christ Jesus blazed the trail and commanded his disciples, “Follow me!” So keep this same mental attitude in you that was in Christ Jesus. Let nothing slow you down or cause you to tire and give out. Those who will flee Babylon the Great and this Satanic system of things are now running for their lives, headed for God’s kingdom, and they will not stop at 1975. O no! They will keep on in this glorious way that leads to everlasting life, praising and serving Jehovah for ever and ever!     You are referring to Luke 10:17,18 "Then the 70 returned with joy, saying: “Lord, even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name.” At that he said to them: “I see Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven".  But one of the cross references to Satan falling is Revelation 12:7-9   "And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8  but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9  So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him". I wonder why, since as you say we are to understand that it referred to the power Satan had over Jesus and his disciples. In a way no, but I think we are meant to see that the world in general was brought into more of a turmoil than it had been before, with the world warring on a worldwide scale, with lethal weapons capable of total world destruction I am thinking rather than using the word "defeat" (because Satan won't be defeated until after the 1000 years) the purpose of the battle in heaven in 1914 was to cleanse the heavens of his evil presence. Then during Armageddon it will be to bind him and put him in "jail" for a period of time. So no, I don't think there are several stages of defeat.   We are to believe that what changed after the battle in 1914 was the world in general.   Yes indeed. But how fatal would it really be if we ignored Jesus words about not knowing the day or hour?
    • The music video for Lionel Richie's "Hello" directed by Bob Giraldi, attracts attention as it tells the story of a music teacher (played by Lionel Richie) who falls in love with his blind student. "Hello is it me you're looking for?" is quite an insensitive pick up line to use on a blind woman.   Ah, the 80s, when people thought teachers stalking their disabled students was romantic...    
    • Quote @b4ucuhear " For example, we realized that the “superior authorities” mentioned in Romans 13:1 are, not Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, but the political rulers " BUT the original teaching by the Bible Students was that the 'superior authorities' was the political rulers. It was fully understood in the first place. So, why was false reasoning used to give false teaching ? Obviously no Holy Spirit involved there. So you cannot say that it was new light or better understanding when it was originally known anyway 
  • Popular Now

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online (See full list)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.